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PoliGAF 2016 |OT3| You know what they say about big Michigans - big Florida

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ampere

Member
Homeopathy, GMOs, and Vaccines. Those are non-starters.

Also the foreign policy is a bit.. concerning. Of course I don't want us involved in shit we shouldn't be involved in. But when our allies are calling for it, come on.

There's more but to me it's the progressive version of libertarianism. Bunch of stuff.

Idk if they are anti-vaxx, but there's definitely homeopathy and anti-GMO sentiment in their platform.

It's not a realistic platform and honestly the "green party" would be better off as a lobbying group trying to work on specific issues than actually running for office. No idea why they try to be a political party.
 
SOON

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Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
So you go to the convention? Congrats

Not as coveted as the GOP Dumpster Fire™ Convention. But far safer.

Plus, you get to say you were there when the first women president was nominated.
 
Guess I'm going to have to do more of these...


5/6 delegates from my precinct were for Bernie.

One of the speeches were essentially this (spit into three different opportunities): 'I believe that Trump is taking advantage of Testosterone. I'm getting older and I don't want big change. I'm tired of old white men'.

There were some equivalently depthless statements from Sanders supporters: 'Hillary too divisive!'

Mostly though people were all expressive in support for whichever candidate.

Homeopathy, GMOs, and Vaccines. Those are non-starters.

Also the foreign policy is a bit.. concerning. Of course I don't want us involved in shit we shouldn't be involved in. But when our allies are calling for it, come on.

There's more but to me it's the progressive version of libertarianism. Bunch of stuff.

likely going to reassess my previous assessment of a potential green party presidential vote now.
 
Guess I'm going to have to do more of these...



5/6 delegates from my precinct were for Bernie.

One of the speeches were essentially this (spit into three different opportunities): 'I believe that Trump is taking advantage of Testosterone. I'm getting older and I don't want big change. I'm tired of old white men'.

There were some equivalently depthless statements from Sanders supporters: 'Hillary too divisive!'

Mostly though people were all expressive in support for whichever candidate.

Yeah from what I gathered anecdotally from Twitter is that most arguments were spirited and nobody wants Trump.
 

noshten

Member
Mostly though people were all expressive in support for whichever candidate.

Cool, it appears the vocal minority are greatly exaggerated

A man called Gregory raised eyebrows by arguing on behalf of Clinton on the grounds that men are not up to the task of governing.

“It’s a clearly stated, scientifically proven that men can’t multitask,” he said. It did little good. As the votes came in, Sanders took precinct after precinct - some by margins of 10 to one or more, others with a slim majority. But he was the clear winner at Hudson’s Bay high school.

lol
 
The Green Party wanting to dismantle all of our nukes before Russia does seems like a, uhh, really bad idea.

And, uhh, don't know how our allies will feel about us renegotiating all of our trade deals....
 
More people comment on my Game of Thrones Hillary shirt than my Yassss Hillary shirt. Also, is GOT something people are supposed to actually enjoy?
 

Iolo

Member
The Green Party wanting to dismantle all of our nukes before Russia does seems like a, uhh, really bad idea.

I would be ok with reducing our nukes to 100-200 unilaterally based on some recommendations in the arms control community. But you will never get elected on this platform (which sums up the Green Party in a nutshell).
 

Holmes

Member
Maybe Clinton should start actually trying again instead of just making like one public appearance in a delegate-rich state 5 whole days before caucus day. At least caucuses are pretty more or less done after today save for Wyoming, Puerto Rico and other territories.
 

Iolo

Member
Maybe Clinton should start actually trying again instead of just making like one public appearance in a delegate-rich state 5 whole days before caucus day. At least caucuses are pretty more or less done after today save for Wyoming, Puerto Rico and other territories.

She probably could have spent more money on ads and sent more surrogates too. You have to win the primary before you can worry about the general.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
More people comment on my Game of Thrones Hillary shirt than my Yassss Hillary shirt. Also, is GOT something people are supposed to actually enjoy?

From what I can tell, yes. I don't mind it, but the whole thing is rather predictable once you latch onto the fact Martin is just subverting standard genre expectations. He never really subverts the subversion so it gets rather easy to predict how it's going to progress.

Don't bother reading it though, the prose is dreadful.
 
I would be ok with reducing our nukes to 100-200 unilaterally based on some recommendations in the arms control community. But you will never get elected on this platform (which sums up the Green Party in a nutshell).

Getting our nuke stockpile to 200 is fine, we could still destroy half the world with that many.

Reducing our nuke stockpile to 0 though......................
 

pigeon

Banned
She probably could have spent more money on ads and sent more surrogates too. You have to win the primary before you can worry about the general.

Not to be one of those guys, but, like, she did win the primary? She's 300 delegates ahead!

Like the absolute minimum she can do to not lose the nomination is something like keep CA and NY within ten points and lose everything else.

That is not a high bar!
 
The Green Party wanting to dismantle all of our nukes before Russia does seems like a, uhh, really bad idea.

And, uhh, don't know how our allies will feel about us renegotiating all of our trade deals....

Out of a morbid sense of curiosity what's their position on nuclear power?

More people comment on my Game of Thrones Hillary shirt than my Yassss Hillary shirt. Also, is GOT something people are supposed to actually enjoy?

Apparently. No idea why though.
 
Assuming her only win is +8 in Hawaii and that she loses AK by 60, WA by 30, WI by 8, and WY by 50...

...then Clinton only needs to win NY by 20 to immediately wipe out that entire delegate gain. And she's probably winning the state by more.
 
The Greens want to get rid of all of them? That's so dangerous... Didn't they watch Armageddon?

Greens are a funnel for people who want to see the DNC's platform move in a particular direction, so slamming their policy platforms on the specifics when it's not as though it's been hammered out with nearly the same level of input, oversight, contention, and expertise as the major parties' probably misses the forest for the trees.
 
From what I can tell, yes. I don't mind it, but the whole thing is rather predictable once you latch onto the fact Martin is just subverting standard genre expectations. He never really subverts the subversion so it gets rather easy to predict how it's going to progress.

Don't bother reading it though, the prose is dreadful.

Yeah, the novels seemed like they might be something really interesting in the genre ala Gene Wolfe, but instead it turned out to be only partially novel structurally. I haven't read the latest book, but the fourth one showed his success is more due to luck than massive artistic talent. They're a decent exercise or airplane read, though it reminds me a lot of Redwall....
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Greens are a funnel for people who want to see the DNC's platform move in a particular direction, so slamming their policy platforms on the specifics when it's not as though it's been hammered out with nearly the same level of input, oversight, contention, and expertise as the major parties' probably misses the forest for the trees.

If that's their goal they'd be better off as a lobbying group than a 3rd party. They might actually get something done that way.
 
Assuming her only win is +8 in Hawaii and that she loses AK by 60, WA by 30, WI by 8, and WY by 50...

...then Clinton only needs to win NY by 20 to immediately wipe out that entire delegate gain. And she's probably winning the state by more.
How many delegates does Maryland carry? I thought that state would equalize her numbers, not NY.
 

noshten

Member
Maybe Clinton should start actually trying again instead of just making like one public appearance in a delegate-rich state 5 whole days before caucus day. At least caucuses are pretty more or less done after today save for Wyoming, Puerto Rico and other territories.

Its good you brought that up since a lot of people were vocal about Sanders abandoning Texas, Georgia, Virginia, Alabama, Arkansas & Tennessee. Clinton pretty much abandoned all caucus states after Super Tuesday.
 

pigeon

Banned
Its good you brought that up since a lot of people were vocal about Sanders abandoning Texas, Georgia, Virginia, Alabama, Arkansas & Tennessee. Clinton pretty much abandoned all caucus states after Super Tuesday.

I think you're missing the point of that complaint, though. Sanders didn't give up on a bunch of states, he gave up on Democratic voters of color. The two are pretty different! Nobody cares about a bunch of states. The campaign strategy that doing so describes is important.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Its good you brought that up since a lot of people were vocal about Sanders abandoning Texas, Georgia, Virginia, Alabama, Arkansas & Tennessee. Clinton pretty much abandoned all caucus states after Super Tuesday.

Well that's because she won and is saving money for the general.
 
She probably could have spent more money on ads and sent more surrogates too. You have to win the primary before you can worry about the general.
She invested a lot in ads and organization in CO and MN and still got blown out by 20+ points. Caucuses are just really inhospitable to her. It's kind of incredible she ever managed to win Iowa.
 

Iolo

Member
Not to be one of those guys, but, like, she did win the primary? She's 300 delegates ahead!

Like the absolute minimum she can do to not lose the nomination is something like keep CA and NY within ten points and lose everything else.

That is not a high bar!

Yes, we all know the math is inescapable, but it would have been nice to wrap this up before June.
 

dramatis

Member
I'm surprised people are so optimistic on both sides.

I'm pessimistic about Bernie's ability to overcome Hillary's delegate lead. But I'm also not optimistic about how large Hillary's margins will be—I don't think they'll be nearly as significant as people here think.

Where is everyone getting all this optimism? I freaking save it for the general where I need it more!
 
Immigration and particularly the large number of undocumented immigrants in the U.S. has become a hot political issue. Laws to oppress immigrants have been proposed in the Congress. Millions of immigrants and supporters of justice for immigrants have marched in the streets. Politicians have stirred up anti-immigrant sentiment among sections of the U.S. population.

It also must be acknowledged that the trigger for such an influx of immigrants in this country has been largely due to unfair US trade policies. If it were economically possible to provide for their families many would choose to remain in their native countries. Any immigration policy should be seen a way to address all people's humanitarian needs as we undo the damage to local communities and chart a course toward sustainable local economies.

Guys.

Guys.

Check this out.

Chinese workers in the past days of limited trade made $300.

$300 a year.

"Unfair trade deals" are not why African and Asian countries are so poor.

The understandable concern about immigrant workers competing for jobs with current citizens cannot and should not be addressed by criminalizing undocumented immigration or punishing fellow victims of U.S. corporatist policies. Instead, we must reverse these policies. Among other things, we should repeal NAFTA, CAFTA, Fast Track and other corporate globalization policies. We must stop using our tax dollars to subsidize corporate agribusiness and to promote poverty in Latin America, and start using them to help reward environmentally responsible family farmers, encourage improved infrastructure and economic conditions in Latin America, and raise labor standards, at home and abroad. Here at home, we must also promote the policies, as outlined in the Economy and Workers' Rights sections of this Platform, that can help us achieve a full employment economy at a living wage, including strictly enforcing and expanding the rights of all workers to form unions.

The hard left is soooooooo stupid economically.
 
I think you're missing the point of that complaint, though. Sanders didn't give up on a bunch of states, he gave up on Democratic voters of color. The two are pretty different! Nobody cares about a bunch of states. The campaign strategy that doing so describes is important.

did he? I think that's you inferring that from the states that he visited as compared with his message?

To me this sounds like you're saying what you want to hear instead of listening to the rallies and message given. Not to say I'm not the same way.
 
Assuming her only win is +8 in Hawaii and that she loses AK by 60, WA by 30, WI by 8, and WY by 50...

...then Clinton only needs to win NY by 20 to immediately wipe out that entire delegate gain. And she's probably winning the state by more.

Yes but if Bernie does that and also wins NY by 20 then Hillary is in serious trouble. It goes both ways.
 
I'm surprised people are so optimistic on both sides.

I'm pessimistic about Bernie's ability to overcome Hillary's delegate lead. But I'm also not optimistic about how large Hillary's margins will be—I don't think they'll be nearly as significant as people here think.

Where is everyone getting all this optimism? I freaking save it for the general where I need it more!

I mean, in my case my margins might actually be pessimistic in both Wisconsin and New York (and at this point those are the only two states I'm really focusing on)

Yes but if Bernie does that and also wins NY by 20 then Hillary is in serious trouble. It goes both ways.

Of course! It's just that one of these things happening would be routine, while the other thing happening would be less likely at this point than all of my limbs separately being struck by lightning in a one-minute period.
 
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