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PoliGAF 2016 |OT8| No, Donald. You don't.

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W

whyamihere

Banned
Nazgul_Hunter said:
So, I understand why in the context of US elections, the goal of these laws is to disenfranchise low income voters who tend to vote Democrat... However, the idea of presenting photo ID to vote is completely innocuous in a vacuum, and coming from a country where it's required to present ID, it doesn't seem like a big deal.

Why is it that in one of the richest countries on Earth, presenting photo ID is this big bothersome thing?
Click to expand...

Because the vast majority of photo ID that people have in this country are driver's licenses, and people who don't have driver's licenses (poor minority voters who might use public transit) happen to be Democrats.

Also, "voter fraud", which is what these laws purport to stop, does not exist.
 
A

ampere

Member
Holmes said:
Clinton Has 69-Point Lead Over Trump in Latest Latino Vote Tracking Poll


5ZxwPb4.gif
Click to expand...

but this isn't what that one poll with Trump leading in Florida said

/diablos
 
O

OmniOne

Member
Nazgul_Hunter said:
So, I understand why in the context of US elections, the goal of these laws is to disenfranchise low income voters who tend to vote Democrat... However, the idea of presenting photo ID to vote is completely innocuous in a vacuum, and coming from a country where it's required to present ID, it doesn't seem like a big deal.

Why is it that in one of the richest countries on Earth, presenting photo ID is this big bothersome thing?
Click to expand...

Because you have to Pay for and ID (they are not making these free as they make them a requirement), and that is a de facto poll tax, which is unconstitutional.

Not to mention, even if you have the money, states are deliberately closing down offices that distribute ID's in democratic heavy areas. Don't have a car? Too bad, no ID for you.
 
M

metalslimer

Member
The IDs are also not free. I mean most young people have IDs anyway but it does affect a lot of low income voters. I know my great grandmother doesn't have an id and is not going to go through the trouble of getting one at her age
 
C

Cesare Borgia

Banned
Nazgul_Hunter said:
So, I understand why in the context of US elections, the goal of these laws is to disenfranchise low income voters who tend to vote Democrat... However, the idea of presenting photo ID to vote is completely innocuous in a vacuum, and coming from a country where it's required to present ID, it doesn't seem like a big deal.

Why is it that in one of the richest countries on Earth, presenting photo ID is this big bothersome thing?
Click to expand...

The most common photo ID tends to be a driver's license, meaning that if you do not have a car you have to rely on other forms of photo ID which are conveniently not acceptable in many states (student ID for example). I'd have no problem with photo ID requirements if everyone had easy, free access to them. Of course republicans make the entire process as cumbersome as possible, including closing down DMV locations in inner cities.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
And even if the IDs are free, they often require additional documentation to get. For example, in Ohio you have to show your original birth certificate. When I went to get my ID card, they refused to accept the copy that I've used for everything. We had to drive 30 miles to the health department where I was born and pay the $25.00 to get an official enough copy. Then, I had to pay the fee for the ID card (which was at a location that is not on the bus route, and has very limited hours). If I hadn't had my Social Security card readily available, I'd have had to jump through that hoop too.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
whyamihere said:
Because the vast majority of photo ID that people have in this country are driver's licenses, and people who don't have driver's licenses (poor minority voters who might use public transit) happen to be Democrats.

Also, "voter fraud", which is what these laws purport to stop, does not exist.
Click to expand...

Also that in conjunction with passing these laws, they make it much harder and more expensive to obtain a legitimate photo ID. For example in some places you can buy beer with a college ID but you can't use it to vote. And in others the offices where you can get these ID's are open for 3 hours in the middle of the day and the number of offices is severely slashed.

adam387 said:
And even if the IDs are free, they often require additional documentation to get. For example, in Ohio you have to show your original birth certificate. When I went to get my ID card, they refused to accept the copy that I've used for everything. We had to drive 30 miles to the health department where I was born and pay the $25.00 to get an official enough copy. Then, I had to pay the fee for the ID card (which was at a location that is not on the bus route, and has very limited hours). If I hadn't had my Social Security card readily available, I'd have had to jump through that hoop too.
Click to expand...

This too.

It's all about disenfranchising people, if it wasn't then you'd just get your ID in the mail and that'd be it.
 
N

Nazgul_Hunter

Member
Cesare Borgia said:
The most common photo ID tends to be a driver's license, meaning that if you do not have a car you have to rely on other forms of photo ID which are conveniently not acceptable in many states (student ID for example). I'd have no problem with photo ID requirements if everyone had easy, free access to them. Of course republicans make the entire process as cumbersome as possible, including closing down DMV locations in inner cities.
Click to expand...

Got it... Yeah where I come from, getting your photo ID when you turn 18 is almost like a rite of passage (it's also free)
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
adam387 said:
Right? That wasn't even the story. lol

Mess.
Click to expand...

The phrasing is important because it lets him deny it without saying the story is false, which would open up a huge shitstorm over his head given who is doing the reporting.

Nazgul_Hunter said:
Got it... Yeah where I come from, getting your photo ID when you turn 18 is almost like a rite of passage (it's also free)
Click to expand...

Yea, we gotta spend money on that shit in most places.
 
M

minor effort

Banned
adam387 said:
Right? That wasn't even the story. lol

Mess.

Also, the fact that the Trump campaign doesn't know if Cruz is going to endorse, but they're letting him speak anyway is fucking INSANE
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Yeah, there was the reason this was held as a requirement for Bernie Sanders to get a speaking slot at the Democratic convention.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Clinton over 80% with Hispanics JESUS

I really think Clinton has something of a silent majority. Especially for millennials, would anyone think Clinton generates much enthusiasm among her supporters? I think (and can speak from personal experience here) that many of the younger Clinton supporters aren't going to be public about their support for Clinton so they don't get shouted down by their peers, whereas the older generations that support her aren't the ones typically posting on NeoGAF and Reddit.

CO/NV looking safe, probably FL. VA as well although for different demographic reasons. Trump is locked out of the White House, methinks.
 
J

JohnTinker

Limbaugh Parrot
Friend who works for Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office told me last night that they're supplying the motorcade for HRC on Friday, so the announcement will be here in the Tampa area.
 
M

metalslimer

Member
Aaron Strife said:
Clinton over 80% with Hispanics JESUS

I really think Clinton has something of a silent majority. Especially for millennials, would anyone think Clinton generates much enthusiasm among her supporters? I think (and can speak from personal experience here) that many of the younger Clinton supporters aren't going to be public about their support for Clinton so they don't get shouted down by their peers, whereas the older generations that support her aren't the ones typically posting on NeoGAF and Reddit.
Click to expand...

Just anecdotally but I feel like there is a lot of young minority support for Clinton and a lot of excitement for Clinton from minorities. African American women especially I feel like are a huge group for her.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Aaron Strife said:
Clinton over 80% with Hispanics JESUS

I really think Clinton has something of a silent majority. Especially for millennials, would anyone think Clinton generates much enthusiasm among her supporters? I think (and can speak from personal experience here) that many of the younger Clinton supporters aren't going to be public about their support for Clinton so they don't get shouted down by their peers, whereas the older generations that support her aren't the ones typically posting on NeoGAF and Reddit.
Click to expand...

There was an article from NBC about this fact after she clinched. A lot of Clinton supporters came out of the woodwork after she won the nomination, I know I saw a bunch reveal that they backed her after NY and didn't do so sooner to avoid the shouting. So it's a dynamic that has some solid backing behind it, even if we don't talk about it much.

JohnTinker said:
Friend who works for Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office told me last night that they're supplying the motorcade for HRC, so the announcement will be here in the Tampa area.
Click to expand...

Known that for a few days, any word on who is coming down? Also very cool.
 
R

Ronin

Member
Aaron Strife said:
Clinton over 80% with Hispanics JESUS

I really think Clinton has something of a silent majority. Especially for millennials, would anyone think Clinton generates much enthusiasm among her supporters? I think (and can speak from personal experience here) that many of the younger Clinton supporters aren't going to be public about their support for Clinton so they don't get shouted down by their peers, whereas the older generations that support her aren't the ones typically posting on NeoGAF and Reddit.

CO/NV looking safe, probably FL. VA as well although for different demographic reasons. Trump is locked out of the White House, methinks.
Click to expand...
I've been invited to a couple of secret Hillary groups on Facebook for that exact reason. They've started coming out more since California wrapped though.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
metalslimer said:
Just anecdotally but I feel like there is a lot of young minority support for Clinton and a lot of excitement for Clinton from minorities. African American women especially I feel like are a huge group for her.
Click to expand...
And black women had the highest turnout of any race+gender combo in 2008 and 2012.

Win win win! Maybe Hispanics, black men and white liberals can try and catch up and we'll see some real change in this country.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Aaron Strife said:
Clinton over 80% with Hispanics JESUS

I really think Clinton has something of a silent majority. Especially for millennials, would anyone think Clinton generates much enthusiasm among her supporters? I think (and can speak from personal experience here) that many of the younger Clinton supporters aren't going to be public about their support for Clinton so they don't get shouted down by their peers, whereas the older generations that support her aren't the ones typically posting on NeoGAF and Reddit.

CO/NV looking safe, probably FL. VA as well although for different demographic reasons. Trump is locked out of the White House, methinks.
Click to expand...

This doesn't explain polling.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
ShOcKwAvE said:
This will likely reverse after next week. Pretty sure McCain and Romney both got closer around convention time.
Click to expand...
McCain actually had the lead in polling around August and September. Once the market crashed he was done.

NYCmetsfan said:
This doesn't explain polling.
Click to expand...
It would explain that Hispanic polling. A lot of pollsters are generally terrible at capturing Hispanic turnout/support.

Clinton's lead looks amazingly solid in Colorado. I think if polls are showing a moderate lead in NV it's probably much bigger because of the Hispanic dynamic. FL is ok for her although it's still obviously a swing state (I wouldn't see her winning by more than say 5), VA is rock solid according to scuttlebutt.

Her polling right now is probably rock bottom due to the email scandal, and Trump is sucking all the oxygen out of the room right now thanks to the RNC (not in a way that will help him, just take attention off of Clinton). If she doesn't get a big bounce from the DNC I'll be worried.
 
T

TheCrow

Member
metalslimer said:
Just anecdotally but I feel like there is a lot of young minority support for Clinton and a lot of excitement for Clinton from minorities. African American women especially I feel like are a huge group for her.
Click to expand...

She does have strong favorables from minorities. It's just that it's terrible among white voters.
 
H

Hazmat

Member
whyamihere said:
YUP.

http://www.courthousenews.com/2016/07/19/court-under-deadline-for-texas-voter-id-ruling.htm
Click to expand...

I always showed my driver's license because it was easier, but it's made me feel dirty ever since this law was passed. I look forward to not doing so at the earliest opportunity.

This is the third loss that the heinous, oppressive state government of Texas (my home state) has been dealt by the federal courts recently (Affirmative Action at UT and the abortion clinic restrictions being the others). Proof positive that a liberal President making appointments to those courts is the best way to move this country forward for all its citizens.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Aaron Strife said:
Clinton over 80% with Hispanics JESUS

I really think Clinton has something of a silent majority. Especially for millennials, would anyone think Clinton generates much enthusiasm among her supporters? I think (and can speak from personal experience here) that many of the younger Clinton supporters aren't going to be public about their support for Clinton so they don't get shouted down by their peers, whereas the older generations that support her aren't the ones typically posting on NeoGAF and Reddit.

CO/NV looking safe, probably FL. VA as well although for different demographic reasons. Trump is locked out of the White House, methinks.
Click to expand...
There was an article or long writeup about how people vastly underestimate Hillary's support because men dominate online spaces.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Aaron Strife said:
Clinton over 80% with Hispanics JESUS

I really think Clinton has something of a silent majority. Especially for millennials, would anyone think Clinton generates much enthusiasm among her supporters? I think (and can speak from personal experience here) that many of the younger Clinton supporters aren't going to be public about their support for Clinton so they don't get shouted down by their peers, whereas the older generations that support her aren't the ones typically posting on NeoGAF and Reddit.

CO/NV looking safe, probably FL. VA as well although for different demographic reasons. Trump is locked out of the White House, methinks.
Click to expand...

You get harassed on social media if you "come out" as a Hillary voter and are a certain age. It's not worth the hassle for me to weed through stupid people I friended in High School who want to start fights because I didn't bow to messiah Sanders or don't like Trump at all.

I had actual, reasonable reasons for supporting Hillary over Bernie, but for a lot of people I know, they think I was a big time Bernie supporter because I've always been a very obvious liberal who was never shy to whine about or laugh at the GOP on Facebook. I'm a very pragmatic person, and although I agreed with Bernie's overall message, that's all it was. A message. With Hillary, there were actual plans there I could look at and reasonably believe at least portions of them would be passed.
 
K

Kid Heart

Member
Aaron Strife said:
Clinton over 80% with Hispanics JESUS

I really think Clinton has something of a silent majority. Especially for millennials, would anyone think Clinton generates much enthusiasm among her supporters? I think (and can speak from personal experience here) that many of the younger Clinton supporters aren't going to be public about their support for Clinton so they don't get shouted down by their peers, whereas the older generations that support her aren't the ones typically posting on NeoGAF and Reddit.

CO/NV looking safe, probably FL. VA as well although for different demographic reasons. Trump is locked out of the White House, methinks.
Click to expand...

While I'm not sure I would say she had a a majority of millennials while Sanders was still in the running, I do think people severely underestimated the support she had among the younger demographics. Just as an anecdotal story, one of my friends thought I supported Sanders until I told him I'd been for Clinton even during the primaries.

Now that Sanders is out of the running though I easily think she has the majority of support among them, and will continue to grow once people's wounds begin to heal from Sander's loss during the upcoming months.

(Also, hey guys. I've actually been lurking in this thread for around the last six months, but I figured I would finally take the time to come by and post once in a while.)
 
B

BlastProcessing

Member
Hazmat said:
I always showed my driver's license because it was easier, but it's made me feel dirty ever since this law was passed. I look forward to not doing so at the earliest opportunity.

This is the third loss that the heinous, oppressive state government of Texas (my home state) has been dealt by the federal courts recently (Affirmative Action at UT and the abortion clinic restrictions being the others). Proof positive that a liberal President making appointments to those courts is the best way to move this country forward for all its citizens.
Click to expand...

It's not that big of a loss. The law won't be overturned entirely, only amended to make it 5% less heinous.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
balladofwindfishes said:
You get harassed on social media if you "come out" as a Hillary voter and are a certain age. It's not worth the hassle for me to weed through stupid people I friended in High School who want to start fights because I didn't bow to messiah Sanders or don't like Trump at all.

I had actual, reasonable reasons for supporting Hillary over Bernie, but for a lot of people I know, they think I was a big time Bernie supporter because I've always been a very obvious liberal who was never shy to whine about or laugh at the GOP on Facebook. I'm a very pragmatic person, and although I agreed with Bernie's overall message, that's all it was. A message. With Hillary, there were actual plans there I could look at and reasonably believe at least portions of them would be passed.
Click to expand...
Yeah. My first instinct was to vote for Sanders, but as the campaign wore on I became more iffy about it. I won't deny that there was a certain level of peer pressure involved in my still voting for him.

It's just funny being the go-to politically in my group of friends to suddenly being a cynic and a traitor because I was quite open and honest when people asked me what I thought Bernie's odds were. And also for these people who'd just heard of Bernie like two months ago to boldly proclaim that he is our only chance, that there is and will be no other politician like him, etc etc. Bernie's candidacy riled up a bunch of people who did not give a shit about politics, but then took that ten steps further that they were convinced anyone who disagreed with them (even if like me, ultimately voted for Bernie anyway) was the enemy. I've lost a great deal of respect for several people in my life because of it.

Especially when you know, I'm the one who's been calling and lobbying my Congressmen for various bills and laws, volunteering for campaigns (ran a campaign in 2010), been contributing money to various progressive candidates on a shoestring salary and most importantly have actually voted in every fucking election while all a lot of my Bernie friends have done is sit on their ass and complain about everyone and now I'm the jerk.
 
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