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PoliGAF 2016 |OT| Ask us about our performance with Latinos in Nevada

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B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Elaugaufein said:
The last time a party held the presidency for 4 consecutive of terms was before presidential term limits (it ended in 1952). So if your platform is realism that's not a great place to start. On the other hand it's something you need to do so I guess you have to approach it as possible.
Click to expand...

The thing is if the Dems don't win 2020 then they won't be able to take back Congress for another decade, so they've pretty much got to play the hand they've been dealt and hope for the best. Winning 2020 is vitally important going forward, if it doesn't happen then we'll wind up with a GOP held Congress (even further gerrymandered than it is) and a GOP president. From there say bye-bye to a lot of important shit.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Aaron said:
You know, the debate is on YouTube. You can rewatch it instead of just making shit up. This is like saying Clinton's response to every question was Obama, Obama, and more Obama. Did she mention she was going to continue Obama's policies? Because she's going to totally Obama that Obama.

Distilling candidates down like this is petty and small-minded. Leave that to the Republicans.
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Problem is I am serious.
WOODRUFF: Senator Sanders, to you first. Coming off the results in Iowa and New Hampshire, there are many voters who are taking a closer look at you, and your ideas, and they're asking how big a role do you foresee for the federal government? It's already spending 21% of the entire U.S. economy. How much larger would government be in the lives of Americans under a Sanders presidency?

SANDERS: Well, to put that in a context, Judy, I think we have to understand that in the last 30 years in this country there has been a massive transfer of wealth going from the hands of working families into the top one-tenth of 1% whose percentage of wealth has doubled. In other words, the very rich are getting richer, almost everybody is going -- getting poorer.

What I believe is the United States, in fact, should join the rest of the industrialized world and guarantee healthcare to all people. Our Medicare for all single-payer proposal will save the average middle class family $5,000 a year.

I do believe that in the year 2016 we have to look in terms of public education as colleges as part of public education making public colleges and universities tuition free. I believe that when real unemployment is close to 10%, and when our infrastructure, our roads, our bridges, our water systems, Flint, Michigan comes to mind. Our waste water plants, our rail, our airports, in many places are disintegrating.

Yeah, we can create 13 million jobs by rebuilding our infrastructure at a cost of a trillion dollars.
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WOODRUFF: But, my question is how big would government be? Would there be any limit on the size of the role of government...

SANDERS: ... Of course there will be a limit, but when today you have massive levels of income and wealth inequality, when the middle class is disappearing, you have the highest rate of child poverty of almost any major country on Earth. Yes, in my view, the government of a democratic society has a moral responsibility to play a vital role in making sure all of our people have a decent standard of living.
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And a clunky segue into his talking points while talking about incarceration
SANDERS: Well, I think, Judy, what has to be appreciated is that, as a result of the disastrous and illegal behavior on Wall Street, millions of lives were hurt. People lost their jobs, their homes, their life savings. Turns out that the African-American community and the Latino community were hit especially hard. As I understand it, the African-American community lost half of their wealth as a result of the Wall Street collapse.

So when you have childhood African-American poverty rates of 35 percent, when you have youth unemployment at 51 percent, when you have unbelievable rates of incarceration -- which, by the way, leaves the children back home without a dad or even a mother -- clearly, we are looking at institutional racism. We are looking at an economy in which the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
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As I was saying, "millionaires and billionaires" standard stump responses. I wish Christie was a democrat so he would rip Sanders' circuitry out like he did Marco's. He has nothing. No numbers, no facts on how to pay for his programs, no realistic plans and zero accountability. He is running wild with his fantasy and selling it to the voters. People say Clinton is dishonest. I say that Sanders is the dishonest one here. Promising voters the moon and unicorns in exchange for their votes and publicity. At least Clinton does not lie about what's achievable.
 
B

Basileus777

Member
B-Dubs said:
The thing is if the Dems don't win 2020 then they won't be able to take back Congress for another decade, so they've pretty much got to play the hand they've been dealt and hope for the best. Winning 2020 is vitally important going forward, if it doesn't happen then we'll wind up with a GOP held Congress (even further gerrymandered than it is) and a GOP president. From there say bye-bye to a lot of important shit.
Click to expand...

It's happening in a Presidential election year, so even if the Republicans take the White House, Democrats should do better in local elections than in 2010. Well unless incumbent Hillary gets crushed.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
sc0la said:
Let's be establishment here, Hillary is part of the realistic Bernie is fighting against.
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Brah, I'm establishment every damn day.

I just saw her closing statement.

tumblr_m1eeedzX4F1qbzqexo1_500.gif


Edit: Screw it. I'm in for another $100 to her.
 
E

East Lake

Member
adam387 said:
Uh...yes, yes I can. Unless Bernie manages to sweep people into power and overthrow the entire Democratic leadership then his single payer plan is dead on arrival. There is not a single sitting Democratic senator who has endorsed him. There are only a handful from the House. He has no political capital to exploit to use the bully pulpit effectively. Having a majority is not enough. You have to beat them into voting the way you want them. I don't think Bernie can do that without the support of the Speaker and the Whip, We can argue that neither plan are realistic under a GOP controlled Congress, but both plans are not equally realistic if we control both houses.

For example, Hillary and Bernie are both proposing plans to drastically reduce the cost of going to college. Both plans can only pass if we control Congress. However, Hillary's is more realistic because it doesn't magically require billions of dollars from each state.

The reason I said the public option has more support is that it did pass the House once already. We lost in the Senate, though. Couldn't get Joe Lieberman to shut the fuck up.
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You're talking about what theoretical political capital people might have under a Bernie house and senate. You might think you know but it's basically fantasy, as are the rest of the speculative judgments.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
I can't believe this fucking fuck fucker might be American Hitler:

Ca--jhkWEAATVLr.jpg


Hitler and Mussolini had fucking presence and didn't look like a D-tier actor posing in their first take in a "look serious!" scene. American deserves better from its fascist candidates. Deker Zoolander would do a better job looking like a real person.

Also, Trump's rallies seem to be massive and soldout again...
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
I can't believe this fucking fuck fucker might be American Hitler:

Ca--jhkWEAATVLr.jpg


Hitler and Mussolini had fucking presence and didn't look like a D-tier actor posing in their first take in a "look serious!" scene. American deserves better from its fascist candidates. Deker Zoolander would do a better job looking like a real person.

Also, Trump's rallies seem to be massive and soldout again...
Click to expand...

He's exactly what we deserve.
 
J

JesseEwiak

Member
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Hitler and Mussolini had fucking presence and didn't look like a D-tier actor posing in their first take in a "look serious!" scene. American deserves better from its fascist candidates. Deker Zoolander would do a better job looking like a real person.

Also, Trump's rallies seem to be massive and soldout again...
Click to expand...

To steal and rework a line, Donald Trump is a stupid person's idea of what a rich person should be.
 
E

Elaugaufein

Member
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
I can't believe this fucking fuck fucker might be American Hitler:

Ca--jhkWEAATVLr.jpg


Hitler and Mussolini had fucking presence and didn't look like a D-tier actor posing in their first take in a "look serious!" scene. American deserves better from its fascist candidates. Deker Zoolander would do a better job looking like a real person.

Also, Trump's rallies seem to be massive and soldout again...
Click to expand...

Try looking at it as American facism being exceptional.
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
So, this is apparently the riposte on the primarying attack:
Jeff Weaver: "If Secretary Clinton had her way there would be no President Barack Obama."

Because she'd have murdered him by now.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Public option could get passed through reconciliation bee tee dubs. You don't need sixty votes necessarily.

To be honest I wonder if it even had 50 in 2010. Let's see - Nelson, Pryor and Lincoln all voted against the reconciliation bill to begin with, so they're out. Lieberman definitely would have, he's the reason it was killed to begin with. Would Landrieu, McCaskill, Tester, Baucus, Conrad, Johnson have stuck their necks out for it? I'm not so sure.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Aaron Strife said:
Public option could get passed through reconciliation bee tee dubs. You don't need sixty votes necessarily.
Click to expand...

Oh shit. For real? Damn, that's just a simple majority. We could potentially swing that in the Senate this cycle, not likely I know, but the House is, quite sadly, a different story.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
B-Dubs said:
Oh shit. For real? Damn, that's just a simple majority. We could potentially swing that in the Senate this cycle, not likely I know, but the House is, quite sadly, a different story.
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If Democrats actually won the House this year I think they'd have a pretty padded Senate majority that might be able to pass it.

The House seems like it would be the bigger obstacle at that point, the Dem caucus would probably be too small to have 218 reliably progressive votes. Path to the majority goes through many Romney districts, you'd be talking about winning Mia Love's seat and shit. There are still a handful of Democrats in the House who have voted for repeal of Obamacare.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Predictwise odds:

Trump: 44%
Rubio: 24%
Cruz: 18%
Jeb: 12%

How is Cruz that low?
Click to expand...

His support is very limited in the party and the entire establishment hates him with the fury of two supermassive black holes crashing into each other and exploding with more energy than the rest of the universe can create combined, only to be detected by a bunch of scientists with lasers in the US a hundred billion years later across the universe.

Aaron Strife said:
If Democrats actually won the House this year I think they'd have a pretty padded Senate majority that might be able to pass it.

The House seems like it would be the bigger obstacle at that point, the Dem caucus would probably be too small to have 218 reliably progressive votes. Path to the majority goes through many Romney districts, you'd be talking about winning Mia Love's seat and shit. There are still a handful of Democrats in the House who have voted for repeal of Obamacare.
Click to expand...

Yea, it won't happen but we can always dream.
 
E

Elaugaufein

Member
Aaron Strife said:
Public option could get passed through reconciliation bee tee dubs. You don't need sixty votes necessarily.

To be honest I wonder if it even had 50 in 2010. Let's see - Nelson, Pryor and Lincoln all voted against the reconciliation bill to begin with, so they're out. Lieberman definitely would have, he's the reason it was killed to begin with. Would Landrieu, McCaskill, Tester, Baucus, Conrad, Johnson have stuck their necks out for it? I'm not so sure.
Click to expand...

You need control of the house to do reconciliation and that seems harder than 60 Senate voted in the current landscape by a rough eyeball.
 
B

Brawndo Addict

Banned
The difference between Hillary's constant Obama answers and Sander's constant Wall Street answers is that Hillary always sounds like she's pandering but Bernie always sounds like he believes it. What's more appealing? That depends, do you prefer the politician who you know is playing the game or the politician who actually believes in the miracle cure?
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
adam387 said:
:(

I forgot she was a judge that week.

Would it be in poor taste for me to mention how absolutely shitty all of Dita's wigs are/were? Seriously, gurl. You're gay. How you gonna put that shit on your head and not be embarrassed!?
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The thirst of one's wig has always been rated on a scale of Sahara Desert to Dida Ritz.
 
S

Snowman Prophet of Doom

Member
Cruz is not THAT far off from the Republican party line. Is it really just that he's a preening, arrogant asshole that makes everybody hate him that much, such that that even Donald Trump seems like a better option? Who's his televisual or cinematic cognate?
 
R

Retromelon

Member
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
Cruz is not THAT far off from the Republican party line. Is it really just that he's a preening, arrogant asshole that makes everybody hate him that much, such that that even Donald Trump seems like a better option? Who's his televisual or cinematic cognate?
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He doesnt take orders or play ball, constantly bashes the party leadership, that sort of thing.
 
O

OrangeGrayBlue

Member
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
Cruz is not THAT far off from the Republican party line. Is it really just that he's a preening, arrogant asshole that makes everybody hate him that much, such that that even Donald Trump seems like a better option? Who's his televisual or cinematic cognate?
Click to expand...

I think the main issue is that he's the only one actually drinking the kool-aid he's serving and that's pretty terrifying even to repubs. The comparisons to McCarthy are pretty spot on I think.
 
Futurematic

Futurematic

Member
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
Cruz is not THAT far off from the Republican party line. Is it really just that he's a preening, arrogant asshole that makes everybody hate him that much, such that that even Donald Trump seems like a better option? Who's his televisual or cinematic cognate?
Click to expand...

If everyone didn't hate him within 5 minutes of meeting him he'd be beating Trump. His ideology is perfectly acceptable to Republicans, it's just that everyone hates him on a strongly personal level.

Cruz's roommate in college said:
“Getting emails blaming me for not smothering Ted Cruz in his sleep in 1988. What kind of monster do you think I am? A really prescient one?”
Click to expand...
 
E

Elaugaufein

Member
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
Cruz is not THAT far off from the Republican party line. Is it really just that he's a preening, arrogant asshole that makes everybody hate him that much, such that that even Donald Trump seems like a better option? Who's his televisual or cinematic cognate?
Click to expand...

Cruz isn't that far off the party line but he's willing to screw up the legislative process to make it look like he's the only one being faithful to the party. Imagine if Sanders actively spent legislative juice blocking Democratic proposals to make himself look like the only true progressive. People are howling that he's doing it in a Democratic primary where he's running as the leftmost candidate where its actual effects are relatively low (and its a standard tactic).
 
C

Cerium

Member
Elaugaufein said:
Cruz isn't that far off the party line but he's willing to screw up the legislative process to make it look like he's the only one being faithful to the party. Imagine if Sanders actively spent legislative juice blocking Democratic proposals to make himself look like the only true progressive. People are howling that he's doing it in a Democratic primary where he's running as the leftmost candidate where its actual effects are relatively low (and its a standard tactic).
Click to expand...

After all of this is over, Sanders will still be able to talk to his colleagues in the Senate.

Cruz will sit by himself in the cafeteria.
 
K

Kyosaiga

Banned
Hillary should just make an ad with audio of him saying Obama should be primaried. Sanders would be buried within a week. He really dig his own grave
 
D

disastermouse

Banned
Kyosaiga said:
Hillary should just make an ad with audio of him saying Obama should be primaried. Sanders would be buried within a week. He really dig his own grave
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"It's difficult to be critical of your friends - we all know that, we've all been there, it's not easy. But the fact of the matter is that you have to look beyond loyalty to your friends and point out where they're making mistakes. Hillary Clinton is very loyal, perhaps to a fault. She maybe didn't criticize President Obama when it might have been good to do so. Wall Street is lucky to have such a loyal friend averse to judgement. The American people, however, need someone that they can trust to be frank, even with friends."

- Imaginary Bernie Sanders
 
K

Kyosaiga

Banned
disastermouse said:
"It's difficult to be critical of your friends - we all know that, we've all been there, it's not easy. But the fact of the matter is that you have to look beyond loyalty to your friends and point out where they're making mistakes. Hillary Clinton is very loyal, perhaps to a fault. She maybe didn't criticize President Obama when it might have been good to do so. Wall Street is lucky to have such a loyal friend averse to judgement. The American people, however, need someone that they can trust to be frank, even with friends."

- Imaginary Bernie Sanders
Click to expand...
Disagreeing with Obama is fine even admirable.

Asking for him to get primaried is just plain old fucking stupid
 
A

adamsappel

Member
adam387 said:
Brah, I'm establishment every damn day.

I just saw her closing statement.

Edit: Screw it. I'm in for another $100 to her.
Click to expand...

Didn't you just get a job after being unemployed for some time? Hillary Clinton has plenty of money for her campaign. Save some for yourself.
 
T

titiklabingapat

Member
I must say, reading from today's development of Sanders attacking Obama and Hillary hitting back, the Democrats are starting to sound like Democrats of old: bickering and criticizing each other on what should be an election where they have an advantage. This has always been the problem with a big tent party. Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, etc.

It would be disastrous if the weren't for the GOP race being in a worse state. I guess I'm just a little fearful that the Republican base will start coalescing and come home to roost once they know who the nominee is since they are usually pretty good at being in lockstep with each other.
 
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