• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

PoliGAF 2016 |OT| Ask us about our performance with Latinos in Nevada

Status
Not open for further replies.
Yes, under Killer Mike's criteria, if Donald Trump or Marco Rubio had a uterus that would also not automatically qualify them to be President. How very generous of him. I'm sure we can all agree that Mike was just listing out all of things that don't automatically make you President. Surely he also stated that just being white, or gay, or having a learning disability doesn't mean you get to be President? Oh he didn't? No he went after the only woman running for the office but couldn't attack her qualifications so instead he brought up her anatomy.


Thanks for proving to everyone here that you didn't listen to a word that he said.

He made two statements regarding qualifications, the first was about the whole uterus thing and that was that. The second was about his idea of a good social justice platform, and he simply pointed out that Bernie was the only candidate (out of all of the candidates running) that qualified under that specific criteria, which had nothing to do with anyone's anatomy.

Your post is a complete non-sequitur.
 
Thanks for proving to everyone here that you didn't listen to a word that he said.

He made two statements regarding qualifications, the first was about the whole uterus thing and that was that. The second was about his idea of a good social justice platform, and he simply pointed out that Bernie was the only candidate (out of all of the candidates running) that qualified under that specific criteria, which had nothing to do with anyone's anatomy.

Your post is a complete non-sequitur.
If it had nothing to do with social justice, then why did killer mike even bring up uterus while talking about it? You're feverishly trying to bury your head in the sand. What KM said was idiotic and demeaning and exactly what Hillary talks about when railing against sexism.
 

fantomena

Member
I agreed with what Bill Maher said on his show.

I think the rules are out of the windows, like the rules on who is electable or not.

Everyone said Trump is a joke, he's dumb, he's not electable, he won't do this and he won't do that. Guess what, Trump is still beating the shit out of everyone else in the GOP race. He's not dumb, he knows exactly what he does and he has done everything everyone said he wouldn't do.

Bernie was long behind Hillary and now he's getting closer. Yes, he will probably not win, he will probably not win any of the southern sates. But for everything he has done I think he deservers peoples benefit of the doubt.

The rules are out of the windows and anything can happen this year.
 
CamU1ldW8AAKH5M.jpg

real or fake? lol
 
This matchup is supposed to trigger The Bloomberg Protocol, so it's not like you'd be able to see a 1v1 anyway.

I had to come back to this scenario and its possibilities. You could potentially have a scenario where no candidate gains enough electoral votes and the House of Representatives gets to decide. I have to think they would pick Bloomberg over Trump at that point right?

Extra craziness if the dems magically took back the house only to watch themselves lose the presidency because of the outgoing class.
 
Bernie's not losing MN, I can tell you that. People are on fire for him up here.



And then she turned around and suggested that his campaign might just be playing coy

https://youtu.be/_17o4Sg136E


Apparently, aside from Georgia, Bernie's ground game is better than Hillary's at this point.

Better ground game (which on a national level I haven't seen yet) won't close most of those gaps, especially while good, it is not at Obama levels.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
real or fake? lol

Who can tell anymore :lol

I had to come back to this scenario and its possibilities. You could potentially have a scenario where no candidate gains enough electoral votes and the House of Representatives gets to decide. I think they would have to pick Bloomberg over Trump at that point right?

I imagine Congress would jump over themselves to make a deal to keep Trump out.

Supposedly that would be Bloomberg's strategy where he splits it up enough to get it to the House of Representatives where they would rather have him than Trump. He would pick up enough Democrat and Republican votes that he might slither through. It's an absolutely insane strategy but everybody is going 'fuck it' this year.

If there was ever a year it could work, this would be it.
 

Jarmel

Banned
I had to come back to this scenario and its possibilities. You could potentially have a scenario where no candidate gains enough electoral votes and the House of Representatives gets to decide. I think they would have to pick Bloomberg over Trump at that point right?

Extra craziness if the dems magically took back the house only to watch themselves lose the presidency because of the outgoing class.

Supposedly that would be Bloomberg's strategy where he splits it up enough to get it to the House of Representatives where they would rather have him than Trump. He would pick up enough Democrat and Republican votes that he might slither through. It's an absolutely insane strategy but everybody is going 'fuck it' this year.
 
If it had nothing to do with social justice, then why did killer mike even bring up uterus while talking about it? You're feverishly trying to bury your head in the sand. What KM said was idiotic and demeaning and exactly what Hillary talks about when railing against sexism.

Because he probably feels (as many do) that Hillary plays her gender card many times as a safety net that lends her more credibility. For whatever small percentage of women voters that would vote for her solely because of her female anatomy, reiterating to that base that she's a woman only reinforces that line of thinking. Killer Mike criticized her by quoting a WOMAN who had apparently been put off by this 'tactic'. It's a fair criticism and people have the right to feel offended.
 
Thanks for proving to everyone here that you didn't listen to a word that he said.

He made two statements regarding qualifications, the first was about the whole uterus thing and that was that. The second was about his idea of a good social justice platform, and he simply pointed out that Bernie was the only candidate (out of all of the candidates running) that qualified under that specific criteria, which had nothing to do with anyone's anatomy.

Your post is a complete non-sequitur.

We may not have the same understanding of what the phrase non sequitur means. To me, its a response that doesn't have any relationship to the previous statement. To you its apparently anything you don't want to hear. My point is that there are literally infinite numbers of things that you can possess that don't automatically make you President. For instance Clinton has been a Senator, Secretary of State, etc and no one claims every one whose had that office should become President. Instead he called out the one thing Clinton has that no other candidate does, a uterus. That's why my listing all of the other things he could mentioned, but strangely didn't, is a response. Now please explain how that is a non-sequitur.
 

Eidan

Member
Rubio SuperPac is spending 1.6 million in SC going after...Bush?

This "establishment lane" nonsense is hilarious to me. With NH, listening Kasich's speech you'd think that he had WON the damn thing. These guys are getting destroyed by Trump, and they seem content acting like he's still a triviality that will disappear at some indeterminate point in the future.
 
This "establishment lane" nonsense is hilarious to me. With NH, listening Kasich's speech you'd think that he had WON the damn thing. These guys are getting destroyed by Trump, and they seem content acting like he's still a triviality that will disappear at some indeterminate point in the future.

Maybe the RNC has some secret ploy that is going to toss out all of Trump's, and Cruz's, delegates at the last moment...
 
Because he probably feels (as many do) that Hillary plays her gender card many times as a safety net that lends her more credibility. For whatever small percentage of women voters that would vote for her solely because of her female anatomy, reiterating to that base that she's a woman only reinforces that line of thinking. Killer Mike criticized her by quoting a WOMAN who had apparently been put off by this 'tactic'. It's a fair criticism and people have the right to feel offended.
Hillary can say it's about darn time we had a female president and it's a legitimate claim. Obama can say the same about a black president. Imagine someone saying "having a black skin doesn not qualify you to become a president" it's just ridiculous. Her qualifications speak for themselves. Hillary is more qualified to be the president than every fucking clown on stage both R, D and I right now combined.
 
This "establishment lane" nonsense is hilarious to me. With NH, listening Kasich's speech you'd think that he had WON the damn thing. These guys are getting destroyed by Trump, and they seem content acting like he's still a triviality that will disappear at some indeterminate point in the future.

Maybe W is working, we need some internals leaked.
 

dramatis

Member
Killer Mike is not wrong in what he suggested; having a uterus does NOT automatically qualify you for president of the United States. This isn't even debatable, it's a fact.

Now, you can argue that she does qualify based on her own merits and policies, but that isn't what Killer Mike was talking about. Furthermore, specifically laid out his criteria for qualification, and Hillary doesn't fit it, in his opinion. Simple as that.

But we're gonna nip this in the bud right now and shut down your bullshit argument: Elizabeth Warren--A WOMAN--would be qualified to be our president under Killer Mike's criteria, HANDS DOWN. So stop making this about some imaginary attack on Hillary just because she's a woman. There are other women than Hillary that certain people would feel would be more qualified than Hillary to be president. That's their opinion and you shouldn't misrepresent their opinion by telling them that they're only saying that because she's a woman.
Except Hillary Clinton is qualified, because the qualification stated was "have policy reflective of social justice", and that's exactly what she has. You weren't reading my post, nor were you trying to look at the issue from a different perspective, you straight up just staked out a defensive position.

So the complaint boils down to "stop talking about your uterus, it doesn't qualify you for the presidency". The implication is that "women running for president should not talk about how they are women, as it's not really a qualification". I think it is, because the amount of shit women have to deal with being in the public sphere is far harsher and shittier than what any man has to deal with in the public sphere. The qualification of being a 'uterus' and getting to this stage is that said 'uterus' is tougher, stronger, and harder working than a penis candidate can claim to be.

Women get criticized for talking about being women, they get criticized for not talking about being women, they get criticized for talking too much or too little. There's no way out of it. And you're thinking about this with the idea that this is an "imaginary attack on women" when he specifically used a female body part to represent women? That the casual dropping of this is not sexist? That Hillary hasn't proven herself throughout all these decades, so she shouldn't sell her 'uterus' as an argument for her superior women's rights record? It's unconscious, it looks okay from a shallow analysis, but when you think about it, why isn't being a woman an argument for superior qualifications, especially now when women are still not equal to men? Why isn't being a woman at the presidential campaign level an example of willpower, endurance, and ability? Why isn't a female president a symbol of change? Why isn't a female candidate supposed to promote what her 'uterus' means for other 'uteri'? Why is this all discredited because the candidate is a woman that you or Killer Mike or Snowman don't support?

Oh right. Because she's Hillary Clinton and she's not Elizabeth Warren, so selectively "Hillary being a uterus" is not equal to "Elizabeth Warren being a woman".

You can try to use Elizabeth Warren as a 'shutdown shield', doesn't change the fact that Hillary qualifies with or without said description of who would 'really' qualify for the presidency. Your argument is basically "I'm not being sexist about Hillary Clinton, my best friend is female!" Surely you can think of something better. Your statement is about as much of a shut down as Jeb trying to attack Trump.
 
We may not have the same understanding of what the phrase non sequitur means. To me, its a response that doesn't have any relationship to the previous statement. To you its apparently anything you don't want to hear. My point is that there are literally infinite numbers of things that you can possess that don't automatically make you President. For instance Clinton has been a Senator, Secretary of State, etc and no one claims every one whose had that office should become President. Instead he called out the one thing Clinton has that no other candidate does, a uterus. That's why my listing all of the other things he could mentioned, but strangely didn't, is a response. Now please explain how that is a non-sequitur.

It's a non-sequitur because his specific criteria for an ideal social justice platform has nothing to do with Hillary's uterus, and vice-versa.

He brought up her gender because as he was comparing the candidates, he noted that some have brought up her gender as reason to vote for her, so he then rebutted that with a quote from Jane Elliott (also a woman, BTW) who said that 'having a uterus doesn't [automatically] qualify you for president.

It was a tangent and not the crux of his message, nor did it have anything to do with his comments on social justice, which is actually the relevant part of his CRITERIA, so yes, I'd say that your post was, and still is, a non-sequitur.
 
Supposedly that would be Bloomberg's strategy where he splits it up enough to get it to the House of Representatives where they would rather have him than Trump. He would pick up enough Democrat and Republican votes that he might slither through. It's an absolutely insane strategy but everybody is going 'fuck it' this year.

If truth is stranger than fiction...

This is too amazing not to happen. This is now my official prediction! Or guilty desire or whatever.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
PPP Super Tuesday polling:

Cbbb-iyW0AAheXe.jpg





If he can't win here, where can he win outside of Iowa? The field will never narrow to just him and Trump either since the establishment will probably force Rubio or Jeb to stay in the race.

Texas.

NeoXChaos said:
Monmouth SC

Trump 35
Cruz 19
Rubio 17
Kasich 9
Jeb 8

3-5-3 plan in full effect! Straight to the Oval Office!
 
So, using those PPP numbers, I did the math.

Assuming Hillary wins SC by the current average, and assuming Bernie wins NV by 2-5%, I wanted to see where the results would put us. I used PPPs numbers and gave each candidate the number of delegates they would earn based on finishing with that percentage of the vote.

However, I gave Bernie the benefit of the doubt, and assumed that every single undecided voter would go directly to him. (Which is not going to happen, but I wanted to give him the best case scenario).

Best case scenario, we'd be looking at

Hillary 920
Bernie 475

(That's the contest to date, including Super Delegates).

Without Supers, only pledged from Iowa through all the PPP states:

Hillary 558
Bernie 467

Now, a far more realistic scenario, in which the remaining voters break by current margins towards whomever is leading the state gives us the following rough estimates

Hillary 624
Bernie 397

With Supers

Hillary 1053
Bernie 380

Then we have Florida and Ohio coming up in March which would not bode well for Bernie at all, I wouldn't think. Even in the best case scenario, I just don't see where Bernie can make up 91 delegates. In the more realistic scenario, there is absolutely no way he can make up 227. Plus, he'd have no argument to make to the Supers to get them on his side.


****This was just strict proportional representation right down the middle. I didn't go into awards based on congressional districts or anything like that. ****
 

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
Man, people realllllly don't remember 2008 if they are remotely surprised HRC and her supporters are accusing people supporting her opponent in the primary of being sexist. Obama Boys, anyone? Look at the shock on my face that in 2016, once again, her opponents supporters must be sexist or racist to not support Clinton. She does whatever it takes to win, ethics be damned. (I don't generally begrudge her for it. Politics and all)

Go look up the pictures her campaign leaked with Obama in "un-American" clothing, or remind yourself that it was the HRC campaign, not the republicans, that started the birther conspiracy. (Fun thought experiment - isn't it odd that Trump, the Clinton friend at the time, was the one who also brought it up loudly?)
 
Hillary can say it's about darn time we had a female president and it's a legitimate claim. Obama can say the same about a black president. Imagine someone saying "having a black skin doesn not qualify you to become a president" it's just ridiculous. Her qualifications speak for themselves. Hillary is more qualified to be the president than every fucking clown on stage both R, D and I right now combined.

Except Hillary Clinton is qualified, because the qualification stated was "have policy reflective of social justice", and that's exactly what she has. You weren't reading my post, nor were you trying to look at the issue from a different perspective, you straight up just staked out a defensive position.

So the complaint boils down to "stop talking about your uterus, it doesn't qualify you for the presidency". The implication is that "women running for president should not talk about how they are women, as it's not really a qualification". I think it is, because the amount of shit women have to deal with being in the public sphere is far harsher and shittier than what any man has to deal with in the public sphere. The qualification of being a 'uterus' and getting to this stage is that said 'uterus' is tougher, stronger, and harder working than a penis candidate can claim to be.

Women get criticized for talking about being women, they get criticized for not talking about being women, they get criticized for talking too much or too little. There's no way out of it. And you're thinking about this with the idea that this is an "imaginary attack on women" when he specifically used a female body part to represent women? That the casual dropping of this is not sexist? That Hillary hasn't proven herself throughout all these decades, so she shouldn't sell her 'uterus' as an argument for her superior women's rights record? It's unconscious, it looks okay from a shallow analysis, but when you think about it, why isn't being a woman an argument for superior qualifications, especially now when women are still not equal to men? Why isn't being a woman at the presidential campaign level an example of willpower, endurance, and ability? Why isn't a female president a symbol of change? Why isn't a female candidate supposed to promote what her 'uterus' means for other 'uteri'? Why is this all discredited because the candidate is a woman that you or Killer Mike or Snowman don't support?

Oh right. Because she's Hillary Clinton and she's not Elizabeth Warren, so selectively "Hillary being a uterus" is not equal to "Elizabeth Warren being a woman".

You can try to use Elizabeth Warren as a 'shutdown shield', doesn't change the fact that Hillary qualifies with or without said description of who would 'really' qualify for the presidency. Your argument is basically "I'm not being sexist about Hillary Clinton, my best friend is female!" Surely you can think of something better. Your statement is about as much of a shut down as Jeb trying to attack Trump.

As long as we are now moving away from, "you're against it because you're sexist", I couldn't give two shits about how qualified either of you think Hillary is. Personally, I think she's plenty qualified, but I'm not the one who made statement, yet I can still acknowledge the validity behind such a statement.

Apparently, you both failed to grasp the fact that Killer Mike was quoting a woman in an entirely different context than social justice. He brought up the point because the point of her gender WAS BROUGHT TO HIM and he offered his opinion on it. Trying to frame this as sexism was wholly disingenuous and intellectually dishonest.


EDIT:

And BTW, while both Hillary Clinton and Elizabeth Warren both have uteruses that don't automatically qualify them for president, Elizabeth Warren fits Killer Mike's criteria on social justice better than Hillary Clinton. Clearly, sexism couldn't be the reason that I or Killer Mike would think this.

Also, despite Obama's skin color not automatically qualifying him for president, I certainly think his congressional experience and political acumen would qualify him. Tell me how this is racist now?
 

User1608

Banned
I hate Bloomberg but if he doesn't doom me to hell I'll take it. He is such an asshole though. Brilliant, potentially, but an asshole.
 

daedalius

Member
So, using those PPP numbers, I did the math.

Assuming Hillary wins SC by the current average, and assuming Bernie wins NV by 2-5%, I wanted to see where the results would put us. I used PPPs numbers and gave each candidate the number of delegates they would earn based on finishing with that percentage of the vote.

However, I gave Bernie the benefit of the doubt, and assumed that every single undecided voter would go directly to him. (Which is not going to happen, but I wanted to give him the best case scenario).

Best case scenario, we'd be looking at

Hillary 920
Bernie 475

(That's the contest to date, including Super Delegates).

Without Supers, only pledged from Iowa through all the PPP states:

Hillary 558
Bernie 467

Now, a far more realistic scenario, in which the remaining voters break by current margins towards whomever is leading the state gives us the following rough estimates

Hillary 624
Bernie 397

With Supers

Hillary 1053
Bernie 380

Then we have Florida and Ohio coming up in March which would not bode well for Bernie at all, I wouldn't think. Even in the best case scenario, I just don't see where Bernie can make up 91 delegates. In the more realistic scenario, there is absolutely no way he can make up 227. Plus, he'd have no argument to make to the Supers to get them on his side.


****This was just strict proportional representation right down the middle. I didn't go into awards based on congressional districts or anything like that. ****

But my Facebook feed says they are in a DEAD HEAT
 

Holmes

Member
On undecideds, unless a particular candidate really shits the bed, they generally tend to either stay home or split right down in the middle, but in a landslide, they'll tend to go more towards the winner. Like in New Hampshire, obviously Sanders picked up most of the undecideds, and in South Carolina, Clinton will pick up most of them.
 

Jenov

Member
Except Hillary Clinton is qualified, because the qualification stated was "have policy reflective of social justice", and that's exactly what she has. You weren't reading my post, nor were you trying to look at the issue from a different perspective, you straight up just staked out a defensive position.

So the complaint boils down to "stop talking about your uterus, it doesn't qualify you for the presidency". The implication is that "women running for president should not talk about how they are women, as it's not really a qualification". I think it is, because the amount of shit women have to deal with being in the public sphere is far harsher and shittier than what any man has to deal with in the public sphere. The qualification of being a 'uterus' and getting to this stage is that said 'uterus' is tougher, stronger, and harder working than a penis candidate can claim to be.

Women get criticized for talking about being women, they get criticized for not talking about being women, they get criticized for talking too much or too little. There's no way out of it. And you're thinking about this with the idea that this is an "imaginary attack on women" when he specifically used a female body part to represent women? That the casual dropping of this is not sexist? That Hillary hasn't proven herself throughout all these decades, so she shouldn't sell her 'uterus' as an argument for her superior women's rights record? It's unconscious, it looks okay from a shallow analysis, but when you think about it, why isn't being a woman an argument for superior qualifications, especially now when women are still not equal to men? Why isn't being a woman at the presidential campaign level an example of willpower, endurance, and ability? Why isn't a female president a symbol of change? Why isn't a female candidate supposed to promote what her 'uterus' means for other 'uteri'? Why is this all discredited because the candidate is a woman that you or Killer Mike or Snowman don't support?

Oh right. Because she's Hillary Clinton and she's not Elizabeth Warren, so selectively "Hillary being a uterus" is not equal to "Elizabeth Warren being a woman".

You can try to use Elizabeth Warren as a 'shutdown shield', doesn't change the fact that Hillary qualifies with or without said description of who would 'really' qualify for the presidency. Your argument is basically "I'm not being sexist about Hillary Clinton, my best friend is female!" Surely you can think of something better. Your statement is about as much of a shut down as Jeb trying to attack Trump.

God damn, so much this. Thank you.

What Killer Mike said, or quoted, was some demeaning and sexist bullshit. Attempting to ignore Hillary's policy and distill her down to her fucking sex part, and yelling it to a crowd like it meant something. It's awful, and something I'm sure all the red-pillers on Reddit lapped up happily.

Why try and defend it, it was plain rude. If you have a problem with Hillary, then criticize her policy directly, don't try to deflect and yell about her fucking vagina.
 
God damn, so much this. Thank you.

What Killer Mike said, or quoted, was some demeaning and sexist bullshit. Attempting to ignore Hillary's policy and distill her down to her fucking sex part, and yelling it to a crowd like it meant something. It's awful, and something I'm sure all the red-pillers on Reddit lapped up happily.

Why try and defend it, it was plain rude. If you have a problem with Hillary, then criticize policy her directly, don't try to deflect and yell about her fucking vagina.

When people try to sit you down and tell you to vote for her because she's a woman, then your better believe that person has a right to bring up why they would disagree with that!


Had you actually accounted for the context surrounding the quote, you'd understand why he brought it up.
 

PBY

Banned
Feel like Jeb has to stop going at Trump. Its not happening Jeb. And by that token, Trump gotta chill and hit Rubot with the business now.
 
God damn, so much this. Thank you.

What Killer Mike said, or quoted, was some demeaning and sexist bullshit. Attempting to ignore Hillary's policy and distill her down to her fucking sex part, and yelling it to a crowd like it meant something. It's awful, and something I'm sure all the red-pillers on Reddit lapped up happily.

Why try and defend it, it was plain rude. If you have a problem with Hillary, then criticize policy her directly, don't try to deflect and yell about her fucking vagina.

A renowned feminist is not allowed to criticize a female candidate (or by extension close supporters) for making the case that her sex increases her electability? His mentioning it was to respond to certain peoples claim that women voting for Bernie are somehow betraying Feminism.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom