PoliGAF 2016 |OT3| You know what they say about big Michigans - big Florida

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Y2Kev said:
I don't think it's an obvious repudiation of his new American identity because the people using it are just hurrrrrrrr drumpf, but it's the same thing. It's John Oliver saying no, the identity you want I will deny you and assign you this old one you don't identify with. I'm not even sure the intent is all that different just because Oliver is not being, explicitly, a racist. This whole drumpf thing really, genuinely rubs me the wrong way.
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Okay, yeah, that is a pretty valid argument. Drumpf is bad.

How do you feel about Santorum? That's still cool, right?
 
OrangeGrayBlue said:
That probably has some effect, I'd agree. For anyone age 28 and younger, the only president they've ever known who wasn't a Clinton or a Bush is the current one.
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I'd say even older than that, as really young kids don't know or care who the president is. I'm nearly 33 and I don't remember anything from Reagan's tenure; my earliest "political" memory was Desert Storm, and that happened when I was 7.
 
Y2Kev said:
I don't think it's an obvious repudiation of his new American identity because the people using it are just hurrrrrrrr drumpf, but it's the same thing. It's John Oliver saying no, the identity you want I will deny you and assign you this old one you don't identify with. I'm not even sure the intent is all that different just because Oliver is not being, explicitly, a racist. This whole drumpf thing really, genuinely rubs me the wrong way.
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Well put.
 
Y2Kev said:
I don't think it's an obvious repudiation of his new American identity because the people using it are just hurrrrrrrr drumpf, but it's the same thing. It's John Oliver saying no, the identity you want I will deny you and assign you this old one you don't identify with. I'm not even sure the intent is all that different just because Oliver is not being, explicitly, a racist. This whole drumpf thing really, genuinely rubs me the wrong way.
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I agree.

Trump was a bad target for Oliver anyways, a waste of his platform to preach to the choir.
 
Y2Kev said:
I don't think it's an obvious repudiation of his new American identity because the people using it are just hurrrrrrrr drumpf, but it's the same thing. It's John Oliver saying no, the identity you want I will deny you and assign you this old one you don't identify with. I'm not even sure the intent is all that different just because Oliver is not being, explicitly, a racist. This whole drumpf thing really, genuinely rubs me the wrong way.
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I don't have a problem with the original segment because part of the attack was lambasting him for attacking Jon Stewart for changing his name and saying he should be proud of Leibowitz
 
I'm not going to get too worked up about Sanders talking about courting superdelegates because, frankly, it's the kind of dumb thing a candidate who is losing the primaries says. If anything he should be called out for how unrealistic it is. Superdelegates would be reluctant enough to go against the voters, to do it for someone who's basically renting the party label over their preferred candidate would be unthinkable short of an indictment over emails/Benghazi/Vince Foster. His swing state argument was never going to work, but now that he's lost IA/NV/VA/FL/OH/NC it's not even an argument he can plausibly make. The momentum argument would rest entirely on an illusion created by the primary calendar. I think it's a bad look when you've had his supporters saying that "the corruption and rot in the Democratic Party has gone so far that superdelegates are going to try to steal the nomination from him and it's just proof that we don't really live in a real democracy" but he's hardly the first candidate to grasp at straws after it's clear he's lost the primary.
 
Y2Kev said:
I don't think it's an obvious repudiation of his new American identity because the people using it are just hurrrrrrrr drumpf, but it's the same thing. It's John Oliver saying no, the identity you want I will deny you and assign you this old one you don't identify with. I'm not even sure the intent is all that different just because Oliver is not being, explicitly, a racist. This whole drumpf thing really, genuinely rubs me the wrong way.
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It's also completely nonsensical, since Jon Stewart was born with the name Leibowitz while Trump was born with the name... Trump. It hasn't been "Drumpf" in 350 years. It's not really hard to point out Trump's hypocrisy, but him not using a name that he never actually had is hardly indicative of that. Of all the racist, sexist, bigoted, hypocritical bullshit Trump spews on a daily basis, you opt to go after an ancient family identity? I don't get it. I normally like John Oliver, but I agree that this line of attack is the wrong tack.
 
Atomic Playboy said:
It's also completely nonsensical, since Jon Stewart was born with the name Leibowitz while Trump was born with the name... Trump. It hasn't been "Drumpf" in 350 years. It's not really hard to point out Trump's hypocrisy, but him not using a name that he never actually had is hardly indicative of that. Of all the racist, sexist, bigoted, hypocritical bullshit Trump spews on a daily basis, you opt to go after an ancient family identity? I don't get it. I normally like John Oliver, but I agree that this line of attack is the wrong tack.
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and if you're going to take the piss out of a name, Trump sounds way stupider than Drumpf. Maybe that's down to my British perspective. Here 'trump' means 'fart'.
 
Slayven said:
Call me crazy but the big winner in this whole mess is Kasich. Dude climbed out the gutter to be seriously considered
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Macho Madness said:
I didn't think his campaign would last a month.
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Truth. He also managed to convince people that he is fairly moderate just by getting into a primary fight with people who are literally comic book villain caricatures, despite the fact that he has an extremely right-wing record on a number of key issues.
 
Bernie had a campaign rally in my hometown this morning. I'd have gone for sure if I was there.

Also, the Idaho Democrats might be expecting higher turnout than usual:

POCATELLO, Idaho (KIFI/KIDK) -
The Bannock County Democratic Party is moving its presidential caucus to a larger venue. County Co-Chair Linda Leeuwrik said advanced reservations climbed so quickly that turnout was expected to exceed previous estimates.

In response, the party moved its caucus to the Shoshone-Bannock Hotel and Event Center at 777 Bannock Trail in Fort Hall.

The center can accommodate approximately two thousand people

Check-in will begin at 6 p.m. and the caucus will begin at 7 p.m. Anyone inside the building by 7 p.m. will be admitted to the caucus.

Anyone who wants to participate as a Democrat, did not vote in any other party's primary, and will be a registered voter of the county on November 8, 2016 is eligible to take part in the caucus. Online advanced reservation is still available here and will greatly expedite the check-in process.
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lmao moving it to Fort Hall is interesting. I don't know how Native Americans vote but it's a ways out from Pocatello where ISU is located.
 
samn said:
and if you're going to take the piss out of a name, Trump sounds way stupider than Drumpf. Maybe that's down to my British perspective. Here 'trump' means 'fart'.
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I've heard Brits mention that and yeah, it doesn't mean that here at all. Trump is associated with "top" as in card games
 
Plinko said:
I stay out of every Bernie thread. The parallels between hardcore Bernie fans and the Tea Party are real. I can't handle it. It makes zero sense to engage them, because they refuse to take any other thought into consideration.
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I don't know. The Tea Partiers turnout, they're organized. They care about anything political, from your local school board to the Supreme Court. And they always vote for the Republican, even someone they hate, because the Democrat is always infinitely worse.

I'm not so sure a left version of the Tea Party would be that bad... but I don't think these guys fit that exactly.
 
I thought the point from Oliver was simply to argue Trump as marketing gimmick instead of serious businessman or politician. Thus, take the Trump name away which is associated with glamour and wealth and give him his historical surname, and the marketing sheen is gone and one is left with a fucking dolt in a stupid hat from the '70s.

However, some people decided to use Drumpf as a pejorative instead, for whatever reason.
 
BoboBrazil said:
I'm just gonna say caucuses are the dumbest thing ever and should he eliminated from our political system.
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No lies detected

They were fine when people only went to town once a month on their one good horse but now they just seem like a way to brow beat folks with peer pressure
 
I tried to make an appeal in OT to hard line progressives on the value of voting Clinton in the general. I know it's falling on deaf ears for the most part, but I feel like we have an obligation to keep extending that hand, no matter how many times it gets slapped away. If even one person reconsiders their position, it's worth it to keep trying to meet anger and frustration with understanding and compassion. It's way too easy to just get annoyed and go, "You don't just get what you want! Sit down and shut up." That's not the way though. The exclusionary nature of the Right is what lead to the Tea Party as much if not more than radical rhetoric. We've got to own that sort of thing. We have to make it clear that far-left views matter and that we're going to leave a seat at the table open for them.

I don't want to alienate those people. Like Hillary keeps saying, we need to fight for them even if they're not prepared to fight for us. So, to all our Bernie supporters out there: I like you guys. I like what your guy stands for. I'm gunna fight like hell to open a hole in the conservative armor for you guys to stick a shit ton of socialism right up in there. I hope some of y'all see that. What'd you say? Friends?
 
BoboBrazil said:
Trump is having an event tonight in Salt Lake City! Finally we can have some entertainment again.
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To be honest, I'm a bit annoyed at the fetishism here surrounding watching Trump events, while at the same time trying to complain about the press helping prop up a racist fascist. Of course if you watch these things like they're a drug you're doing nothing but enabling the press in this.
 
NYCmetsfan said:
I don't have a problem with the original segment because part of the attack was lambasting him for attacking Jon Stewart for changing his name and saying he should be proud of Leibowitz
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Ok two things:

trump is an asshole and

Trump did not change his name. His ancestors did.

It's not exactly the same. Trump has never been a drumpf. It means nothing to him. It's an attempt to demean him by making him sound stupid (by Oliver's own admission).

Jon doesn't deserve shit for what he did, because it's his nobodu's business. Trump is an asshole.
 
Pundit class believes final passage of TPP will be done in the lame duck.

I hadn't thought about it too much but it makes sense. Gonna be some outrage when it happens though.
 
Macho Madness said:
Bernie had a campaign rally in my hometown this morning. I'd have gone for sure if I was there.

Also, the Idaho Democrats might be expecting higher turnout than usual:



lmao moving it to Fort Hall is interesting. I don't know how Native Americans vote but it's a ways out from Pocatello where ISU is located.
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They say this but it would help if my county's website would lost where the caucus is, grumble grumble
 
teiresias said:
To be honest, I'm a bit annoyed at the fetishism here surrounding watching Trump events, while at the same time trying to complain about the press helping prop up a racist fascist. Of course if you watch these things like they're a drug you're doing nothing but enabling the press in this.
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Booooo
 
Macho Madness said:
Pundit class believes final passage of TPP will be done in the lame duck.

I hadn't thought about it too much but it makes sense. Gonna be some outrage when it happens though.
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Makes sense. People will be pissed but they can't do anything about it and it means Hillary doesn't have to take an immediate hit by signing it.
 
Y2Kev said:
Ok two things:

trump is an asshole and

Trump did not change his name. His ancestors did.

It's not exactly the same. Trump has never been a drumpf. It means nothing to him. It's an attempt to demean him by making him sound stupid (by Oliver's own admission).

Jon doesn't deserve shit for what he did, because it's his nobodu's business. Trump is an asshole.
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I don't think its the same thing but in the context of the segment it didn't strike me as what your claiming it is.
 
Other than some of the copyright law stuff, I am not sure what TPP has that I am uncomfortable with. I really like the child labor law standards being raised, too. Still not sure what to think about TPP.
 
Anoregon said:
hey guys im really sorry for ruining this thread by off-handedly posting the word "drumpf" for literally the first time in my life on any forum.
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Don't feel bad, you could have said yas queen which is infinitely worse imho
B-Dubs said:
Sam Bee is killing it in an incredibly nasty way, I love it. She's got that edge, that anger, I've been missing ever since Jon left.
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This. Trevor's smiliness is grating.
 
Voysa Reezun said:
Other than some of the copyright law stuff, I am not sure what TPP has that I am uncomfortable with. I really like the child labor law standards being raised, too. Still not sure what to think about TPP.
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eh. I'm pretty pro TPP and trade deals in general. The IP stuff and pharma stuff is questionable and there's the whole suing countries but that's a lot more complicated than many liberals make it out to be.

EskimoJoe said:
Whatever happened to Daniel B.? That guy was the very best.
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He posted last night
 
NYCmetsfan said:
I don't think its the same thing but in the context of the segment it didn't strike me as what your claiming it is.
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Yeah right. Jon dropped his name Because, and here's the dog whistle, it sounds Jewish. I mean that's the insinuation by trump, right? He's trying to Other him.

Oliver is doing the exact same bullshit. Just hurrrr it's funny because drumpf.
 
NYCmetsfan said:
eh. I'm pretty pro TPP and trade deals in general. The IP stuff and pharma stuff is questionable and there's the whole suing countries but that's a lot more complicated than many liberals make it out to be.
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Yeah, the suing thing is actually really complicated and boiling it down in the way it has been done is just not helpful.

For one thing, corporations have been able to sue countries for years. And they SHOULD be able to sue countries in some circumstances. If a country decides it#s just going to seize control of every factory in the country, then the owners of those factories should be able to sue for damages and the cost of the factories.

TPP might go too far in what it does, but these things aren't inherently wrong.
 
Y2Kev said:
Yeah right. Jon dropped his name Because, and here's the dog whistle, it sounds Jewish. I mean that's the insinuation by trump, right? He's trying to Other him.

Oliver is doing the exact same bullshit. Just hurrrr it's funny because drumpf.
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Eh. I think its more, hey youre an immigrant too. Don't shit on them. Oliver isn't serious about him being drumpf but that "hey you built your empire on becoming american" (drumpf tower or drumpf stakes wouldn't be successful) but now your denying others the same opportunity and saying they don't have a claim in this country
 
Maledict said:
Yeah, the suing thing is actually really complicated and boiling it down in the way it has been done is just not helpful.

For one thing, corporations have been able to sue countries for years. And they SHOULD be able to sue countries in some circumstances. If a country decides it#s just going to seize control of every factory in the country, then the owners of those factories should be able to sue for damages and the cost of the factories.

TPP might go too far in what it does, but these things aren't inherently wrong.
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I agree. You can't invite investment with promises and then undermine them.

But at the same time this inherently undermines democratic control and the peoples right to change their government. Shit is complicated
 
It's been a long time since I read up on TPP, but I was having a hard time with understanding it since it was something Obama was for, but a lot of people/organizations I follow were against.

I remember in some Q&A thing on Twitter somebody asking about drilling in the Antarctic.
 
Macho Madness said:
Pundit class believes final passage of TPP will be done in the lame duck.

I hadn't thought about it too much but it makes sense. Gonna be some outrage when it happens though.
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Yeah. Hillary coming out against TPP guarantees that it will get passed before she leaves office, because Obama wants it done.
 
Oliver is [now?] saying the Drumpf bit was an attempt to separate the Trump brand/myth from the facts/reality of his policies and business history.

I don't think any of it's particularly successful or insightful. Certainly in practice it's just a way to smugly mock Trump.
 
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