PoliGAF 2016 |OT8| No, Donald. You don't.

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It will probably all depend on what Bernie says tomorrow. He still has a grudge(going off the statements he made today) so I want to see how will he address Clinton or ignore her and talk about the stuff he got on the platform.
 
royalan said:
I think "letting this go" would be a mistake for one reason:

Wikileaks very, very likely has more emails.

They said they do. Jeff Weaver earlier today even noted that all the emails leaked only cover a small period of the primaries. And, I dunno, if I were trying to sabotage my opponent's elections, slowly leaking the emails over the course of their primary, thus guaranteeing it dominated the entire week, would make a whole lot of sense.

I do think this is something Dems need to stay ahead of like they did today.

Republicans aren't going to want to let this die.
Bernie holdouts aren't going to want to let this die.
The media won't want to let this die.
And Putin certainly won't want to let this die.

Tying this to Russia (and to Trump), makes this a much bigger deal than the DNC and provides a bit of cover.

I dunno, I guess we'll see how this week goes. But nobody should be surprised it this only the first email dump.
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I agree.

Using the Russian angle as a counter to them not only helps to paint them in a partisan tinge, but it can also tangentially get the mesia to bring up questions about Trump's connections to Russia.

Wikileaks have already said they want to draw this out. Might as well try and delegitimize any future leaks as Russian tampering.
 
DNC folks better be combing through their emails and proactively have statements ready for when bad emails are made public.

This is such a shitshow and unprecedented heading into a convention.
 
I mean that's basically troll bait

But to anyone freaking out about the DNC stuff, just remember, our party actually has leaders and things are relatively under control. It should be a good week. Time to celebrate the official first female nom of the Democratic party
 
Coriolanus said:
because the most famous fascist is mussolini, and trump is somewhat similar in behaviour.

plus its a pretty good match for italian fascism.
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Even using the literal Wikipedia definition:

Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete, and they regard the complete mobilization of society under a totalitarian one-party state as necessary to prepare a nation for armed conflict and to respond effectively to economic difficulties.[7] Such a state is led by a strong leader—such as a dictator and a martial government composed of the members of the governing fascist party—to forge national unity and maintain a stable and orderly society.[7] Fascism rejects assertions that violence is automatically negative in nature, and views political violence, war, and imperialism as means that can achieve national rejuvenation.[8][9][10][11] Fascists advocate a mixed economy, with the principal goal of achieving autarky through protectionist and interventionist economic policies.[12]
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I'd just like to point out that, in the case of the absolute, completely implausible, worst case scenario (Assange has smoking gun he claims from Clinton Foundation that knocks Clinton out of the race) our VP Tim Kaine can be bumped up to the top of the ticket and I'm confident he'd win. The praise from both sides of the political spectrum has been immense and he is untarnished from the primaries. The Dems have this.
 
TheLaughingStock said:
Why do folks keep calling Donald Trump a fascist? http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2015/12/10/9886152/donald-trump-fascism

Very annoying along with Nazi.
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He's not a classical fascist but I think he, and all the populist xenophobic right wing movements going on in Europe, can be fairly described as being a sort of neo fascism or pseudo fascism. I find it kind of weird that the article says fascism has little to do with economics - it's true that it's not the primary concern as the goal-in-itself but it's part of the larger rebirth-of-the-nation thing. The whole original goal of fascist economics was to overcome the class struggle through class compromise, because reducing humans to economic actors was seen as degenerate. As per Piece-of-Shit-Alt-Right-Favorite Julius Evola, "Modern capitalism is just as subversive as Marxism. The materialistic view of life on which both systems are based is identical. As long as we only talk about economic classes, profit, salaries, and production, and as long as we believe that real human progress is determined by a particular system of distribution of wealth and goods, then we are not even close to what is essential."

But Trump fits Eco's 14 Ways of Looking at a Black Shirt very well.
 
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metalslimer said:
Christie mentioning the idea of purging the government of Obama appointees is proof enough for me.
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Oh man, Christie is another person I need to put on my list of completely disgusting people who I used to think were just regular terrible politicians. He has to know that the plan is fascist.
 
pigeon said:
Oh man, Christie is another person I need to put on my list of completely disgusting people who I used to think were just regular terrible politicians. He has to know that the plan is fascist.
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He switched from normal bad to horribly bad specifically because his ego wouldn't let him face into the background as a Haley Barbour style guy, so he latched onto whoever he could to possibly extend his career. By all accounts, he seems completely broken that he wasn't chosen as VP.
 
I am really starting to panic, I get this feeling that this email stuff is going to put Trump over the top. Another on of these things close to election and we will have a Trump presidency.
 
This email stuff is furvor for people who pay too much attention to politics and that subset already has a team picked... I still don't buy any of this crap having an effect on the general population. The convention will wipe most of this away, though DWS in general needs to go away, you don't get to do a half sacrifice, it's all or nothing Debbie!
 
Sorry to bother anyone but I thought this was the best place to ask.

I remember seeing a long post linking wikileaks to Russia, but I can find it can someone drop me a link?
 
CrazyDude said:
I am really starting to panic, I get this feeling that this email stuff is going to put Trump over the top. Another on of these things close to election and we will have a Trump presidency.
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So far, there is nothing to the emails besides some staffers being a bit rude in their private correspondence. This is not something that would convince anyone who wasn't already convinced.
 
starmud said:
This email stuff is furvor for people who pay too much attention to politics and that subset already has a team picked... I still don't buy any of this crap having an effect on the general population. The convention will wipe most of this away, though DWS in general needs to go away, you don't get to do a half sacrifice, it's all or nothing Debbie!
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Yeah, I'm on this camp.

But Debbie needs to be dumped completely.
 
All you guys need to know to that this is just a side show is to think back to the general emotional states you had for the last week:

- "OMG, Warren's going to be in Orlando with Hillary! She's the Veep and we've got this!"
- "Fuck, Warren wont be the pick. Progressives will stay home. We're fucked."
- "Holy shit, the RNC was a disaster! This is in the bag!"
- "Fuck, did you see the CNN poll of people approving Trump's speech? We're fucked."
- "OMG, Tim Kaine killed it! Future President right there! He's the perfect pick to help us win!"
- "Fuck, this Wikileaks story is going to cost us the election. We're fucked."

Meanwhile, the average person probably went to work and watched golf or some shit over the weekend. This is all noise. It's all about demographics and turnout. Calm down.
 
I just got back, was away for a bit.

2 things - 1, I agree this is noise, but 2 - still incredibly disappointed with Hills campaign handled the past month.
 
I don't necessarily think that exploring concerns and the various routes this election can go down is always diablosing. I'm still relatively confident about November.

However, I do have some concerns. I think Angela Rye put it best on Don Lemon's panel tonight: "The last thing Hillary needs is another headline with the word 'Emails' in it."

These are all throwaway attacks that we've seen before, but I'm concerned lately that they're gelling together under a consistent narrative of Hillary not being able to be trusted with out nation's intelligence and security. It's silly, and the public largely isn't paying much attention right now; but if these things all start to sing the same tune, the public may start to hear it.

And I work during the week with a lot of people. Particularly black people. Particularly young people. And at least here in Philly I am very concerned about the wave of anti-voting sentiment I'm picking up on. More people I encounter every day than I am comfortable admitting abhor Trump, but aren't motivated to vote because they don't think Hillary is much better. It's absolutely crazy, but pretending like it's not an issue won't make it go away.

One of you in here said this a few days ago, and I think it's very true: our country is so polarized, this election is not going to be about appealing to the swing voter. It's going to be about getting your base to show up. And well, turnout has never been a Republican issue.

I hope this week goes flawlessly. And I hope that today, and how quickly and unified the dems moved to squash this DNC shit and create another narrative, is a sign that they're going to take this seriously.
 
Trump has been flirting with out and out fascism his entire run, and the RNC is really the moment where I see him embracing it with a full throat. He may lack blackshirts, but he's now the one man that can save America in his own mind and in his own words. Combine that with his authoritarian positions that he's espoused so far? Fascist is a lot more apt than almost any descriptor you can choose.
 
chiym1992 said:
my boy FDR :(
i assume anyone that really remembers fdr or truman is dead
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I was talking with my grandfather recently and apparently he personally knew Truman after his time was over. He worked at a hospital in Missouri and Truman would just randomly drop in. It was neat to hear him talk about it.
 
I already posted this before, but ss for whether Trump's a fascist or not, I quite like this quote I found in the book I am reading currently

What practically amounted to a deification of Mussolini among wide sections of the population could draw upon a transmuted form of a naive popular religious faith.

"When you are looking around and don't know who to turn to anymore you will remember that he is there. Who but he can help you?" The leading Italian Newspaper in 1936, speaking not of God, but of Mussolini.
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I don't think these hispanic's unfavorable numbers for Trump mean everything, there are probably some percent who don't view him favorably but will still vote for him.
 
Fascism is a hard idea to define because so few countries actually tried fascism and it's not like Adolf Hitler had consistent political philosophies like a non-deranged person. There are lots of dictators based around cults of Supreme Leaders and nationalism that encouraged violence against minorities and disliked civil rights.

This type of government is not exclusively to early 20th century Germany, Spain, and Italy.
 
adam387 said:
First election my dad ever voted in was for FDR.

Roosevelt lost Ohio.
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That's very memorable. I know I would've been proud to have known someone that supported him.

Bonen no Max'd said:
I was talking with my grandfather recently and apparently he personally knew Truman after his time was over. He worked at a hospital in Missouri and Truman would just randomly drop in. It was neat to hear him talk about it.
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That's really cool. A lot of what I know about Truman is overshadowed by FDR, other than I used to live really close to where he's from for a while.
 
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