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[Diablos]

He was banned.

Uh

 

[dramatis]

Where the hell have you been??

Still playing FFXIV?

Been back for a while

you slow bro

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Finally, we can bring out the reasonable adult to stop Donald Trump:

As a congressman in 1997, Coburn protested NBC's plan to air the R-rated Academy Award-winning Holocaust drama Schindler's List during prime time.[80] Coburn stated that, in airing the movie without editing it for television, TV had been taken "to an all-time low, with full-frontal nudity, violence and profanity."[81][82] He also said the TV broadcast should outrage parents and decent-minded individuals everywhere. Coburn described the airing of Schindler's List on television as "irresponsible sexual behavior. I cringe when I realize that there were children all across this nation watching this program."[83]

Coburn isn't interested either.

http://newsok.com/coburn-says-he-wo...ign=Feed:+newsok/home+(NewsOK.com+RSS+-+Home)

 

[Diablos]

Been back for a while

you slow bro

so slow

 

[QuiteWhittle]

Finally, we can bring out the reasonable adult to stop Donald Trump:

Funny how this guy is one of Obama's best friends.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Funny how this guy is one of Obama's best friends.

I really don't know how it happened, but life is full of mysteries.

 

[Diablos]

Anyone kind of feeling like this lately?

 

[User 463088]

Anyone kind of feeling like this lately?

Why do you have to show me that map again. Why?

 

[Azure Dream]

It's scary when he does this, using his microphone and podium to turn thousands of people on just one or two, often throwing in baseless insults and attacks along the way. His crowds are going to go too far one day (well, even further than they already go with elbow checks and yanking people), and all he'll say is "No no no no" and wag his finger, like that absolves him of guilt. And he'll probably get away with it.

Its getting more ugly

https://twitter.com/alex_satterly/status/711323486950596608

Well, that didn't take long.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

In his debate performances, interviews and speeches on foreign and economic policy, the vice president has repeatedly portrayed himself as a man who has come to believe in vigorous American intervention abroad, a reversal of Democratic philosophy for most of the time since the end of the war in Vietnam.

He describes how the experience of seeing the Clinton administration move too slowly to end the killing in Bosnia drove him to conclude that America must be prepared to prevent disaster, and how two successive global financial crises reshaped his understanding of the central role economic stability must play in the foreign policy agenda.

Mr. Bush has woven a middle ground between two battling factions of his party -- internationalists who support engagement with great powers like China and isolationists who are deeply suspicious of the United Nations, the International Monetary Fund and the World Trade Organization.

Drawing on the advice of Gen. Colin L. Powell, widely viewed as a potential secretary of state in a Bush administration, Mr. Bush is far more tentative about committing American troops and rules out their use for what he dismisses as nation building. ''There may be some moments when we use our troops as peacekeepers, but not often,'' he said in the final presidential debate. In the second debate he suggested a broader philosophical disagreement with Mr. Gore: ''I'm not so sure the role of the United States is to go around the world and say, 'This is the way it's got to be.' ''

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/10/30/w...vals-differ-us-role-world.html?pagewanted=all

Reminder that Trump will probably end up sending 300k ground troops to Iran no matter how "dovish" the guy who wants to commit 30k troops to Syria sounds right now.

 

[Diablos]

Why do you have to show me that map again. Why?

We're still living with the consequences. So fucked up.

 

[User 463088]

We're still living with the consequences. So fucked up.

I remember that night so vividly. My dad never cussed. He let out a stream of swears that would make a sailor blush. : sigh :

Then I remember going to school where everyone was so happy because they were all evangelicals. (It was a private school.) Ugh.

 

[GnawtyDog]

Was that a guy with a poster showing a confederate flag over Trump's face...and getting beaten up by a black Trump supporter?

...never let it be said that we're a monolith.

Truly crazy.....

 

[Cat]

The 2000 election was my first. *sigh* I voted Dem then and still vote Dem now though I think my political engagement has improved past showing up every 4 years for the top ticket.

Back then, I frequented a different forum, and I do remember some peers saying they would vote for Nader. I really didn't know what to expect.

 

[Box of Kittens]

We're still living with the consequences. So fucked up.

This is a big reason why it bothers me so much when people argue that we should let Trump beat Clinton because after four years of Trump we'll elect "a real progressive" and America will become a left-wing utopia. We're still paying the price for Bush's actions as president (not to mention his Supreme Court appointments).

 

[Macho Madness]

Bill should talk more about how he wants to break the first spouse glass ceiling.

 

[Cerium]

Why do you have to show me that map again. Why?

I still haven't forgiven New Hampshire. The great shame of the Northeast.

You did this New Hampshire!

 

[User 463088]

Bill should talk more about how he wants to break the first spouse glass ceiling.

I demand that someone ask him about cookie recipes and all the other bull shit Hillary had to deal with because of her gender. I demand it. I shall have...no satisfaction.

 

[benjipwns]

Nader voters get a bad rap for Gore's defeat in 2000 being all their fault.

The Natural Law Party, Workers World Party, Socialist Party and Socialist Workers Party all individually got more than the 537 "official" vote difference in Florida. (As did the Reform Party, Libertarian Party and Constitution Party.)

 

[User 463088]

Nader voters get a bad rap for Gore's defeat in 2000 being all their fault.

The Natural Law Party, Workers World Party, Socialist Party and Socialist Workers Party all individually got more than the 537 "official" vote difference in Florida. (As did the Reform Party, Libertarian Party and Constitution Party.)

I don't blame him entirely. There's plenty of blame to go around. Gore ran a shitty campaign all the way around. He pushed Clinton too far away. He had a shitty running mate. He couldn't carry his home state. And, ya, Nader didn't help.

 

[benjipwns]

The best part about 2000 is that had the Gore team got the recount they wanted (just four counties IIRC) he would have lost by even more.

The Bush teams' counterproposal (recount the whole state) they rejected would have given Florida to Gore.

If the Supreme Court's 7-2 holding on equal protection was the only ruling (which many justices including the late Scalia later admitted it should have been), they would have "stolen" the election for Gore.

 

[Makai]

Benji, any historical parallels with the impending contested convention?

 

[lenovox1]

I demand that someone ask him about cookie recipes and all the other bull shit Hillary had to deal with because of her gender. I demand it. I shall have...no satisfaction.

Bill Clinton did the Family Circle's First Lady cookie contest in 2008, and submitted a basic ass oatmeal cookie recipe. And I mean basic.

http://www.familycircle.com/recipe/cookies/bill-clintons-oatmeal-cookies/

I, mean, I know the man is a vegan, but damn.

 

[Grexeno]

Anyone kind of feeling like this lately?

God look at that map. Literally all Hillary has to to is win the Gore states + literally any swing state and bang.

 

[benjipwns]

Interestingly, in the other actually stolen election in 1876. The Democrats shot themselves in the foot yet again. They had picked an independent justice to be the deciding vote as the rest of the Commission was split evenly, but then Democrats in Illinois elected him to the Senate hoping to sway his vote, he promptly resigned to take the seat.

All the other justices left were Republicans. So the Commission voted 8-7 to steal the election for Hayes.

 

[Box of Kittens]

The 2000 election was my first. *sigh* I voted Dem then and still vote Dem now though I think my political engagement has improved past showing up every 4 years for the top ticket.

Back then, I frequented a different forum, and I do remember some peers saying they would vote for Nader. I really didn't know what to expect.

I was just too young to vote in 2000. I had somewhat bought into the media narrative that there wasn't really much difference between the candidates so I didn't feel very invested in the outcome at the time. Back then I would have called myself an "Independent" which was basically an intermediate stop on the journey from calling myself a Republican because my family was Republican to identifying as a Democrat.

The 2002 midterms were my first election. Having 2004 as my first presidential election was a painful experience. I still remember seeing the leaked exit polls and thinking "we've got this," then watching the actual returns and the realization of what was happening slowly sinking in as the results just weren't quite coming in. The next day I had dinner with a group of friends and it was a glum scene as we all grappled with what had just happened. I even remember avoiding any political coverage for several weeks afterward; it was just too painful. I can keep a more even keel about elections now, but the way my hopes were dashed that night was something I'll never forget.

 

[RustyNails]

Anyone kind of feeling like this lately?

http://i.imgur.com/iweAbVI.gif[/IM][/QUOTE]
I mean seriously, what kind of a knob loses his home state in a general. Still get fuckin livid thinking about that election.

 

[benjipwns]

Benji, any historical parallels with the impending contested convention?

I don't think a candidate has ever entered a convention with a majority of delegates or at least 95+% of needed and been denied. I still don't see the mechanism where the GOP manages it unless the race changes drastically from the current 40-30-20 state of things.

I was just too young to vote in 2000. I had somewhat bought into the media narrative that there wasn't really much difference between the candidates so I didn't feel very invested in the outcome at the time.

2000 was arguably the time this was most right, both candidates intentionally tried to minimize the differences between each others platforms. (And run away from their parties.) Gore had even been pro-choice for only a few years.

Hence, the SNL sketch.

*coughs* "That was not a sigh!"

 

[User 463088]

Bill Clinton did the Family Circle's First Lady cookie contest in 2008, and submitted a basic ass oatmeal cookie recipe. And I mean basic.

http://www.familycircle.com/recipe/cookies/bill-clintons-oatmeal-cookies/

I, mean, I know the man is a vegan, but damn.

He couldn't even eat those since they have egg in them. What a sad recipe. I mean, I hate the stereotype anyway that spouses have to be some type of domestic goddess...but come on, Bill. Get someone with some shit to make a good vegan, gluten free cookie.

I miss Gore's LOCKBOX from 2000.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

W's political philosophy is really bizarre though. Free market focused anti-interventionist turned chicken hawk Socialist. He's kind of like Trump in that he had no coherent philosophy of the world other than trying to accumulate power.

 

[benjipwns]

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/273626-the-chaos-scenario-for-democrats

It’s the scenario that Republicans dream of and Democrats believe is all but impossible: Hillary Clinton being forced to drop out of the presidential race due to criminal charges over her email server.

Any bombshell findings in the FBI’s investigation of Clinton could plunge the Democratic race into chaos.

Bernie Sanders could stand to gain. As the only other candidate in the Democratic race, the party could quickly coalesce around him in an effort to halt the bedlam. But that’s far from a sure thing, with many in the party fearful he would be a weak general election candidate.

Unlike the Republican Party, which binds most of its delegates to candidates regardless of delegates’ personal preferences, Democratic candidates have input on who represents them on the convention floor.

“There are no Clinton-bound delegates who would prefer voting for Sanders, for example,” delegate expert and University of Georgia professor Josh Putnam, told The Hill.

“Those folks are essentially hand-picked to be loyal. They are unlikely to stray.”

Then there are the superdelegates, the 712 Democratic Party leaders, including members of Congress, who have the freedom to support any candidate at the convention.

The superdelegates are supporting Clinton in droves right now — 95 percent of those who have expressed a preference have chosen Clinton. But they could desert Clinton just as emphatically if her candidacy came to the brink of imploding, some say.

“The superdelegates would flee first because they are politicians,” said one Democratic strategist who has worked on presidential campaigns.

“They are most likely to feel the pressure not to cast their ballots in favor of a nominee under indictment.”

If enough pledged Clinton delegates and superdelegates went to Sanders and delivered him 2,383 delegates, he would win the nomination.

But delegates could also coalesce around a new candidate not in the race. One likely fallback would be Vice President Biden, who came very close to running for president last year.

But denying Sanders the nomination could come with a heavy price, potentially alienating the millions of Democrats who cast ballots for him in the primary process.

“Most of these other politicians and political leaders in the community, they don’t really know Bernie Sanders because he’s never been a national Democrat,” the Democratic strategist said.

“They know Joe [Biden], they know John Kerry. It’s completely conceivable that they would turn from somebody they know and respect — Hillary — to somebody else they know and respect and bypass Sanders.”

So if the Democratic race ends up with its own contested convention, all bets are off on how it would conclude, since the final decision ultimately rests on the whims of the 4,765 delegates.

“It would be a s--tshow of the first order,” the Democratic strategist said.

Spoiler

 

[Box of Kittens]

I don't blame him entirely. There's plenty of blame to go around. Gore ran a shitty campaign all the way around. He pushed Clinton too far away. He had a shitty running mate. He couldn't carry his home state. And, ya, Nader didn't help.

Agreed. Gore had no business losing that election. I think Kerry, on the other hand, was an OK candidate. Nothing special, but not as bad as he's often portrayed. He basically did about as well as an average candidate should have that election, while Gore underperformed.

 

[benjipwns]

I miss Gore's LOCKBOX from 2000.

Jim, let me here tonight issue a warning to the enemies, or potential enemies, of the United States: you may think you know the location of the lockbox. Maybe you do. Or maybe that's a decoy. Or a dummy lockbox. Only the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, myself and Tipper are gonna know for sure.

 

[lenovox1]

I mean seriously, what kind of a knob loses his home state in a general. Still get fuckin livid thinking about that election.

Eh, I never blame him for that. TN has become more conservative with time and it was still very close with the growing suburban Nashville area deciding the election.

 

[johnsmith]

This is the "same since 92" map.

Gore dun fucked up, and Kerry did too. There should never be another Republican president for a long ass time, especially as long as they keep ignoring things like the 2012 autopsy.

 

[benjipwns]

Jim, may I make two closing statements?

 

[Cat]

I was just too young to vote in 2000. I had somewhat bought into the media narrative that there wasn't really much difference between the candidates so I didn't feel very invested in the outcome at the time. Back then I would have called myself an "Independent" which was basically an intermediate stop on the journey from calling myself a Republican because my family was Republican to identifying as a Democrat.

The 2002 midterms were my first election. Having 2004 as my first presidential election was a painful experience. I still remember seeing the leaked exit polls and thinking "we've got this," then watching the actual returns and the realization of what was happening slowly sinking in as the results just weren't quite coming in. The next day I had dinner with a group of friends and it was a glum scene as we all grappled with what had just happened. I even remember avoiding any political coverage for several weeks afterward; it was just too painful. I can keep a more even keel about elections now, but the way my hopes were dashed that night was something I'll never forget.

For the 2004 election, I remember hearing about problems with voting machines in Ohio and Keith Olbermann covering the issue. I latched onto that with hope that...I don't know...SOMETHING would be done. But there wasn't enough proof or enough to make the difference, so I took an extra day or two to accept the outcome.

 

[Abinash117]

It does seems like Hillary supporters does seem less enthusiastic, but I say that it really does seem like her voters aren't the ones that are visible on the internet as in some places the internet is dominated by young people and they seem to lean towards Sanders. But it is surprising to me that is some cases the young vote isn't as high to overcome Hillary in many states. I think Hillary has enthusiasm from supporters, but they aren't as passionate about it in the same way as Bernie's .

 

[User 463088]

Jim, may I make two closing statements?

As long as one of them is lockbox, I'll allow it.

 

[benjipwns]

This is the "same since 92" map.

Gore dun fucked up, and Kerry did too. There should never be another Republican president for a long ass time, especially as long as they keep ignoring things like the 2012 autopsy.

Census changes to the Electoral Votes....

NY, PA, MI, OH, and IL had a combined 117 EV's in 1992.

If trends from the 2010 and 2013 census estimates hold, they'll have a combined 99 EV's in 2024.

Texas alone will have 41 or more.

As long as one of them is lockbox, I'll allow it.

Strategery.

 

[Diablos]

This is a big reason why it bothers me so much when people argue that we should let Trump beat Clinton because after four years of Trump we'll elect "a real progressive" and America will become a left-wing utopia. We're still paying the price for Bush's actions as president (not to mention his Supreme Court appointments).

It's baffling logic. I presume most of it is peddled by people too young or ignorant to remember/understand what the Bush years meant.

 

[Makai]

So Benji, if they do manage to wrest the nomination from Trump or they run Jeb Bush as a third party against him...

Whigs 2.0?

 

[benjipwns]

In 1980, NY, PA, MI, OH, and IL had a combined 140 EV's and Reagan won every single one of them. Throw in Texas (26) and California (45) then Florida (17) and New Jersey (17) and he had 245 EV's from nine states.

The other 35 states he won gave him 244 EV's.

 

[shinra-bansho]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M_I_1BMtBx0

Two criminals discuss Christmas decorations in the White House.

Will Bill be in charge of this next year?

 

[RustyNails]

W's political philosophy is really bizarre though. Free market focused anti-interventionist turned chicken hawk Socialist. He's kind of like Trump in that he had no coherent philosophy of the world other than trying to accumulate power.

I never quite acknowledged that W was "in charge" of anything. Like, I always had this image that he never took anything seriously and even hated being the President. He would follow whatever Rummy told him about Iraq. He only listened to Brownie and his excuses for Katrina. There's never any inquiry as to why in anything. And then the financial crisis happens and he just approves the TARP. I don't know how much truth there is to that sentiment. I mostly blame David Letterman and his top 10 lists.

 

[Diablos]

In 1980, NY, PA, MI, OH, and IL had a combined 140 EV's and Reagan won every single one of them. Throw in Texas (26) and California (45) then Florida (17) and New Jersey (17) and he had 245 EV's from nine states.

The other 35 states he won gave him 244 EV's.

Southern states gaining EV's while most others lose is indeed going to hinder Democratic performance on the electoral map; however, demographics changes should ensure another red state or two switches to the reliably blue column (i.e. AZ, GA). TX could be a swing state in 10 years.

 

[ampere]

Anyone kind of feeling like this lately?

Should've asked Clinton to help him more

And why alternate party voters, why . Them thrown away votes, RIP

 

[Cerium]

I mean seriously, what kind of a knob loses his home state in a general.

Mitt Romney does.

 

[Wilsongt]

Mitt Romney does.

And Paul Ryan.

 

[Diablos]

Should've asked Clinton to help him more

And why alternate party voters, why . Them thrown away votes, RIP

Gore is an idiot politician, even bigger than I had thought when I was younger.

He definitely deserves credit for making his mark when it comes to climate change; it was probably the smartest thing he could have done after losing the election.

The irony is that he distanced himself from Clinton because of the Lewinsky scandal and then all these years later got a divorce with his wife. I believe there was some cheating going on.