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PoliGAF 2016 |OT3| You know what they say about big Michigans - big Florida

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P

pigeon

Banned
So Clinton's position on the death penalty is kind of bizarre for a professional politician, reading the answer on Vox. Basically, she wants to have it for, like, really bad people, like terrorists, but that's it.

This is probably not that uncommon a position among Americans -- on a feelings level, it kind of feels reasonable. The problem is that it's kind of a dumb position! Aside from the potential constitutional issue with having a special punishment we keep in reserve for unusual criminals, I feel like in the end this system just boils down to "rely on the prosecutor, the judge, and the jury to select the specific people who do deserve the death penalty." Which is the system we have now, and we hate it.

I would kind of expect Clinton to have a more coherent response on this issue, especially since Democrats generally don't support the death penalty any more. So a little surprising to me. I guess it doesn't come up much.
 
B

Basileus777

Member
NeoXChaos said:
http://www.monmouth.edu/assets/0/32...1087/e2e94533-5376-4498-8e62-b21454f3e8ba.pdf

OHIO
GOP: Kasich 40/Trump 35/Cruz 15/Rubio 5
(h2h: Kasich 52/Trump 40)

DEM: Clinton 54/Sanders 40
Click to expand...
Kasich called out Trump after violence broke out at a planned Trump rally in Chicago Friday night. Poll respondents interviewed on Saturday and Sunday were asked how that incident affected their vote intentions. Most (67%) say it had no impact on their support, while the remainder are about evenly divided between saying it made them more likely (16%) or less likely (14%) to support Trump.
Click to expand...
So this poll says it didn't shift the race any.
If Trump emerges as the GOP nominee, fewer than two-thirds of Ohio Republicans (64%) say they would get behind him in a general election against Hillary Clinton. Another 10% would actually vote for Clinton, 12% would vote for an independent or 3rd party candidate, 6% say they would not vote at all, and 7% are not sure what they would do. Only 43% of Kasich supporters say they would definitely vote for Trump in the general election while 19% say they would vote for Clinton.
Click to expand...
Why would anyone be afraid of Trump in a GE again?
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
pigeon said:
So Clinton's position on the death penalty is kind of bizarre for a professional politician, reading the answer on Vox. Basically, she wants to have it for, like, really bad people, like terrorists, but that's it.

This is probably not that uncommon a position among Americans -- on a feelings level, it kind of feels reasonable. The problem is that it's kind of a dumb position! Aside from the potential constitutional issue with having a special punishment we keep in reserve for unusual criminals, I feel like in the end this system just boils down to "rely on the prosecutor, the judge, and the jury to select the specific people who do deserve the death penalty." Which is the system we have now, and we hate it.

I would kind of expect Clinton to have a more coherent response on this issue, especially since Democrats generally don't support the death penalty any more. So a little surprising to me. I guess it doesn't come up much.
Click to expand...

It gets even more muddled when you look at her answer the first time she was asked about it a few weeks ago. She said, I'm paraphrasing here, she was for it but wouldn't complain if the courts struck it down. Could just be general election posturing.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Okay, polling people, we're figured out that Trump is certain to win Florida and that there's an 80% or so chance that Kasich wins Ohio. Now that you've done 3258 polls of those two states, how about fucking Missouri?
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I'm willing to bet Missourah is hard as fuck to poll anywhere outside STL. That's why no one is trying to spend money to get unreliable results.
 
U

User 406

Banned
P

pigeon

Banned
Macho Madness said:
To be fair, she also said if the Supreme Court abolished it or an amendment hit her desk, she'd be happy with that. It's a pragmatic approach.
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Right, but that just plays up the "personal opinion" part of the answer (as B-Dubs also notes). If you're like, I think we should keep the death penalty, but if SCOTUS got rid of it that would also be fine, then you are even more directly acknowledging that you have an opinion but you don't consider it a real policy proposal. If you thought it was a policy proposal you supported obviously you'd want SCOTUS to agree with you!

So, I mean, that's fine, Hillary is certainly not the first Democrat to use "well, just my personal opinion" to dodge dealing with a question where the activist left and the Democrat/moderate base differ, but the weird thing to me is that I'm not clear why Hillary feels like it's safer ground to say she kind of supports the death penalty when most Democrats now oppose it.

It might just be left over from when you had to be tough on crime, or maybe she really is just offering a partially considered personal feeling. Except that, as a robot, I don't expect her to do that. The last thing I want from Hillary Clinton is an accurate description of what she personally believes and how it differs from the Democratic Party!
 
J

JesseEwiak

Member
pigeon said:
Right, but that just plays up the "personal opinion" part of the answer (as B-Dubs also notes). If you're like, I think we should keep the death penalty, but if SCOTUS got rid of it that would also be fine, then you are even more directly acknowledging that you have an opinion but you don't consider it a real policy proposal. If you thought it was a policy proposal you supported obviously you'd want SCOTUS to agree with you!

So, I mean, that's fine, Hillary is certainly not the first Democrat to use "well, just my personal opinion" to dodge dealing with a question where the activist left and the Democrat/moderate base differ, but the weird thing to me is that I'm not clear why Hillary feels like it's safer ground to say she kind of supports the death penalty when most Democrats now oppose it.

It might just be left over from when you had to be tough on crime, or maybe she really is just offering a partially considered personal feeling. Except that, as a robot, I don't expect her to do that. The last thing I want from Hillary Clinton is an accurate description of what she personally believes and how it differs from the Democratic Party!
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The death penalty is one of those things that never actually stopped being popular in countries that got rid of it until very very recently. It was very much an 'elitist opinion + leftist support' even in Europe.

Plus, in America, even if support for the death penalty is dropping, Hillary's stated opinion 'keep it for the real SOB's' is probably the median opinion in the US and frankly, even as somebody who would get rid of it on completely utilitarian grounds, I can still see the point for actual terrorists + mass murderers - for example, I got no problem wiping Ted Bundy or Charles Manson from this Earth. The problem is the hundreds of people who could be rehab'd or are likely innocent that would get killed by the State as well.
 
M

Macho Madness

Member
CdhtnMxXEAAsf6e.jpg:large


Obama's approval is skyrocketing with college educated people. The Trump effect?
 
L

lednerg

Member
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
It seems like Bernie's plan wouldn't deliver free college to anyone in a state with a Republican governor and even some states with Dem governors:

http://www.vox.com/2016/3/14/11222482/bernie-sanders-free-college
Click to expand...

Whatever, I'll take it.

The other [relevant point] is that because the College for All Act requires qualifying universities to reduce reliance on low-paid adjunct faculty in addition to eliminating tuition, in practice the federal match is worth even less than 2 to 1.​

Good. Adjunct faculty are getting ripped off.
 
P

PBY

Banned
Damn. Trump pushing 50% in every poll dropping now (outside of OH). He even went over 50% in that national poll
 
J

Jack The Nipper

Banned
these threads use to be fun, funny photos and gifs and now its like a decent percentages is fuck this fuck that, fuck trump

i mean... isnt that hate basically just like people are saying trump has? shit is everywhere makes it a little depressing to even go to these threads. anxiety has really peaked . may have to stop reading them ah

Not trying to say you guys are wrong, but it just flairs my anxiety levels up a bit to see people hating on others so much I guess. Actually, not quite sure has me so anxious feeling.. but yeah..... maybe the protests and watching too much of the rallies as well perhaps.
 
M

Macho Madness

Member
Jack The Nipper said:
these threads use to be fun, funny photos and gifs and now its like a decent percentages is fuck this fuck that, fuck trump

i mean... isnt that hate basically just like people are saying trump has? shit is everywhere makes it a little depressing to even go to these threads. anxiety has really peaked . may have to stop reading them ah

Not trying to say you guys are wrong, but it just flairs my anxiety levels up a bit to see people hating on others so much I guess. Actually, not quite sure has me so anxious feeling.. but yeah..... maybe the protests and watching too much of the rallies as well perhaps.
Click to expand...

I started feeling a lot better when I stopped watching Trump rallies and GOP debates. I don't need that shit in my life.
 
P

PBY

Banned
Jack The Nipper said:
these threads use to be fun, funny photos and gifs and now its like a decent percentages is fuck this fuck that, fuck trump

i mean... isnt that hate basically just like people are saying trump has? shit is everywhere makes it a little depressing to even go to these threads. anxiety has really peaked . may have to stop reading them ah

Not trying to say you guys are wrong, but it just flairs my anxiety levels up a bit to see people hating on others so much I guess. Actually, not quite sure has me so anxious feeling.. but yeah..... maybe the protests and watching too much of the rallies as well perhaps.
Click to expand...

Wait what. Also poligaf <3 Big Don
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Jack The Nipper said:
these threads use to be fun, funny photos and gifs and now its like a decent percentages is fuck this fuck that, fuck trump

i mean... isnt that hate basically just like people are saying trump has?
Click to expand...

No, being angry about bigotry is not the same as being angry because you are a bigot.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
RustyNails said:
Is there any basis to NY and CA will feel the bern talk?
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They're very liberal states, there are probably a decent number of Bernie supporters in both.

I would be pretty surprised if Bernie won New York, I mean, it's one Hillary's four or five home states.

I am keeping an open mind on California for now. I know a lot of Bernie supporters personally and not very many Clinton supporters, but I don't think my friend group is particularly representative. I wouldn't mind it if somebody actually tried to poll California, but I suspect it just isn't going to matter.
 
J

Jack The Nipper

Banned
pigeon said:
No, being angry about bigotry is not the same as being angry because you are a bigot.
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I know I know but its still hate and its just sort of out of my nature... yeah even for stupid racists but... I dunno man. I am a bit senseitive too I admit... but it has def. gotten a lot worse.

Which.... I do admit I didn't watch trump rallies before... why I even watch them now I have no idea. I think I break it down to (he is a person) they are people and I get why they are the way they are through psychology, life, growing up. I will never agree with them but I can understand them. I am def. not taking up for them though so hopefully won't be misunderstood. Maybe cause my good friend also left me I am feeling a bit afraid since i see them every day and most nights..

Hope I don't end up in a I think I'm dying thread... lol already had one of those a few months ago and that was just too rough...

My anxiety is pretty bad when it hits those times so I need to stop watching that crap I think. Threads have it too which isn't really the fault of most posters just talking about what all is happening .
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
RustyNails said:
Is there any basis to NY and CA will feel the bern talk?
Click to expand...

NY? Not unless there's polling I haven't seen. Seems more like wishful thinking than anything else. The City is going to decide how the state swings and the minority vote was enough to win deBlasio his current office so I don't see Bernie taking it unless he's made truly spectacular inroads.
 
N

NeoXChaos

Member
Won't stop Bernie from slamming millions into NY. Don't forget its a 2 week sprint after Wisconsin. What else are they going to spend the money on? Get ready Cerium and b-dubs. The bern is coming.

and:
Jon Lipe &#8207;@JonLipe 21m21 minutes ago
@kkondik Not understanding the proportionality rules sunk Clinton in 2008 and seems to be doing the same to Sanders now.
Click to expand...

Daily Kos Elections
&#8207;@DKElections
@kkondik But the delegate lead *is* the only relevant measure of success
Click to expand...
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
NeoXChaos said:
Won't stop Bernie from slamming millions into NY. Don't forget its a 2 week sprint after Wisconsin. What else are they going to spend the money on? Get ready Cerium and b-dubs. The bern is coming.
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It won't be too bad. The market's too expensive for him to flood the airwaves. At most he'll be able to afford a couple of spots. Even when it comes to statewide elections it doesn't get too crazy.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
David Hopkins has an interesting blog post here pointing out that a big part of the contested convention narrative relies on Cruz being willing to cooperate with everybody else to stop Trump.

Since Cruz's whole strategy this year has been anti-establishment, this is kind of a daring assumption!

What if, instead, Cruz takes the VP slot and throws his delegates to Trump? He's immediately unbeatable.

Imagine that election!

http://www.honestgraft.com/2016/03/a-contested-republican-convention-why.html

Fuchsdh said:
It's certainly a waste of time and energy, though.
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Participating in society's immune response and providing social disapproval to define the boundaries of appropriate behavior is not a waste in my view.
 
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