Support NeoGAF

[BenjaminBirdie]

Umm.. I'll believe it when I see it.

Georgia!

Clinton 44
Trump 37
Johnson 7
Stein 1

http://winwithjmc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Georgia-Executive-Summary.pdf

georgia

sweet georgia

no trump i find

just votes for clinton

keeps georgia super rad

 

[Y2Kev]

Trumps economic speech is like all tax cuts. Wtf. Who thinks this is economic policy.

 

[Nazgul_Hunter]

It is just absurd how orange turd can commit so many campaign ending mistakes, insult even his own supporters yet still have a chance while simultaneously asking everyone to forget about what happened just a week ago in order to get everything 'back on track.' If this doesn't help show without a shadow of a doubt at how incompetent and dangerous orange turd is nothing will. He is a walking insult to all humanity and a danger to the world and I don't mean this as an exaggeration. Orange turd is the most unprepared, ignorant and bigoted individual to want power, undeservedly, in our modern era.

I suspect that's mostly media narrative. I think there's a chance Trump has already blown his chance to win because his media exposure made more people learn about him, and what they've learned is disqualifying. People don't normally get this exposed to a candidate this early.

 

[Frank the Great]

Umm.. I'll believe it when I see it.

Georgia!

Clinton 44
Trump 37
Johnson 7
Stein 1

http://winwithjmc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Georgia-Executive-Summary.pdf

4% MoE. Therefore Clinton could have 40 and Trump could have 41, which means that in reality Trump is still winning.

Try again biased pollsters.

 

[Frank the Great]

Trumps economic speech is like all tax cuts. Wtf. Who thinks this is economic policy.

Republicans.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Meanwhile if we're operating on the premise that a lot of people are dumb and horrible. Which I'm fine with doing. How do you expect the hippy kumbaya commune to work.

 

[Crisco]

Thing is, even 9/11 was a pretty severe break from Al-Qaeda's prior modus operandi. Their highest profile attacks before that were the USS Cole and the embassy in Kenya. The fact that the towers were a wholly civilian/non-government target actually led to a significant revolt against Al-Qaeda from the Muslim community and began a rather precipitous drop in their popularity.

 

[Valhelm]

I don't believe the will of the people should be followed at all times. I have no idea where you derived that.

We operate in representative democracies because people are dumb. Even then their dumbness still leaks through.

That doesn't mean that I'm going to veer all the way to your authoritarian hippy commune.

I'm not asking you to! But your posts (and that one by NYCmetsfan) suggested that if an ideology isn't popular with a critical mass of voters, it's less legitimate.

I think that because ideology is clearly so heavily affected by societal conditions, that's not a legitimate argument. I'm sure you agree that many more Americans would support alternatives for capitalism if anti-socialist rhetoric wasn't historically (and currently?) so intense.

Meanwhile if we're operating on the premise that a lot of people are dumb and horrible. Which I'm fine with doing. How do you expect the hippy kumbaya commune to work.

I'm not a communist. But the communist attitude is that selfishness is a result of capitalist society. When you take away rules, people loot and steal because they've been conditioned to only consume and exploit. And in a society without scarcity or any substantial inequality, potential criminals wouldn't be motivated to screw over their neighbors. I think there's some merit to this idea, but i also think assholes are always going to exist. Hence, a state is necessary.

 

[benjipwns]

http://www.evanmcmullin.com/

 

[hawk2025]

I'm not asking you to! But your posts (and that one by NYCmetsfan) suggested that if an ideology isn't popular with a critical mass of voters, it's less legitimate.

I think that because ideology is clearly so heavily affected by societal conditions, that's not a legitimate argument. I'm sure you agree that many more Americans would support alternatives for capitalism if anti-socialist rhetoric wasn't historically (and currently?) so intense.

I'd argue it is less legitimate.

That doesn't mean it can't be more correct/fair/whatever you want to use, but the onus of proving its correctness is on the people proposing it, either through prose or force.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Thing is, even 9/11 was a pretty severe break from Al-Qaeda's prior modus operandi. Their highest profile attacks before that were the USS Cole and the embassy in Kenya. The fact that the towers were a wholly civilian/non-government target actually led to a significant revolt against Al-Qaeda from the Muslim community and began a rather precipitous drop in their popularity.

Who was behind the 1994 attempt to blow up the WTC?

 

[Basileus777]

Evan McMullin's candidacy is already so impactful that no one refers to him by name, not even in this thread. The guy is a nobody that is going to be behind Johnson and Stein as a complete nonfactor.

 

[benjipwns]

Who was behind the 1994 attempt to blow up the WTC?

There wasn't one.

Iraq was behind the 1993 WTC Bombing. Laurie Mylroie told me so.

 

[shinra-bansho]

My post didn't say that it was less legitimate as an ideology. Whatever that's supposed to mean.

See Gotchaye's post. Your ideology is the Vita.

 

[Cesare Borgia]

Umm.. I'll believe it when I see it.

Georgia!

Clinton 44
Trump 37
Johnson 7
Stein 1

http://winwithjmc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Georgia-Executive-Summary.pdf

Something seems off about this poll.

 

[pigeon]

Also the weird LA Times tracking poll now shows Hillary leading. Trump leads nothing.

 

[benjipwns]

Best part of the WTC93 bombing:

A vehicle identification number (VIN), found on a piece from an axle, gave investigators crucial information that led them to a Ryder truck rental outlet in Jersey City. Investigators determined that the vehicle had been rented by Mohammed A. Salameh, one of Yousef's co-conspirators. Salameh had reported the van stolen, and when he returned on March 4, 1993, to get his deposit back, authorities arrested him.

 

[User 463088]

Like, seriously, why does the right have such problems with accepting polls? LIke, I get it. You lose in them, because you lose in real life. But, this stove has burned you before!

 

[shinra-bansho]

I'd argue it is less legitimate.

That doesn't mean it can't be more correct/fair/whatever you want to use, but the onus of proving its correctness is on the people proposing it, either through prose or force.

If Sony made everyone buy a Vita at gunpoint, they'd probably learn to love it.

 

[ampere]

Umm.. I'll believe it when I see it.

Georgia!

Clinton 44
Trump 37
Johnson 7
Stein 1

http://winwithjmc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Georgia-Executive-Summary.pdf

44 - 48 Obama approval rating... I guess all 44% could be for Clinton

I hope this polling trend of Georgia being close continues, but this is probably an outlier

Evan McMullin's candidacy is already so impactful that no one refers to him by name, not even in this thread. The guy is a nobody that is going to be behind Johnson and Stein as a complete nonfactor.

Yeah I think he'll possibly even "drop out" in a week or two when nobody cares

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

So to hopefully prevent Diablosing, this third party candidate is good for Hillary.

This guy is a former CIA advisor and GOP policy director who was also a banker with Goldman Sachs! Also, a Mormon. He was basically made in a laboratory to appeal to the GOP constituencies who are most disaffected by Trump.

The most likely outcome is probably that he does nothing. The second most likely outcome is that he stems the bleeding of GOP voters to Hillary and the Libertarians, which is a little sad because then we don't pile up as many GOP converts. But in this scenario he also ensures Trump's defeat by cutting into his margins, which runs up Hillary's score.

Basically if we wanted a landslide victory with 49 states this guy is the only way that will happen. It probably still won't happen but he offers the chance.

Yeah, I don't see how this is a concern. Anti-Trump Republicans aren't reliable Hillary voters at all--they're not part of the path to victory.

Hillary can beat a generic R with a well-run campaign (i.e. optimal D voter turnout vs. reliable R voters). All a third-party Republican does is split that generic R vote and ensure there are no late-breaking Trump voters.

 

[kirblar]

Like, seriously, why does the right have such problems with accepting polls? LIke, I get it. You lose in them, because you lose in real life. But, this stove has burned you before!

The far left had the same problem this cycle. They just haven't taken over the party.

 

[Valhelm]

Your argument on the... genetic predisposition of institutions in Russia even after a revolution, by the way, creates a very much self-defeating argument for the US. If self-interest creates terrible outcomes under capitalism in the US due to what it has "essentially always been", why would it not happen again under Syndicalism?

Under your logic of institutional stickyness, why would trade union leaders be fundamentally different from current business owners?

I break with a lot of socialists because I don't think the US is a horribly diseased society. I think that for a while, the US was pretty progressive, treating people well as long as they were considered human. White men in 1820s America enjoyed many more liberties than their contemporaries in Prussia. After the advent of white male enfranchisement, we began the slow and very painful extension of these rights to other groups. Slowly, political humanity was extended to marginalized groups. Obviously, it wasn't complete. African Americans have been legally equal since the '60s but endure horrible mistreatment at the hands of the state and private citizens. But given that our society is generally free, individuals can still demand change and actively affect their governance. Even despite the brutality of the Red Scares, socialist parties existed throughout the Cold War and are rising to slightly greater prominence.

We can assume that an socialist America would look a lot like a capitalist America, except for the obvious lack of private exploitation. Because American socialism would be designed by Americans, it wouldn't have much in common with the Sino-Soviet model. In the recent US, there isn't a tradition of summary executions or prison camps. We've never been a one-party state. I don't think suspending elections has ever been proposed.

Russia didn't enjoy this kind of reformist history. Conditions improved only when the state could not prevent them from improving, and the only period in which Russia could be considered remotely democratic were in the uncertain months after the Empire was abolished. Subjects of the Russian Empire were working with what they knew, and the size and ethnic diversity of Russia convinced many Soviet politicians that repression is inevitable.

Leon Trotsky wasn't any beacon of ethics, but he observed as early as the 1920s that the USSR was falling back on the old traditions of the Empire. Vladimir Lenin decided to remove control of industry from trade unions and instead give this power to the government, in which bureaucrats took the role of capitalists and aristocrats. Stalin's secret police behaved pretty identically to the Tsar's cossack attack dogs. Both sent political dissidents to languish in Siberia.

Your argument about trade unions is pretty common, but usually comes from the left. Communists further left than Trotsky often think that a "democratic company" is still dangerous because it is a company. While I see where these people (known as left-communists) are coming from, I don't think there's a more effective way of organizing industry. The lack of wage hierarchy and commercialism is important enough.

 

[Y2Kev]

The far left had the same problem this cycle. They just haven't taken over the party.

Remember exit poll mania?

 

[User 463088]

The far left had the same problem this cycle. They just haven't taken over the party.

Ugh, true enough. I forgot about them. Or tried to.

Remember exit poll mania?

Ya, but that's FRAUD.

 

[phisheep]

Evan McMullin's candidacy is already so impactful that no one refers to him by name, not even in this thread. The guy is a nobody that is going to be behind Johnson and Stein as a complete nonfactor.

He should change his name to Evan NotTrump.

 

[whyamihere]

Few thoughts:

- GEORGIA!

- Trump is supposed to be a populist candidate, but his entire argument that HILLARY IS OWNED BY WALL STREET is completely neutered by proposing NO NEW WALL STREET REGULATIONS. You're trying to turn him into a normal Republican with policies that lost in 08 and 12. Why would the populace respond differently now? Also, it's going to sound ridiculous coming out of his mouth.

 

[Veritigo_X]

Something to think about.

Bill Mitchell @mitchellvii
Imagine polls don't exist. Show me evidence Hillary is winning?

https://twitter.com/mitchellvii/status/762497721831874561

 

[benjipwns]

He should change his name to Evan NotTrump.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro-Life_(politician)

 

[Wilsongt]

He's Trump/Hillary in Prison reddit numbers:

Who Posted? Total Posts: 4,853
User Name	Posts
adam387		286
nature boy	108
Rebel Leader	108
ampere		100
Y2Kev		96
whyamihere	94
Iolo		78
BrokenFiction	74
B-Dubs		71
benjipwns	69

Who Posted? Total Posts: 19,989
User Name	Posts
adam387		1,068
benjipwns	45

Who Posted? Total Posts: 19,992
User Name	Posts
adam387		1,293
benjipwns	55

Who Posted? Total Posts: 19,679
User Name	Posts
adam387		1,253
benjipwns	111

Who Posted? Total Posts: 19,615
User Name	Posts
adam387		405
benjipwns	159

User Name	Posts
adam387		1,234

Who Posted? Total Posts: 19,584
User Name	Posts
adam387		890
benjipwns	98

Who Posted? Total Posts: 19,932
User Name	Posts
adam387		1,167
benjipwns	74

Who Posted? Total Posts: 19,975
User Name	Posts
adam387		525
benjipwns	376

Well... My wig has been thoroughly snatched.

 

[TomServo]

Umm.. I'll believe it when I see it.

Georgia!

Clinton 44
Trump 37
Johnson 7
Stein 1

...

 

[Gotchaye]

Something to think about.



https://twitter.com/mitchellvii/status/762497721831874561

How can her lead be real if our polls aren't real?

 

[Valhelm]

Few thoughts:

- GEORGIA!

- Trump is supposed to be a populist candidate, but his entire argument that HILLARY IS OWNED BY WALL STREET is completely neutered by proposing NO NEW WALL STREET REGULATIONS. You're trying to turn him into a normal Republican with policies that lost in 08 and 12. Why would the populace respond differently now? Also, it's going to sound ridiculous coming out of his mouth.

Trump is a populist in the ol' ethnic nationalist model. His economic policies and racial policies are inseparable. Hillary's buddies sold your job to the Chinese! And your friend's job was stolen by a Mexican!

Besides the wall, Trump's policies aren't that different from other Republicans. They just come from a much more frightening place.

 

[pigeon]

We won't really know how much McMullin matters until we see what kind of support he gets this week. Priors are probably zero to one percent, since it's three months to the election, one month to debates, and he has no campaign or money.

If he gets some endorsements this week (notably Mitt, but he probably also needs a few GOP congresspeople), and if he gets some cash to attack Utah, for example, he could matter.

If he doesn't, he's dust in the wind.

 

[ampere]

Mitt endorsing him would give Hillary a chance to win Utah

I doubt Mitt endorses anyone though. He's still embarrassed that he had zero power to stop Trump winning the nom

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Noooo Jeb(!)'s son endorsed Trump. Y'all leave Jeb(!) alone he's had enough.

 

[RustyNails]

So thats what her short circuiting looks like

 

[Rebel Leader]

A former Ronald Reagan political director says he's voting for Hillary Clinton

Wow. This is fun

 

[whyamihere]

The Hillary campaign apparently reached out to Kissinger for an endorsement.

No.

 

[sphagnum]

When you take away rules, people loot and steal because they've been conditioned to only consume and exploit.

See: 2011 riots in Englands.

Making some good posts in this thread Valhelm.

 

[benjipwns]

We won't really know how much McMullin matters until we see what kind of support he gets this week. Priors are probably zero to one percent, since it's three months to the election, one month to debates, and he has no campaign or money.

If he gets some endorsements this week (notably Mitt, but he probably also needs a few GOP congresspeople), and if he gets some cash to attack Utah, for example, he could matter.

If he doesn't, he's dust in the wind.

He has the backing of previously declared Clinton supporter and Americans Elect board member Christine Todd Whitman, isn't that enough?

The Hillary campaign apparently reached out to Kissinger for an endorsement.

No.

And Condi.

 

[Basileus777]

We won't really know how much McMullin matters until we see what kind of support he gets this week. Priors are probably zero to one percent, since it's three months to the election, one month to debates, and he has no campaign or money.

If he gets some endorsements this week (notably Mitt, but he probably also needs a few GOP congresspeople), and if he gets some cash to attack Utah, for example, he could matter.

If he doesn't, he's dust in the wind.

He needs to actually get on ballots too. The deadlines have passed in half the country and I doubt this guy will have the resources to fight legal battles in every state. And can he even get the signatures he'd need in time for the states that he's still eligible to be on the ballot?

 

[RustyNails]

The Hillary campaign apparently reached out to Kissinger for an endorsement.

No.

Ah the age old Clinton strategy of procuring votes and endorsements at the cost of self inflicted wounds is still at play.

 

[PantherLotus]

It's unfortunate that the one legit concern I have about Hillary -- military adventurism resulting in war crimes -- is one she keeps raising again and again on her own.

What, she couldn't get Cheney to endorse? Rumsfeld not returning calls? I mean, imagine the reaction if she went out looking for a Bank of America endorsement.

edit: there's long been a theory of sexism in politics that suggested the first woman president would have to be a hawk to pass the Commander-in-Chief test. Similar to the 'first black president will be a Republican' theory. Well the latter was overcome, why can't this one?

 

[Deleted member 231381]

The Hillary campaign apparently reached out to Kissinger for an endorsement.

No.

Man, Clinton is really bad at politics sometimes. I mean, really good at politics, but also really bad at politics.

 

[teiresias]

I'm not getting why this dude is getting any coverage at all, I mean this Egg McMuffin guy is probably going to draw less than Johnson and might even draw less than Stein. Who cares at this point other than just another data point pointing to how in the shitter the American Right is?

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Politico got half a whiff of the campaign maybe sorta sending vague "feelers" out to uncommitted GOP elder statesmen. That's the story.

 

[hawk2025]

At least Condi makes some sense.

Kissinger just seems plain stupid. Why mess with that hornet's nest?


Here's the link:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/clinton-republican-elder-statesmen-kissinger-226680

 

[whyamihere]

Politico got half a whiff of the campaign maybe sorta sending vague "feelers" out to uncommitted GOP elder statesmen. That's the story.

You shouldn't be sending out any feelers to Henry Kissinger.

 

[Basileus777]

I'm not getting why this dude is getting any coverage at all, I mean this Egg McMuffin guy is probably going to draw less than Johnson and might even draw less than Stein. Who cares at this point other than just another data point pointing to how in the shitter there American Right is?

He's barely getting any coverage.