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PoliGAF 2016 |OT9| The Wrath of Khan!

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P

pigeon

Banned
CCS said:
I don't disagree, but reading the article a lot of it seems to be more about justifying their support for Trump and implying that the left-wing is at fault rather than accepting that it's on them to change.
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Sounds kind of familiar, doesn't it?

To make my position clear -- we do need to fix Appalachia. I've been posting about this in PoliGAF for a year or two now, until somebody pointed out to me that Hillary is actually on the same page and has an explicit plan for job creation in Appalachia, which is just another example of why she is the best candidate.

However, people need to stop pretending that fixing Appalachia, and generally white rural America, is going to fix racism. We need to help them because that's the purpose of government and our moral responsibility, not because they will stop being racists and start voting Democratic. That won't happen. They'll just be more prosperous and less dysfunctional racists.
 
D

djplaeskool

Member
rEvNA3E.gif


Security is slippin'
 
C

CCS

Banned
pigeon said:
Sounds kind of familiar, doesn't it?

To make my position clear -- we do need to fix Appalachia. I've been posting about this in PoliGAF for a year or two now, until somebody pointed out to me that Hillary is actually on the same page and has an explicit plan for job creation in Appalachia, which is just another example of why she is the best candidate.

However, people need to stop pretending that fixing Appalachia, and generally white rural America, is going to fix racism. We need to help them because that's the purpose of government and our moral responsibility, not because they will stop being racists and start voting Democratic. That won't happen. They'll just be more prosperous and less dysfunctional racists.
Click to expand...

Pretty much this. "Fixing" white rural America might slowly fix racism, but that would be a very slow process over several generations. Racists don't generally stop being racist just because they have more money.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Nazgul_Hunter said:
It sounds like he's reading a book report his parents wrote for him, and he's not losing his shit at protestors. TRUMP TURNED IT AROUND!
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57840.gif


CCS said:
Pretty much this. "Fixing" white rural America might slowly fix racism, but that would be a very slow process over several generations. Racists don't generally stop being racist just because they have more money.
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The issue being that because these communities are so isolated, and there are so few minorities, that's an uphill battle as that sort of isolation breeds racism.
 
H

hawk2025

Member
That fucking thumb-and-index pinch that Trump does annoys the shit out of me.


I've obviously reached the bitcheatingcrackers.jpg stage.
 
T

thefro

Member
benjipwns said:
Worth also noting the women candidates who have ran:

GOP: Margaret Chase Smith, Lynn Morley Martin (briefly), Elizabeth Dole, Michele Bachmann, Carly Fiorina
DEM: Chisholm, Patsy Mink, Pat Schroeder (briefly), Moseley Braun, Clinton

Not exactly a murderer's row of strong female candidates for either party.
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Dole probably would have had a shot had Dubya not ran in 2000... I remember a decent amount of hype for her. Wiki says she was polling 2nd when she dropped out due to lack of funds before any of the primaries.
 
C

Crocodile

Member
Cesare Borgia said:
Many republicans wanted Colin Powell to run in 1996, and JC Watts once had a very promising political career ahead of him. And I think the last 8 years have made it very clear republicans are very receptive to black republicans who say ugly things about black people - ugly things a white person might not be able to get away with. I remember Hermain Cain defending the lack of diversity in the crowd at the RNC by saying white people are more likely to work hard and thus have time to attend a political event.

I'm sure that when Hillary wins we'll see a new wave of far right conservative women trotted out to tell us why women don't want [insert issue women care about].

I don't think the sexism/female hawk theory is controversial or new. It's something I've pondered about Clinton for awhile. Obviously she could simply just be a pro-interventionist hawk, that's the simplest answer.
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Right, I'm well aware of this but that's the problem. We aren't going to vote for them just because their shade of skin is similar to ours (obviously I don't speak for all Black people but just bear with me). There are very few Black Republican voters and Democratic Black voters aren't going to be lured by a Black Republican saying just as much or worse racist shit than your average Republican. That's even a bigger turn off - I don't have time for "NuBlack"/"Uncle Tom"/etc. nonsense and most Black voters would agree. A _______ president can't happen without the majority of support of the _______ community nationwide. That just can't happen for a Black person in the modern Republican party.

As for the sexism/female hawk theory, I already agree with that as I've said. I think you may have misread me if you thought I thought otherwise.
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
thefro said:
Dole probably would have had a shot had Dubya not ran in 2000... I remember a decent amount of hype for her. Wiki says she was polling 2nd when she dropped out due to lack of funds before any of the primaries.
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not disputing your point but just because i looked at them, look at dan quayle's numbers lol
 
U

User 463088

Banned
B-Dubs said:
This reads like a bad middle school book report...
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I know, right?

I had my last writing class with my middle/high schoolers last week. One of them wrote a short story about Trump becoming President and it was better written and more engaging than that drivel. The kid was 13.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
Why woudl you do this speech this week? This should have been done last week. I mean, not that it's a good speech. He's terrible at reading. But still.
 
B

BrokenFiction

Member
CAP Action ‏@CAPAction 6m6 minutes ago

Trump's 15% business tax rate= giant loophole. Rich can classify income as business and pay 15% instead of 33%!
 
phisheep

phisheep

NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Is there some skulduggery with these figures? 35% is tax rate on profits, but he's saying this will reduce to 15% on income?
 
T

Teggy

Member
Binyamin Appelbaum
1m
Binyamin Appelbaum‏ @BCAppelbaum
Donald Trump just described federal unemployment statistics as "one of the biggest hoaxes in American politics." And people applauded.
 
D

DorkLord54

Member
Why does this transcript talk about coal mining? If this were in Marquette or Iron Mountain, I'd understand, but this is Metro Detroit.
 
B

BlastProcessing

Member
benjipwns said:
Slow your roll here.

We're talking about a guy who worked as a House staffer for a couple years, has 135 twitter followers and his only political position is that Obama failed America by withdrawing from Iraq and creating ISIS.
Click to expand...

When you put it that way, it's amazing how much more qualified than Trump he is.

Also:

edolvmu.png


FOUND THE NEXT ONE GUYS!
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Crocodile said:
Irregardless of her tenure at the DNC do you really think she has done wrong by her district (everything seems to suggest she is popular and loved there)? Do you really not think the Wikileaks event was bullshit? Or am I misunderstanding the point you're trying to make? (You're being pretty vague here to be honest).
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I have no idea how she did in her district; I'm into politics but not into local Floridan affairs. I'd want her to be replaced regardless, I'm sure there are many people who could be loved for what they do locally while simultaneously having better placed policy positions and skills to bring to the party, at least more so than DWS.

I dislike the fact that this particular leak came from Russia, and I'd rather Russia didn't interfere with the domestic politics of other countries. However, had the leak come from a different source, I'd have been all in favour. Since it's there, and since it does reveal gross incompetence and bias on behalf of those involved, it is something we should still discuss. Bringing it up doesn't make you "not a Democrat", and frankly it's pretty hypocritical to set up such a test of what is or isn't a Democrat when the poster in question has spent half the thread denouncing (often imagined) purity tests from the other side. Makes him look like a bit of an arse, tbh.
 
H

hawk2025

Member
I see zero issues with attacking DWS on the email leaks, even coming from a democrat.

She's at the center of it. Running for office as a democrat can (and should?) involve taking positions on how the party itself should be run and organized.
 
O

Ophelion

Member
hawk2025 said:
That fucking thumb-and-index pinch that Trump does annoys the shit out of me.


I've obviously reached the bitcheatingcrackers.jpg stage.
Click to expand...

While I'm sure we're all well and truly beyond bitcheatingcrackers.jpg level with Trump, I can safely say that most of us who saw someone gesticulating in the manner that Trump does would probably pretty reliably call that person out as a douche.
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
Cesare Borgia said:
Many republicans wanted Colin Powell to run in 1996, and JC Watts once had a very promising political career ahead of him. And I think the last 8 years have made it very clear republicans are very receptive to black republicans who say ugly things about black people - ugly things a white person might not be able to get away with. I remember Hermain Cain defending the lack of diversity in the crowd at the RNC by saying white people are more likely to work hard and thus have time to attend a political event.

I'm sure that when Hillary wins we'll see a new wave of far right conservative women trotted out to tell us why women don't want [insert issue women care about].

I don't think the sexism/female hawk theory is controversial or new. It's something I've pondered about Clinton for awhile. Obviously she could simply just be a pro-interventionist hawk, that's the simplest answer.
Click to expand...

Good post and great point. Hillary's position on interventionism doesn't have to be explained through political theory or projection. In this case it seems to X is true and Y is true, but we don't know if X caused Y.

Piecake said:
On the other hand, the only way to get this people to change is trying to understand them, respect them, and then slowly change their mind. Ignoring them and calling them white trash is how we end up them supporting Trump.

Now, I am not going to say that's going to work (I haven't even read the article either), but its either understanding, respect and change their minds or ignoring them and hoping that they simply die off.
Click to expand...

Naaaahhhh. Don't blame non-racists for people being racists. That's literally victim blaming.

You don't change a racist's mind anymore than one can change a theist's mind about God. Understanding why they are racist is not useful. You make it politically toxic and culturally unacceptable for decades and decades while increasing access and opportunity for minorities and at-risk communities and using your cultural power centers (NY, SF, LA, Hollywood) to normalize 'other' behavior.

That's very much the reason -- other than maybe creating a worldwide nuclear winter? -- that people are freaked out about Trump. He's erased 30ish years of cultural toxicity surrounding overt racist language. Now maybe we can argue that he didn't create more racism, but he made explicitly (vs. code-language) racist positions a national platform. We could also argue whether or not it will work. We'll know when we see how the GOP fares after 2016.

Crocodile said:
Irregardless of her tenure at the DNC do you really think she has done wrong by her district (everything seems to suggest she is popular and loved there)? Do you really not think the Wikileaks event was bullshit? Or am I misunderstanding the point you're trying to make? (You're being pretty vague here to be honest).
Click to expand...

BRUHHHHHHHHHHHH

Crocodile said:
I agree, its was easy to see how Obama struggles to avoid an "Angry Black Man" label and has to be "president for everybody" since even talking about racial issues tends to send a lot of White people into a rage. That said I don't think patriotism is mutually exclusive with discussing racial issues and you honestly can't avoid touching upon the later subject at all. If Black people overall felt the latter issues wouldn't be touched AT ALL (as opposed that recognize that they might not be as well addressed as they like), Obama wouldn't have gotten the support from the community he did.

To become the first Black president, Obama needed overwhelming support from the Black community (which he had to earn, it wasn't gifted to him just because he was Black) to beat Clinton in the primaries and then get carried across the finish line in 08 and 12. If Clinton wins this year it will in large part be due to the support of women from both sides of the political spectrum. Whenever we get our first Latino/Latina president, it will be from overwhelming support of the Latino community. There are basically no Black voters in Republican primaries (and a lot of non-college educated whites, at least more than Democratic primaries) and most Black people consider the Republican party poison (for obvious reasons). How far a Black person can rise in that party is limited - they can't really break out on the national stage. It's not a "theory" that makes any sense to me if you think about it for even a few minutes.
Click to expand...

You're kinda making the same point but missing the conclusion, which was that (so the theory went at the time) white people would be responsible for electing the first minority to the Presidency. Racist white people.
 
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