Support NeoGAF

[A Human Becoming]

The downplaying of the importance of foreign policy in that OT thread is amazingly ridiculous

Not coming from this Bernie supporter, the one who made the OT.

Also, I felt like this debate has solidified my opinion that Hilary would eat Rubio alive in a debate. Jeb, Christie, Kasich and even Cruz could at least challenge her, but Rubio would look like a boy in her presence.

(The last Republican debate really soured my opinion of Rubio's debate skills)

 

[East Lake]

The downplaying of the importance of foreign policy in that OT thread is amazingly ridiculous

Do you mean it's wrong to think it's not important in general or that you need to know all the details as a candidate?

 

[Kangi]

Not coming from this Bernie supporter, the one who made the OT.

Also, I felt like this debate has solidified my opinion that Hilary would eat Rubio alive in a debate. Jeb, Christie, Kasich and even Cruz could at least challenge her, but Rubio would look like a boy in her presence.

(The last Republican debate really soured my opinion of Rubio's debate skills)

Seeing how well she performs in these primary debates time and time again makes it scary to think of what happens when she takes her gloves off. She and Bernie are love tapping each other in comparison to what she would do with foam boy.

 

[Officerrob]

Not coming from this Bernie supporter, the one who made the OT.

Also, I felt like this debate has solidified my opinion that Hilary would eat Rubio alive in a debate. Jeb, Christie, Kasich and even Cruz could at least challenge her, but Rubio would look like a boy in her presence.

(The last Republican debate really soured my opinion of Rubio's debate skills)

I just don't get it. I'm pro Hillary, but like I said, I'm 100% team Bernie if he wins the nomination and will work for his campaign here in Virginia. What I saw tonight was absolutely shocking to me. Yes he was poor on foreign policy in previous debates, but tonight was almost Palinesque IMO.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Both? Well, all the details is probably excessive. No one expects him to best a former Sec State on foreign policy. But this isn't the first debate now, his answers just make it seem like he doesn't particularly care about it - and that's the generous interpretation.

And really it's a part of the job in which the President arguably has more discretion and can get more done.

 

[Allard]

The downplaying of the importance of foreign policy in that OT thread is amazingly ridiculous

Not following that OT thread much, but if there is one topic of debate that the commander and chief of the military should have a plan of some type, its foreign policy. I know its not his strongest focus especially not during the democratic primary, but it is the one substantive thing the president can influence that can bypass congress in most cases, that and judicial nominees. Going forward if he can't show doing homework on the subject and if he becomes the nominee in the GE he is going to get savaged for it. Its like the one thing that independents had held against Democratic candidates for years (for better or worse) that you have show some competency as a front much less as your job.

 

[AnotherNils]

Holy shit, Cruz can't weasel out of this now if true:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/cruz-carson-voice-mails

I don't see why this changes anything. Cruz already apologized. Politicians never apologize. He admitted guilt long ago

 

[A Human Becoming]

I just don't get it. I'm pro Hillary, but like I said, I'm 100% team Bernie if he wins the nomination and will work for his campaign here in Virginia. What I saw tonight was absolutely shocking to me. Yes he was poor on foreign policy in previous debates, but tonight was almost Palinesque IMO.

I wonder if O'Malley not being there made it more evident. He looked like a deer in headlights. Ugh!

 

[Teggy]

I don't see why this changes anything. Cruz already apologized. Politicians never apologize. He admitted guilt long ago

Yeah, he apologized, but I don't think people realized how scummy it was and now they can hear for themselves.

 

[East Lake]

Both? Well, all the details is probably excessive. No one expects him to best a former Sec State on foreign policy. But this isn't the first debate now, his answers just make it seem like he doesn't particularly care about it.

And really it's a part of the job in which the President arguably has more discretion and can get more done.

That's what advisors are for though. If I was going to weight my concern over FP it be 90% judgment, 10% knowing the details.

 

[Kangi]

I kind of missed O'Malley tonight. It just being the two of them does open the door for more contrast and more lively debates, but I miss watching him desperately vie for questions to come his way. Any time things got heated, he'd be there trying to mediate so he could awkwardly segue into a talking point.

R.I.P. Governor Abs "Government coming in your back door" O'Malley. May you one day find yourself in Hilldawg's cabinet.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I think Christie might be the worst person to debate Hillary on the Republican side.

Christie: "I will beat the shit of you, Hillary Rodman Clinton."

Hillary: "..."

Christie: "... That came out wrong, let me start again.... Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"

 

[shinra-bansho]

You have to have a cursory understanding of what's happening around you to judge anything. He didn't particularly display that tonight.

 

[Officerrob]

That's what advisors are for though. If I was going to weight my concern over FP it be 90% judgment, 10% knowing the details.

How do you make a proper judgment when you refuse to spend the time to understand what is going on?

 

[Iolo]

You have to have a cursory understanding of what's happening around you to judge anything. He didn't particularly display that tonight.

It would also be nice if he, say, actually got some advisors. At least one. That he talks to for more than an hour.

 

[East Lake]

You have to have a cursory understanding of what's happening around you to judge anything. He didn't particularly display that tonight.

For example?

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

For example?

Where he kept mentioning Syria and Jordan when asked a question about Afghanistan and the Taliban?

 

[Iolo]

For example?

Being sure of how many dictators run North Korea would be a good start. (it's one)

 

[DataStream]

Thought this was interesting, Warren criticizing Clinton in 2004 in regards to Wall Street lobbying corrupting her views.

 

[thezerofire]

Great debate. Though Hillary had a couple of overly heated moments, and I could hear the anguished cries of Bernie's campaign team when he kept getting asked foreign policy questions.

"No" was the best moment of the night. They both pushed that bait right back in MSNBC's faces, and that moment of her genuine smile could've ended the whole debate.

what happened with "No"? didn't get to watch

 

[Makai]

Being sure of how many dictators run North Korea would be a good start. (it's one)

I haven't seen the debate yet, but you sure he wasn't referring to the past dictators in the line of succession? There's only been three.

 

[shinra-bansho]

His answer on the AUMF 2001 and the current state of Afghanistan, his answer on relative threats; there was another question where he randomly pivoted back to Iraq.

On overall assessment of the segment on foreign policy his performance was quite awful. I don't think anyone watching that segment thought he came out of it well.

 

[A Human Becoming]

I haven't seen the debate yet, but you sure he wasn't referring to the past dictators in the line of succession? There's only been three.

I think it was just a flub. He corrected himself.

 

[The Technomancer]

what happened with "No"? didn't get to watch

The moderators brought up some small and technical thing about the internal file name of one of Bernie's campaign ads. When Clinton was asked if she'd like to comment she just said "no". It really wasn't worth dignifying with any time

 

[Iolo]

I haven't seen the debate yet, but you sure he wasn't referring to the past dictators in the line of succession? There's only been three.

he said something like "North Korea is run by a handful of dictators, or maybe one"

this was right after he was asked to rank North Korea, Russia and China in terms of threat priority, and answered "ISIS"

 

[Suikoguy]

Thought this was interesting, Warren criticizing Clinton in 2004 in regards to Wall Street lobbying corrupting her views.

Would be nice if it said what bill they are accusing her of changing her mind on.

 

[Officerrob]

What about when Chuck Todd was hitting him on his lack of foreign policy gravitas, and his reply was that he gave a speech at Georgetown once...

 

[Kangi]

what happened with "No"? didn't get to watch

The moderators started asking Hillary about her e-mails. They then asked Bernie about his stance on them, and he re-iterated that his stance is the same as it was in the first debate: that he would not politicize it.

He was then asked about issues within his campaign, including the data breach, impersonation of workers, and falsely claiming an endorsement was received by a newspaper(?). He talked about the first two and refuted the third, saying that their content never called it an endorsement, and the internal title labeling it as such wasn't meant to be shown publicly. The moderators asked Hillary if she would like thirty seconds to respond to his claims, clearly dangling bait for her to attack him over, and she returned the favor over the e-mails with a kind but firm, "...No."

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

I'd say both candidates did well tonight. I can see arguments for undecided voters to gravitate toward either, depending on their priorities.

 

[East Lake]

Where he kept mentioning Syria and Jordan when asked a question about Afghanistan and the Taliban?

I don't think there was anything particularly out there about that answer. Seemed like he was talking about general middle east policy.

 

[Iolo]

I found the transcript.

TODD: Alright, as Commander in Chief, Senator Sanders, you've got to prioritize potential threats to the United States. Three countries, North Korea, Iran, Russia. How would you rank them in order of their threat to America's security right now...

SANDERS: ... ISIS...

TODD: ... Starting with the biggest threat.

SANDERS: ISIS, you forgot one...

TODD: ... I didn't say that...

SANDERS: ... No, no...

TODD: ... No...

SANDERS: ... ISIS would be ...

TODD: ... We already had that. I'm talking about these three countries. How would you orient our national security, our national defense posture.

SANDERS: Clearly North Korea is a very strange situation because it is such an isolated country run by a handful of dictators, or maybe just one, who seems to be somewhat paranoid. And, who had nuclear weapons.

 

[Wilsongt]

PD's boy Snyder can't catch a break. Fucking up every way possible in Flint.

 

[Officerrob]

I found the transcript.

EVERYTHING from Bernie there is a mess

 

[Hexa]

I found the transcript.

Ouch. He needs to brush up on this A LOT.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

I found the transcript.

To be fair, I think he misunderstood the question at first. He answered pretty quickly once Chuck clarified. Although I'd disagree about North Korea being a big threat.

 

[Teggy]

It reads like he was trying to buzz in early to a Jeopardy question.

 

[shinra-bansho]

On further inspection the initial answer to the question about what he would do about Afghanistan is basically identical to his answer in the townhall yesterday on terrorism in general. King Abdullah and all.

I should note, I think Sanders is an intelligent person who could get up to speed on foreign policy; not to Clinton's level but enough that he should perform much better. But it baffles me that he hasn't.

 

[Iolo]

To be fair, I think he misunderstood the question at first. He answered pretty quickly once Chuck clarified. Although I'd disagree about North Korea being a big threat.

It's still a good idea to know how many dictators run North Korea, otherwise it makes it look like he doesn't care about foreign policy. He may be able to ignore it in the primary, but he's going to need intensive tutoring on this field unless Trump is somehow the nominee.

 

[CrimzonSamurai]

By "handful of dictators" I think he probably meant the credible theory that Kim Jong Un is just a public figurehead and that a few select military leaders are the ones actually ruling the country.

 

[East Lake]

I found the transcript.

It seems probable that he's only pointing out that ISIS is a larger threat than those three. And the dictators bit is either a flub or he's talking about how it's not clear who holds power in that country.

 

[Iolo]

By "handful of dictators" I think he probably meant the credible theory that Kim Jong Un is just a public figurehead and that a few select military leaders are the ones actually ruling the country.

That's a very charitable interpretation.

And ISIS is not a bigger threat than Russia, China or DPRK. That's a Republican talking point and Obama addressed it in the SOTU.

 

[East Lake]

That's a very charitable interpretation.

Not really, it would be almost impossible for someone in his position not to know about North Korea's leader.

 

[DataStream]

Would be nice if it said what bill they are accusing her of changing her mind on.

Probably this situation.

 

[danm999]

I'm going to assume Bernie is talking about how we really don't know a lot about how power is structured in North Korea and it might actually be a military junta with Kim Jong Un a puppet and we only get the full family tree when Dennis Rodman visits.

 

[CrimzonSamurai]

That's a very charitable interpretation.

And ISIS is not a bigger threat than Russia, China or DPRK. That's a Republican talking point and Obama addressed it in the SOTU.

Not really, it's a common theory as a reason for his swift transition to power after his father's death. The generals took control and then left him in place to maintain stability and avoid populist uprisings and the like.

https://news.vice.com/article/forme...ong-un-is-no-longer-in-control-of-north-korea

I'm not a Bernie supporter even but that's what I assumed he meant when he said that during the debate.

 

[RustyNails]

Kim Jong Un is probably executing some poor #2's right now because Bernie thought he was not the one true supreme ruler of Best Korea.

 

[UltimaPooh]

I'm going to assume Bernie is talking about how we really don't know a lot about how power is structured in North Korea and it might actually be a military junta with Kim Jong Un a puppet and we only get the full family tree when Dennis Rodman visits.

That's essentially what I understood as well... but we are in the years of the 24 hour news cycle... so it will be a sound bite.

The rest of the transcript was pretty off base though.

Something that I will admit, Bernie is weak on Foreign Policy... but I only think that's because people like to throw out middle east conflicts and other third world dictator ships as foreign policy... when it should be more about our relationships with our allies, and other super powers as well as foreign aid.

Also...

I think the reaction is negative because his foreign policy talk isn't as nuanced and well cited as his domestic discussion.

 

[East Lake]

You think Bernie remembers this talk he gave about NK in 2011? Maybe he forgot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msvp4yOpKtQ

 

[Suikoguy]

Probably this situation.

Thanks, that led me to another article on the issue:

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/08/08/clinton-and-the-bankruptcy-law/

It's not nearly as cut and dry, as I suspected.

 

[danm999]

I think the reaction is negative because his foreign policy talk isn't as nuanced and well cited as his domestic discussion.

It's negative because he's not prepared and it shows.