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PoliGAF 2016 |OT3| You know what they say about big Michigans - big Florida

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B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Y2Kev said:
Totally. I felt that way last night. You are just making angry white people even angrier. I honestly don't know how you handle this movement Trump has created.

Note I'm not justifying their behavior. Just trying to explain it.
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It just plays into all of Trump's rhetoric, it was never going to make things better. It was essentially a counter-protest and those never work out the way the planners think they will.
 
T

TheFatOne

Member
Y2Kev said:
Totally. I felt that way last night. You are just making angry white people even angrier. I honestly don't know how you handle this movement Trump has created.

Note I'm not justifying their behavior. Just trying to explain it.
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It goes both ways though. Further angers both sides. It's going to help in the primary.The real scary part is that it looks like he's just going to triple down on his bullshit instead of trying to back down. What I hope doesn't happen is that someone is killed at one of his rallies. That would be just about one of the scariest possible outcomes out of this. Either a protester is killed or one of his supporters is killed which sets everyone off.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
East Lake said:
What is it about authoritarianism as opposed to something like bigotry that makes it impossible to change psychologically?
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I am equally unconvinced that you can convince bigots to change by talking to them nicely, so I don't really agree with the question, I guess.

Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
I'm not talking about a "magical nice way". Trump is building a narrative that tells people that the country is basically on the verge of collapse, that our way of life is eroding, that the world is leaving them behind, a message that is frankly probably pretty attractive to a lot of working-class misfits, and seeing that the other side has already dismissed them as reprehensible and doesn't seem even remotely interesting in understanding or empathizing with them only plays right into that. The left is always calling for empathy, but empathy is a two-way street that requires trying to understand (which is not excusing or validating) others' perspective even if their overall viewpoint is not defensible.

As to the latter point, I'm not "pleading" for anything, other than an accurate understanding of the Trump phenomenon that I think is obsured when the whole thing is just bluntly dismissed as mere racism, when I think there is an odd constellation of things in play.
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I mean, you're missing an incredibly important part of that narrative, which is that their way of life is eroding because of people of color, gays, foreigners, and television, and so we should get rid of all those things.

Look, I understand the dispossessed white working-class voter thing. I used to be the one bringing it up in PoliGAF! It is worth understanding the issues that are causing anomie in Appalachia so that we can take policy steps to address it.

But, at the same time, it's not incorrect to observe that these dispossessed white working-class voters are also racists. Sure, they're being led into a cult, but it's a cult of racism, and they're not made uncomfortable enough by that tenet to abandon the cult. What does that tell you?

I mean, go back to your first post. The underlying drive here is to protect themselves, and people like them, from bad things, and to do so by victimizing people not like them.

That's a pretty straightforward definition of racism! Sure, they're worried about bad things happening, but I worry about bad things happening too and I get through the day without agreeing to deport all Muslims.

I guess fundamentally I'm not sure what your goal is in wanting to make it really clear that these guys aren't racists, they just are okay with racism and have fundamentally racist motivations.
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
TheFatOne said:
It goes both ways though. Further angers both sides. It's going to help in the primary.The real scary part is that it looks like he's just going to triple down on his bullshit instead of trying to back down. What I hope doesn't happen is that someone is killed at one of his rallies. That would be just about one of the scariest possible outcomes out of this. Either a protester is killed or one of his supporters is killed which sets everyone off.
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Oh, it's definitely going to hurt him in the general. I mean dude has actual like white supremacists at his rallies. But in the primary? His voters are FIRED UP.
 
B

Brinbe

Member
Yeah, this is gonna strengthen his supporters' resolve, get more on undecideds on his side and lead to further divisiveness, not only within the overall electorate, but even within the GOP. In the short run it'll help him and probably give him the nomination.

But I still think he'll be toast in the general. This is gonna be a scary ride to November and I hope no one seriously gets hurt in the process.
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
I am happy that Trump is on fire today.

I was afraid that he was going to flame out before the nom.
But lol, the battlelines are drawn and the whackos are more inflamed

he has no chance in the general
 
S

samn

Member
XenodudeX said:
What a load of fucking horse shit. If Obama said this ( and he basically would of said the same thing), he wouldn't be getting this type of response.

Can't stand this fucking bullshit double standard. Some of these people on the left is just as insufferable as the conservatives with their purity tests.
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I despise Obama.
 
J

Joe Shlabotnik

Banned
Ekai said:
I could say the same regarding how much defense Hillary's words on Nancy Reagan and AIDS got the other night. Or how much I've seen Hillary Bros gang up on Bernie for any number of ridiculous things. It's not a double-standard. It's holding her accountable for comparing protest to what Drumpf does. I know she's trying to not alienate moderate voters but this wasn't the best way to go about it. It's not nearly as bad a "gaffe" like the AIDS mess was (and it's generous to call that a gaffe) but it is an odd comparison to make. Her general message is fine, the way it's argued less so.
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What the fuck were you reading yesterday? Her biggest supporters here went apeshit on Hillary for the Reagan comments. Trying to parse out what she could have possibly intended wasn't excusing her, and most weren't even bothering to do that.
 
T

TheFatOne

Member
Y2Kev said:
Oh, it's definitely going to hurt him in the general. I mean dude has actual like white supremacists at his rallies. But in the primary? His voters are FIRED UP.
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No doubt. Shit was locked up yesterday. Once I saw Cruz supporters turning on him I knew it was over. Real wake up call to a lot of people though. Had a bunch of friends who thought we've made real progress when it comes to racism in the U.S. I'm glad Trump has dissolved that illusion for them. No where even close to solving race relations in the U.S. and this is a clear example. Really fucking sad.
 
D

Dubbedinenglish

Banned
PBY said:
Establishment can't walk this back after months of painting BLM protests as the devil.

Oops.
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Yup. People want to call Trump an outsider for the GOP? Bullshit. He is simply the id of the party. Trump is kind of people they are happy with putting money in, supporting and lobbying the GOP. Now here is the manifestation of their rhetoric, what they created.
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
"Some people, by the way, don't consider waterboarding torture..."

*audience member shouts "drown 'em"*

This is really bad. I think I have to turn it off now.
 
B

Brinbe

Member
scary, listening to all this rhetoric is genuinely scary because you can see the manipulation at work. A modern day cult of personality. His supporters are out for blood now. It feels like we've reached a real turning point.
 
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