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PoliGAF 2016 |OT3| You know what they say about big Michigans - big Florida

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V

VendettaRed07

Member
pigeon said:
Should probably just switch to a big white number anyway. Adding more stars every time seems inefficient.
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W

WaffleTaco

Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Makai said:
The flag I want

nauflag.jpg


Annex Canada and Mexico, President Trump.
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I would not put it pass him to want to do it. Stop illegals, by make them legal, by making America great again, by expanding the American Empire!

The leaf would probably be smaller though.

Also I wonder if the world would have been better off if Iraq was just made into a US territory? Or if after WW1 or WW2, I can't remember, that the Middle East was made into territories for each nation...basically like empire expansion.
 
M

Makai

Member
pigeon said:
Yeah, that's way more efficient. Upvote. Imagine how much time you'll save not having to count all the stars to make sure there are fifty and you're not accidentally saluting the pre-1959 United States of America.
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The last time I saluted a flag was in my mock Senate class. Our flag kinda sucks, too.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
I'm pretty surprised we haven't seen alt-right writers given a platform by a semi-big news outlet/blog yet.

There's obviously some appeal for fascism and white supremacy so it seems like it would be a winning business move to employ some alt-right guy that has written pro-fascism and pro-white supremacy takes.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
Holmes said:
White men are honestly so annoying. Just reading the quotes in this article was a challenge.
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Forrest Giffin, a mall supervisor from Sumter, S.C., said, “I really wonder if she wants people like me in the Democratic Party.”
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Totally want him in my party..among other places.

But white men, like myself, can be among the worst. Some of them don't even have fabulousness to fall back on, can you imagine?
 
V

Valhelm

contribute something
Melkr_ said:
But yeah you couldnt be more wrong about Sanders. And you better get used to it, since the Democratic Party will be the Party of Sanders from now on even if he doesnt win the nomination.
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Sanders might just be the Democratic Goldwater -- a wildly popular ideologue who fundamentally changed the party, despite losing.

In almost every state, Bernie polls 60-70% among all voters under 45. As the cohort makeup of the Democratic base shifts, the Sanders voters will begin affect the party line.
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
It's really more voters under 30 than under 45.
I'm still not entirely convinced they aren't just FOMO.

Also, Cohn? Meh. Where's Tyler?
pigeon said:
Oh, cool, why didn't you say so before. I agree that seeing my flag design is like a beautiful moment of awakening to America's true self. I feel like Betsy Ross 2.0.
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Perfect interpretation skills. You should be President.
 
V

Valhelm

contribute something
shinra-bansho said:
It's really more voters under 30 than under 45.
I'm still not entirely convinced they aren't just FOMO.

Also, Cohn? Meh. Where's Tyler?
Perfect interpretation skills. You should be President.
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Sanders has or had a majority of under-45 voters. He has a chokehold on under-30 voters. The question is if it's about ideology or personality. I'm inclined to think that Bernie Sanders' self declared socialism is not the driving factor for most of his support, but his radical positions are going to have a permanent stain on the Democratic party. Voters aren't going to take fiscal policy for granted any longer.
 
M

Makai

Member
pigeon said:
Oh, cool, why didn't you say so before. I agree that seeing my flag design is like a beautiful moment of awakening to America's true self. I feel like Betsy Ross 2.0.
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I am convinced you are an engineer working in Silicon Valley. Efficient star patterns. 2.0.

Just make the phone app that lets you know if your flag is compliant.
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
He wins voters under 30 relatively consistently. Although not in all states. He doesn't win voters 30-44 consistently.

Because the other adjective that needs to be added is "whites."

I think the Democratic party is likely to continue its incremental move leftward, but I also think that's something that's already happening regardless.

Oltsu said:
This couldn't possibly have anything to do with the way she pivoted around to social progressive stances in order to hide the absolute lack of giving any shits about more leftist positions on national security, defense, corruption or the economy.
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Or it could be that she's not running against a black man now.

I'm not sure what a "leftist" position on national security and defense entails, but I imagine it translates to isolationism. On corruption and the economy, I'm not sure what campaign you're watching, but whatever.
 
O

Oltsu

Banned
shinra-bansho said:
Or it could be that she's not running against a black man now.

I'm not sure what a "leftist" position on national security and defense entails, but I imagine it translates to isolationism. On corruption and the economy, I'm not sure what campaign you're watching, but whatever.
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Racism is probably a factor to some people, but is it actually the main factor for white men who consistently go Dem? Or is it more likely that it's the change in Clinton's biggest talking points?

Leftist (or actually what I mean here is liberal) positions on national security and defense might be respecting people's privacy, not wanting a proper surveillance state, not seeing wars as business opportunities, not interfering in foreign political systems just to get someone pro-America in power etc.

Basic liberal stuff. This stuff is also a big reason why some people are somewhat disillusioned with obama after his promises. Not that bailouts, lack of any willingness to go after financial crime etc. helps either. And people see Hillary promising more of the same but with extra social progress. So it's no wonder that if you're not getting any benefit from those social changes but do see the other stuff as extremely worrying that you'd flip to a candidate that doesn't just want more of Obama.
 
T

Thoraxes

Member
Macho Madness said:
Willie Wilson is running for president, and he's in Chicago. It would stand to reason that Cook County would be his best county.

The Secretary of State has not published official results online yet but here's Cook County's unofficial official results: http://electionnight.cookcountyclerk.com/

Or if you want to drill down to specifically how the city of Chicago voted: http://www.chicagoelections.com/en/wdlevel3.asp?elec_code=5

So as we figured, something's up with AP.

Willie Wilson did, however, beat Martin O'Malley in Chicago.
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I guess Kim Foxx's advertising is paying off.
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
shinra-bansho said:
NYT
As Hillary Clinton sweeps states, one group resists: white men.

They were okay with voting for her when the opponent was then-Senator Obama though.
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Many said they did not trust her to overhaul the economy because of her wealth and her ties to Wall Street. Some said her use of private email as secretary of state indicated she had something to hide. A few said they did not think a woman should be commander in chief. But most said they simply did not think Mrs. Clinton cared about people like them.

“She’s talking to minorities now, not really to white people, and that’s a mistake,” said Dennis Bertko, 66, a construction project manager in Youngstown, Ohio, as he sipped a draft beer at the Golden Dawn Restaurant in a downtrodden part of town. “She could have a broader message. We would have listened.”

“Instead, she’s talking a lot about continuing Obama’s policies,” he said. “I just don’t necessarily agree with all of the liberal ideas of Obama.”

Mr. Bertko said that he rarely crossed party lines but that he voted for Donald J. Trump, who is making a strong pitch to disaffected white men by assailing free-trade agreements that Mrs. Clinton once supported. “I know a lot of guys who are open to Trump,” he said.
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Yeah... this is a guy who thinks Clinton talks about minorities too much and thinks Obama was too liberal. Something tells me he's never had strong Democratic positions.

“There are all these questions about her past, and she doesn’t give straight responses about them,” said Forrest Giffin, 23, a Democrat in Sumter, S.C., who cited Mrs. Clinton’s refusal to release transcripts of her paid speeches to banks. Mr. Giffin, a mall supervisor and assistant manager at a gas station, added, “I really wonder if she wants people like me in the Democratic Party.”
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It would have been nice for the article to detail what this guy meant by that last statement. People like what? People obsessed with speech transcripts?
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
The only person who was campaigning on privacy rights was probably the Senator from Kentucky. So, the idea that Dennis Bertko, 66, who thinks she's paying too much attention to pesky minorities is voting against her because he fears the NSA is a stretch.

He could plausibly be voting against her and for someone like Trump because of nonsensical populist rhetoric on trade coming from both sides, I suppose. Or it could just be because she's shrill and has blood coming out of her whatever.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
I think a lot of people are misreading the Bernie vote. I don't believe his voters are much further to the left. I believe he has a vocal support group that is and stuff, but most people who are going in the voting booths and voting for him are not that in tune to politics to care.

I think a lot of his vote is "Not-Hillary," really. She's been around a long time. And yeah, there's also an obvious portion that is "Not-Obama" in there too (basically, Hillary promises to further Obama and these people are racist). It's not a huge group, though in some states they are (looking at you, West Virginia).

If Hillary was not ever married to Bill and she was a Senator and then SOS and decided to run for the first time now with the exact same message and campaign, Bernie would have gone home already. She'd be up by a fuck ton. Or a Younger Jerry Brown. Or an older Kamala Harris. Etc.

Young people just don't want any more Clinton or Bushes. That's all there is to this. The coming generation isn't moving far left. It is moving left, as it always does, but mostly on social policy (which hillary already represents even moreso than Bernie).

Young people are idealistic. I don't subscribe to the notion that people become more conservative as they age (and this has no bearing in data) but I do believe people become less idealistic and more realistic. Their positions become more refined. What was once "ban all fossil fuels" becomes "give incentives for alternative energy sources, reducing pollution, and moving away from fossil fuels."

So yeah, some young people right now might agree with Bernie, but I think in 10 years, their positions become more nuanced than his currently are. It'll be a shift left but not nearly as drastic as Bernie believes.

Hillary and Obama are where the party are today. But even though the party of 15 years from now will be further left than that, it won't be where Bernie is. It will lie with someone else, someone still a ways away from Bernie.

I know Bernie fans don't want to believe it, but I truly think a lot, if not most, of his actual voters are voting against Hillary and not for him.
 
O

OrangeGrayBlue

Member
Black Mamba said:
I think a lot of people are misreading the Bernie vote. I don't believe his voters are much further to the left. I believe he has a vocal support group that is and stuff, but most people who are going in the voting booths and voting for him are not that in tune to politics to care.

I think a lot of his vote is "Not-Hillary," really. She's been around a long time. And yeah, there's also an obvious portion that is "Not-Obama" in there too (basically, Hillary promises to further Obama and these people are racist). It's not a huge group, though in some states they are (looking at you, West Virginia).

If Hillary was not ever married to Bill and she was a Senator and then SOS and decided to run for the first time now with the exact same message and campaign, Bernie would have gone home already. She'd be up by a fuck ton. Or a Younger Jerry Brown. Or an older Kamala Harris. Etc.

Young people just don't want any more Clinton or Bushes. That's all there is to this. The coming generation isn't moving far left. It is moving left, as it always does, but mostly on social policy (which hillary already represents even moreso than Bernie).

Young people are idealistic. I don't subscribe to the notion that people become more conservative as they age (and this has no bearing in data) but I do believe people become less idealistic and more realistic. Their positions become more refined. What was once "ban all fossil fuels" becomes "give incentives for alternative energy sources, reducing pollution, and moving away from fossil fuels."

So yeah, some young people right now might agree with Bernie, but I think in 10 years, their positions become more nuanced than his currently are. It'll be a shift left but not nearly as drastic as Bernie believes.

Hillary and Obama are where the party are today. But even though the party of 15 years from now will be further left than that, it won't be where Bernie is. It will lie with someone else, someone still a ways away from Bernie.

I know Bernie fans don't want to believe it, but I truly think a lot, if not most, of his actual voters are voting against Hillary and not for him.
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That probably has some effect, I'd agree. For anyone age 28 and younger, the only president they've ever known who wasn't a Clinton or a Bush is the current one.
 
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