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[DontBeThatGuy]

I'm convinced if Democrats are to get those white voters back(or for the first time), they need stop talking about issues of race, that's the reality we're dealing with here. It's not surprise Obama never really made it a pivotal aspect of his platform when running for President. You have to coddle them with this shit.

 

[Jooney]

What do you guys think of the value attributed to debates going forward? This is the first election that I know of where there was a clear "perceived winner" in all three debates but it obviously wasn't enough to cement an enduring lead to the election.

Just another failure of data in this election. Christ.

 

[thepotatoman]

Should I be heartened by the fact that the Republicans don't have a supermajority in the Senate?

Don't rely on it.

We'll have to wait and see if the republicans nuke the filibuster, but I think they certainly will.

 

[FiggyCal]

Wouldn't be surprised if the 2020 nominee is someone no one is talking about. To me the entire point of confidence about the democrat bench was the fact that the candidates could stew for 4-8 years as demographics shifted. Kamala Harris is a great talent, and the type of candidate that would have made sense in the future. Bumping her up to 2020 when she'll still be a junior senator from a liberal state...I don't buy it.

Booker is a joke, but as this election proved sometimes people fall for those.

Gillibrand is a pro Wall St senator from New York. We tried that already, no thanks.

I'm not seeing it, fellas. Rewind back to November/December 2012: who would have guessed Trump, Kasich, and Cruz would be the last three republicans standing this year? I would have bet on Cruz, Walker, and...I'm not sure. All I know is that if this year taught us anything it's that the primaries are a process that should be respected and fought over by a healthy group of candidates. You let the process play out and go from there. Which is why whoever the NAACP, Planned Parenthood, etc starts praising in 2019 probably won't be worth your time. Or the person that all the cool bloggers start cosigning early with bullshit stories they receive directly from the DNC or the campaign.

I'm not sure what you're referring to in the last sentence. Bernie Sanders?

 

[The Technomancer]

I can. Trump's missing white voters all came from districts that already voted R. Live by the gerrymander, die by the gerrymander.

Which raises the specter of 2018 again: with the seats we grabbed last night, how many more in 2018 are even going to be available

 

[metalslimer]

I didn't even think what would happen if they nuked the filibuster. Just carte blanche straight for 4 years. Any legislation they want if he manages to replace a liberal on the court there will be no stopping him.

 

[mo60]

Nothing about this election makes sense

Yeah. TX, AZ and GA were also signficantly less republican then the nation compared to 2008 and 2012 which is insane.

 

[Black Mamba]

How can anyone be certain warren would win? Another old ne liberal with little charisma.

Obama and bill clinton where immensely charismatic in an election during a recession!

What evidence do we have that warren or biden or sanders would have made a difference? Maybe they would have won. I wish we can go back and rerun it to see. But we can't.

I don't know the answer. No one does. There no evidence one way or the other.

 

[Oblivion]

The dem winning the NC governorship is pretty pointless though, isn't it? I mean, with Republicans having supermajorities in the legislature, this guy ain't gonna be able to do shit.

 

[Officerrob]

I think we have to question whether policy actually matters in elections. At least the high profile ones.

I made the argument earlier today that at the presidential level, charisma has been the deciding factor going back decades. Policy is for Governors and Senators

 

[VendettaRed07]

Don't rely on it.

We'll have to wait and see if the republicans nuke the filibuster, but I think they certainly will.

I'd have to imagine, considering how divisive Trump is, there will be senators who refuse to do it considering what it will mean and look like.

Lindsay Graham is gonna save our asses

 

[StopMakingSense]

Comedy Jerry Brown 2020 suggestion.

 

[Voysa Reezun]

Yeah. TX, AZ and GA were also signficantly less republican then the nation compared to 2008 and 2012 which is insane.

We just haven't quite got the population shift that we need to flip them, but we lost the Midwest already.

But man, if that were the issue, I wish I just had to deal with Jeb! as the result. I can deal with tax-cutting neocons.

 

[B-Dubs]

I'd have to imagine, considering how divisive Trump is, there will be senators who refuse to do it considering what it will mean and look like.

Lindsay Graham is gonna save our asses

If Blanche is the one who saves us all I promise I will retire my southern belle for all eternity.

 

[Suikoguy]

We're still doing this?

When it fits, it fits.

 

[The Technomancer]

Don't rely on it.

We'll have to wait and see if the republicans nuke the filibuster, but I think they certainly will.

I have to wonder if the house pickups and the senate scare them. If they have any sense at all they'll realize that a 2018 wave is just probable enough that nuking the fillibuster might actually fuck them in 4 years

So its a question of if the greedier or more canny factions of the GOP have control

 

[Trouble]

I made the argument earlier today that at the presidential level, charisma has been the deciding factor going back decades. Policy is for Governors and Senators

And the national electorate seems to have the memory span of a goldfish.

 

[FiggyCal]

How can anyone be certain warren would win? Another old ne liberal with little charisma.

Obama and bill clinton where immensely charismatic in an election during a recession!

What evidence do we have that warren or biden or sanders would have made a difference? Maybe they would have won. I wish we can go back and rerun it to see. But we can't.

I don't know the answer. No one does. There no evidence one way or the other.

Elizabeth Warren has a ton of charisma. And anyways she's more likeable then our last female candidate.

 

[jtb]

How can anyone be certain warren would win? Another old ne liberal with little charisma.

Obama and bill clinton where immensely charismatic in an election during a recession!

What evidence do we have that warren or biden or sanders would have made a difference? Maybe they would have won. I wish we can go back and rerun it to see. But we can't.

I don't know the answer. No one does. There no evidence one way or the other.

It's all counterfactuals at this point.

Would Warren as VP brought the Obama coalition and Bernie voters home? Or would they have simply viewed her as a sell-out? Who knows.

Warren is very charismatic though. She has a message. Hillary never had a message, just an anti-message. You just needed a point to flip this election. Just one fucking point. Gah.

 

[BadRNG]

Never felt like this before, just how much realistic damage could Trump do? Repealing ACA alone will hurt me personally, I seriously need that pre-existing condition clause, but that's probably a drop in the bucket at what he could do.

I considered getting the hell out of this country but it's not like I can afford that either. Scary times.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

I'd have to imagine, considering how divisive Trump is, there will be senators who refuse to do it considering what it will mean and look like.

Lindsay Graham is gonna save our asses

I hope some of these people can see the fabric of the constitution coming apart and stop it.

My question is the cross hairs are all on them now, when anything happens it should affect down ticket in the future is the DNC going to be ready to strike?

 

[Wilsongt]

Policy question: Obama's new overtime rules that go into effect next month: Do you think they are going to stay or get thrown out?

 

[Kusagari]

Yeah. TX, AZ and GA were also signficantly less republican then the nation compared to 2008 and 2012 which is insane.

Because minorities turned out.

The states that are shocking us are the ones where the white moderates are a major block and they repudiated Hillary across the board.

 

[Crocodile]

I'm convinced if Democrats are to get those white voters back(or for the first time), they need stop talking about issues of race, that's the reality we're dealing with here. It's not surprise Obama never really made it a pivotal aspect of his platform when running for President. You have to coddle them with this shit.

That might be necessary but be be aware that will be taking a big shit on all PoC and a step back for intersetionality. Minority turnout could/will be affected.

 

[Poodlestrike]

They can't repeal ACA without replacing it or dismantling it slowly. It's too ingrained into the system. Well, I guess they technically can, but to actually implement such a repeal would be close to impossible.

If they hard line repealed it, instantly, it would send shockwaves through the healthcare industry. Millions losing their insurance over night. Premiums would explode. It would be a disaster.

You assume they care. The defining traits of Republicans is shortsightedness and a total absence of empathy. Remember the "suing Saudi Arabia" thing? They're children, except they can't learn that putting your hand on the stove is a bad idea, and they delight in shoving entire groups of people onto that stove on the regular.

Real talk do we think Kamala, Warren or Gilibrand are viable when gender seems to have worked against Hillary in this election?

Gender seems to have had a fairly minimal factor in terms of voting, at least. Coverage, though...

Honestly, I don't think sexism was any kind of deciding factor.

Clinton's brand, right or wrong as it might be, was far more detrimental.

This.

Dems can't stop any federal appointments anymore, but I hope they can at least obstruct the fuck out of every nominee.

We'd need some kind of way of making people actually give a fuck about hearings for that to do any good. I don't see how.

Democrats have always had an edge in celebrity power, maybe we can actually harness that somehow. I just don't know.

 

[whyamihere]

Hey guys, a lot of finger pointing going around. I think that's fair, but also not what we need on the left.

We won the popular vote. There are more of us. We will win next time. And I earnestly believe that there are enough forces at work not to completely destroy every single one of our institutions that we have and that there will be midterms and an election in 2020.

There are good things that came from last night. Maggie Hassan. Catherine Cortez Masto. Tammy Duckworth. These are people who are going to be huge players in the coming years.

Things are about to get bad. But we can't let that get us down. There's no point in focusing blame on last night when we need to do everything we can to make sure that 2020 we fuck shit up.

 

[BiggNife]

How can anyone be certain warren would win? Another old ne liberal with little charisma.

Obama and bill clinton where immensely charismatic in an election during a recession!

What evidence do we have that warren or biden or sanders would have made a difference? Maybe they would have won. I wish we can go back and rerun it to see. But we can't.

I don't know the answer. No one does. There no evidence one way or the other.

Warren has plenty of charisma and with Trump's spending plans we're heading towards another recession. The pieces are in place,

 

[Deleted member 231381]

The issue is that some of the things some of them are saying or doing are racist. How do you play around that while at the same time not piss off minorities? Shoving BLM or immigration reform in a box is a good way to get depressed AA or Hispanic votes.

Do we care? Clinton talked about racial rights more than she talked about the economic issues and she just lost, big league. The black American and Hispanic vote - they're not the winning votes anywhere except like Florida, maybe, and even then Clinton lost despite good black and Hispanic turnout there.

I care about these issues and they'd be a top priority if I actually took governance, but I wouldn't ever put them front and centre as a Dem candidate in my campaigns. I think we need to be blunt about this: Obama did well because he won poor white votes at a much higher rate than Clinton. The black American vote was impressive and a milestone in American history, but... what states were won through it that wouldn't otherwise have been won?

 

[Trouble]

One other gleam of hope is that Trump will likely easily get an infrastructure spending bill passed.

 

[nature boy]

And Michigan was lost by 13.000 votes.

FUCK

 

[bplewis24]

Some info on progressive referendums nationwide:

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/9/13572368/marijuana-guns-minimum-wage-election-2016

While Democrats lost big, liberals won some of the big initiatives that were on statewide ballots. It wasn’t a total sweep — several states, for example, affirmed the death penalty — but there were gains on some issues, including marijuana legalization, minimum wage, and gun control.

The full results paint a much more mixed picture than the top-ballot results suggest: The Democratic Party got clobbered, but some of the major policies Democrats support also won big.

This obviously flies in the face of the narrative from the echo-chamber here that "populist progressivism lost" simply because some progressive candidates lost (especially if people are voting straight ticket).

 

[Grexeno]

Policy question: Obama's new overtime rules that go into effect next month: Do you think they are going to stay or get thrown out?

That shit's getting thrown out Day 1.

 

[thefro]

That might be necessary but be be aware that will be taking a big shit on all PoC and a step back for intersetionality. Minority turnout could/will be affected.

I think you have to message the shit out of it, because it comes off to rural white voters as stuck-up liberal college professors trying to talk to them the way Clinton sometimes talked about the minority community. It wasn't awful in context but I heard folks repeating how Rush or Hannity twisted it repeatedly.

 

[Black Mamba]

Warren is charismatic???????

What world is this?

 

[whyamihere]

Warren is charismatic???????

What world is this?

lol, exactly.

 

[Team Alucard]

edit: wrong thread

 

[Poodlestrike]

Policy question: Obama's new overtime rules that go into effect next month: Do you think they are going to stay or get thrown out?

This I believe will actually stay. People's attention spans are too short for a lot of policy to really get processed, but "Republicans straight-up decreased wages" is pretty straightforward.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

In Trump's 4 years he may need to handle the funerals of HW and Carter. If he gets 8, he might need to handle Bill's

How does he do this without making a fool of himself? This is a normal thing all presidents may need to handle, and they need to handle it with dignity whether they agreed with the dead president or not.

 

[Oblivion]

Warren is charismatic???????

What world is this?

*More charismatic than Hillary

 

[Retromelon]

Elizabeth Warren has a ton of charisma. And anyways she's more likeable then our last female candidate.

Not only that, her message is populist as hell, which might be able to win back some of the rural and midwestern voters, and she has no email scandals to continually mire her poll numbers the entire campaign.

And furthermore, she just projects a vivid impression of a heartfelt and earnest politician that cares about the middle and working class. Nothing robotic about her. I am all in on the Warren 2020 train baby

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Warren is charismatic???????

What world is this?

Yeah I think people far overestimate her appeal outside the base

 

[B-Dubs]

It's all counterfactuals at this point.

Would Warren as VP brought the Obama coalition and Bernie voters home? Or would they have simply viewed her as a sell-out? Who knows.

Warren is very charismatic though. She has a message. Hillary never had a message, just an anti-message. You just needed a point to flip this election. Just one fucking point. Gah.

Not even a point. Change the vote distribution slightly, give up the gains in the south for solidifying the rust belt, and the election flips. The most data driven campaign in history had bad data, we all had bad data, and that's probably what screwed us over. We relied too much on basic data and not enough on traditional interpretation.

 

[jmdajr]

One other gleam of hope is that Trump will likely easily get an infrastructure spending bill passed.

The next two years should be relatively obstruction free.

Enjoy your new tax breaks I guess. Debt is going to skyrocket.

Hopefully we can at least stay out of stupid wars.

 

[Jooney]

Maybe Al Franken should write a book and start going around the country telling his personal story.

I'm only half joking.

 

[jtb]

Do we care? Clinton talked about racial rights more than she talked about the economic issues and she just lost, big league. The black American and Hispanic vote - they're not the winning votes anywhere except like Florida, maybe, and even then Clinton lost despite good black and Hispanic turnout there.

I care about these issues and they'd be a top priority if I actually took governance, but I wouldn't ever put them front and centre as a Dem candidate in my campaigns. I think we need to be blunt about this: Obama did well because he won poor white votes at a much higher rate than Clinton. The black American vote was impressive and a milestone in American history, but... what states were won through it that wouldn't otherwise have been won?

I don't know about that.

Maybe Clinton had too much baggage to be an effective messenger, but by all accounts, underperforming AA turnout affected Clinton in Michigan, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Florida - at least. It was always going to be difficult - maybe impossible - to match the turnout from the first black president, but we also can't afford any slippage in enthusiasm from the base.

 

[thepotatoman]

I have to wonder if the house pickups and the senate scare them. If they have any sense at all they'll realize that a 2018 wave is just probable enough that nuking the fillibuster might actually fuck them in 4 years

So its a question of if the greedier or more canny factions of the GOP have control

Problem is, Democrats likely will nuke the filibuster too once it benefits them. They've been burned too badly by the abuse of it. It was never meant to be a defacto 60 vote requirement, but Republicans turned it into that. If they don't nuke it, then republicans might be seeing a level of obstruction they've never seen before, as just deserts.

It's not like voters punish politicians for breaking procedural norms. The can of worms is already open.

 

[sphagnum]

Old black lady at work giving me some hope talking about the inevitable demographic shift and how minorities have still faced worse and will persevere again etc etc

Sigh

 

[whyamihere]

My guess is that the 2020 nominee is from the Midwest.

 

[Finalizer]

That's what I'm relegated to. Pure unfounded hope that he isn't who we see.

polls weren't what we saw

who knows

 

[B-Dubs]

Maybe Al Franken should write a book and start going around the country telling his personal story.

I'm only half joking.

I'm down with it. We just elected "grab them by the pussy" guy, I think we could manage to elect a former SNL comedian with good ideas.

My guess is that the 2020 nominee is from the Midwest.

Al Franken? Al Franken.