Poodlestrike
Banned
I could see the Republicans basically devolving into 2 parties, one for Economic and one for Social conservatism, with the religious types sprinkling both.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
PoliGAF 2016 |OT3| You know what they say about big Michigans - big Florida
- Thread starter Spoiled Milk
- Start date
- Status
TumblingHippo
Member
What if the remaining 5 candidates did a debate where all 5 were on stage at the same time?
shinra-bansho
Member
Hmm. What does Sanders campaigning for Clinton even look like...
Secretary Clinton is a fighter for you, the business model of Wall St is fraud. She'll make a great President, no more disastrous trade deals. We can't have a Republican President, millionaires billionaires.
Has he ever really campaigned for some else like he's expected to here? I know he says he campaigned hard for Obama, but the latter's senior staff don't remember that being the case.
Secretary Clinton is a fighter for you, the business model of Wall St is fraud. She'll make a great President, no more disastrous trade deals. We can't have a Republican President, millionaires billionaires.
Has he ever really campaigned for some else like he's expected to here? I know he says he campaigned hard for Obama, but the latter's senior staff don't remember that being the case.
If they split their vote like that, neither would be competitive.
Poodlestrike
Banned
RustyNails
Member
I dont know if the devolution will happen this november, but there's gonna be dangerous cracks in the dam for sure. All these GOP meetings and talk from conservative thought leaders leads me to believe a Romney 3rd party nomination is likely, in an effort to preserve congressional and downballot races. But this looks like a one time deal.
If they honestly want to preserve the party, they should ride the Trump ticket and eat the losses for 2 years. Forget about being a President.
Yeah the 3rd party run seems like the most shortsighted avenue to me. It sends the message loud and clear that the "establishment" doesn't care about it's voters and gives them the biggest impetus to split.
"Secretary Clinton and I have had disagreements over how to achieve progress, but our ultimate goals are the same. On virtually every issue in this election, Donald Trump is wrong, and Hillary Clinton is right. Republicans stand for what is worst in America, Democrats stand for what is best. I have railed against the influence of corrupt and unscrupulous billionaires; Donald Trump is a corrupt and unscrupulous billionaire."
Ideally yeah
In all likelihood, the social branch dies off in less than a decade.
I still don't think the economic party would be competitive. The social stuff is currently being used to convince the white working class to vote against their own interests. If the republicans abandon it, they won't anymore. Which is kind of what's happening with Trump right now.
shinra-bansho
Member
I guess the Clinton campaign and DNC could draft something like that for him to say. I think most would agree that adaptability hasn't been his greatest forte during the primary. (And I actually don't think they like each other much privately.) So I don't know how emphatically he'd do this anyway.
Would thousands of people still show up to here him talk her up though rather than rail against her and the establishment? When her name is mentioned right now at those rallies there are loud boos throughout those crowds.
Would thousands of people still show up to here him talk her up though rather than rail against her and the establishment? When her name is mentioned right now at those rallies there are loud boos throughout those crowds.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Yeah, but on the other hand, if they abandon the social stuff, I think you'd see a realignment. They stand to get minority support, the gender gap narrows, etc.
For all his stubborness and bluster, I still belive Bernie will simply make nice with Clinton after he inevitably folds. He might make a small consession speech about dems being above what we see in the GOP, that we need unity in the face of Trump and bow out quietly. I don't expect him on her campaign trail any longer than it takes for him to assuage his voters.
I fully expect his supporters to go balls to the wall guns blazing to the end though.
Maybe I'm just being idealistic about the guy but we'll see. Whether you agree with him or not, the dude woke up a ton of young voters, for that much I'm thankful even if a lot just peel off from politics.
Hate to kill your optimism, but there's no way. The social part of conservatism has to be the strongest part by far. Look at Trump and Cruz voters for example
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/anti-donald-trump-demonstration-new-york-city
Yep NY's totally in play this November
Yep NY's totally in play this November
Poodlestrike
Banned
Yeah, but demographic shifts are rapidly making them obsolete.
Trump extols the virtues of Planned Parenthood, doesn't say a word about the gays, and tells stories about two Corinthians. Not the best example. Evangelicalism has become mingled with a weird American Nationalism; Trump is now explicitly preaching the gospel of American Empire and Evangelicals are lapping it up.
JesseEwiak
Member
The problem is, too much of the economic argument is still made on racist and sexist grounds - there's a reason why the fan club for true laissez fair capitalism is mostly white dudes. Of course, a reasonable center-right party could win votes among minorities communities if it stripped out the racist messages and made it slightly more compassionate - see the Conservative Party of Canada until the 2015 election. But, all the think tanks and donors want hardcore right wing economics.
On the gay marriage issue, yes. But, abortion is still a 50/50 issue, there's transgender rights, etc.
There will always be far more lower and middle class voters than wealthy ones. Tax breaks for the rich and deregulation are not winning strategies on their own.
VendettaRed07
Member
Just because I enjoy fanticizing about stuff that won't happen, let's say the Dems win 30+ seats and retake the house. What does Hillary focus on or pass in the first two years?
I feel like if we were able to pull that off, we need to avoid passing something that would end up being massively unpopular and will drive the opposition crazy and suffer another mid term slaughter like in 2010. Focus on legislation that will be popular.
Sensible minimum wage increase
Small business tax cuts/credits
Social Security/VA expansions
education/college/student debt reform
I think we need to stay away from Healthcare and immigration. Don't impose any sweeping or major legislation with either. Maybe minor stuff like the perscription drug price controls or something.. But pushing anything major in either area will probably lead to another mid term 2010 like devastation. They are too controversial and wind up the people that vote in midterms way too much. Id say go for it if the house can be retaken or is still there in a second term, but not the first. I don't want a repeat of this presidency in regards to congress
I feel like if we were able to pull that off, we need to avoid passing something that would end up being massively unpopular and will drive the opposition crazy and suffer another mid term slaughter like in 2010. Focus on legislation that will be popular.
Sensible minimum wage increase
Small business tax cuts/credits
Social Security/VA expansions
education/college/student debt reform
I think we need to stay away from Healthcare and immigration. Don't impose any sweeping or major legislation with either. Maybe minor stuff like the perscription drug price controls or something.. But pushing anything major in either area will probably lead to another mid term 2010 like devastation. They are too controversial and wind up the people that vote in midterms way too much. Id say go for it if the house can be retaken or is still there in a second term, but not the first. I don't want a repeat of this presidency in regards to congress
I honestly believe he could've put NY in play if he had done things a little differently. His politics are hated here but he is accepted as a genuine New Yorker; I think it's the violence that destroyed any viability he might have had.
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
If we win the house in 2016 we'd lose it again no matter what in 2018, so I say swing for the fences.
shinra-bansho
Member
I'd think immigration and criminal justice reform would be the best targets. Because consider the electoral ramifications of both.
VendettaRed07
Member
It's one thing to lose it in 2018, and another thing to lose 64+ seats.
Push stuff that helps seniors and veterans, and run on in 2018 "if the GOP really cared about our seniors in veterans, why didn't they do anything for them the past 6 years?" Etc. Stuff like that could help limit the damage significantly.
Rather than pass through legislation that is viewed as completely partisan, push through stuff that should be viewed as being completely bipartisan, but hasn't been due to the GOP going off the rails and really not caring or focusing on anything they say they are interesting in
User 463088
Banned
I agree. If we take the House in 2016, then push through whatever we can as big as we can. I definitely think we should push for Hillary's debt-free college plan. I'd also think she'd be willing to push for the public option at this point. Definitely on some of the drug cost programs she has. Push the Equality Act through Congress. I'd think we'd see something on paid family leave. She's made Alzheimer's disease a priority, so something to increase funding there, I should think.
If we did not pass ACA we still would have lost the house in 2010. Unemployment was 10.5% at the time.
If you are going to pass something, first help your Congressman and Senators survive reelection like automatic voter registration and all mail in. Court challenges to voter ID+gerrymandering next year and in 2018.
If you are going to pass something, first help your Congressman and Senators survive reelection like automatic voter registration and all mail in. Court challenges to voter ID+gerrymandering next year and in 2018.
If we take the House in 2016 then our number one goal must be to expand Democratic control for redistricting in 2018. Then gerrymander the shit out of the Republicans. If we can pull that off we'll have stacked the Supreme Court, have control of the White House, and also the Congress for a good decade or two.
shinra-bansho
Member
Lol. Basically she should do everything.
Criminal justice reform will only ever get done by Democrats as law and order Republicans will never allow them to move on it. This'll be the best shot at it for a long time so she should move on it, quickly.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
At least fill all the damn cabinet spots/ judicial appointees.
I'm referring to his "good old days" stuff about beating protesters and "the wall" anti-immigration, seems pretty racially charged
And within them there will always be far more temporarily embarrassed millionaires than there are self identified proletariat.
UltimaPooh
Member
Stop comparing him to Ron Paul. Jesus.
Yeah he's more like the liberal Tea Party.
UltimaPooh
Member
Try again?
Macho Madness
Member
One more episode of House of Cards and I can finally discuss it online
Truth hurts.
UltimaPooh
Member
Only if it's true. Junior.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
It's headed in that direction. They have not shut down the government to protest shit yet. They also have no one in office other than one senator.
UltimaPooh
Member
Whoa whoa here.
Are you telling me Bernie Sanders supporters only have one person named Bernie Sanders in the US government? Get out of here. I figured they would have tons of Bernie Sanderses at this point.
Basileus777
Member
Not really. I see comments like this and wonder if people have never seen a Presidential primary before.
Officerrob
Banned
What the hell is this?
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Oh quit being so obtuse
I'm talking ideologically.The movement could certainly dissappear after the primary. It shares quite a few similar traits I can't get into on my phone.
Basileus777
Member
Bernie Sanders is not the first candidate to be liked by young voters that don't create a lasting movement. There's not much meaningful similarity with the Tea Party here. That comparison is pretty lazy.
No, the goal should be getting rid of partisan gerrymandering. The entire process is inherently corrupt and needs to be fixed, not used to any parties' advantage.
It's unfortunate that this discussion could not remain civil.
I would agree, except the court has already ruled and there's plenty of precedent on this. I don't think we stand a good chance of overturning it even if we replace Scalia with a Garland or a Srinivasan. Republicans have been happy to wield gerrymandering against us since forever; we either fight back on equal terms or we get rolled over again and again.
That's not a meaningful way to dismiss his point, though I think he heavily exaggerated.
The campaign does have a bad look lately, especially the whole "let's convince superdelegates to swap to Bernie" shit is extremely weak.
This isn't fair, either. The Tea Party had an impact on government!
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked