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PoliGAF 2016 |OT8| No, Donald. You don't.

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C

Chained Prometheus

Member
redlegs87 said:
Everyone in my family besides myself my mom and my older sister will be voting for Hillary. Everyone else in my extended family is voting Trump well I am not sure about one aunt but I for sure know everyone else is. Most of the reasoning I hear is he won't be beholden to anyone and that Hillary is just the absolute definition of evil. I try and keep quiet whenever I am near them and politics come up but some times it's just so hard. I hope to whatever there is to pray to that he does something that will persuade them either vote Hillary or just not at all.
Click to expand...

This is exactly where I'm at with my folks. I feel pretty sure that my parents aren't going to budge, but my sister might be able to. The only thing I might be able to accomplish for my mom is getting her to vote for someone like Gary Johnson... and that's a big might. She'll refuse to vote Hillary on principal. Dad's gonna ride with Trump to the bitter end though, I know that much.
 
H

HylianTom

Banned
BrokenFiction said:
Hill's fund-raising emails are getting aggressive.

"I'll ask you once and for all, are you with us?"

I hashtagged you, ISN'T THAT ENOUGH?
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I got that email. She's been getting a monthly donation from me, so my initial reaction was one of amusement.

And most of my family are Republicans, but I haven't bothered to check on their intentions for this November. They all loathe Hillary, so I'm not very optimistic. (The next time I see most of them is at Thanksgiving)

White Southern conservatives who live outside of the cities live their own kind of self-reinforcing political-cultural bubble. Obama got less than 20% of the white vote, so there's probably a lot of "no one I know voted for Obama" going-on. I wouldn't be shocked if there's something similar going-on this year as well.
 
P

Piecake

Member
In its annual report released this spring, Freedom House, an American democracy advocacy organization, downgraded Israel’s freedom of the press ranking from “free” to “partly free.” To anyone following Israeli news media over the past year and a half, this was hardly surprising.

For the past 18 months, in addition to his prime ministerial duties, Netanyahu has served as Israel’s communications minister (as well as its foreign minister, economy minister and minister of regional cooperation). In this role, he and his aides have brazenly leveraged his power to seek favorable coverage from outlets that he once routinely described as “radically biased.”

Since the appointment of its new director general, the ministry has ruled on a series of decisions that have been highly advantageous to Bezeq, Israel’s largest telecommunications group. Bezeq also operates Walla News, one of the most popular news sites in the country, and a close associate of Mr. Netanyahu’s, Shaul Elovitch, owns a controlling stake.

It didn’t take long before the site’s coverage of the Netanyahu government turned decidedly positive.

Walla News isn’t alone. An atmosphere of intimidation has begun to take hold in many, if not most, of the country’s newsrooms. A source in Israel Hayom, speaking on the condition of anonymity for fear of losing his job, told me that the prime minister “holds everyone on a leash — everyone — not just us. With the other outlets, you might not realize what their interests are but they exist all the same.”

“At some point Netanyahu realized that his battle with the media makes him very popular among his base supporters,” Ms. Dayan said. “By catering to this base, the result has been a phenomenal success for him.”

If Mr. Netanyahu’s efforts to control the news media are indeed aimed at correcting a liberal bias, his actions have proved awfully narrow. For Mr. Netanyahu, the stakes are personal. “Every time you see an appointment by Bibi of someone in the media, it’s meant either to help Sara or to help advance his own private affairs,” Mr. Segal told me, using the prime minister’s nickname.
Click to expand...

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/31/o...netanyahu-is-crushing-israels-free-press.html

I could totally see Trump doing something like this.

Also, surprised my thread got zero responses (I get a lot of those). Anything Israel is usually a pretty hot topic.
 
V

Vahagn

Member
HylianTom said:
I got that email. She's been getting a monthly donation from me, so my initial reaction was one of amusement.

And most of my family are Republicans, but I haven't bothered to check on their intentions for this November. They all loathe Hillary, so I'm not very optimistic. (The next time I see most of them is at Thanksgiving)

White Southern conservatives who live outside of the cities live their own kind of self-reinforcing political-cultural bubble. Obama got less than 20% of the white vote, so there's probably a lot of "no one I know voted for Obama" going-on. I wouldn't be shocked if there's something similar going-on this year as well.
Click to expand...

Uh what? Obama got 40/60 split with white voters.


http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/...white-voters-on-par-with-other-democrats?lite
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
CovCxInUIAARAhY.jpg:large


"We will honor Khan's sacrifice by banning people like Khan from the country."

Finally, Pence the genius has stepped in and cleared everything up *Smokes 4 packs of cigs*
 
R

redlegs87

Member
Chained Prometheus said:
This is exactly where I'm at with my folks. I feel pretty sure that my parents aren't going to budge, but my sister might be able to. The only thing I might be able to accomplish for my mom is getting her to vote for someone like Gary Johnson... and that's a big might. She'll refuse to vote Hillary on principal. Dad's gonna ride with Drumpf to the bitter end though, I know that much.
Click to expand...

It makes me question exactly how my family is so liberal compared to the rest of my extended family especially my cousins. We all grew up in the same city same schools and yet they are hardcore republicans and over here me and my sister are polar opposites of them all.
 
V

Vahagn

Member
Guys there are a lot of brainwashed white supremacists - as there have been throughout our nation's and lots of European nations' histories.

Just gotta win the battle and move on.
 
G

gcubed

Member
this is how they are playing the game?

Donald Trump says A

Mike Pence says Donald Trump and I believe B

Donald Trump continues to say A

...

Profit?
 
M

Man God

Non-Canon Member
The real interesting change in white supremacy in this century is if Latinos are added into the fold like various other ethnically white groups were over the past 100 years.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
I'm actually curious who my prim and proper rich second cousin will vote for. She's a Republican, but Trump's abrasiveness I know must really offend her. I don't really think she's racist, at least not overtly. Just a person who came from middle class and is now rich.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
I'm pretty sure Hitler's staff would have been better at praising Jewish families that lost children in WW1.

I'm not even joking about this.

Paul Ryan at this point is basically saying Trump is a Nazi, but Nazism is okay as long as the Nazis are in favor of cutting capital gains taxes.
 
I

Iolo

Member
Holmes said:
Hillary's team is pushing hard right now on fundraising because the few days after a convention are when people are most incentivized to donate, and they probably want to open as many field offices and run as many ads as possible going into the fall.
Click to expand...

Also tonight is the FEC deadline for this month.
 
S

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
CovCxInUIAARAhY.jpg:large


"We will honor Khan's sacrifice by banning people like Khan from the country."

Finally, Pence the genius has stepped in and cleared everything up *Smokes 4 packs of cigs*
Click to expand...
Is this Governer Mike "refer all inquiries to the Trump campaign" Pence or Governor Mike "actually VP nominee and therefore part of the trump campaign" Pence?

I get those two confused all the time.
 
I

Iolo

Member
I mean look, at minimum 40% of the country is going to vote for Trump, and that's if he collapses completely. It's not really surprising that many of your acquaintances may be voting Trump, except in that you didn't think they were that dumb.
 
V

Vahagn

Member
balladofwindfishes said:
I'm actually curious who my prim and proper rich second cousin will vote for. She's a Republican, but Trump's abrasiveness I know must really offend her. I don't really think she's racist, at least not overtly. Just a person who came from middle class and is now rich.
Click to expand...

Most of these people aren't overtly racists. In fact, most of them are convinced they're not. Some of the more brainwashed ones are convinced liberals are the real racists (the mental gymnastics to get there is fascinating).

But they're all racists. You can't see q candidate that says and provides the policies he does and NOT be a racist.
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
Vahagn said:
You think Americans have less freedom today and less choice today then they did 200 years ago?

Or do you think government is smaller now then it was in 1816?
Click to expand...
"Against individualism, the Fascist conception is for the State; and it is for the individual in so far as he coincides with the State, which is the conscience and universal will of man in his historical existence. It is opposed to classical Liberalism, which arose form the necessity of reacting against absolutism, and which brought its historical purpose to an end when the State was transformed into the conscience and will of the people. Liberalism denied the State in the interests of the particular individual; Fascism reaffirms the State as the true reality of the individual. And if liberty is to be the attribute of the real man, and not of that abstract puppet envisaged by individualistic Liberalism, Fascism is for liberty. And for the only liberty which can be a real thing, the liberty of the State and of the individual within the State. Therefore, for the Fascist, everything is in the State, and nothing human or spiritual exists, much less has value, outside the State. In this sense Fascism is totalitarian, and the Fascist State, the synthesis and unity of all values, interprets, develops and gives strength to the whole life of the people.

Outside the State there can be neither individuals nor groups (political parties, associations, syndicates, classes). " - Benito Mussolini

"Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all.

We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all. We object to a state-enforced equality. Then they say that we are against equality. And so on, and so on. It is as if the socialists were to accuse us of not wanting persons to eat because we do not want the state to raise grain." - Frederic Bastiat

hawk2025 said:
Wait, is the government the unchecked monopoly?

Or is the unchecked monopoly the one that forms naturally when there's extremely high fixed costs, decreasing marginal costs, and no regulations?
Click to expand...
"concluded that the only way to abolish the class monopolies was to centralize and consolidate all industrial and commercial interests, all productive and distributive agencies, in one vast monopoly in the hands of the State. The government must become banker, manufacturer, farmer, carrier, and merchant, and in these capacities must suffer no competition. Land, tools, and all instruments of production must be wrested from individual hands, and made the property of the collectivity. To the individual can belong only the products to be consumed, not the means of producing them. A man may own his clothes and his food, but not the sewing-machine which makes his shirts or the spade which digs his potatoes. Product and capital are essentially different things; the former belongs to individuals, the latter to society. Society must seize the capital which belongs to it, by the ballot if it can, by revolution if it must. Once in possession of it, it must administer it on the majority principle, though its organ, the State, utilize it in production and distribution, fix all prices by the amount of labor involved, and employ the whole people in its workshops, farms, stores, etc. The nation must be transformed into a vast bureaucracy, and every individual into a State official. Everything must be done on the cost principle, the people having no motive to make a profit out of themselves. Individuals not being allowed to own capital, no one can employ another, or even himself. Every man will be a wage-receiver, and the State the only wage-payer. He who will not work for the State must starve, or, more likely, go to prison. All freedom of trade must disappear. Competition must be utterly wiped out. All industrial and commercial activity must be centered in one vast, enormous, all-inclusive monopoly. The remedy for monopolies is monopoly." - Benjamin Tucker

hawk2025 said:
Help me out!
Click to expand...
"Kosovo sent the world a message: wherever there is oppression, suffering, and injustice, NATO will show up six months late and bomb the country next to where it's happening." - P. J. O'Rourke
 
V

Vahagn

Member
benjipwns said:
"Against individualism, the Fascist conception is for the State; and it is for the individual in so far as he coincides with the State, which is the conscience and universal will of man in his historical existence. It is opposed to classical Liberalism, which arose form the necessity of reacting against absolutism, and which brought its historical purpose to an end when the State was transformed into the conscience and will of the people. Liberalism denied the State in the interests of the particular individual; Fascism reaffirms the State as the true reality of the individual. And if liberty is to be the attribute of the real man, and not of that abstract puppet envisaged by individualistic Liberalism, Fascism is for liberty. And for the only liberty which can be a real thing, the liberty of the State and of the individual within the State. Therefore, for the Fascist, everything is in the State, and nothing human or spiritual exists, much less has value, outside the State. In this sense Fascism is totalitarian, and the Fascist State, the synthesis and unity of all values, interprets, develops and gives strength to the whole life of the people.

Outside the State there can be neither individuals nor groups (political parties, associations, syndicates, classes). " - Benito Mussolini

"Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all.

We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all. We object to a state-enforced equality. Then they say that we are against equality. And so on, and so on. It is as if the socialists were to accuse us of not wanting persons to eat because we do not want the state to raise grain." - Frederic Bastiat


"concluded that the only way to abolish the class monopolies was to centralize and consolidate all industrial and commercial interests, all productive and distributive agencies, in one vast monopoly in the hands of the State. The government must become banker, manufacturer, farmer, carrier, and merchant, and in these capacities must suffer no competition. Land, tools, and all instruments of production must be wrested from individual hands, and made the property of the collectivity. To the individual can belong only the products to be consumed, not the means of producing them. A man may own his clothes and his food, but not the sewing-machine which makes his shirts or the spade which digs his potatoes. Product and capital are essentially different things; the former belongs to individuals, the latter to society. Society must seize the capital which belongs to it, by the ballot if it can, by revolution if it must. Once in possession of it, it must administer it on the majority principle, though its organ, the State, utilize it in production and distribution, fix all prices by the amount of labor involved, and employ the whole people in its workshops, farms, stores, etc. The nation must be transformed into a vast bureaucracy, and every individual into a State official. Everything must be done on the cost principle, the people having no motive to make a profit out of themselves. Individuals not being allowed to own capital, no one can employ another, or even himself. Every man will be a wage-receiver, and the State the only wage-payer. He who will not work for the State must starve, or, more likely, go to prison. All freedom of trade must disappear. Competition must be utterly wiped out. All industrial and commercial activity must be centered in one vast, enormous, all-inclusive monopoly. The remedy for monopolies is monopoly." - Benjamin Tucker


"Kosovo sent the world a message: wherever there is oppression, suffering, and injustice, NATO will show up six months late and bomb the country next to where it's happening." - P. J. O'Rourke
Click to expand...

I like how you dodged my questions, ignored the hundreds and hundreds of governments that exist on this earth that aren't ruled by fascists and jumped straight to Mussolini.


Is our government bigger today than it was 200 years ago?

Does bigger government necessitate less freedom?

Does it then mean that Americans have less freedom today than they did 200 years ago?
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
shinra-bansho said:
Horse firmly hitched to wagon of shit. No going back. Shitty person with shit views himself too so no surprises.
Click to expand...

Of course, if anyone was going to take the position of VP, it would mean they expect to have no future in politics.
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
Vahagn said:
I like how you dodged my questions, ignored the hundreds and hundreds of governments that exist on this earth that aren't ruled by fascists and jumped straight to Mussolini.


Is our government bigger today than it was 200 years ago?

Does bigger government necessitate less freedom?

Does it then mean that Americans have less freedom today than they did 200 years ago?
Click to expand...
It's the first goddamn sentence of the Bastiat quote.
 
G

gaugebozo

Member
My mom is definitely voting for Trump. It's really sad because she should be one of the people to see through him. Her parents were immigrants and she was a journalist, breaking into a boy's club newsroom in the 70's where they still smoked and had a cooler for whiskey and beer by contract.

My dad has no love for Obama, but I'm holding out hope he'll at least abstain.

I'd really love to know who my grandparents would vote for. My grandfather earned a bronze star among other things in WWII, and although he was a solid Reagan Republican, he never trusted John McCain after the Keating five scandal. I'd like to think his military experience and bullshit detector would serve him well.
 
A

aspiegamer

Member
So that absurd statement about his tax returns isn't even a top 5 Trump insanity line for the media to cover today? Nice. Having so much fail that you get a different panel every segment on CNN to discuss different controversies about you takes talent.
benjipwns said:
The appropriately named Umayyad Caliphate did alright for 50 years or so.
Click to expand...
Checks out. 5th largest empire in world history is nothing to sneeze at.
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
From the racist Miss Teen USA thread:
Click to expand...
Ahahaha. To be fair, there's more tanned skin in this picture than the Congressional one. Gives "dat feel" of diversity.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
The reason why Paul Ryan is a terrible person is the same reason that Robert E. Lee is a terrible person and why his statues should read "killed Americans and betrayed Union to support slavery."
 
K

kess

Member
Would Bastiat's theoretical (private) schools be any less free if they had to adhere to a set of uniform regulations regarding education standards and accepting students they have no incentive to take?
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
Vahagn said:
Cool. So the answer is no, then?
Click to expand...
The answer is, you want it to be one way (black and white/binary), when it's the other way (grey/degrees).

A corporation is not society is not an individual.

The growth of individual and collective capabilities can outpace the growth of corporate oppression.

Reverses (Lawrence over Bowers, Loving can overturn Pace) and stronger protections (Citizens United, Heller/McDonald) can occur. Even if minimally like Brandenburg vs. Schenck and Abrams.

One form can continue (the draft) well after another (chattel) ends.

Vicious crimes can be instated (War on Drugs, DCMA, EU regulations on the curve of bananas) after others (Fugitive Slave Laws) are waylayed.

kess said:
Would Bastiat's theoretical (private) schools be any less free if they had to adhere to a set of uniform regulations regarding education standards and accepting students they have no incentive to take?
Click to expand...
Bastiat, like Hayek and Mises, was a liberal. So sadly, probably yes.
 
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