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PoliGAF 2016 |OT| Ask us about our performance with Latinos in Nevada

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neurosisxeno

Member
Black Mamba said:
The funny part about the whole "obama compromised too much" aspect is that if you ask any conservative, they will swear to you that Obama is the most uncompromising President in history, that he tried to ram an ultra liberal agenda on the country, and that he refuses to listen to the people.
Click to expand...

Conservatives since Reagan had basically been playing all or nothing, if they don't get everything they want it's because the Democrats are too rigid--not because their demands are bullshit.
 
O

OrangeGrayBlue

Member
shinra-bansho said:
It looks like something some crazed Redditor would have put together.
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aspiegamer said:
You make it sound so crude! The campaign would call it "connecting with the base."
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As a matter of fairness, that post looks like a direct response to an earlier tweet from Hillary's camp:

CaUjMJAWYAEZLZ_.png:large



That said, twitter fights are dumb and only rile up the uglier parts of each others' bases.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
Makai said:
Morning Consult 1/29 - 2/1
Trump 41
Cruz 12
Carson 9
Rubio 8
Bush 7

Morning Consult 2/2-2/23
Trump 38
Cruz 14
Rubio 12
Carson 9
Bush 5
Click to expand...

That's fucking stable


In "Republicans are douchebags" news:

Mike Memoli
‏@mikememoli
.@marcorubio refers to @POTUS' visit to mosque, says latest example of his "constant pitting people against each other. I can’t stand that"
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Eat a bag of dicks, Marco.
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
I imagine it's because Reagan/President Ford -> President Carter; and President Carter/Kennedy -> President Reagan.
Even though reality probably isn't that simple. No one wants the L.

And really, if it was such a good idea, Sanders probably should have primaried Obama in '12.
 
O

OrangeGrayBlue

Member
Black Mamba said:
Eat a bag of dicks, Marco.
Click to expand...

Seriously.

Maybe if the republican party didn't react with hostility to the idea that minority groups have issues specific to minority groups, they wouldn't think of it as "pitting people against each other."


This is exactly why no one in the GOP is winning the presidency. The ozarks of Arkansas and deepest crevices of Appalachia will only net you so many votes.
 
C

Cesare Borgia

Banned
A Human Becoming said:
Parts of that sound so similar to debates this cycle. Some things don't change I guess.
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I'd disagree. I don't think Sanders has been nearly as aggressive as he needs to be. Folks should go back and watch the very first 08 debate where everyone was piling on Hillary. Or the GOP 2012 debates where everyone piled on Romney. Sanders has not done that and seems unwilling to be aggressive unless it's on twitter. Nor has he done much challenging of Hillary. O'Malley was more direct in his attacks.

You can run a positive campaign while also challenging your opponent. I thought Obama did a pretty damn good job of appearing positive while constantly grinding Hillary down with indirect ("this is more of the same politics of the past") and direct (the Walmart attack, Iraq, etc) attacks. Hillary became frustrated, Bill was frustrated, etc and it led to the media magnifying various attacks she was making while ignoring Obama's.

Cruz is doing the same thing to Trump, and it's pretty entertaining. Trump lashes out, Cruz laughs it off before striking. I think it's clear Hillary wants to really go after Sanders. He should pick a fight and then take the high road. The media will side with him.
 
Q

QuiteWhittle

Member
neurosisxeno said:
It's very rarely even attempted--because the person attempting usually gets beaten into submission by the party.
Click to expand...

But when it does happen it almost always results in a loss.

Taft v Roosevelt = Democrat win
Ford v Reagan = Democrat win
Carter v Kennedy = Republican win
Bush v Buchanan = Democrat win

shinra-bansho is probably right, all of these incumbents had their issues to begin with, but it still doesn't set an encouraging historical precedent.
 
O

OrangeGrayBlue

Member
Cesare Borgia said:
I'd disagree. I don't think Sanders has been nearly as aggressive as he needs to be. Folks should go back and watch the very first 08 debate where everyone was piling on Hillary. Or the GOP 2012 debates where everyone piled on Romney. Sanders has not done that and seems unwilling to be aggressive unless it's on twitter. Nor has he done much challenging of Hillary. O'Malley was more direct in his attacks.

You can run a positive campaign while also challenging your opponent. I thought Obama did a pretty damn good job of appearing positive while constantly grinding Hillary down with indirect ("this is more of the same politics of the past") and direct (the Walmart attack, Iraq, etc) attacks. Hillary became frustrated, Bill was frustrated, etc and it led to the media magnifying various attacks she was making while ignoring Obama's.

Cruz is doing the same thing to Trump, and it's pretty entertaining. Trump lashes out, Cruz laughs it off before striking. I think it's clear Hillary wants to really go after Sanders. He should pick a fight and then take the high road. The media will side with him.
Click to expand...

I think we're entering a more aggressive phase of the campaigns. Sanders knows he has to make serious progress in a lot of states, and Hillary has only recently taken Bernie seriously. She went a long time without even mentioning him by name. I think the townhall tonight and debate tomorrow will show a lot more urgency from both candidates.
 
D

danm999

Member
neurosisxeno said:
It's from 2011, at that time a lot of people were questioning Obama's Progressive Credentials because as you said he had let a lot of people down. If anything I think Sanders' was trying to go for 2 birds with those comments--that Obama had disappointed on the "expectations vs reality" front, and that he thinks a major issue is the lack of competition within the party. For the latter, it's assumed a sitting President will always get their run for the second term, but why? What if they are inept? There should always be competition for the highest office in the world, and even more so for lower positions within the Federal Government--this Senators sitting for 20-30+ years bullshit is nonsense.
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Sanders isn't making those arguments though about no ability to remove inept candidates. He's implying Obama isn't a progressive because he isn't passing progressive legislation. But he knows better.
 
N

neurosisxeno

Member
danm999 said:
He's implying Obama isn't a progressive because he isn't passing progressive legislation. But he knows better.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree. Sanders' should have known Obama probably wanted to pass things like UHC but had no chance of getting the votes.

EDIT: Is Trump the only candidate consistently streaming all of his speeches on YouTube? I see like 1 every other day, but for Sanders and Clinton almost never.
 
S

Spoiled Milk

Banned
kirblar said:
It's a sign that the left is about to start running into the polarization problem that's crippling the right. :-/
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This. The Left is swelling with a short-sighted populism and convincing itself that Hillary Clinton is a DINO. Sanders is the savior that will somehow revolutionize all of American politics and quickly establish social parity with (successful) European socialist countries (never mind the not-so-successful ones). All proponents of the contrary are wrong, evil, or "have no faith".

I think the most dangerous thing about the Sanders movement is that a lot of people are unaware that Hillary Clinton is equatable to Bernie Sanders on most issues, and when he loses, they will polarize themselves further out of resentment to the establishment. That might mean less Democratic voters, or that might just mean that people who don't normally vote anyway are not going to vote.

http://cognoscenti.wbur.org/2016/02/02/bernie-sanders-rich-barlow

Makai said:
Debate lineup is almost certainly

Trump
Cruz
Rubio
Jeb
Kasich
Christie

Ben getting kicked off!
Click to expand...
Um, I think they want the candidate over *there*. *points at Rubio*
 
H

HylianTom

Banned
neurosisxeno said:
I don't disagree. Sanders' should have known Obama probably wanted to pass things like UHC but had no chance of getting the votes.

EDIT: Is Trump the only candidate consistently streaming all of his speeches on YouTube? I see like 1 every other day, but for Sanders and Clinton almost never.
Click to expand...

I think Bernie streams his, but I'm not sure to be honest. I've only ever seen Trump's.

By the way: tonight is Trump's rally, suspiciously located in Arkansas.

Here's the YouTube stream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZDB1sYL-f8

Does anyone know where Huckabee is tonight?
 
V

VendettaRed07

Member
Black Mamba said:
The funny part about the whole "obama compromised too much" aspect is that if you ask any conservative, they will swear to you that Obama is the most uncompromising President in history, that he tried to ram an ultra liberal agenda on the country, and that he refuses to listen to the people.

funny stuff that politics. No wonder Obama has aged so fucking much. Even without the international issues, his soul aged 35 years the past 7.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and that's why Trump's " Make America Great Again" tag line has worked with so many people. They believe that Barack Obama has won. He's defeated the Republican Party and changed America forever. Not even a majority in the house and the senate has been able to stop him. This hatred of the Republican establishment comes from them feeling like Obama has slain everyone in Washington who has opposed him
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
On further thought... on the one hand, bubble boy can rot for all I care.

On the other, I'm not sure how thrilled I am with being gay being used as a punchline or a negative slander*... :/

*Even though I realise this would only be a bad thing to the hard religious right GOP voters.
 
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