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PoliGAF 2016 |OT8| No, Donald. You don't.

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I just realized this is how the day went.

1. Trump threw Melania under the bus admitting she plagiarized the speech just hours after Manafort went on TV denying it.

2. Trump in an interview with the NYT claimed he would not back up our NATO allies in the event of a Russian attack.

3. Heil Hitler

4. Cruz basically told the base to come out, not vote Trump, vote GOP down ballot.

5. No one remember Mike Pence already.


Fucking WOW. Like...if you would have told me this a week ago...even back then I would have called you crazy!
 
Maybe it's a personal problem of mine. I appreciate the history Hillary has the chance to make if she wins the presidency. But I'm not comforted by the idea of 4 old white people roaming the country for the next several months telling us about the future of the US. Politics is overwhelmingly white as it is and that is a huge problem. I feel like the tickets will extenuate the problem.
To be fair, having a woman on a ticket is enough for some idiots not to vote for Hillary due to sexism, so having Hillary and another minority or Warren might not be a good thing for this year. There's TOO much to risk this year, so I'm fine her making a safe pick.
 

daedalius

Member
To be fair, having a woman on a ticket is enough for some idiots not to vote for Hillary due to sexism, so having Hillary and another minority or Warren might not be a good thing for this year. There's TOO much to risk this year, so I'm fine her making a safe pick.

Sam bee literally spoke to a couple in Pennsylvania that said "we don't need a woman president, women are too dramatic." The guy of course said right after that, "but I'm not sexist, that's just my opinion."

I fucking hate people
 

Sibylus

Banned
To be fair, having a woman on a ticket is enough for some idiots not to vote for Hillary due to sexism, so having Hillary and another minority or Warren might not be a good thing for this year. There's TOO much to risk this year, so I'm fine her making a safe pick.

Picking a bland non-entity nobody is happy with is a risk too. Puts all of the emphasis on Hillary's solitary shoulders.

"Disappointing white guy" is not a default/safe pick, in 2016 of all years.
 

watershed

Banned
Picking a bland non-entity nobody is happy with is a risk too. Puts all of the emphasis on Hillary's solitary shoulders.

"Disappointing white guy" is not a default/safe pick, in 2016 of all years.
That's how I feel too. A pick that makes no one happy is not a good or safe pick. Its the disappointing, underwhelming, energizes no one pick.
 

CCS

Banned
You know what, after Trump's comments on NATO, I'm fully on board with the Stavridis train

CHOO CHOO MOTHERFUCKERS
 

120v

Member
remember when biden was a horrible pick because he was a boring white guy?

just because a veep looks "lame" on paper doesn't mean they won't have an effective role in the administration
 

Drek

Member
Mhmm. I'll be really disappointed if such a boring, uninspired choice like Kaine is made. Especially when he is older and seems to be less liberal than Hillary on certain issues. I want a non-white and/or female VP who, eight years from now, could be prepped to be a Democrat darling.

Plus, the whole issue with losing Virginia in the midterms; I'd rather see someone like Warren, who if she were VP, would most likely not see her previous position controlled by a Republican. Maybe someone like Castro, who not only could accelerate blue Texas, but also is young enough that we would have a younger President who can safely avoid any issues of people questioning his age.

The last thing Clinton should do is look to anoint her successor. Giving the GOP 8 years to run that person into the ground doesn't do that person any good. Picking someone like Castro who lacks the resume and needs the VP post to be a credible candidate feels heavy handed.

It is far better for the 2024 nominee to be selected from an open,contested primary instead of having another presumptive favorite. The bench is deep enough. Sherrod Brown would be about the same age as Trump and younger than Sanders if he runs in 2024, I think he would be a strong candidate. Assuming Booker stays in public office (no reason not to) he would have a solid resume. If he ran to replace Christie as governor he'd have a very strong resume for the job. If Tom Perez actually wins a public office some time between now and 2024 he could be a viable darkhorse candidate. There are a lot of other worthwhile options as well who could step forward with the right events over the next eight years.

The Dem bench doesn't need Clinton to put her successor in line, they need to have a very competitive and open primary.
 

watershed

Banned
remember when biden was a horrible pick because he was a boring white guy?

just because a veep looks "lame" on paper doesn't mean they won't have an effective role in the administration
I don't remember people saying that. Biden was always loud and outspoken and funny. He was also gaffe prone but I don't remember anyone saying Biden was boring. I think most people also agreed he was a good complement to Obama as well. Kaine has none of those qualities.
 
I finally got around to reading Trump's full NYT interview.

Holy shit, Trump is fucking insane.

The fact that there is a non-zero chance he would become President is absolutely terrifying.

At first it was a bit funny. Then it was a bit ridiculous. Now. wow. His foreign policy ideas are fucking insane. I don't know how else to describe them.

If I'm Hillary, Colin Powell and Condi Rice need to be on the phone. If Condi endorses her...which that NYT interview should scare every fucking respectable Republican alive, maybe it'll allow the floodgates to open a bit.

In some ways it's unfortunate the NYT has that piece tonight of all nights. This needs to be leading every news broadcast. IT'S FUCKING INSANE,

Goodnight.
 

120v

Member
I don't remember people saying that. Biden was always loud and outspoken and funny. He was also gaffe prone but I don't remember anyone saying Biden was boring. I think most people also agreed he was a good complement to Obama as well. Kaine has none of those qualities.

poliGAF was pretty livid
 
Wow dumpster fire for 3 nights in a row.

Is it just me, or did the Trump campaign throw Pence under the bus to try to get an endorsement from Cruz?

That NYT is another dumpster fire, but will be buried I'm afraid.
 
Wow dumpster fire for 3 nights in a row.

Is it just me, or did the Trump campaign throw Pence under the bus to try to get an endorsement from Cruz?

That NYT is another dumpster fire, but will be buried I'm afraid.
CNN at least has actually been spending a fair amount of time on that story since it came out last night and keep going back to it and aside from Lewandowski (lol CNN, why?) seem to be in agreement that it's terrible and undermined Pence's message to boot. Don't know if that will keep it (probably not) but they at least didn't let it get completely buried.

Edit: Sounds like Morning Joe is about to dig into it.
 
Kaine is just the wrong pick. And Vilsack and other guy whose name I can't spell off-hand don't seem much better. It's unfortunate to me that Hillary feels she has progressives locked up and is more interested in making a pick to appeal to white male voters who don't support Trump.
What if it's not about appealing to anyone in particular...?
are they afraid having 2 women on the ticket will scare voters away or something?
Probably. And I don't think that's necessarily a false proposition. feelthekainesack
A lot of people in both parties have looked at a Hillary presidency as an inevitability for the last decade or more, so it almost feels like a dual woman ticket or a not-all-white ticket is needed to make it feel as historic/progressive as it really should... and that makes me kind of sad, actually.
This is kind of an interesting take I hadn't really considered.

It's just Hillary Clinton. So it's not enough.

Her history making moment of being nominated was already kind of rained on.
 
CNN at least has actually been spending a fair amount of time on that story since it came out last night and keep going back to it and aside from Lewandowski (lol CNN, why?) seem to be in agreement that it's terrible and undermined Pence's message to boot. Don't know if that will keep it (probably not) but they at least didn't let it get completely buried.

Edit: Sounds like Morning Joe is about to dig into it.

Yeah I'm afraid that in the buildup to his speech the media will mostly ignore that interview. But yeah, it's not being ignored.


LOL @Karl Rove's WSJ article. "Just win all the battleground states and you'll win".
 

Diablos

Member
I wouldn't care about Kaine if not for the possibility that there's some bribery scandal looming. She needs someone squeaky clean when you consider his badly the email fiasco has hurt her image.
 

thebloo

Member
LOL @Karl Rove's WSJ article. "Just win all the battleground states and you'll win".

The next step toward 270 is Florida, which awards 29 electoral votes. President Obama’s 0.9% margin of victory there in 2012 was his narrowest. If Mrs. Clinton wins Florida, along with the 18 states (and D.C.) with 242 electoral votes that Democrats have carried in all of the last six elections, she’s president.

Good.

The article for those who want a very dry look at Trump's path to the WH: http://www.wsj.com/articles/dont-waste-your-time-donald-1469056450
 

Crocodile

Member
From Day 1 Clinton has said her primary concern is choosing a VP is someone who could step into the role of President if something happened to her. Kaine has been a mayor, senator, governor, DNC chairman, is bilingual, has FP experience, etc. I mean by every metric it looks like the man is super-qualified to me. Does Warren or any minority who was on the short list match that resume (legit question)? I don't think "get the white vote" is on her mind. "Most qualified person I get along with" I think is her driving principle on this selection. For someone celebrated as a policy wonk, is that really a bad/surprising idea? I'm usually the last person to make the following critique but - I don't think choosing someone more because they are young or for representation should come before a solid resume. Not that everyone "on the list" isn't smart and super capable but Kaine resume seems legit a lot better than most of them. I can't down with someone like Castro who still needs some time to marinate and I'm sure Warren not giving two shits about FP is probably a problem.
 

Kusagari

Member
The number one thing dogging Hillary right now is enthusiasm. I just don't see how picking a boring old white guy is going to help in that regard.
 
Having Cruz booed was incredibly stupid. If they hadn't, the lack of endorsement would just have been a bullet point in a summary of the evening. Instead, "party disunity" is the headline. God, Trump is dumb.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I can't believe Cruz thinks this will help him.

Big donors are going to remember this in 4 years.
 
Would not be surprised. Trump get decimated in the first, claims media bias, doesn't show up. I would be more surprised if there were 3

I would be amazed if there WEREN'T 3 debates. It's free publicity.

I think Trump thinks he can wing it for 4.5 hours in exchange for all the exposure.

If I were Clinton I would say 3 debates or bust. Only one debate exposes her too much to any mistake.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
The number one thing dogging Hillary right now is enthusiasm. I just don't see how picking a boring old white guy is going to help in that regard.
The thing dogging her is trustworthiness, not enthusiasm. I don't think Kaine helps with either honestly. But not sure Warren does either. But at least there's upside.
 
Trump starts stashing cash in the bank
The campaign's improved financial picture offers good news in a bumpy convention week.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/donald-trump-fundraising-fec-225926

This is definitely worth noting:

The report did not show any payments to Meredith McIver, the Trump Organization employee who on Wednesday took responsibility for plagiarism in Melania Trump's prime-time speech at the convention. It's unclear if that's because McIver volunteered her time or if her work only occurred in July. But Trump has taken heat for being sloppy with distinctions between campaign and corporate resources before, such as when his company's lawyer sent threatening letters to political critics.

McIver's work might also be permissible if Trump paid back the company for its employee's time, as the new FEC report indicates for several other people. But the fact that her statement appeared on company letterhead and describes her as a company employee suggests her speechwriting amounts to an improper corporate contribution, according to Charlie Spies, a campaign finance lawyer who advised the pro-Jeb Bush super PAC Right to Rise and filed an FEC complaint against the Trump campaign on this issue.

“Melania Trump gave an excellent speech and has not been served well by a campaign that doesn’t appear to follow the rules," Spies said. "They have been put on notice of the legal prohibitions of using corporate resources for campaign work and sending a letter on corporate letterhead from a corporate employee implies a blatant violation of federal rules."
 
The number one thing dogging Hillary right now is enthusiasm. I just don't see how picking a boring old white guy is going to help in that regard.
In any normal election,then the "boring" white guy VP would be taking into consideration in terms of picking a minority as a VP, but having Trump as the nominee is going to drive out strong minority turnout for Hillary. I might be wrong, but she's not doing the best with white male voters, so perhaps Kaine or the Supreme Allied Commander can can help that
 

Diablos

Member
I can't believe Cruz thinks this will help him.

Big donors are going to remember this in 4 years.
He has nothing to lose at this point.

The thing dogging her is trustworthiness, not enthusiasm. I don't think Kaine helps with either honestly. But not sure Warren does either. But at least there's upside.
Yeah, the bottom of the ticket need not be bogged down in scandal or even the possibility of one. Hills don't mess this up.

Vilsack pls
 

Kusagari

Member
The thing dogging her is trustworthiness, not enthusiasm. I don't think Kaine helps with either honestly. But not sure Warren does either. But at least there's upside.

The thing fluctuating in polls is people saying they support her and then randomly deciding they're undecided again. Now, trustworthiness might be a big factor in that but I do think at the core that also comes down to enthusiasm in her as a candidate.

Someone like Warren or Perez could maybe get those wafflers to stay committed. I think we can say for a fact Kaine and Vilsack won't.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
The thing fluctuating in polls is people saying they support her and then randomly deciding they're undecided again. Now, trustworthiness might be a big factor in that but I do think at the core that also comes down to enthusiasm in her as a candidate.

Someone like Warren or Perez could maybe get those wafflers to stay committed. I think we can say for a fact Kaine and Vilsack won't.

It's absolutely not random. It's caused by stuff like the fbi director saying she's a dirty stay out
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
He has nothing to lose at this point.


Yeah, the bottom of the ticket need not be bogged down in scandal or even the possibility of one. Hills don't mess this up.

Vilsack pls

He does, actually. He had a respectable 2nd place performance this time around and has a decent base of loyalists. He could have laid low and then came back in 2020 with the, "See, you should have supported me!" line. Now he irritated all big donors by not being united. EVERY single opponent will bring that up in the primaries next year. They'll make it look like he was out for himself instead of supporting the party.

I think it was a mistake.
 
He does, actually. He had a respectable 2nd place performance this time around and has a decent base of loyalists. He could have laid low and then came back in 2020 with the, "See, you should have supported me!" line. Now he irritated all big donors by not being united. EVERY single opponent will bring that up in the primaries next year. They'll make it look like he was out for himself instead of supporting the party.

I think it was a mistake.

Big donors couldn't give one iota about the past, if you're talking about talk radio and conservative institutions I agree 100%, but big donors care about the present and future.

And Hildawg, it's not difficult. #teamVilsack.
 
I don't remember people saying that. Biden was always loud and outspoken and funny. He was also gaffe prone but I don't remember anyone saying Biden was boring. I think most people also agreed he was a good complement to Obama as well. Kaine has none of those qualities.

People may not have said he was boring but there was plenty of criticism of Biden for being a corrupt, war-mongering Washington insider who couldn't compete with the exciting, new Sarah Palin.

Someone like Warren or Perez could maybe get those wafflers to stay committed. I think we can say for a fact Kaine and Vilsack won't.

Warren maybe but no one outside of this board even knows who Perez is. I can't think a reason why he would be more appealing to the average voter than Kaine.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Big donors couldn't give one iota about the past, if you're talking about talk radio and conservative institutions I agree 100%, but big donors care about the present and future.

And Hildawg, it's not difficult. #teamVilsack.

Right, it isn't just donors. The Hannity's, the Limbaugh et al.
 
Plouffe on the race:

The Playbook Interview: David Plouffe

David Plouffe, one of the closest advisers to Barack Obama, told Playbook it’s “more likely Trump gets under 200 electoral votes than he gets 270,” predicting a massive, landslide loss for the Republican nominee.

“This is going to sound crazy but I think she’s like a 99 percent chance favorite to win," said Plouffe, who is now an adviser to Uber but is in frequent contact with the Clinton campaign. “I don’t think that Trump wins any of the states that Romney lost … Clinton’s actually going to have a field-goal unit. Trump has no field-goal unit. Clinton could do [one to three points] better in some states, just based on running a more sophisticated and smart campaign.” Excerpts:

What Trump needs to do tonight: “I think he has to find a way to kind of separate himself from Clinton, separate himself from some of the Republican orthodoxy that is not terribly popular, and have people you know look at him as, ‘OKI could see him as president.’ And it doesn’t mean he should turn into a vanilla automaton -- he’s always going to be Trump, but that to me is the most important thing. And to really try and nail down what is this race about. It’s not about Donald Trump; the race is about American people and their concerns, and where they want to go, and so he needs to answer the mail in terms of why he’s the right man at this moment.”

Clinton might outperform Obama: “Hillary could outperform Obama in some states. I think [in] Florida she can do better than we did. Potentially New Hampshire, good state for her despite what happened in the primary. I think she could do better there … But of all the battleground states -- Nevada, Colorado, Iowa (Michigan’s not, if you want to throw Wisconsin in there, fine, Nevada) Virginia, North Carolina, Florida -- I don’t think Trump wins any of them.”

Why Melania’s speech won’t matter: “I don’t think there’s going to be a single voter [who] casts a vote based on that, but it’s a distraction and if they just announced yesterday that it was a mistake, then I think all the media would’ve moved on. So that’s — that’s the sin, is how they handled it.”

Hillary’s trustworthy numbers won’t go up. “I’d be surprised if she comes out of Philadelphia without some significant change in her fave/unfave, I think that will strengthen, I really do. I think it’ll be a really good week, the party will be unified, people will see her compared to Trump, and in very close proximity, for the first time, I think that will help her. But those trust numbers are probably not gonna get improved that much. Every candidate has strengths and weaknesses, so this time 8 years ago in July of 2008, John McCain had a 35-point lead for us on national security, OK? And on experience. You’re not gonna have positives on everything.”

Republicans missed 2016 opportunity: “This was a winnable race for the right Republican candidate. So I think that’s probably why people here in Cleveland, some of them are so downcast. Is they know this was a race that — well, certainly should’ve been very competitive, but it could’ve been winnable … But that’s what I think is tragic if you’re a Republican ... you know, maybe you still would’ve lost, but it would’ve been close … you had a chance to win.”

Veepstakes: “The most over-covered story in politics, I think it’s the VP selection’s impact on the campaign. Because voters view it as the two people at the top of the ticket ... This is a good audition for the White House, where, you know anything that comes into the Oval Office is tough and hard and complicated and you’ve got advisers and experts but at the end of the day, it’s fairly lonely decision-making that happens. I think that’s what this is. So this needs to not be a committee decision, it needs to be a decision by the principle. And I think it’s gotta be totally based on comfort level, trust, rapport, and a sense of who will help most if I win.”

Trump poses difficult debate prep. “I think preparing for Trump will be hard because you have to prepare for crazy Trump and statesmen-like Trump, and attacking Trump, and counter-punching Trump. So I do not envy their preparation … I think the only thing that would be comparable is the ’92, we had, you know, [third-party candidate Ross] Perot in the race and that made preparing for debates complicated. I think this is going to be super complicated.”
...

Can't say I disagree with them.
 
Fox is eating Cruz alive. Never thought I'd see the day.

Cruz may be getting killed today but if Trump losses huge Republicans will remember him as the guy who stood up to Trump in public. May not work out, but its a bold play for someone who is already intensely disliked.
 
I can't believe Cruz thinks this will help him.

Big donors are going to remember this in 4 years.
How many big donors are supporting Trump? Not many. And Cruz out raised more of his opponents this year with big Texas donors and and an impressive grassroots campaign. I don't think he'll get it he nomination next time but it'll be due to primary rule changes, not money.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Fox is eating Cruz alive. Never thought I'd see the day.

Yep. It was a huge mistake.

Cesare Borgia said:
How many big donors are supporting Trump? Not many. And Cruz out raised more of his opponents this year with big Texas donors and and an impressive grassroots campaign. I don't think he'll get it he nomination next time but it'll be due to primary rule changes, not money.

As already clarified, donors aren't the only problem. See above with FOX News, and I guarantee talk radio is blasting him for weeks. This won't be forgotten.
 
I still can't believe he stuck up for atheists. Ted Cruz.

It was such a contradictory speech. He stood up for LGBT people but we all know his call for states right was a call for states to be able to discriminate against them. His entire speech actually said nothing but was wrapped in nice platitudes. Which I guess makes since because a lot of people are calling most of his speech a great defense of conservatism
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
People get over stuff fast. Four years ago trump was talking about how great Hillary is.

And republicans always always always fall in line.
 
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