Does anyone else notice this is a long article with one or two sentences of new information? It's a restatement of the facts of the case that have been public for months.
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PoliGAF 2016 |OT3| You know what they say about big Michigans - big Florida
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Does anyone else notice this is a long article with one or two sentences of new information? It's a restatement of the facts of the case that have been public for months.
shinra-bansho
Member
Because she can't keep getting away with it!
Also, Jeff Weaver continues to stay classy.
I do wonder what would have happened if he had had a better campaign staff.
Also, Jeff Weaver continues to stay classy.
I do wonder what would have happened if he had had a better campaign staff.
I thought this was basically the point. Only (perhaps mild) racists understand Trump-like racism as mere distasteful packaging, whereas non-racists don't want to have a racist in charge because they believe that racism is a very bad thing.
If you mean "self-interest" more narrowly, I don't think the claim is true. Like, it's really easy to find people who seem to care a lot more about abortion or gay marriage than their personal circumstances warrant. While I bet it's true that almost everyone voting for Republicans thinks that Republicans are better for the economy and almost everyone voting for Democrats thinks that Democrats are better for the economy, for example, I think pretty clearly what's going on here is that economics is complicated, politics is complicated, and people are largely choosing a party for other reasons. Once they're in, they form opinions about economics and politics that align with everyone else in the party because those are the opinions espoused by people who they trust (because those people say things consistent with the reasons that the voter did pick the party for). This is just "What's the Matter with Kansas?", right? It's not that poor whites voting Republican are complete idiots or that they're actually reasonably coming to the conclusion that what they really need is less government, it's that they come to believe that Republicans are right (or at least are better than the Democrats) about taxes and spending and running the government because they agree with them on social issues, or perhaps just because they feel this tribal affinity for them that the Republicans cultivate by all this social issues signalling.
The point is that this stuff is very tribal, and so voters always pursuing what they see as their self-interest, however understood, is perfectly consistent with their political choices revealing racism. Racism affects how people understand the costs and benefits of different policies and it affects whose judgment they're likely to trust on issues directly relating to their self-interest.
teruterubozu
Member
Hard to say. In some ways this election is also the anti-mega-campaign-staff election as much as it is anti-establishment. Jeb and Hillary kind of show that behemoth campaigns can also be an albatross and possibly outdated.
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
Astonishing. Oddly enough, my mom usually buys into the conservative propaganda 100%, but I gave her a simple explanation on super delegates yesterday and she seemed pretty receptive to what I was saying. It was weird because she's the most conservative person I know in real life (and it's not a close contest), so I was surprised that breaking down how supers likely wouldn't override the will of the voters was satisfactory to her and she dropped the issue. If only I could as easily convince her that Ted Cruz isn't the only politician who follows the constitution.
!!
I will have to check this out once the video is posted online. Why on earth would they have Cruz people on to discuss this? Especially given his very visible delegate wrangling efforts?
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/03/donald-trump-delegates-republican-convention-221274
Exactly
metalslimer
Member
It's amazing any republican right now outside of trump could whine about super delegates when their plan is to override the voters at the convention
FloydtheFathead
Member
All valid options here..
But my suggestion..
PoliGAF 2016 |OT4| Nothing but Punk Ass Thuggery Goes on Here
If they do steal it from Trump at the convention I wonder if this is how they plan to defend it.
teruterubozu
Member
Whitesplaining and Wife-swapping.
shinra-bansho
Member
I mean the point can be distilled pretty simply.
Trump is personally a racist misogynist, has racist bigoted policies that will affect a bunch of people, and a whole bunch of racist bigoted supporters like Granny Nazi.
To prefer and support him, you basically have to concede that none of the above matters, that what happens to these people doesn't really matter to you, because it's not going to affect your particular group. Ultimately, you're A-okay with racism, sexism and bigotry. And that kind of needs you to be just a little bit racist.
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RE: subtitles, I'm sad nothing came of the Fruit Salad of Life.
Trump is personally a racist misogynist, has racist bigoted policies that will affect a bunch of people, and a whole bunch of racist bigoted supporters like Granny Nazi.
To prefer and support him, you basically have to concede that none of the above matters, that what happens to these people doesn't really matter to you, because it's not going to affect your particular group. Ultimately, you're A-okay with racism, sexism and bigotry. And that kind of needs you to be just a little bit racist.
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RE: subtitles, I'm sad nothing came of the Fruit Salad of Life.
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
Poligaf 2016 |OT4| A Jesus Loving Man Nails His Own Carpenter
StopMakingSense
Member
Poligaf 2016 |OT4| A Hill of Bernt Beans
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
New CA Polling(LA Times)
I'm honestly surprised it's that close this early. I'd be interested in knowing their sample sizes and how the poll was conducted and all that.
Also, stories like this are heart warming:
http://www.courant.com/opinion/op-e...anders-bailed-me-out-0228-20160226-story.html
I guess my problem with the whole GOP is racist angle is it doesn't seem to me to actually capture the minds of GOP voters all that well. Not that a good amount of them aren't racist, but people can be complicated and throwing around terms like white supremacy seems to blur the lines between a Rubio supporter and a Klan member.
A hypothetical progressive might look at poverty and think, these communities need police reform/prison reform, jobs etc... Where a hypothetical conservative might look and see the same issue and think the people in those communities need to make better decisions. Now the conservative could be saying that due to racism in certain cases, but they also could genuinely believe it and think the GOP has more just policies, while not buying that whites are superior.
I think maybe some of the problem is that for people on the left the solutions are sort of technocratic, which I think is the right way to go in theory. If for example there's high poverty rates in a community, to me the right thing to do is have the government provide whatever incentives/reforms are needed to reverse the problem, and not sit idly and let it persist, so you either need some compassion for people who are in tough positions or you merely look at it as pieces on a chessboard like THE ESTABLISHMENT, but either way on some level I don't think you can honestly be a fiercely moralistic person in those two scenarios, but liberals are.
If you extend your compassion to some people, you have to extend it across the board, even to conservative voters.
A hypothetical progressive might look at poverty and think, these communities need police reform/prison reform, jobs etc... Where a hypothetical conservative might look and see the same issue and think the people in those communities need to make better decisions. Now the conservative could be saying that due to racism in certain cases, but they also could genuinely believe it and think the GOP has more just policies, while not buying that whites are superior.
I think maybe some of the problem is that for people on the left the solutions are sort of technocratic, which I think is the right way to go in theory. If for example there's high poverty rates in a community, to me the right thing to do is have the government provide whatever incentives/reforms are needed to reverse the problem, and not sit idly and let it persist, so you either need some compassion for people who are in tough positions or you merely look at it as pieces on a chessboard like THE ESTABLISHMENT, but either way on some level I don't think you can honestly be a fiercely moralistic person in those two scenarios, but liberals are.
If you extend your compassion to some people, you have to extend it across the board, even to conservative voters.
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
I definitely think a lot of conservatives end up supporting racist policies without being aware of the racist implications. A lot of conservatives, for instance, seem to have bought into the "race doesn't matter, everyone is made equal" colorblind malarky that we're fed through grade school. That's fine on principle, but makes it hard to later address that discrepancies based on race still exist even in a "colorblind" society and we have to fix those before we can sing kumbayah about some post-racial civilization. As such, you end up with people who think Black Lives Matter is racist, and I don't think all of them say that just to obfuscate the issue. I think a lot of them were dipped so deeply into the idea that "everyone is equal" that they just can't rationalize prioritizing the needs of a specific race in regard to any given issue without viewing it as unneeded favoritism.
That said, there are still a fuckton of people who oppose BLM and know exactly what they're doing, to be clear.
eBay Huckster
Member
bit weirded out by those age splits. usually clinton wins 40-49 and loses 30-39
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
Also the notion that 11% of white people are intent on voting for a candidate other than Bernie or Hillary seems strange.
TRUMP THA GOD
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
That's what I was thinking. The phrasing of the poll question is kind of weird. It can be interpreted as though they're asking about the presidential election rather than the primary.
StopMakingSense
Member
It's kind of a weirdly worded question.
This whole "primaries are undemocratic!" mantra from all sides is bizarre. Everything's fine and dandy until your candidate is disadvantaged by the system. At least with most Democratic states you get proportional delegates (and Sanders has benefited most from caucuses which are definitely less democratic, superdelegates or no.)
I wouldn't go that far, but it's clearly an anti-democratic system.
Though I'm sure the RNC wishes they had a similar system in place to stop the Don.
Can you imagine if Democrats had winner take all states? Bernie would be long gone
It's not a democratic system. I agree. Caucuses aren't either. This is not new info to anyone except for people who are..."new" to the political process, let's say.
It's not voter suppression. I don't understand why Rick Tyler is on msnbc. The guy is a proven rodent copulator!
Rich coming from people planning on stealing the nomination from Trump at the convention. Talk about voter suppression.
eBay Huckster
Member
also, i can't believe "trump is a liberal plant sent to win the election for clinton" truthers are actually a thing, but i'm interacting with one on facebook right now
Carson and Cruz must also be Hillary plants. Ask him if he finds those two less batshit insane than Trump.
superdeluxe
Member
New CA Polling(LA Times)
Interesting that Clinton has more supporters in the 30-39 then 40-49.
Some of that was running around last summer, but it was clearly a joke.
maabus1999
Member
New CA Polling(LA Times)
30-30 vs 40-49 and Over 64 make zero sense.
Over 64 really doesn't make any sense. 15% another candidate?????? Did the respondents get confused and are answering that they will vote in the GOP primary? Pollster did something wrong in screening or asking the questions.
This poll has some issues.
AnotherNils
Member
Cesare Borgia
Banned
It's hard to deny much of republican language and campaign strategy revolves around exploiting white resentment. I wouldn't say most republicans are racist though. If anything I'd say western society is so heavily ingrained with white supremacy that most white people have prejudiced views about black people (and other minorities) to some degree. How often white republicans display racial animus as compared to white democrats...I don't know. From an anecdotal perspective I've quite a bit of racial animus from white democrats in West Virginia and white republicans in Illinois.
Another thing about the white resentment stuff: minorities aren't stupid. They pick up on a lot of the dog whistles and winks/nods that have gone on for decades in the republican party, from Reagan's Neshoba County Fair speech to the current party's mantra about Obama not understanding/respecting America. Which is why there will be no quick turnaround in terms of the republican brand with black people or Hispanics or just about any other group. You could argue Trump represents the type of voter republicans have catered to since 1968. Angry white men with backwards social and racial views.
Another thing about the white resentment stuff: minorities aren't stupid. They pick up on a lot of the dog whistles and winks/nods that have gone on for decades in the republican party, from Reagan's Neshoba County Fair speech to the current party's mantra about Obama not understanding/respecting America. Which is why there will be no quick turnaround in terms of the republican brand with black people or Hispanics or just about any other group. You could argue Trump represents the type of voter republicans have catered to since 1968. Angry white men with backwards social and racial views.
Yellowtail
Member
PoliGAF 2016 |OT4| Ill tell you one thing, this is a very good-looking group of people here.
Macho Madness
Member
What a super weird poll when they bury a part that matters:
That's the number most people care about.
That's the number most people care about.
eBay Huckster
Member
okay actually i'm pro-this one
Macho Madness
Member
He's probably not just going to need to win California but blow her out depending on what happens in New York.
Also: https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/713856140606644224
superdeluxe
Member
Any new polls from New Jersey/Maryland? Hoping for solid wins from Clinton there.
How many delegates is DC worth?
How many delegates is DC worth?
Significant AA populations in both states. Don't worry about Clinton in either IMO.
Said no one ever.
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