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PoliGAF 2016 |OT| Ask us about our performance with Latinos in Nevada

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J

jiggle

Member
Wall said:
Howard Dean went on to become the DNC chair. His 50 state strategy was a significant factor in the Democrats gaining the House and Senate in 2006. The organization he founded, Democracy for America, continues to be a force in grassroots Democratic politics, even if Dean himself moved on to other things.
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What's he up to now?
 
W

Wall

Member
sangreal said:
Howard Dean was great but I'm not sure what that has to do with my comment on his presidential campign and how it quickly fell apart after one bad loss (and an overblown awkward moment)

I doubt Bernie will even stay in the Democratic Party post-campaign so that is definitely not the comparison I was going for
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Presidential campaigns lead to influence beyond winning and losing. That was my point. Sanders has done far better than Dean did too. Sanders may or may not stay with the Democrats, and the Democrats may or may not have him, but the party would be for the worse if he leaves.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Glenn Beck has basically become Ted Cruz's hype man and is giving speeches at every Cruz event, this is fucking absurd.
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Why? We need Cruz to buttress Rubio as much as we can. If Glenn Beck is the one who can help him do it, more power to him. Frankly Cruz is the kingmaker this election. He makes or breaks Rubio.

Carson on the other hand
UCMcYrU.png
 
R

RedSwirl

Junior Member
One question I've been meaning to get out there:

Sanders' policies rely on things that people everywhere say are DOA in Congress. Sanders usually responds by saying Congress will for once be forced to listen to its constituents.

...how does he plan to accomplish that? Has Sanders laid that part out somewhere? I'm genuinely curious about this.
 
M

Makai

Member
RedSwirl said:
One question I've been meaning to get out there:

Sanders' policies rely on things that people everywhere say are DOA in Congress. Sanders usually responds by saying Congress will for once be forced to listen to its constituents.

...how does he plan to accomplish that? Has Sanders laid that part out somewhere? I'm genuinely curious about this.
Click to expand...
No plan. Shhh
 
M

Macho Madness

Member
RedSwirl said:
One question I've been meaning to get out there:

Sanders' policies rely on things that people everywhere say are DOA in Congress. Sanders usually responds by saying Congress will for once be forced to listen to its constituents.

...how does he plan to accomplish that? Has Sanders laid that part out somewhere? I'm genuinely curious about this.
Click to expand...
Sanders' basis relies on people turning out to support his policies, electing Senators and Representatives that support his policies. That's the Bernie Sanders revolution. I think it's great but realistically...
 
B

BoboBrazil

Member
RedSwirl said:
One question I've been meaning to get out there:

Sanders' policies rely on things that people everywhere say are DOA in Congress. Sanders usually responds by saying Congress will for once be forced to listen to its constituents.

...how does he plan to accomplish that? Has Sanders laid that part out somewhere? I'm genuinely curious about this.
Click to expand...

shhh no details, only revolutions now
 
D

Drakeon

Member
RedSwirl said:
One question I've been meaning to get out there:

Sanders' policies rely on things that people everywhere say are DOA in Congress. Sanders usually responds by saying Congress will for once be forced to listen to its constituents.

...how does he plan to accomplish that? Has Sanders laid that part out somewhere? I'm genuinely curious about this.
Click to expand...

He would need historic turnout to turn that into a reality (so that he could get both the house and Senate), but he has yet to display he can inspire that turnout. There's also the problem that some of his proposals would be dead on arrival even with Democrats in charge. Pelosi has said that Medicare for all would never pass even with a democratic congress.
 
B

BoboBrazil

Member
OrangeGrayBlue said:
For what it's worth, Hillary "racial justice will be the mission of my presidency" Clinton doesn't have much detail in terms of getting her plans through congress either. I don't see how either candidate has an advantage there.
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Atleast she's telling people that they have to go out and vote in down ticket races. Bernie just yells about a revolution.
 
W

Wall

Member
RedSwirl said:
One question I've been meaning to get out there:

Sanders' policies rely on things that people everywhere say are DOA in Congress. Sanders usually responds by saying Congress will for once be forced to listen to its constituents.

...how does he plan to accomplish that? Has Sanders laid that part out somewhere? I'm genuinely curious about this.
Click to expand...

To answer seriously:

Sanders's plan relies on two strategies:

First, increase voter turnout among disengaged voters using bold but simple messaging targeting their economic needs because higher turnout favors Democrats for a number of reasons. Second, keep his grassroots campaign activated after the general election to pressure congress to support his policies.

I don't think the country is yet at point where a plan like that can succeed. The poor turnout to Democratic primaries and caucuses compared to 2008 indicates this to me.

What Sanders really seems to be trying to build is the equivalent of what movement conservatism was for the Republicans.
 
Z

Ziltoidia 9

Member
RedSwirl said:
One question I've been meaning to get out there:

Sanders' policies rely on things that people everywhere say are DOA in Congress. Sanders usually responds by saying Congress will for once be forced to listen to its constituents.

...how does he plan to accomplish that? Has Sanders laid that part out somewhere? I'm genuinely curious about this.
Click to expand...

I'd assume it would be apart of the revolution aspect of it, which is mocked by Hillary supporters, which is ironic because to get back house/senate, it needs to take one. It starts with getting democrat state legislative majority in the states, so they districts can be redrawn in 2020. For now the districts are drawn to what the GOP wanted in the midterms of 2010. Apart of the reason why citizens united is such a big deal is because now people can spend basically limitless in even local elections, so a business can target districts and flip a states legislator to republican pretty easily. At least its that way here in texas
 
J

JesseEwiak

Member
OrangeGrayBlue said:
For what it's worth, Hillary "racial justice will be the mission of my presidency" Clinton doesn't have much detail in terms of getting her plans through congress either. I don't see how either candidate has an advantage there.
Click to expand...

You can change a lot with the Justice Depatment or HUD or various other Cabinet departments through who you appoint to various positions. Changing the tax rate or reinstating Glass Steagal or instituting single payer takes an act of Congress.
 
D

danm999

Member
A statistic I always find chilling. Congress has like an 11% approval rating.

The rate of encumbents getting re-elected tends to be around 90%.
 
O

OrangeGrayBlue

Member
BoboBrazil said:
Atleast she's telling people that they have to go out and vote in down ticket races. Bernie just yells about a revolution.
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If you can tell me how Bernie is being dishonest when he says that bringing about the change he advocates for requires a groundswell of people to become engaged and stay engaged in the political process, I'm all ears. Whether that's happening or not, he's been completely forthcoming about what's required.
 
J

johnsmith

remember me
RedSwirl said:
One question I've been meaning to get out there:

Sanders' policies rely on things that people everywhere say are DOA in Congress. Sanders usually responds by saying Congress will for once be forced to listen to its constituents.

...how does he plan to accomplish that? Has Sanders laid that part out somewhere? I'm genuinely curious about this.
Click to expand...

I posted about this yesterday. He is completely delusional.

Assuming, you know, Republicans still control one or, you know, frighteningly, two bodies of the Congress.
What we do is you put an issue before Congress, let’s just use free tuition at public colleges and universities, and that vote is going to take place on November 8 ... whatever it may be. We tell millions and millions of people, young people and their parents, there is going to be a vote ... half the people don’t know what’s going on ... but we tell them when the vote is, maybe we welcome a million young people to Washington, D.C. to say hello to their members of Congress. Maybe we have the telephones and the e-mails flying all over the place so that everybody in America will know how their representative is voting. [...]

And then Republicans are going to have to make a decision. Then they’re going to have to make a decision. You know, when thousands of young people in their district are saying, “You vote against this, you’re out of your job, because we know what’s going on.” So this gets back to what a political revolution is about, is bringing people in touch with the Congress, not having that huge wall. That’s how you bring about change.
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http://www.dailykos.com/stories/201...Bernie-Sanders-wins-the-White-House-Then-what
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...olitical-revolution+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
 
M

Macho Madness

Member
Ziltoidia 9 said:
I'd assume it would be apart of the revolution aspect of it, which is mocked by Hillary supporters, which is ironic because to get back house/senate, it needs to take one. It starts with getting democrat state legislative majority in the states, so they districts can be redrawn in 2020. For now the districts are drawn to what the GOP wanted in the midterms of 2010. Apart of the reason why citizens united is such a big deal is because now people can spend basically limitless in even local elections, so a business can target districts and flip a states legislator to republican pretty easily. At least its that way here in taxes.
Click to expand...
I hope the Democratic Party is ready for that fight, but even more importantly districts need to be non partisan. Even Republican voters are for it. A movement should be started for that.
 
J

JesseEwiak

Member
danm999 said:
A statistic I always find chilling. Congress has like an 11% approval rating.

The rate of encumbents getting re-elected tends to be around 90%.
Click to expand...

"Congress sucks, but my guy hates the other side, so he's A-OK!"

Which is actually kind of true. I like the Democratic representative in Congress for the most part. I hope they all get reelected. Just like I'm sure all the Republican's in Oklahoma or Kentucky like their Congresspeople.

I hope the Democratic Party is ready for that fight, but even more importantly districts need to be non partisan. Even Republican voters are for it. A movement should be started for that.
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My fear is we'll end up with fair commissions in currently Democratic gerrymandered states like Illinois and Maryland while Republican's stand firm and distort states like Texas, Pennsylvania, and North Carolina even further because nobody is going to vote for a godless Democrat or an abortion hating Republican (depending on your own personal politics) simply because they're good on redistricting.
 
C

Cat

Member
Hey PoliGAF, what's up? I lurk here and don't post much but have been lurking even more with the general election this year.

Are there any concerns on voter turnout if the presidential nominees end up being Trump and Clinton? Like...could a usually blue white state suddenly go red with white racists pumped that much to vote Trump? I know the Democratic primaries/caucuses have had considerably lower turnout compared to Republicans, but I don't know if that's par for the course or not.
 
W

Wall

Member
It would take a political realignment for the Democrats to recapture the House. Right now, nobody in the party has put forth a serious plan for accomplishing such a feat or even indicated much interested in trying.

As for advocating for down-ticket races, I think it goes both ways. I know its a primary and Sanders came in as a outsider, but the response from the party elite to the Sanders campaign is basically: drop dead fucker. That's not much of an invitation to cooperate.

Even the very limited reforms Howard Dean tried to institute were met with stiff resistance from party leadership. The only reason he got as far as he did was probably because of the failure of Kerry campaign. And Dean was and is, truth be told, very much to right of where Sanders is.
 
O

OrangeGrayBlue

Member
JesseEwiak said:
You can change a lot with the Justice Depatment or HUD or various other Cabinet departments through who you appoint to various positions. Changing the tax rate or reinstating Glass Steagal or instituting single payer takes an act of Congress.
Click to expand...

So does improving Obamacare, enacting stricter gun control and expanding social security.
 
J

JesseEwiak

Member
Wall said:
It would take a political realignment for the Democrats to recapture the House. Right now, nobody in the party has put forth a serious plan for accomplishing such a feat or even indicated much interested in trying.

As for advocating for down-ticket races, I think it goes both ways. I know its a primary and Sanders came in as a outsider, but the response from the party elite to the Sanders campaign is basically: drop dead fucker. That's not much of an invitation to cooperate.

Even the very limited reforms Howard Dean tried to institute were met with stiff resistance from party leadership. The only reason he got as far as he did was probably because of the failure of Kerry campaign. And Dean was and is, truth be told, very much to right of where Sanders is.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry that Bernie needs a red carper rollout to help elect the very Democrat's he'll need to do anything in Congress. What does he want to do the very minimum that's required of any Presidential nominee - a freakin' cookie?

So does improving Obamacare, enacting stricter gun control and expanding social security.
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Sure, but you specifically mentioned racial justice, where a lot can be done via the Executive. Obviously, any changes to the underlying welfare state will need a Democratic Congress.
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
OrangeGrayBlue said:
For what it's worth, Hillary "racial justice will be the mission of my presidency" Clinton doesn't have much detail in terms of getting her plans through congress either. I don't see how either candidate has an advantage there.
Click to expand...
It's a valid point. Although, she is doing more towards fundraising that won't just be for her presidential bid, which is frankly more likely to aid in the downticket revolution.

I'd say her experience in the previous administration will help in terms of knowing how to effectively wield executive power, while fully expecting legislative deadlock. (Coupled with what seems like an innate thirst for details and interest in policy.)
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
Cat said:
Hey PoliGAF, what's up? I lurk here and don't post much but have been lurking even more with the general election this year.

Are there any concerns on voter turnout if the presidential nominees end up being Trump and Clinton? Like...could a usually blue white state suddenly go red with white racists pumped that much to vote Trump? I know the Democratic primaries/caucuses have had considerably lower turnout compared to Republicans, but I don't know if that's par for the course or not.
Click to expand...

Dem's comparatively low turnout is due mostly to increased media focus on the Republican side of things due to the Spectacular Trumptini's Travel Circus of Wonders and Racism. It doesn't necessarily reflect the general election.

There's basically 0 chance of a solid blue flipping to a red (or vice versa) in one election at this point, people are too ingrained for that. Also, any surge amongst white racists would be blocked by people who really fucking hate Trump, of which there are... rather a lot.

As for Hillary depressing turnout, the numbers don't actually back that up. Her supporters are generally more enthusiastic than Bernie's, and the party split isn't nearly so bad as in 08 (where it still had a negligible effect). She's fine on that front.

GnawtyDog said:
Liking the chatter about the public-option in the ACA from HillDawg. Bernie will always be a net plus in this race.
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Hopefully.
 
W

Wall

Member
JesseEwiak said:
I'm sorry that Bernie needs a red carper rollout to help elect the very Democrat's he'll need to do anything in Congress. What does he want to do the very minimum that's required of any Presidential nominee - a freakin' cookie?.
Click to expand...

I don't know. I'll ask him the next time I see him.

Edit: Seriously, you guys personalize this too much. The Democrats clearly aren't interested in helping him, so why should he help them at this point?
 
O

Officerrob

Banned
Wall said:
I don't know. I'll ask him the next time I see him.

Edit: Seriously, you guys personalize this too much. The Democrats clearly aren't interested in helping him, so why should he help them at this point?
Click to expand...

Because he needs them for any kind of "revolution"
 
C

Cat

Member
Poodlestrike said:
Dem's comparatively low turnout is due mostly to increased media focus on the Republican side of things due to the Spectacular Trumptini's Travel Circus of Wonders and Racism. It doesn't necessarily reflect the general election.

There's basically 0 chance of a solid blue flipping to a red (or vice versa) in one election at this point, people are too ingrained for that. Also, any surge amongst white racists would be blocked by people who really fucking hate Trump, of which there are... rather a lot.

As for Hillary depressing turnout, the numbers don't actually back that up. Her supporters are generally more enthusiastic than Bernie's, and the party split isn't nearly so bad as in 08 (where it still had a negligible effect). She's fine on that front.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your response; I really appreciate it.
 
W

Wall

Member
Well, we'll see after the primary is over. At the very least, I fully expect Sanders to endorse Clinton if she wins and tell his supporters to vote for her. He has indicated he would do that. As for what happens after the election is over, who knows. Personally, I think he'll support the Democrats who are supportive of the things he supports.
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
If Bernie forcing Hillary to the left on the economy and on expanded Obamacare while strengthening her (supposed) commitments to racial justice and equality is the only thing he actually accomplishes in this election where she was always going to win ... then his candidacy will have been a major, major success.
 
Q

QuiteWhittle

Member
Wall said:
I don't know. I'll ask him the next time I see him.

Edit: Seriously, you guys personalize this too much. The Democrats clearly aren't interested in helping him, so why should he help them at this point?
Click to expand...

If he thinks McConnell and Ryan will be more accommodating towards his agenda, then he shouldn't.
 
W

Wall

Member
QuiteWhittle said:
If he thinks McConnell and Ryan will be more accommodating towards his agenda, then he shouldn't.
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I can't read minds, but I can still guarantee you that he doesn't think that. If he did, I don't think he'd be telling his supporters to vote for Democrats in the general.

Most everyone participating in the primary can see that the Democrats are to left of the Republicans and closer to what Sanders envisions.
 
C

Cerium

Member
Cruz is now running hard to the right of Trump on immigration.

Ted Cruz would use Immigration and Customs Enforcement to search for and ultimately help deport 12 million immigrants in the U.S. illegally if elected president.

In an interview with Bill O’Reilly on Fox News Monday night, the Texas senator said that he would use ICE as part of broader federal efforts to deport those who are not in the country legally, representing a significant shift in his immigration policy.

“Federal law requires that anyone here illegally that’s apprehended should be deported,” Cruz said.

“Would you look for them, though?” O’Reilly asked.

“Bill, of course you would,” Cruz said. “That’s what ICE exists for. We have law enforcement who looks for people who are violating the law and deports them.”

Cruz also took a shot at Donald Trump, who is leading him in Nevada, which votes on Tuesday, and in most states voting on Super Tuesday next week.

“Donald said once he deports them, he’ll let them back in as citizens,” Cruz said. “I will not.”
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D

danm999

Member
That Cruz-O'Reilly interview seems to me like O'Reilly was pulling him there and Cruz was desperate to be talking about anything else.
 
T

Teggy

Member
So Willie D of the Geto Boys did an interview about how Cruz used one of their songs in anti-Hillary ad without permission:

He said, “I just don’t see how this guy could be emotional or empathetic towards anybody because I don’t believe he’s all the way human. I don’t even think the dude has a heart.” He continued, “I think he’s the Tin Man. I don’t think he has a heart. He’s a self-aggrandizing, insufferable douchebag.”
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Whoa man, tell me how you really feel XD
 
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