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PoliGAF 2016 |OT3| You know what they say about big Michigans - big Florida

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S

Snowman Prophet of Doom

Member
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Trump is just a dumb, sexist asshole, mmkay.

I'm pretty sure he's not outsmarting Ted Cruz any time soon.
Click to expand...

I think you're underestimating him. He basically engineered a riot in Chicago so he could spend two weeks going on about all these authoritarian leftists trampling over his free speech rights, he figured out how to mobilize a consistent 40% of voters in state after state without offering a single realistic policy proposal and without organizing a ground game, has consistently baited other candidates into rhetorical traps in debates, etc. It's clear at this point that Trump has a nonpareil mind for marketing, at the very least, and that he knows how to play others like fiddles.
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
His argument, which he himself shouldn't be making but whatever, is that superdelegates in states he's won should support him because he won. And they should in states he hasn't won too because reasons.
 
A

ampere

Member
Plumbob said:
In what way does this map make any sense?
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Read the line above it. It was just a mental exercise of sorts showing the extreme scenario where Trump alienates all female voters.

Of course that won't be the real situation, but we can expect that he probably won't receive as many female votes as Romney did.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
ant1532 said:
He's not doing that. He's spoken about this already. He's actually trying to fight for the will of the people. Love how this keeps on getting spinned here on GAF. He's only speaking about trying to convince super delegates in states he wins who still want to vote hilary that they should vote to represent what their state's majority voted for.
Click to expand...

Which is neither the function nor purpose of Super Delegates. Following this logic, Bernie should lose 10 of his Super Delegates because they came from states/territories Hillary won.
 
C

Crocodile

Member
ant1532 said:
He's not doing that. He's spoken about this already. He's actually trying to fight for the will of the people. Love how this keeps on getting spinned here on GAF. He's only speaking about trying to convince super delegates in states he wins who still want to vote hilary that they should vote to represent what their state's majority voted for.
Click to expand...

That's not their job. Their job is to vote for who they personally think is best fit among running Democrats to get the nomination. They push the winning candidate over the edge to get the nomination and serve as a final check against a "Trump-like" situation. Clinton has a basically insurmountable pledged delegate lead - to try to argue that superdelegates should switch is arguing they should actively ignore both their own personal judgement AND (most important) the will of the voters across the country who gave her that delegate lead. It's a dumb, desperate argument and, at the very least, it shouldn't be coming from his own mouth.
 
W

watershed

Banned
ant1532 said:
He's not doing that. He's spoken about this already. He's actually trying to fight for the will of the people. Love how this keeps on getting spinned here on GAF. He's only speaking about trying to convince super delegates in states he wins who still want to vote hilary that they should vote to represent what their state's majority voted for.
Click to expand...

AND he said other superdelegates should flip to him once they look at how well he does in projected head to head match ups with Trump because he literally said head to head match ups with prospective GE opponents should be the most important factor superdelegates take into account when deciding who to support. Which is kind of odd considering he also said supers from states he won should support him. and supers from states Hillary won shouldn't support her.
 
C

Chichikov

Member
This might be worth its own thread, but fuck it.

Argentina 'Dirty War': Obama to release secret US files.

About fucking time, I'll be surprised if there's anything there that is not known (or at least suspected) but the US is way overdue on having a serious conversation about the bullshit it did in South and Central American in the 60s and 70s.
It's not only shameful, it's instructive to people who think that we should just trust our spy agencies and spooks because they totally know what they are doing.

Thanks Obama.

For people who goes "wait, what?" on all of that, start with the wiki entry on Operation Condor and work from there.
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
Macho Madness said:
Franklin & Marshall College Poll

Pennsylvania

Clinton 53
Sanders 28

Trump 33
Kasich 30
Cruz 20

Clinton demolishes Trump in the GE matchup
Click to expand...

After NY rolls around,
NJ, PA, RI, MD, RI are going to steamroll through and boost Hillary so high that Bernie will have to call it quits

uh nope, I am wrong,

Bernie thinks that all of California is a hive mind like the SF Bay area LOL forgetting about the existence of SoCal
 
A

ant1532

Banned
Crocodile said:
That's not their job. Their job is to vote for who they personally think is best fit among running Democrats to get the nomination. They push the winning candidate over the edge to get the nomination and serve as a final check against a "Trump-like" situation. Clinton has a basically insurmountable pledged delegate lead - to try to argue that superdelegates should switch is arguing they should actively ignore both their own personal judgement AND (most important) the will of the voters across the country who gave her that delegate lead. It's a dumb, desperate argument and, at the very least, it shouldn't be coming from his own mouth.
Click to expand...

First, he is NOT saying that they should switch if their majority voted against him. He is saying in states HE won.

Apparently there is a lack of understanding that super delegates aren't remote from the campaign process here at poligaf. Their job is to vote for who they personally think is best. Yes. There's a thing called a campaign process that is supposed to influence that. Candidates campaign for all votes, super delegates too. You think Hilary hasn't spoken with any super delegates?
watershed said:
AND he said other superdelegates should flip to him once they look at how well he does in projected head to head match ups with Trump because he literally said head to head match ups with prospective GE opponents should be the most important factor superdelegates take into account when deciding who to support. Which is kind of odd considering he also said supers from states he won should support him. and supers from states Hillary won shouldn't support her.
Click to expand...

This is wrong. he didn't say this. get your facts straight. he said in states HE won, if they are still voting against him and their's states majority vote, he will try to flip them to vote along with their state's majority.

source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfUWKky9RKg
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
DICKERSON: But if they didn’t — if they didn’t come from a state that you won, they shouldn’t feel compelled to go for you?

SANDERS: Well, that’s — legally, they have their own decision to be made. They have their own right to make that decision. But I would argue that many of these superdelegates, for them, what is most important, as it is for me and Secretary Clinton, by the way, is making sure that no Republican occupies the White House. And if people conclude by the end of this campaign, if we have the energy — and it’s an if — if we win a number of states — that’s also an if — but if that is the factor, and it appears that I am the stronger candidate against Trump, I think you’re going to see some superdelegates saying, you know what? I like Hillary Clinton, but I want to win this thing. Bernie is our guy.
Click to expand...

#willofthepeople
 
M

mo60

Member
Macho Madness said:
Nate Silver has released his electoral map projection if women decided not to vote for Donald "All of the women on The Apprentice flirted with me" Trump entirely:

CeSbXNiWsAA4lhK.jpg:large
Click to expand...

That would be the best election result for any party in the US ever. What would the popular vote be if that actually happened in this election. Would it be over 80% for Hilary? I don''t think this will happen and I think the dems will be capped in the high 400's for electoral votes in this election.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
ivysaur12 said:
So, the last two Kirkpatrick/McCain polls have McCain only up by 1.

Could this... be a thing?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure the universe loves us that much....but with Trump at the top of the ticket, and an increased turnout among Latino voters....tie the bloated corpse of Trump around all their necks, and we'll see what happens.
 
W

watershed

Banned
ant1532 said:
First, he is NOT saying that they should switch if their majority voted against him. He is saying in states HE won.

Apparently there is a lack of understanding that super delegates aren't remote from the campaign process here at poligaf. Their job is to vote for who they personally think is best. Yes. There's a thing called a campaign process that is supposed to influence that. Candidates campaign for all votes, super delegates too. You think Hilary hasn't spoken with any super delegates?


This is wrong. he didn't say this. get your facts straight. he said in states HE won, if they are still voting against him and their's states majority vote, he will try to flip them to vote along with their state's majority.

source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfUWKky9RKg
Click to expand...

Someone else has already posted the direct quote, Sanders has continued to push the idea that his numbers against Trump should compel superdelegates to switch to him. He has said it a number of times now, not just once. He is even getting more specific. I can't find the link but Sanders had a sit down interview with a bunch of editors of major papers in California recently and actually recited poll numbers as part of his strategy for why superdelegates (not just those from states he won) should support him over Hillary.
 
C

Crocodile

Member
ant1532 said:
First, he is NOT saying that they should switch if their majority voted against him. He is saying in states HE won.

Apparently there is a lack of understanding that super delegates aren't remote from the campaign process here at poligaf. Their job is to vote for who they personally think is best. Yes. There's a thing called a campaign process that is supposed to influence that. Candidates campaign for all votes, super delegates too. You think Hilary hasn't spoken with any super delegates?


This is wrong. he didn't say this. get your facts straight. he said in states HE won, if they are still voting against him and their's states majority vote, he will try to flip them to vote along with their state's majority.

source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfUWKky9RKg
Click to expand...

Superdelegates don't work if they aren't independent from the will of the state they represent. Otherwise they would just be regular delegates. "Vote the same way your State voted" is a hollow argument. At that point what becomes his argument? Superdelegates aren't going to vote against the person with the most pledged delegates unless they are a nutcase (see Trump). He can't argument he has the momentum or mandate when he's is behind in pledged delegates. Turnout has been down or stagnant for the vast majority of Democratic primaries/caucuses - there is no "revolution". He's failed to connect with key demographics of the Obama coalition (minorities). Arguing he does better in GE polls is near worthless considering he's never been attacked from his right on the national scale whereas Clinton has for the past 25+ years. It was his choice to be an independent/"lone-wolf" in the Senate and not build those party relationships that may have helped him woo superdelegates. He's just flailing at this point - he has no convincing argument to sway any superdelegates so it comes off as desperate noise making.

johnsmith said:
So 3 people were arrested on Saturday in AZ. 2 were white guys and were released right away. The woman was detained overnight and sent to ICE, despite being a US citizen. She is Hispanic.
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2016/03/21/3761978/trump-arizona-protest/
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Yeah I mentioned this a few times in this thread. She's actually an acquaintance/friend of mine from High School. She's always been a "fight the power" kind of person from the day I met her.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
so trump basically argued "my wife is hot and yours is not," this evening.

This is the likely GOP nominee.

I never thought we'd ever get to this point in my life.

My god is he fucking sexist. That shit was gross.

After my girlfriend found out, she had enough. She's voting for the first time in her life because of Trump.
 
U

User1608

Banned
Crocodile said:
Yeah I mentioned this a few times in this thread. She's actually an acquaintance/friend of mine from High School. She's always been a "fight the power" kind of person from the day I met her.
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I hope your friend will be okay and remains well. Really sorry that happened to her. She's strong!!!!
Black Mamba said:
so trump basically argued "my wife is hot and yours is not," this evening.

This is the likely GOP nominee.

I never thought we'd ever get to this point in my life.

My god is he fucking sexist. That shit was gross.

After my girlfriend found out, she had enough. She's voting for the first time in her life because of Trump.
Click to expand...
Trump is a fucking caricature, cartoon of a human being. His existence is so surreal in itself. From cheering him on in his WWE feud 9 years ago to this.

Life is weird.
 
B

Brinbe

Member
Never thought I'd have the smallest amount of empathy for Ted fucking Cruz but Trump finds a way.

Then I just heard him on CNN talk about Democrats being politically correct on terror and all that quickly went away.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
No need to feel sympathy or empathy for Ted Cruz. It's his wife whom I feel for because she was the actual target of the attack, not him.

So don't worry, no need to feel bad for Ted.


I really hope Trump gets eviscerated in the general. ignoring the benefits to the Dems and society at large, aside, it would at least be a powerful statement against his bullshit. I remember how Todd Akin got destroyed after his comments and I hope the same thing happens to Trump. A complete repudiation of him.

Plus, since he's so thin skinned, he would absolutely stew over a demolition.
 
A

ant1532

Banned
shinra-bansho said:
#willofthepeople
Click to expand...

don't see a good case on how this quote is against the "#willofthepeople"
also talking about the willofthepeople when talking about democratic super delegates is silly.

Crocodile said:
Superdelegates don't work if they aren't independent from the will of the state they represent. Otherwise they would just be regular delegates. "Vote the same way your State voted" is a hollow argument. At that point what becomes his argument? Superdelegates aren't going to vote against the person with the most pledged delegates unless they are a nutcase (see Trump). He can't argument he has the momentum or mandate when he's is behind in pledged delegates. Turnout has been down or stagnant for the vast majority of Democratic primaries/caucuses - there is no "revolution". He's failed to connect with key demographics of the Obama coalition (minorities). Arguing he does better in GE polls is near worthless considering he's never been attacked from his right on the national scale whereas Clinton has for the past 25+ years. It was his choice to be an independent/"lone-wolf" in the Senate and not build those party relationships that may have helped him woo superdelegates. He's just flailing at this point - he has no convincing argument to sway any superdelegates so it comes off as desperate noise making.
Click to expand...
"Turnout has been down or stagnant for the vast majority of demo primaries" is wrong. It's been a record high at 11.7%(this number may have increased actually) which is the highest since 1992 with the exception of the historical 2008 obama campaign. Saying there is no revolution is to completely disregard the progress of Sanders campaign especially against the Clinton name. Saying he's never been attacked and clinton has for 25 years doesn't help your argument in trying to say she would fare better against the republicans.
watershed said:
Someone else has already posted the direct quote, Sanders has continued to push the idea that his numbers against Trump should compel superdelegates to switch to him. He has said it a number of times now, not just once. He is even getting more specific. I can't find the link but Sanders had a sit down interview with a bunch of editors of major papers in California recently and actually recited poll numbers as part of his strategy for why superdelegates (not just those from states he won) should support him over Hillary.
Click to expand...
poligaf loves to repudiate the GE polls are worthless but don't follow up ever on why Hilary would fare better than Sanders in the GE.
 
C

Cerium

Member
ant1532 said:
"Turnout has been down or stagnant for the vast majority of demo primaries" is wrong. It's been a record high at 11.7%(this number may have increased actually) which is the highest since 1992 with the exception of the historical 2008 obama campaign. Saying there is no revolution is to completely disregard the progress of Sanders campaign especially against the Clinton name.
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That's exactly what we're doing.

There is no revolution.

That's a whole lot of words you use to admit that turnout is down since the last contested primary.

ant1532 said:
poligaf loves to repudiate the GE polls are worthless but don't follow up ever on why Hilary would fare better than Sanders in the GE.
Click to expand...

She's not trying to drastically raise middle class taxes and she's not on tape praising communist dictators.

I don't even know why I'm responding to this shit anymore it's such a waste of time.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
We make fun of the Bernie "revolution" because he's been crushed in the popular vote like 60-40. He's like 3.5 million votes behind Hillary.

There's no revolution. There's a fart in the wind.

And yes, we've expounded on why Hilary would fare better than Bernie. Over and over again.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
ant1532 said:
poligaf loves to repudiate the GE polls are worthless but don't follow up ever on why Hilary would fare better than Sanders in the GE.
Click to expand...

Because she has the party apparatus behind her. She's shown she has a better ground game, as evidenced by her wins and margins. She's not a socialist. She has decades worth of connections where it matters, with unions, with advocacy groups, with liberal organizations who have pledged their support to her. She's received millions of more votes i the primary than Bernie has. She has far more foreign policy experience and credentials than Bernie has. She has the political capital to spend to actually try and get some things passed Congress. She's been raising money for down ballot Democrats, unlike Bernie. The GOP hasn't even touched Bernie yet, but after 25 years of their smears, Hillary's still standing strong and still out polling their front runner. .
 
A

ant1532

Banned
Cerium said:
That's exactly what we're doing.

There is no revolution.

That's a whole lot of words you use to admit that turnout is down since the last contested primary.



She's not trying to drastically raise middle class taxes and she's not on tape praising communist dictators.
Click to expand...
ahahaha drastically raise middle class taxes and praise of communist dictators. wow. im done. apparently trump has an account.
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
ant1532 said:
don't see a good case on how this quote is against the "#willofthepeople"
also talking about the willofthepeople when talking about democratic super delegates is silly.
Click to expand...
ant1532 said:
He's not doing that. He's spoken about this already. He's actually trying to fight for the will of the people. Love how this keeps on getting spinned here on GAF. He's only speaking about trying to convince super delegates in states he wins who still want to vote hilary that they should vote to represent what their state's majority voted for.
Click to expand...
Like literally a page ago. Am I being trolled. Is that a wise thing to do.
 
J

JesseEwiak

Member
ant1532 said:
poligaf loves to repudiate the GE polls are worthless but don't follow up ever on why Hilary would fare better than Sanders in the GE.
Click to expand...

Because Hillary wouldn't be hit with billions of dollars in adds telling middle class suburban voters in swing states about how Bernie Sanders, the Senator from Moscow, wants to take away the private insurance you've bled, sweat, and worked for and instead, make you have government insurance at the same level of lazy welfare cheats who've done nothing in their lives and he wants to raise your taxes to do it!
 
D

danm999

Member
ant1532 said:
ahahaha drastically raise middle class taxes and praise of communist dictators. wow. im done. apparently trump has an account.
Click to expand...

What sort of ads do you think the GOP would run in say, Florida, with those two points of attack in the GE?

It'd make what Clinton did to him in the primary look like a neck and neck race.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
ant1532 said:
ahahaha drastically raise middle class taxes and praise of communist dictators. wow. im done. apparently trump has an account.
Click to expand...

He praised Fidel Castro in the 1980s and a few weeks ago he failed to admit he was wrong. He also praised the Sandinistas. By his own admission, he said he's going to raise taxes on everyone.
 
C

Cerium

Member
I guess he went back to the magical land of Reddit where none of this is real and Comrade Bernie is giving away free shit with no taxes.
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
I'm just trying to grasp what exactly it is you're on about if you are actually trying to engage in any sort of discussion. Because I'm not sure why else someone would try to make some sort of flawed point. Get shown the flaw. And then completely ignore what they tried to do being disproven.

It's not some fight for democracy. Because the will of the people only apparently matters in places he won. Where she won, well they should choose him and ignore the voters.

It's a desperation play thought up by his idiot staff like Tad Devine.
 
W

watershed

Banned
ant1532 said:
No you're not being trolled. Real cool mod move throwing out low key threats though.
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I think you have a problem of your political beliefs or ideology shielding you from reality. You seem unable to accept facts, like words that came directly out of Bernie's mouth or his explicit policy proposals.
 
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