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PoliGAF 2016 |OT3| You know what they say about big Michigans - big Florida

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It's essentially this article: https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...d69b7a-f297-11e5-85a6-2132cf446d0a_story.html

In particular, the Clinton forces have been careful not to be seen as pushing Sanders to quit the race. A group of pro-Clinton senators recently considered writing an open letter to Sanders saying the time had come for him to end his campaign. But when two Clinton allies, Sens. Charles E. Schumer (N.Y.) and Barbara A. Mikulski (Md.), caught wind of the idea, they persuaded their colleagues to nix it, according to two people familiar with the letter.

Sanders was born and raised in Brooklyn and plans to highlight his “New York values,” Devine said, and the campaign’s ads would have “a good feel for the state.” Sanders also is likely to go after Clinton over her ties to Wall Street, an issue he has raised for several months now, and Devine said the team is testing attacks on other issues, including fracking.

“The basic frame of his whole campaign — the economy’s rigged, the campaign finance system is corrupt — will continue, but there are other issues as well,” Devine said. “Fracking is something New York state has outlawed and there’s a big difference between Hillary and Bernie.”

Isn't her fracking plan "I'm glad New York did it and other states should evaluate accordingly"???
 

noshten

Member
#StonersForBernie explains the yuge win in WA - I think he did what some though impossible and got a lot of really high people at a caucus voting for him. Eatables - they last a long time.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Philip Rucker ‏@PhilipRucker 53m53 minutes ago
Sanders to run hard in N.Y., hoping to embarrass Clinton with home turf upset. He’s weighing Wall St & fracking hits http://wapo.st/1pDkm35

He acts like we didn't already ban fracking last summer. Running against fracking in a state that's already banned it is stupid.

Isn't her fracking plan "I'm glad New York did it and other states should evaluate accordingly"???

Yes. This isn't an issue that will win him the state. It doesn't even affect like 60% of the population. Plus we already banned it!
 

CCS

Banned
Sanders needed to focus on NY earlier in the week. Switching focus now, it's after registration deadlines so all he can do is win over already registered voters, which is likely to be a harder task than convincing previously independent/non-affiliated voters, his best constituency, to vote.
 
Hillary is the last person who can ask Bernie to step aside. She'll just keep running where she needs to and ensure she gets enough delegates. She asks him to quit, she'd look like a hypocrite. Trivialities of her being way ahead aren't enough to make it okay for her to call for him to drop. It also looks bad if her campaign does it too, even if it's through surrogates.
 
He acts like we didn't already ban fracking last summer. Running against fracking in a state that's already banned it is stupid.

The thinking is then that it will be familiar territory to him because he has the same idea for the whole country. What's your take on that?
 
Man your friend is going to turn on President Sanders so fast.
I think a great deal of peoples' political maturity and awareness comes from

1) realizing that every politician is a flawed human being. There is no savior, and we should be skeptical of every single one of them

2) realizing this can be used to our advantage if a politician demonstrates flexibility in their governance because the people can sway them in one direction or another (complaints about "Hillary only supports X because it's popular" well fucking duh, welcome to democracy)

3) realizing our system is designed so that one person alone does not have unquestioned power to do what they want, no matter what level of government they're at. A president still needs the consent of a 218 Congresspeople, 60 (50+1 in theory) senators to enact legislation and agreement from 5 Supreme Court justices to uphold it. All of whom the above also apply to

That's it. People sought a Messiah in Obama and now in Sanders. They're bound to be disappointed.

The irony is that Sanders is touting a "revolution" but it's one that he's carrying out entirely through the system he accuses of being broken. Getting people to turn out at the polls, lobby their representatives and donate money to progressive candidates is basic civic participation. It's only revolutionary because no one fucking does it.
 
Bernies NY HQ is right down the street from me in gowanus. I want to go volunteer just for the chicks. I walked by their opening party. Better looking than the girls at Hillary HQ (who to be fair are like 70)
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
The thinking is then that it will be familiar territory to him because he has the same idea for the whole country. What's your take on that?

Fracking only ever affected like 10% of the state's population. While there was a push to ban it, it was never a humongous issue. If he tries to paint Hillary as trying to bring it back, which I'm assuming he will otherwise this strategy makes no sense, it will backfire on him incredibly hard. It just makes no sense as a line of attack, upstate isn't nearly populous enough to win him the primary. Even if he sweeps upstate, the city will crush him if he doesn't at least split the vote.
 
Attacking Wall Street hard in New York would be blitheringly stupid, but then it is his thing so he doesn't have too many other options.

It would be even more stupid to suddenly go silent on the number one issue your campaign has been based around and totally undermine your image of consistency. Hitting wall street may not be great in New York, but it would probably tarnish his legacy forever if he went limp on wall street just because NY was about to vote.

If anything, he should give a speech right in front of the bull statue.
 
Sanders needed to focus on NY earlier in the week. Switching focus now, it's after registration deadlines so all he can do is win over already registered voters, which is likely to be a harder task than convincing previously independent/non-affiliated voters, his best constituency, to vote.
Sanders people have been doing a lot of registering last month. I saw a lot of them in Brooklyn. Just saw a Williamsburg stand Friday at the Bedford L stop lol. Aka hipster central.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
I still think ultimately this is really good. The campaign infrastructure will be built in all 50 states. If Bernie goes excessively negative on Hillary, I think that would be unwise, but I mean his advisors are Weaver and Devine so.

I can't believe NY moved to April. I really am blown away by this. This shit is going to go on for another fucking month.
 

pigeon

Banned
The thinking is then that it will be familiar territory to him because he has the same idea for the whole country. What's your take on that?

I don't see how that helps him win New York, though. Like spell out the thought process that theoretically gets a New Yorker from:

1. We banned fracking.
2. Sanders wants to ban fracking.
3. ???
4. I will support Sanders.
 
I don't see how that helps him win New York, though. Like spell out the thought process that theoretically gets a New Yorker from:

1. We banned fracking.
2. Sanders wants to ban fracking.
3. ???
4. I will support Sanders.

"You guys are smart because you banned fracking, so continue being smart and support the guy who also does"

I don't know, it is a weird thing.
 
Yo B-dubs and makai there's gonna be a Brooklyn young dems watch party for the new York primary returns

You guy (and any other poligaffers in NYC) should come.
 
Fracking only ever affected like 10% of the state's population. While there was a push to ban it, it was never a humongous issue. If he tries to paint Hillary as trying to bring it back, which I'm assuming he will otherwise this strategy makes no sense, it will backfire on him incredibly hard. It just makes no sense as a line of attack, upstate isn't nearly populous enough to win him the primary. Even if he sweeps upstate, the city will crush him if he doesn't at least split the vote.
No but Hillary secretly supports fracking, just like she supports everything I'm against.

tumblr_n8z4jjABDx1rylr5to1_500.gif
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
I don't see how that helps him win New York, though. Like spell out the thought process that theoretically gets a New Yorker from:

1. We banned fracking.
2. Sanders wants to ban fracking.
3. ???
4. I will support Sanders.

This isn't that hard.

1. We banned fracking.
2. I want fracking banned everywhere
3. Sanders wants to ban fracking everywhere.
4. I will support Sanders.

The question is more do NY voters nationalize their perspective. I'd say the percentage of NY primary voters who are registered Dems and care about fracking is probably pretty small. This is really an irrelevant issue here.

I think his best angle would be to pretend it's South Carolina and play up support for minority rights. I think the Wall Street attacks have limited appeal here, and not just because Wall Street actually IS here.
 
I still think ultimately this is really good. The campaign infrastructure will be built in all 50 states. If Bernie goes excessively negative on Hillary, I think that would be unwise, but I mean his advisors are Weaver and Devine so.

I can't believe NY moved to April. I really am blown away by this. This shit is going to go on for another fucking month.

The 50 state thing is something Sanders wants the DNC to pursue, so it makes sense he's interested in dragging this out even if he doesn't win.
 

NeoXChaos

Member
This isn't that hard.

1. We banned fracking.
2. I want fracking banned everywhere
3. Sanders wants to ban fracking everywhere.
4. I will support Sanders.

The question is more do NY voters nationalize their perspective. I'd say the percentage of NY primary voters who are registered Dems and care about fracking is probably pretty small. This is really an irrelevant issue here.

I think his best angle would be to pretend it's South Carolina and play up support for minority rights. I think the Wall Street attacks have limited appeal here, and not just because Wall Street actually IS here.

I thought you were in NJ?
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
I don't see how that helps him win New York, though. Like spell out the thought process that theoretically gets a New Yorker from:

1. We banned fracking.
2. Sanders wants to ban fracking.
3. ???
4. I will support Sanders.

This is why I don't get it. If the issue wasn't settled then it could potentially win him some votes, but the state banned it last summer. It's old news.

This isn't that hard.

1. We banned fracking.
2. I want fracking banned everywhere
3. Sanders wants to ban fracking everywhere.
4. I will support Sanders.

The question is more do NY voters nationalize their perspective. I'd say the percentage of NY primary voters who are registered Dems and care about fracking is probably pretty small. This is really an irrelevant issue here.

I think his best angle would be to pretend it's South Carolina and play up support for minority rights. I think the Wall Street attacks have limited appeal here, and not just because Wall Street actually IS here.

I don't think it's even been a big enough issue downstate that it could win him the election. It was only ever a thing in a portion of upstate NY from what I remember.

I agree with your other point, he needs to treat this more like South Carolina than anything else. He who wins the City wins the election.

Yo B-dubs and makai there's gonna be a Brooklyn young dems watch party for the new York primary returns

You guy (and any other poligaffers in NYC) should come.

I'm in.
 
This isn't that hard.

1. We banned fracking.
2. I want fracking banned everywhere
3. Sanders wants to ban fracking everywhere.
4. I will support Sanders.

The question is more do NY voters nationalize their perspective. I'd say the percentage of NY primary voters who are registered Dems and care about fracking is probably pretty small. This is really an irrelevant issue here.

I think his best angle would be to pretend it's South Carolina and play up support for minority rights. I think the Wall Street attacks have limited appeal here, and not just because Wall Street actually IS here.

I think this is all pretty sound advice.
 
I don't see fracking as an issue that would drive voters anywhere, at any time, in any state.

The vast majority don't even know what it is, let alone why it is bad.
 
I don't see fracking as an issue that would drive voters anywhere, at any time, in any state.

The vast majority don't even know what it is, let alone why it is bad.

I think anti fracking is mostly about putting a face to dangerous environmental practices moreso than it is about specifically hating fracking. Nonetheless, you're right. No one really gives a shit about fracking.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
I don't see fracking as an issue that would drive voters anywhere, at any time, in any state.

The vast majority don't even know what it is, let alone why it is bad.

It's a very limited thing, but in the places it is a thing battle lines get drawn. Shit gets real over it in the towns where there's natural gas to be fracked. You are right that it's appeal as an issue is incredibly limited, like I said at most it maybe affected 10% of the people in the state and they were all split on the issue.
 
I think the plan is to paint that Hillary supports fracking and imply that she supports fracking in NY.
To which she can say she supports the Governors decision

Also of note pretty much every NY politician is a Hillary backer. Cuomo, De blasio, the speaker of the NYC council many assemblmen and women. And NYC has a huge labor movement (25% of NY workers are union) which is pretty pro Hillary and likely will do leg work for her
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
I think the case against fracking is just murkier. I remember Mark Ruffalo getting clowned on real time a few years back. But then again he gets clowned pretty much every time he goes on that show. I can't see how it is a good thing (I mean pumping water into the earth filled with chemicals and shit?) but I think a lot of the oppo consists of people screaming it causes earthquakes and sets your water on fire. Is it true?
 
So to be clear, are people generally against the concept of hydraulic fracturing, are they against that it provides fossil fuels and that consequential environmental impact, are they against fracking done badly due to poor regulation, are they against fracking because it's being done by large companies owned by millionaires and billionaires, or for some other reason?
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
To which she can say she supports the Governors decision

At which point the governor comes out and endorses her, again.

I think the case against fracking is just murkier. I remember Mark Ruffalo getting clowned on real time a few years back. But then again he gets clowned pretty much every time he goes on that show. I can't see how it is a good thing (I mean pumping water into the earth filled with chemicals and shit?) but I think a lot of the oppo consists of people screaming it causes earthquakes and sets your water on fire. Is it true?

The water on fire thing can be true. I've met people who've seen it and there's videos of that on youtube, but it's also from like the early days of the practice. No idea if they fixed that or not.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Well I don't give a crap about millionaires and billionaires and I don't think regulation is going to make the concept fundamentally more appealing, so as someone who does not deal with gas prices I would be opposed to it on principle.

edit: How did Hillary win Massachusetts again?
 

pigeon

Banned
This isn't that hard.

1. We banned fracking.
2. I want fracking banned everywhere
3. Sanders wants to ban fracking everywhere.
4. I will support Sanders.

The question is more do NY voters nationalize their perspective.

Yeah, I guess that's kind of what I mean, like, do people who oppose fracking want it to be illegal nationwide? I guess if you think it causes cancer maybe. But I think there's probably a pretty good argument for "I'm okay with fracking in Oklahoma just not upstate."

I think the case against fracking is just murkier. I remember Mark Ruffalo getting clowned on real time a few years back. But then again he gets clowned pretty much every time he goes on that show. I can't see how it is a good thing (I mean pumping water into the earth filled with chemicals and shit?) but I think a lot of the oppo consists of people screaming it causes earthquakes and sets your water on fire. Is it true?

I asked about this during the debate where it came up and as far as I can see, fracking is probably pretty bad for groundwater quality -- so I would support banning it near populated areas and maybe requiring remediation -- but it's not going to cause earthquakes, like, how could that even happen, take some geology classes people.

I think the plan is to paint that Hillary supports fracking and imply that she supports fracking in NY.

This seems like a bad plan in a state that adores Hillary Clinton.
 
Well I don't give a crap about millionaires and billionaires and I don't think regulation is going to make the concept fundamentally more appealing, so as someone who does not deal with gas prices I would be opposed to it on principle.

edit: How did Hillary win Massachusetts again?
Bill Clinton walked into a precinct and kicked the shit out of every Bernie supporter until they left.

She won it because Boston.
 
Well I don't give a crap about millionaires and billionaires and I don't think regulation is going to make the concept fundamentally more appealing, so as someone who does not deal with gas prices I would be opposed to it on principle.

edit: How did Hillary win Massachusetts again?

Closet conservative Elizabeth Warren refused to endorse the one true progressive.
 
It just feels, in part at least, not dissimilar to opposition to things like genetic engineering.

Although, I don't want to dismiss or discount there is real potential for impact if not done correctly.
 
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