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PoliGAF 2016 |OT| Ask us about our performance with Latinos in Nevada
- Thread starter Makai
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UltimaPooh
Member
15-20 years. You can't ask for a progressive revolution. Not in today's political climate. Sorry.
Surely you can ASK....
But that's just a philosophical thing.
But anyway that's a long ass wait for us to shift back left.
I don't expect a political revolution to happen over night but I do want to take steps towards it, starting yesterday.
I'm not really looking for an argument to swing you to Bernie or vise versa or whatever. I just wanted to see how much longer you think it would be from your current age until we have a progressive political climate. Just seems a little late in your/our lives to have a stronger social safety net and a more equal economy.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Bernie said race relations will be better under him than Obama.
Great. Please make him President now, I want to see this.
Great. Please make him President now, I want to see this.
Macho Madness
Member
Not enough people criticizing Bernie's "we're going to stop being the #1 country in prison population" by the end of his first term. That's a bigger pie in the sky promise than his healthcare and college initiatives.
You like so many others clearly underestimated "red" America. They're not going anywhere for quite some time. Did you not learn anything from 2010? These people have a lot of power when they come out to vote.Surely you can ASK....
But that's just a philosophical thing.
But anyway that's a long ass wait for us to shift back left.
I don't expect a political revolution to happen over night but I do want to take steps towards it, starting yesterday.
I'm not really looking for an argument to swing you to Bernie or vise versa or whatever. I just wanted to see how much longer you think it would be from your current age until we have a progressive political climate. Just seems a little late in your/our lives to have a stronger social safety net and a more equal economy.
Is there anything he can't do? He's raising the bar so high for himself that even if he did win (lol) he's going to be a yuge disappointment.Bernie said race relations will be better under him than Obama.
Great. Please make him President now, I want to see this.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Surely you can ASK....
But that's just a philosophical thing.
But anyway that's a long ass wait for us to shift back left.
I don't expect a political revolution to happen over night but I do want to take steps towards it, starting yesterday.
I'm not really looking for an argument to swing you to Bernie or vise versa or whatever. I just wanted to see how much longer you think it would be from your current age until we have a progressive political climate. Just seems a little late in your/our lives to have a stronger social safety net and a more equal economy.
The timeline is the amount of time it takes to elect progressives into local offices, and then state assemblies and some governorships, and then the House, and then the Senate, and then the Presidency. You can do some of that simultaneously but not all of it and going for a Presidential moonshot every 4 or 8 years is mostly just running in place. Or backwards, if you manage to put one up and he/she gets blown out of the water.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Not enough people criticizing Bernie's "we're going to stop being the #1 country in prison population" by the end of his first term. That's a bigger pie in the sky promise than his healthcare and college initiatives.
All his promises are pie in the sky.
People eat it up though. I don't get it.All his promises are pie in the sky.
QuiteWhittle
Member
Something I've been curious about. Are millennials so progressive because of some all-encompassing shift towards liberalism in youth or because of their racial diversity? Are white millennials more Democratic than white GenXers? Are older minorities less Democratic than their millennial counterparts?
Any studies on this?
Any studies on this?
UltimaPooh
Member
You like so many others clearly underestimated "red" America. They're not going anywhere for quite some time. Did you not learn anything from 2010? These people have a lot of power when they come out to vote.
I don't underestimate them. I know they're out there, and I know what they did to set us back.
We as the "youngins" should realize the power we have. That's the downside to all of this progressiveness... We don't get out and we don't vote. But if we did we could change things.
There are 112 million Millennials and Generation Xers out there. We are now the biggest chunk of people who would vote for such things. We're all pretty much at voting age.
You wanted us to be older? We're already there.
shinra-bansho
Member
Millenials are all over the place inconsistent because they're poo. And there are studies on this I believe.Something I've been curious about. Are millennials so progressive because of some all-encompassing shift towards liberalism in youth or because it's the most diverse generation ever? Are white millennials more Democratic than white GenXers? Are older minorities less Democratic than their millennial counterparts?
Any studies on this?
cartoon_soldier
Member
Something I've been curious about. Are millennials so progressive because of some all-encompassing shift towards liberalism in youth or because of their racial diversity? Are white millennials more Democratic than white GenXers? Are older minorities less Democratic than their millennial counterparts?
Any studies on this?
Fucking commies man
Macho Madness
Member
Yes but free college and single payer are possible with congressional support. Reducing the population of prisons that the federal government has no real control over? Um.All his promises are pie in the sky.
Not enough people criticizing Bernie's "we're going to stop being the #1 country in prison population" by the end of his first term. That's a bigger pie in the sky promise than his healthcare and college initiatives.
Basically getting Stockholm Syndrome from magic Bernie. All of his policies will never become law, but that never stops him from shooting the moon. He uses widely discredited assumptions about cost savings and revenue projections. He ignores questions about how republican controlled states will affect spending. Eventually he starts says stuff like this. In a way it's a brilliant strategy. Destroy your own credibility and you can say anything you want. No one will even blink.
It's working for Trump, too.
QuiteWhittle
Member
http://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/nv-toplines.pdf
New Nevada poll. Has Clinton and Sanders tied at 45 percent.
New Nevada poll. Has Clinton and Sanders tied at 45 percent.
Fuck.http://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/nv-toplines.pdf
New Nevada poll. Has Clinton and Sanders tied at 45 percent.
Yes but free college and single payer are possible with congressional support. Reducing the population of prisons that the federal government has no real control over? Um.
Yea, I was curious about that, but I don't know anything about this. Is there a way the president can do this? Can he get anyone jails on marijuana possession released for example?
Macho Madness
Member
67% said they're "definitely participating" in the caucus, and 55% said they are new caucus goers. That last point can't be seen as good for Clinton. But it's caucus polling, and a closed caucus at that. Could mean nothing.
Veritigo_X
Member
http://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/nv-toplines.pdf
New Nevada poll. Has Clinton and Sanders tied at 45 percent.
Eh, I'm about done with caucus polling. Give me some polls that are actually predictive.
What do you mean by shift back to the left? Clinton isn't a move to the right from Obama. Obama surely wasn't a move to the right from G.W. Bush. The country is moving to the left because the right keeps putting up ideologues who offend the middle almost as much as they offend the extreme left.Surely you can ASK....
But that's just a philosophical thing.
But anyway that's a long ass wait for us to shift back left.
I don't expect a political revolution to happen over night but I do want to take steps towards it, starting yesterday.
I'm not really looking for an argument to swing you to Bernie or vise versa or whatever. I just wanted to see how much longer you think it would be from your current age until we have a progressive political climate. Just seems a little late in your/our lives to have a stronger social safety net and a more equal economy.
Sanders would be a case of the democrats following the republican's lead into alienating ideologues who speak about doing things even your average disinterested middle of the road voter knows isn't even possible. He takes a clear path forward and puts it at risk entirely on the grounds of a rhetorical cause.
Sanders in the primary would help in pushing Clinton a bit more to the left, but she's specifically running on being a continuation of Obama's policies. Those policies may be only iterative steps forward, but they are still steps forward.
The best real option here is a Clinton/Warren ticket that would likely position the nation for 24 years of consistent progressive oversight.
Macho Madness
Member
Note that the poll includes Republicans and Independents, and some of those candidate specific questions. Lmao.
Something I've been curious about. Are millennials so progressive because of some all-encompassing shift towards liberalism in youth or because of their racial diversity? Are white millennials more Democratic than white GenXers? Are older minorities less Democratic than their millennial counterparts?
Any studies on this?
I'd say it's a few factors. This is all my opinion of course. One of which is the internet. In areas with more population, and a more diverse population, you tend to see more progressive and liberal values. In rural areas where things are more uniform, things are more conservative. Interacting with different cultures tends to make people more liberal. With the internet, all of the sudden people are in contact with more diverse people than ever before. And people who hold marginalized views (on both sides) can find like-minded people, which strengthens their worldview.
The other thing to think about is that the young Milennials grew up under Bush and neoconservatism. We saw how that presidency destroyed the country and how the coming of deregulation and trickle down resulted in this massive inequality. So most young people are sick of conservatism. Add in social issues and it makes sense
NYCmetsfan
Banned
I'm more than willing to belived a poll finds them tied.http://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/nv-toplines.pdf
New Nevada poll. Has Clinton and Sanders tied at 45 percent.
But I am no way going to use a free beacon poll. This poll is designed to be pushed by sander supporters by the rich people they are running their entire campaign attacking. The questions are laughable and the article that accompanies this is full of false statements and falsely claiming clintons campaign said something false that they never said.
The free beacon is a journalistic front for establishment right wing press releases
shinra-bansho
Member
It was a weird unachievable claim; I'm not sure if it was a prepared remark or a spur of the moment grandstand, but it's not feasible.Yea, I was curious about that, but I don't know anything about this. Is there a way the president can do this? Can he get anyone jails on marijuana possession released for example?
It's probably not worth trying to figure it out.
I'm not dismissing anything anymore. Bernie is a threat to Hillary, clearly.Note that the poll includes Republicans and Independents, and some of those candidate specific questions. Lmao.
Need more polls for NV and SC.
Lord_Byron28
Member
I think it's obvious that after the economic recession, the middle class was angry and wanted radical change after that. They diverted into two routes, the tea party and Occupation Wallstreet. Bernie is the only presidential candidate appealing to the Occupy Wallstreet crowd.What do you mean by shift back to the left? Clinton isn't a move to the right from Obama. Obama surely wasn't a move to the right from G.W. Bush. The country is moving to the left because the right keeps putting up ideologues who offend the middle almost as much as they offend the extreme left.
Sanders would be a case of the democrats following the republican's lead into alienating ideologues who speak about doing things even your average disinterested middle of the road voter knows isn't even possible. He takes a clear path forward and puts it at risk entirely on the grounds of a rhetorical cause.
Sanders in the primary would help in pushing Clinton a bit more to the left, but she's specifically running on being a continuation of Obama's policies. Those policies may be only iterative steps forward, but they are still steps forward.
The best real option here is a Clinton/Warren ticket that would likely position the nation for 24 years of consistent progressive oversight.
Oh my lord.I'm not dismissing anything anymore. Bernie is a threat to Hillary, clearly.
Need more polls for NV and SC.
maabus1999
Member
http://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/nv-toplines.pdf
New Nevada poll. Has Clinton and Sanders tied at 45 percent.
Holy biased questions....
Is this a legit polling firm? Those are horribly written questions.
I don't think you understand. Diablos actually has a better perspective than most because he lives in Pennsylvania.I don't underestimate them. I know they're out there, and I know what they did to set us back.
We as the "youngins" should realize the power we have. That's the downside to all of this progressiveness... We don't get out and we don't vote. But if we did we could change things.
There are 112 million Millennials and Generation Xers out there. We are now the biggest chunk of people who would vote for such things. We're all pretty much at voting age.
You wanted us to be older? We're already there.
You think that just through sheer number you can do what you want, but are those 112 million living in red states? Are they living in rural areas? Are they living in the places where we can take votes? Are they living in purple states or states we're "hoping" will turn purple?
Hispanics are a growing minority, but they're actually rather conservative. After all, in Texas they vote Ted Cruz and Republicans have power locally. Asians are also more conservative-leaning on issues of money and taxes.
"We're the biggest" "We have the most say" "We're the most powerful"it's a fantasy of people who put themselves into the majority because they think their opinion is the majority opinion. The reality is there is not singular opinion, not everyone agrees on your order of issue importance, nor do they agree with every one of your stances.
If black voters and Hispanic voters are not a monolith, neither are young voters.
UltimaPooh
Member
What do you mean by shift back to the left? Clinton isn't a move to the right from Obama. Obama surely wasn't a move to the right from G.W. Bush. The country is moving to the left because the right keeps putting up ideologues who offend the middle almost as much as they offend the extreme left.
Who said Clinton is a shift to the right? Stop projecting stuff. And have you seen Congress? Which is what we mean when we discuss political climate? That's dominated by Republicans... which means currently we are shifting to the right, even tho we have a Dem in the White House.
Sanders would be a case of the democrats following the republican's lead into alienating ideologues who speak about doing things even your average disinterested middle of the road voter knows isn't even possible. He takes a clear path forward and puts it at risk entirely on the grounds of a rhetorical cause.
It's only not possible if we're not serious about it.
Sanders in the primary would help in pushing Clinton a bit more to the left, but she's specifically running on being a continuation of Obama's policies. Those policies may be only iterative steps forward, but they are still steps forward.
I'd agree with that. But again it's Hilary... I'll vote for her win I have to.
The best real option here is a Clinton/Warren ticket that would likely position the nation for 24 years of consistent progressive oversight.
Gross. Keep Warren where she is wonderful and useful to us. In Congress. Stop taking our useful progressives and putting them in useless positions. We always need more of them in Congress.
If black voters and Hispanic voters are not a monolith, neither are young voters.
That's a really good point. We're not all the same and each of us is an individual living some where.
If that's the case though... how does he expect us to ever shift back to a progressive political climate? Or any of us for that matter?
Holy biased questions....
Is this a legit polling firm? Those are horribly written questions.
no. ignore it.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
http://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/nv-toplines.pdf
New Nevada poll. Has Clinton and Sanders tied at 45 percent.
I honestly hope those GOP attack ads against Sanders get some play because if he ends up making a real run we need to know what they're coming at him with and how the country is taking the socialist label.
That said, we'll see how this poll looks after SC.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
How soon till a OT thread where Bernie supports get used by right wing press and parade around this?no. ignore it.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Bernie said race relations will be better under him than Obama.
Great. Please make him President now, I want to see this.
That question was a goddamn trap. I'm disappointed the moderaters asked it that way. Hillary smartly sidestepped it. I'm genuinely surprised Bernie walked into it
Macho Madness
Member
Nevada is before South Carolina for the Democratic Party. It's also a caucus and ergo hard to poll in the first place.I honestly hope those GOP attack ads against Sanders get some play because if he ends up making a real run we need to know what they're coming at him with and how the country is taking the socialist label.
That said, we'll see how this poll looks after SC.
Black Republican
Member
wait, team jeb really think they can win South Carolina?
ha!
Nevada (20th) is before SC (27th) on the dem side
ha!
I honestly hope those GOP attack ads against Sanders get some play because if he ends up making a real run we need to know what they're coming at him with and how the country is taking the socialist label.
That said, we'll see how this poll looks after SC.
Nevada (20th) is before SC (27th) on the dem side
gutter_trash
Banned
wow, those are really good positive adds. I hope he keeps it up
QuiteWhittle
Member
I'm more than willing to belived a poll finds them tied.
But I am no way going to use a free beacon poll. This poll is designed to be pushed by sander supporters by the rich people they are running their entire campaign attacking. The questions are laughable and the article that accompanies this is full of false statements and falsely claiming clintons campaign said something false that they never said.
The free beacon is a journalistic front for establishment right wing press releases
Sorry about that then, I posted as soon as I saw it on Twitter. I guess I should've used more discretion when posting polls.
Macho Madness
Member
Generally when you see it tweeted from a Republican SuperPAC, it's probably (definitely) not reliable.
https://twitter.com/AmericaRising/status/698164678887755776
https://twitter.com/AmericaRising/status/698164678887755776
Black Republican
Member
i could see Hilary losing NV by a couple points, no way a blowout like NH though.
Yeah well sadly our generation doesn't like to vote a lot.I don't underestimate them. I know they're out there, and I know what they did to set us back.
We as the "youngins" should realize the power we have. That's the downside to all of this progressiveness... We don't get out and we don't vote. But if we did we could change things.
There are 112 million Millennials and Generation Xers out there. We are now the biggest chunk of people who would vote for such things. We're all pretty much at voting age.
You wanted us to be older? We're already there.
It's very chaotic to only show up during Presidential elections and skip out of midterms and local elections. Case in point, so many fellow millennials are deciding they want to take part in the process again without even taking into account the reality of our politics circa 2011 and thinking they can just vote for Bernie so everything can be made whole again. They're fools and they underestimate the tenacity of the GOP. Sanders is Mondale. He's nothing but ideas and no leadership.
When we get older however and the country hopefully continues to shift left, then we'll be in a better position to be more reliable voters because the overall political climate will be more liberal. Thus you can be a lazy millennial but still have a bigger voice when you actually vote. You can't be that half-assed about it today and expect to always get what you want though.
i could see Hilary losing NV by a couple points, no way a blowout like NH though.
I do agree with Crab (for once! ;-) ). If Bernie wins Nevada then he becomes the front runner for the nomination at that point. Not saying the race is over, but he won't be the underdog if he's able to win a contest in a state like Nevada.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
Technomancer brought it up earlier but I think there's a strong argument that you have to carve up millennials into subgroups to make sense of them. I'm not sure where I'd draw the line but the difference between someone who came of age during the Bush years and someone who came of age during the Obama years is massive on the political side, then you've got how intertwined social media became in our lives, etc.
UltimaPooh
Member
Yeah well sadly our generation doesn't like to vote a lot.
It's very chaotic to only show up during Presidential elections and skip out of midterms and local elections. Case in point, so many fellow millennials are deciding they want to take part in the process again without even taking into account the reality of our politics circa 2011 and thinking they can just vote for Bernie so everything can be made whole again. They're fools and they underestimate the tenacity of the GOP. Sanders is Mondale. He's nothing but ideas and no leadership.
When we get older however and the country hopefully continues to shift left, then we'll be in a better position to be more reliable voters because the overall political climate will be more liberal. Thus you can be a lazy millennial but still have a bigger voice when you actually vote. You can't be that half-assed about it today and expect to always get what you want though.
I think that's a bit unfair to say he has no leadership.
Technomancer brought it up earlier but I think there's a strong argument that you have to carve up millennials into subgroups to make sense of them. I'm not sure where I'd draw the line but the difference between someone who came of age during the Bush years and someone who came of age during the Obama years is massive on the political side, then you've got how intertwined social media became in our lives, etc.
Ooooooh a discussion about my demographic! What would be the differences between an Obama Millennial and a Bush Millennial?
Or they could just be highlighting how dysfunctional Democrats, party and voters alike, look right now.Generally when you see it tweeted from a Republican SuperPAC, it's probably (definitely) not reliable.
https://twitter.com/AmericaRising/status/698164678887755776
QuiteWhittle
Member
Here's another poll for the Republican SC primary, hopefully more reputable than the last.Generally when you see it tweeted from a Republican SuperPAC, it's probably (definitely) not reliable.
https://twitter.com/AmericaRising/status/698164678887755776
http://www.southernpoliticalreport.com/2016/02/12/opinion-savvy-poll-conducted-for-augusta-chronicle-morris-news-and-fox-5-atlanta-trumps-holds-substantial-lead-in-south-carolina-battle-for-second-is-tight/
Trump: 36%
Cruz: 19%
Rubio: 15%
Bush: 11%
Kasich: 9%
Carson: 5%
Undecided: 5%
Last month's poll from the same outfit:
32% Trump
18% Cruz
13% Bush
11% Rubio
9% Carson
4% Christie
3% Fiorina
2% Huckabee
2% Kasich
2% Paul
1% Santorum
3% Undecided
RustyNails
Member
Hes not winning NV. It's a closed system. He lost Iowa's semi-open system. On top of that the demographics are less in his favor than Iowa. In order to win NV he needs a massive shift in his numbers with minorities.i could see Hilary losing NV by a couple points, no way a blowout like NH though.
Wild guess, but I think it will end up 51-46 in Hillary favor.
Macho Madness
Member
Compared to the Republicans, the Democrats are dancing in unison.Or they could just be highlighting how dysfunctional Democrats, party and voters alike, look right now.
theprodigy
Member
Or you could stop diablosing.Or they could just be highlighting how dysfunctional Democrats, party and voters alike, look right now.
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