• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

PoliGAF 2016 |OT3| You know what they say about big Michigans - big Florida

Status
Not open for further replies.
I've spent all morning trying to figure out Obama's pick of Garland.

On one hand, I believed he was going to pick a young, moderate minority. The GOP's refusal to allow them to even go through hearings would have been disastrous.

But he didn't. He picked a older, white moderate. Seems weird. But after thinking, reading opinions of others, and knowing Obama, here's what I think is happening (others here may have already espoused this but I haven't read the thread...and this is certainly not my own invention).

1. Obama now believes Trump is the nominee and believes Hillary/Senate is a lock. That means Hillary will be able to push through anyone she wants. And they might not even have to nuke the filibuster to do it. Hear me out. The GOP has clearly argued that the next President should get their choice, essentially. And this election it's figuratively on the ballot unlike in other Presidential years. And if the GOP doesn't go along with whomever is Hillary's nominee, nuking the filibuster will look agreeable given the context of the obstruction. That's a win/win for Hillary.

2. Obama firmly believes whomever he nominates will be shut down indefinitely. Here's why this is VERY important. Now, we thought that this would mean that minority moderate would get a shot but they didn't. And it now makes sense. If you nominate someone young and qualified only to be shot down, you are screwing them over big some. Sri losing now would mean no future chance. He would be put through a lot, as well. Obama is both loyal and compassionate on a personal level. I do not believe he wanted to use this nomination to screw the future of a potential candidate, especially a minority. In the grand scheme of things, it might have made more sense, but these are real people with real feelings.

So that left Obama looking for a sacrificial lamb. And Garland fits that bill. I don't think being white actually mattered as much. Obama had to find someone who was moderate with amazing credentials and who the Senate, including Republicans, had already confirmed. Well, that's Garland. Appointed by Clinton, confirmed by a GOP Senate, Chief Justice of the [essentially] 2nd highest court, impeccable private and public service and education, there really is no way to fault him sans some scandal no one is aware exists.

And Garland is 63. He's old. Like, really old for the SCOTUS. Before today, Garland must have assumed he reached the peak of his career. Not that that isn't an extremely high peak, but he must have never thought he'd made the SCOTUS after being passed over the previous 2 times. Why would a President nominate someone at the age of 63? Under normal circumstances, Garland despite his qualifications would be passed over due to age. And that's why his age matters. Garland knows he had no chance to make the Court before and he still has a lifetime appointment at the DC Court so he can "take one for the team." He can be put up as a sacrificial lamb knowing his career path has not been ruined. He will just do what he always expected to do. And hell, maybe there's even a 5% chance of being confirmed and this will be his only shot so he might as well do it.

Now, what if the election goes as we believe with a Hillary and Senate Democrat sweep? Then maybe the GOP confirms him in December avoid Hillary's pick? Eh, there's not really enough time to have the confirmation hearings in time and the newcomers will want to weight in. That makes it January with only a couple weeks before Obama is gone.

I fully expect that come November around or after the election, Garland will withdraw his name from the nomination. He'll go down as a footnote but not really much other than that, he'll return to the job he always assumed he'd be doing going forward, and Hillary will be in a very strong position to nominate someone further to the left.

I'm pretty sure Obama has coordinated with the Hillary camp, here. And I'm certain Garland accepted this role knowing what's going to happen.

I really now believe Obama went with Garland over someone like Sri out of respect for Sri and the others. Obama put them above partisan politics.
 

T'Zariah

Banned
I just had a thought. What if Obama totally picked Garland to be on the Court as both his pick and to troll the GOP into a trap, then if/when Hillary wins RBG and Breyer announce their retirement for Hillary to choose at her leisure.
 
Me today

anigif_original-15215-1458060239-4.gif


anigif_original-20459-1458060240-4.gif

That is boss.
 

besada

Banned
More likely Garland was picked because he would be palatable to the largest portion of Republican Senators and actually be successfully confirmed.

I think, rather than playing 11th dimensional chess, he's actually just done his job, by picking a candidate with good credentials, who he may be able to get confirmed.

He'll certainly make hay if the Republicans stonewall, but the choice itself reduces that likelihood, by making them choose between a moderate and whatever Hillary is likely to try and push. From their perspective, Garland is a candidate who makes sense. He's not as right as they'd like, but he"s further right than anyone Clinton is likely to propose, fresh off an election, with a nice mandate in her pocket.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I just had a thought. What if Obama totally picked Garland to be on the Court as both his pick and to troll the GOP into a trap, then if/when Hillary wins RBG and Breyer announce their retirement for Hillary to choose at her leisure.

RBG isn't retiring because she's dead set on beating a random record for time served based on something something Louis Brandeis. Really.
 
http://www.salon.com/2016/03/16/oba...on_is_as_big_a_gop_nightmare_as_donald_trump/

Obama’s decision to nominate Merrick Garland to the Supreme Court is what in technical legal terms is known as a gangster move. It puts Senate Republicans in a basically impossible position – as if the 24 GOP senators up for re-election this November didn’t already have enough problems, what with the ticket almost certain to be headed by a full-fledged disaster of a presidential candidate. (It’s actually hard to say whether Donald Trump or Ted Cruz is less electable, but either of them is basically a worst-case scenario for down ticket GOP candidates.) . . .

Confirming Garland before next year, however, is almost out of the question. Such an act would throw the GOP base, already in the throes of the belief that they have been “betrayed” by RINO squishes, into a rabid frenzy that would make the average Trump rally look like graduate school seminar.

So Garland almost certainly won’t get a vote, or at least not until next year. But that decision in turn has a non-trivial chance of playing a role in flipping the Senate back to the Democrats. Indeed, the only scenario in which a vote on Scalia’s now-vacant seat is likely to happen this year is this one: October rolls around, and it has become all too clear to Senate Republicans that Donald Trump or Ted Cruz is going down in flames, and that he will be taking a whole bunch of GOP senators with him. Only then, perhaps, may they decide that Obama has made them an offer they can’t refuse.

By then, however, they may well find that today’s offer has been withdrawn. In any case, no matter what happens, Obama will expect them not to take it personally. After all, it’s just business.
 
More likely Garland was picked because he would be palatable to the largest portion of Republican Senators and actually be successfully confirmed.

I think, rather than playing 11th dimensional chess, he's actually just done his job, by picking a candidate with good credentials, who he may be able to get confirmed.

He'll certainly make hay if the Republicans stonewall, but the choice itself reduces that likelihood, by making them choose between a moderate and whatever Hillary is likely to try and push. From their perspective, Garland is a candidate who makes sense. He's not as right as they'd like, but he"s further right than anyone Clinton is likely to propose, fresh off an election, with a nice mandate in her pocket.

Had this happened last year in January, no way he picks Garland. It's about his age.

There's no doubt Obama thinks he's highly qualified and would have no problem with him on the court, but if Obama KNEW for a fact his candidate would get through as long as that person wasn't seen as too liberal, he'd have gone for someone much younger.

So yes, there is 11th dimensional chess going on but also fairness to other prospective nominees.
 
More likely Garland was picked because he would be palatable to the largest portion of Republican Senators and actually be successfully confirmed.

I think, rather than playing 11th dimensional chess, he's actually just done his job, by picking a candidate with good credentials, who he may be able to get confirmed.

He'll certainly make hay if the Republicans stonewall, but the choice itself reduces that likelihood, by making them choose between a moderate and whatever Hillary is likely to try and push. From their perspective, Garland is a candidate who makes sense. He's not as right as they'd like, but he"s further right than anyone Clinton is likely to propose, fresh off an election, with a nice mandate in her pocket.

This is my take on it as well. The 11th dimensional chess talk is reaching and not really in character for Obama. I think Garland may very well be confirmed once it becomes clear that Trump is the nominee.
 
It's a smart move, can't fuck up this change to alter the court this hugely on the chance Hillary doesn't win in Nov.

I think the GOP will move to confirm. Better to eat a 20 year moderate liberal than a 40 year RBG/Sotomayor
 

Polari

Member
Okay, let's vote for biggest Trump lies:

Biggest Trump lie that is easily fact-checked within 10 seconds.

1. China is devaluing their currency
2. I am self-funding my campaign.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jan/13/perils-of-china-currency-devaluation-yuan-renminbi

Trump is contributing much, much more of his personal wealth than any other presidential contender. The only other candidates contributing to their own campaigns are: retired neurosurgeon Ben Carson, who has so far reported contributing $25,000; former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton at $368,147; and former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush at $388,720.

Although a significant portion of his campaign funds, about 34 percent, come from individual contributions, Trump doesn’t appear to be actively soliciting these donations with high-profile fundraising events. The Sunlight Foundation, which advocates for transparency in money in politics, tracks political fundraisers with its Political Party Time tool. It has no record of any events to benefit Trump.

In contrast, Political Party Time has recorded more than 280 fundraisers for Clinton and more than 150 for Bush since the start of 2015.

There is, though, a "donate" button on Trump’s website.

Trump also has minimal political action committee support compared with his opponents. PACs have raised just $1.8 million on Trump’s behalf, which is the lowest among all candidates still in the race, with the exception of Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, and Republican former Virginia Gov. Jim Gilmore, whose PAC fundraising for both candidates remains at $0.

Our ruling

Trump said, "I'm self-funding my own campaign."

As of the end of 2015, Trump’s own contributions account for more than half of all money the campaign has taken in. He’s contributed far more of his own money than any other candidate this cycle.

However, a significant portion of his money comes from individual contributions. For several months last year, the campaign received far more dollars from potential voters than they did from Trump. Additionally, most of Trump’s contributions have been loans rather than donations, so he may hope to recoup those funds.

The statement is partially accurate but leaves out important details, so we rate it Half True.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m.../donald-trump-self-funding-his-campaign-sort/

Should we repost the video of Hillary lying for 13 minutes?
 

jtb

Banned
Had this happened last year in January, no way he picks Garland. It's about his age.

There's no doubt Obama thinks he's highly qualified and would have no problem with him on the court, but if Obama KNEW for a fact his candidate would get through as long as that person wasn't seen as too liberal, he'd have gone for someone much younger.

So yes, there is 11th dimensional chess going on but also fairness to other prospective nominees.

I agree re: age. If anything, him being empathetic towards other potential nominees is Obama eschewing overly political moves -- after all, putting up a minority sacrificial lamb would amplify the electoral argument for the Democratic base even more come November. It's a no-lose proposition for Obama anyways. If he's confirmed, it's a major victory. If they kick the can to Hillary, it's a major victory.
 
I really don't see how the GOP can back down from their pledge. To do so now or soon would complete destroy what little standing they have with the rabid base. It would probably cost them the House at this point, out of spite.

By the time they will be willing to back down, it'll probably be too late and Garland will withdraw.

The GOP dug themselves out of a hole they can't escape.
 

besada

Banned
Had this happened last year in January, no way he picks Garland. It's about his age.

There's no doubt Obama thinks he's highly qualified and would have no problem with him on the court, but if Obama KNEW for a fact his candidate would get through as long as that person wasn't seen as too liberal, he'd have gone for someone much younger.

So yes, there is 11th dimensional chess going on but also fairness to other prospective nominees.

Well, he's obviously responding to the existing situation, rather than ignoring it. I just wouldn't consider that to be any sort of 11th dimensional chess. Garland's a good pick, in part because it's possible he'll vacate his seat within the next sixteen years, giving a putative second term Clinton administration another go round.

Again, none of this is super-complex kung fu. It's responding to a favorable situation with some basic thought.

Hell, Stumpokapow called this basic pick the day Scalia died.
 

studyguy

Member
At this point I'd imagine they just want to hold to their guns to prove to their constituency that they won't fold under pressure, regardless of how idiotic the venture is. Truly awful stuff, dig a hole then hold a gun to your own head while insisting you're doing the right thing.

Was they pissed? I mean royally pissed?

giphy.gif
 

kirblar

Member
Garland's obviously a sacrifice bunt. If he was serious about this nominee, he'd pick someone younger.

This whole thing is about optics and political gamesmanship- think back to the obvious GOP governor bait.
 

ampere

Member
I sorta hope they don't bite on Garland and Hillary can put up someone more progressive, but I haven't looked at the upcoming cases to be heard by the court over the next year and considered the implications of that

Couldn't tell you. White wife came to pick them up.

lmao
 
I really don't see how the GOP can back down from their pledge. To do so now or soon would complete destroy what little standing they have with the rabid base. It would probably cost them the House at this point, out of spite.

By the time they will be willing to back down, it'll probably be too late and Garland will withdraw.

The GOP dug themselves out of a hole they can't escape.
Mitch has weighted that factor into his calculus already. GOP will not give Garland a hearing no matter what. When Hillary eventually becomes the president and the new dem senate passes Garland or Sri, they can wash the hands off the nomination and go into a blaming mode. They will blame Hillary for her liberal activist judges for the next 4 years. In short, losing the court vacancy to a liberal/moderate is smaller price to pay than losing the place in establishment.
 
Well, he's obviously responding to the existing situation, rather than ignoring it. I just wouldn't consider that to be any sort of 11th dimensional chess. Garland's a good pick, in part because it's possible he'll vacate his seat within the next sixteen years, giving a putative second term Clinton administration another go round.

Again, none of this is super-complex kung fu. It's responding to a favorable situation with some basic thought.

Hell, Stumpokapow called this basic pick the day Scalia died.

Okay, fair enough. Maybe 11th dimensional chess is not the right phrase.

My argument why he picked Garland over a person like Sri was out of respect to those people; to not destroy their chances at actually being on the Supreme Court in the future.

Obama believes:

A. Hillary will win with a Dem Senate

B. He doesn't want to fuck over a younger, qualified candidate

C. He wants to nominate someone who, if by some chance, is confirmed he'd be very happy about, but if not, would not feel bad towards that person.

Garland fits the bill. Is that chess or just a smart reading? Doesn't really matter.

Also, Clinton will not be President in 16 years unless you mean Chelsea?
 

NeoXChaos

Member
Taniel
‏@Taniel
Latest count of Dems' pledged delegates (relying on AP calls):

Clinton 1130
Sanders 811
still unclear 77

wonder what the spread will be

did dailykos follow through with their general election mode article.
 
Garland seems like a perfectly fine choice, with the only drawback being he's older. Are people disappointed purely because of #optics?
Is there any way to determine how much gold Sanders has left? Ballpark is fine. Trying to get a value to extrapolate how much pull he could get with dems in exchange for warchest+continued fundraising and other works.
FEC numbers for fundraising, spending and cash on hand will be released in a few days.
 
Hmm.....starting to contemplate the idea of Hillary for the next 4 years.....

Well, we survived 8 years of Bush. I guess we can survive 4 years of Hillary.

The bigger problem is if Trump doesn't win, who does the GOP have left for 2020? All of their "deep bench" turned out to be joke candidates.
 

ivysaur12

Banned
omg

http://gawker.com/pbs-news-story-on-first-time-trump-voters-prominently-f-1765284316

Last night, PBS NewsHour ran a story on the Tilly family of Fayetteville, North Carolina. The Tillys do not have a history of being active in politics, but various members of the family—both old and young—are being motivated to vote or work for a campaign for the first time by Donald Trump.

If you can put aside the fact that the Tillys are rallying behind Trump, this is a small but almost heartwarming story of a family choosing to engage with democracy. That’s also if you can put aside the fact that Grace, one of the central characters in the story, has large white power tattoos on each of her hands.

xkdgz8dcmpluc56dcwuw.png


ra658azs1s1o1q4ozqhg.png
 
Garland seems like a perfectly fine choice, with the only drawback being he's older. Are people disappointed purely because of #optics?
FEC numbers for fundraising, spending and cash on hand will be released in a few days.

Personally, my only opposition to him that I can muster is his age. But given the circumstances, it's the best Obama could do without finding someone younger willing to ruin their future potential.

it is what it is, as they say.
 

Makai

Member
Hmm.....starting to contemplate the idea of Hillary for the next 4 years.....

Well, we survived 8 years of Bush. I guess we can survive 4 years of Hillary.

The bigger problem is if Drumpf doesn't win, who does the GOP have left for 2020? All of their "deep bench" turned out to be joke candidates.
Ted Cruz will run again.
 
BTW, calling Obama's decisions 11th dimensional chess may really be a mistake.

What we need is a term for the GOP decisions being 11th dimensional chess...only in reverse.

I have no idea what this is but it needs a name.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom