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PoliGAF 2016 |OT| Ask us about our performance with Latinos in Nevada

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D

danm999

Member
disastermouse said:
"It's difficult to be critical of your friends - we all know that, we've all been there, it's not easy. But the fact of the matter is that you have to look beyond loyalty to your friends and point out where they're making mistakes. Hillary Clinton is very loyal, perhaps to a fault. She maybe didn't criticize President Obama when it might have been good to do so. Wall Street is lucky to have such a loyal friend averse to judgement. The American people, however, need someone that they can trust to be frank, even with friends."

- Imaginary Bernie Sanders
Click to expand...

Well yeah cause the real Sanders would never say something so politically suicidal.
 
C

Cipherr

Member
titiklabingapat said:
I must say, reading from today's development of Sanders attacking Obama and Hillary hitting back, the Democrats are starting to sound like Democrats of old: bickering and criticizing each other on what should be an election where they have an advantage. This has always been the problem with a big tent party. Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, etc.

It would be disastrous if the weren't for the GOP race being in a worse state. I guess I'm just a little fearful that the Republican base will start coalescing and come home to roost once they know who the nominee is since they are usually pretty good at being in lockstep with each other.
Click to expand...

Man I think you are massively overreacting. It's a debate leading up to the GE. Its supposed to put the contenders against one another. This is COMPLETELY normal. Its really a huge overreaction IMO to look at this tame back and forth between these two mildly separated sides and declare it an emergency.

The democratic party will gel and move forward with consistency every bit as much as you fear the republicans will. We just haven't reached S-Tuesday yet.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
Some billionaire fanfiction I was reading somewhere:

-Trump and Sanders win the nomination.
-Bloomberg enters race.
-Bloomberg only does well enough to win enough electoral votes such that neither Trump or Bernie gets 270 EV.
-There are enough House Republicans that fucking hate Trump that they work with the House Democrats to elect Bloomberg.
-Bloomberg becomes president after getting 20% of the vote and steals the election from the plucky Socialist who beat two billionaires in presidential voting.

If this happened, Bernie would literally never stop talking about the billionaires.
 
A

Armaros

Member
Cipherr said:
Man I think you are massively overreacting. It's a debate leading up to the GE. Its supposed to put the contenders against one another. This is COMPLETELY normal. Its really a huge overreaction IMO to look at this tame back and forth between these two mildly separated sides and declare it an emergency.

The democratic party will gel and move forward with consistency every bit as much as you fear the republicans will. We just haven't reached S-Tuesday yet.
Click to expand...

2008 completely forgotten.
 
V

vicissitudes

Banned
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Some billionaire fanfiction I was reading somewhere:

-Trump and Sanders win the nomination.
-Bloomberg enters race.
-Bloomberg only does well enough to win enough electoral votes such that neither Trump or Bernie gets 270 EV.
-There are enough House Republicans that fucking hate Trump that they work with the House Democrats to elect Bloomberg.
-Bloomberg becomes president after getting 20% of the vote and steals the election from the plucky Socialist who beat two billionaires in presidential voting.

If this happened, Bernie would literally never stop talking about the billionaires.
Click to expand...

What you're describing is the election of 1824. And we all know what happened 4 years later.
 
E

Elaugaufein

Member
You're freaking out over nothing. Sanders isn't going to win the Democratic Primary via the voter base screwing up. If he wins the Democratic Primary it'll be entirely about someone on Hillary's side doing something moronic enough to shake the faith of some of the Clinton supporters in this thread (but probably not adam). He has no realistic path to victory even ignoring superdelegates unless the Clinton campaign torpedoes itself.

Even if by some miracle he made it to a brokered convention with enough support for superdelegate votes to be the deciding factor, Clinton would be sufficiently ahead that at the utmost worst they could arrange superdelegates proportional to the delegates already won and Clinton would win (and no one could claim that wasn't fair*).

The worst he's going to get Clinton to do is give verbal support to some policies you already nominally agree with and that aren't going to cost her the general. And pretty much none of that matters anyway because the Democrats aren't going to control the House this year (short of Trump or a Republican running as an Independent and even then it's not likely).

In all probable worlds where Sanders wins the Democratic primary the fault would fall entirely on Clinton or the Democratic Party. In a vastly improbable world Clinton becomes unable to continue running due to some issue unrelated to the campaign and Sanders sails in that way and that still wouldn't be the fault of Democratic voters.

*In such a situation Clinton getting all the superdelegates would be monumentally boneheaded. The point is for her to win not to deliberately cause a rift in the Democratic Party voting base.
 
I

ICKE

Banned
So I watched the debate, few points:

-I think bringing up Kissinger can be seen as a valid criticism, because you should always question the kind of people that have influence over any candidate. But I think Sanders is dwelling on the past a bit too much. For instance, bringing up the 2002 Iraq resolution is getting tiresome. That was a long time ago, since then Hillary Clinton has been a competent Secretary of State and also part of the diplomatic negotiations with countries such as Iran.

-People are complaining online that Hillary was pandering to African-American voters when she constantly used Obama as a talking point. I don't think this is necessarily the case. It is not really a secret that Obama prefers Hillary over Sanders; actually most democrats do at this point. All these people (from Obama to Hillary and countless other representatives) want to see a continuation of the current framework. They don't want to risk everything over this concept of political revolution. Most politicians hate the idea of "progressive purity tests", the very reason why the Republican party is a total mess at the moment.

-Sanders is injecting many important issues to this debate, he is giving a voice to all the disenfranchised people. While I personally think Hillary Clinton is the more pragmatic choice at this point, people in Washington have to realize that there is a growing frustration not only in USA but the whole western world. Living costs are getting out of hand while wages are not improving adequately. It is extremely important to defend Obama's legacy but you also need the passion of all these young people if you want to pass any kind of meaningful legislation - be it paid parental leave, student loan and justice reform or equal pay to women. If Sanders loses this primary, as is likely to happen, Clinton really needs to think carefully who she wants as her VP-candidate.

On the other hand, if Bernie Sanders can somehow beat the odds and clinch the nomination, the VP pick absolutely has to be a woman. I'm usually not into identity politics but it is not a good look for the progressive party if the most well known female politician on this planet - who also happens to be extremely competent and experienced - is defeated two times in a row. You have all these progressive political commentators who say that they would "like to see a woman as the president but only if she is the right person for the job and is competent" . Hillary Clinton, on paper, is perhaps the most competent candidate we've seen in ages. If she is not good enough to be the first female president, then I don't know who could ever be....
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
ICKE said:
So I watched the debate, few points:

-I think bringing up Kissinger can be seen as a valid criticism, because you should always question the kind of people that have influence over any candidate. But I think Sanders is dwelling on the past a bit too much. For instance, bringing up the 2002 Iraq resolution is getting tiresome. That was a long time ago, since then Hillary Clinton has been a competent Secretary of State and also part of the diplomatic negotiations with countries such as Iran.

-People are complaining online that Hillary was pandering to African-American voters when she constantly used Obama as a talking point. I don't think this is necessarily the case. It is not really a secret that Obama prefers Hillary over Sanders; actually most democrats do at this point. All these people (from Obama to Hillary and countless other representatives) want to see a continuation of the current framework. They don't want to risk everything over this concept of political revolution. Most politicians hate the idea of "progressive purity tests", the very reason why the Republican party is a total mess at the moment.

-Sanders is injecting many important issues to this debate, he is giving a voice to all the disenfranchised people. While I personally think Hillary Clinton is the more pragmatic choice at this point, people in Washington have to realize that there is a growing frustration not only in USA but the whole western world. Living costs are getting out of hand while wages are not improving adequately. It is extremely important to defend Obama's legacy but you also need the passion of all these young people if you want to pass any kind of meaningful legislation - be it paid parental leave, student loan and justice reform or equal pay to women. If Sanders loses this primary, as is likely to happen, Clinton really needs to think carefully who she wants as her VP-candidate.

On the other hand, if Bernie Sanders can somehow beat the odds and clinch the nomination, the VP pick absolutely has to be a woman. I'm usually not into identity politics but it is not a good look for the progressive party if the most well known female politician on this planet - who also happens to be extremely competent and experienced - is defeated two times in a row. You have all these progressive political commentators who say that they would "like to see a woman as the president but only if she is the right person for the job and is competent" . Hillary Clinton, on paper, is perhaps the most competent candidate we've seen in ages. If she is not good enough to be the first female president, then I don't know who could ever be....
Click to expand...


Hillary has to give a voice to the frustrated people (which I think she did lot better in this debate) while remaining pragmatic. She can borrow some stuff from Obama there. If you go back and listen to Obama in 2008 he wasn't promising some sweeping revolution, he was a pragmatic, on many defense related things he was hawkish too. But the theme of his overall candidacy was more motivating and Hillary needs to reach there.
 
B

Black Republican

Member
I guess the networks thought the debate was boring since they're already talking about trump's profanity and the porn star in that ted cruz ad again lol.
They live for the fuckery in the GOP debates, heh.
 
E

Elaugaufein

Member
euphemism said:
More sensationalist panicking about something that's completely no surprise and par the course at this moment in the race. It's a stretch to suggest the Supers wouldn't follow the popular choice. It smacks of conspiracy theories and isn't a good look. Unless they are tying to look uninformed.
Click to expand...

They are there in case the party decides not to follow the popular(-ish)* choice. There's no other reason for more than enough to break a tie (and maybe counter the kinda borked weightings that can arise from districts) otherwise. Even if they don't generally do that the mere fact thats their purpose isn't a good look. The headline is very clickbait though but thats how the medias rolled at least since I could read


And its not exactly a secret the Party is putting its weight behind Clinton. People are using it as an argument for why Sanders would be a bad candidate.
 
C

Cheebo

Banned
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
I can't believe this fucking fuck fucker might be American Hitler:

Ca--jhkWEAATVLr.jpg


Hitler and Mussolini had fucking presence and didn't look like a D-tier actor posing in their first take in a "look serious!" scene. American deserves better from its fascist candidates. Deker Zoolander would do a better job looking like a real person.

Also, Trump's rallies seem to be massive and soldout again...
Click to expand...

Hitler and Mussolini were true believers. I still think Trump is just saying what he thinks the base wants to hear and thinks his supporters are complete idiots. He was a The "I wouldnt lose any support if I shot a guy" sort of comments kind of fit with that.

He was a liberal for decades, you just dont change overnight like that. I think he is just saying whatever the crazies who support him want to hear and he doesn't give a shit about any of it personally.
 
F

FloydtheFathead

Member
disastermouse said:
"It's difficult to be critical of your friends - we all know that, we've all been there, it's not easy. But the fact of the matter is that you have to look beyond loyalty to your friends and point out where they're making mistakes. Hillary Clinton is very loyal, perhaps to a fault. She maybe didn't criticize President Obama when it might have been good to do so. Wall Street is lucky to have such a loyal friend averse to judgement. The American people, however, need someone that they can trust to be frank, even with friends."

- Imaginary Bernie Sanders
Click to expand...

Are you Toby Ziegler from the West Wing? That bolded part sounds verbatim from a speech in the show.

-fake edit.. In fact almost word for word in the latter half.. Change out Wall Street and Human rights violations and that's the speech.
 
G

Gruco

Banned
Brawndo Addict said:
The difference between Hillary's constant Obama answers and Sander's constant Wall Street answers is that Hillary always sounds like she's pandering but Bernie always sounds like he believes it. What's more appealing? That depends, do you prefer the politician who you know is playing the game or the politician who actually believes in the miracle cure?
Click to expand...

I thought the main difference was that because Obama had multiple policies issues he addressed as president, bringing him up in a response to a lot of different questions was actually relevant.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
As far as Hillary mentinoing Obama, Nate made a point in the live blog of the debate that I agree with. There is no universe in which Hillary could run away from Obama. She was part of his administration, and they share almost every policy position there is. She saw what happened to Al Gore. So, I think part of her plan is to make the 2016 primary a referendum on Obama's legacy. It's demographically advantageous for her, and it limits what Bernie can attack her over without throwing Obama under the bus as well.
 
G

Gruco

Banned
It also exposes an easy major weakness of Bernie's. Easy to run as Obama's heir when your opponent wanted him to be primaried.

I think a lot of the youngest Bernie supporters see too heavy of analogy between 2008 and 2016. They think that Bernie and Obama both fought the same fight saving us from Hillary. I've even seen people ask why Obama hasn't endorsed Bernie yet. I think it's time to dispel the notion that Hillary isn't the heir to Obama's legacy.
 
D

disastermouse

Banned
FloydtheFathead said:
Are you Toby Ziegler from the West Wing? That bolded part sounds verbatim from a speech in the show.

-fake edit.. In fact almost word for word in the latter half.. Change out Wall Street and Human rights violations and that's the speech.
Click to expand...
I was a fan of the show, but if I cribbed it, it wasn't intentionally.
 
T

tomtom94

Member
Gruco said:
I think a lot of the youngest Bernie supporters see too heavy of analogy between 2008 and 2016. They think that Bernie and Obama both fought the same fight saving us from Hillary. I've even seen people ask why Obama hasn't endorsed Bernie yet. I think it's time to dispel the notion that Hillary isn't the heir to Obama's legacy.
Click to expand...

I'm sure Obama knows exactly what he's doing.
 
U

UltimaPooh

Member
adam387 said:
As far as Hillary mentinoing Obama, Nate made a point in the live blog of the debate that I agree with. There is no universe in which Hillary could run away from Obama. She was part of his administration, and they share almost every policy position there is. She saw what happened to Al Gore. So, I think part of her plan is to make the 2016 primary a referendum on Obama's legacy. It's demographically advantageous for her, and it limits what Bernie can attack her over without throwing Obama under the bus as well.
Click to expand...

Not so much a Queen then... But rather a Princess?
 
L

Loudninja

Member
Damn haha
Onion:Jeb Bush Assures Pipe-Wielding Thugs He’ll Have The Delegates He Promised Them By Next Week
CHARLESTON, SC—Pleading for more time as the group of men advanced on him in a Charleston alleyway, GOP presidential candidate Jeb Bush assured a gang of pipe-wielding thugs Thursday that he would have the delegates he had promised them by next week, sources reported. “Whoa, whoa, easy, fellas. I know I’m late on this, but I’ll have everything you need after next weekend, I swear,” said the former Florida governor, begging the dark-clad men not to break his kneecaps for failing to place in the top five in a recent Rasmussen Reports nationwide poll of Republican voters. “I’ve only got the three delegates right now, but you know I’m good for the rest of it. My luck’s starting to turn around, I can feel it.
Click to expand...
http://www.theonion.com/article/jeb-bush-assures-pipe-wielding-thugs-hell-have-del-52344
 
T

Teggy

Member
It seems unlikely, but I wonder if Iran has some receipts regarding their claims about the detained Americans. A release of evidence like that would be epic.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
UltimaPooh said:
Not so much a Queen then... But rather a Princess?
Click to expand...

I'm not saying she follows Obama, but that they both have nearly identical views on most issues. Anyone who followed 2008 knows that to be the case. I'm saying she's smart enough to realize this is a good strategy, and shows she's light years smarter than Al Gore on tying yourself to a popular President.
 
U

UltimaPooh

Member
adam387 said:
I'm not saying she follows Obama, but that they both have nearly identical views on most issues. Anyone who followed 2008 knows that to be the case. I'm saying she's smart enough to realize this is a good strategy, and shows she's light years smarter than Al Gore on tying yourself to a popular President.
Click to expand...

Haha. I'm just digging at ya.

Found this on Facebook. Damn hilarious I might say.

83UiMBA.jpg
 
D

Diablos

Member
Bernie waving his finger at the debate. Come on, are you kidding me. Do you Democrats see the literal elephant in the room that is Donald Trump? Get your shit together.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
There has never, in the history of the world, been a face I want to bitch slap more than Ted Cruz.

Diablos said:
Bernie waving his hand at the debate. Come on. Do you Denocrats see the literal elephant in the room that is Donald Trump? Get your shit together.
Click to expand...

hillaryrodhamclinton.jpg


Be still and know that I am god.
 
B

Black Republican

Member
Black Republican said:
So other events for this month


GOP debate Sat 13th Feb - South Carolina

Dem Caucus - Feb 20th - Nevada
GOP Primary - Feb 20th - South Carolina & Washington (caucus)

GOP Caucus - Feb 23rd - Nevada

GOP Debate - Feb 25th - Texas

Dem Primary - Feb 27th - South Carolina
Click to expand...

tomorrows debate will be LIT!
SC accidence will eat up Trumps B.S. so much


Diablos said:
Bernie waving his finger at the debate. Come on, are you kidding me. Do you Democrats see the literal elephant in the room that is Donald Trump? Get your shit together.
Click to expand...

i always saw you as a bernie type of liberal
 
U

User 463088

Banned
I'm just happy the GOP Shit Show is on the weekend. I can get completely shit faced.

And, ya, I realize how that KINDA sounds like I enjoy drinking a bit too much. Honestly, drunk Debates should be an actual thing. It's a lot of fun. It makes the GOP seem so much....I don't want to say "better..."
 
N

NeoXChaos

Member
“African-Americans and others elected him twice. For someone who wants to be the Democratic nominee, it’s very dangerous [to attack him],” said Rep. Gwen Moore (D-Wisc.), who’s supporting Clinton.

But Nina Turner, a former Ohio state senator who’s all-in for Sanders, was exasperated Thursday night when confronted with the question.
“The African-American community shouldn’t fall for that,” Turner said. “As an African-American woman, I find it quite insulting. I find it insulting to have a candidate cloak themselves in this president. Stand up and talk about what you’re doing, what you’re fighting for.”
Click to expand...


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/democratic-debate-obama-2016-219189#ixzz3zxoKpS7f
 
D

Diablos

Member
Black Republican said:
i always saw you as a bernie type of liberal
Click to expand...
Technically I am. But there's also this thing called being a realist. His policies and leadership style are not viable in this political climate. I don't want a right wing SCOTUS and buying barebones insurance based out of Delaware until I'm old. I don't want careless foreign policy. I don't want another 4-8 years of any kind of GOP policy. I'll vote for Hillary. We can strive for a revolution when we're older and the country is hopefully less conservative.
 
U

UltimaPooh

Member
Diablos said:
Technically I am. But there's also this thing called being a realist. His policies and leadership style are not viable in this political climate. I don't want a right wing SCOTUS and buying barebones insurance based out of Delaware until I'm old. I don't want careless foreign policy. I don't want another 4-8 years of any kind of GOP policy. I'll vote for Hillary. We can strive for a revolution when we're older and the country is hopefully less conservative.
Click to expand...

How old are you now?
 
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