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[Maledict]

They already have guns. I mean, I agree that you shouldn't campaign on a massively anti-gun platform, but that's an absence of bad message and not a presence of good message.

You're not going far enough.

Not just a lack of gun restrictions - moar guns! Mandatory gun training and ownership for all citizens! Shooting to be added into common core! Armed officers permanently based in every school!

Funny thing is, even if they did that I still think the NRA would back the republican candidate...

 

[Poodlestrike]

They already have guns. I mean, I agree that you shouldn't campaign on a massively anti-gun platform, but that's an absence of bad message and not a presence of good message.

Like 80% of the Republican platform is screaming about abortion and guns. There's an enormous number of single issue gun voters. Take that away and suddenly they can maybe start hearing the rest of our message.

 

[Maledict]

I think the cross over in those two is very significant to be fair, so eliminating one doesn't save the others (it's guns, God and country after all). I also think that even if the democrats do drop gun control, it won't matter - the single issue voters don't trust them on it, and have become so embedded in that cultur and rhetoric they won't ever shift.

I mean, the proposals the democrats put forward after the shootings under Obama have massive cross party support, and yet all failed in congress due to opposition from the right and the NRA, and they didn't pay a penalty for that at all.

 

[eBay Huckster]

They already have guns.

Yeah, but they can always use more.

 

[BiggNife]

I think everyone here understands why Bernie supporters can be disappointed about Ellison losing. That's a natural reaction.

But the fact of the matter is that Perez is a strong progressive chairman. If Bernie had not endorsed Ellison, I'm betting some people would have thrown their support behind Perez! But because Bernie gave his input, it became a proxy battle. The popular former president obviously wants control of the party going forward so he convinces Perez jumps into the election, receiving an explicit endorsement from Biden (who also should not have endorsed).

I should add that this is the same former president who convinced Tom Perriello to run against Northam in the VA Gov primary, so Obama's support is clearly not a matter of "being establishment."

Responding to the news that Perez won and Ellison will be his Deputy by saying "I'm never voting for Democratic candidates again" or "This party is dead to me" means that all you have a shit about at the end of the day is Bernie's endorsement. You didn't care about policies, you cared that Bernie supported that person.

If people are going to riot about that, then they frankly aren't worth having in the party because they aren't reliable votes. Donald Trump is POTUS now and the Republicans control both the House and Senate and a majority of state governments. We have work to do and people to protect.

So, we understand why people can be disappointed that Ellison lost. I am, since he was who I wanted. But Perez is a fantastic choice and will be working closely with Ellison in the future, as they're clearly both friends. It's time to move on and if people want to continue to complain about the DNC being corrupt or rigged against Bernie even when Bernie and Ellison are both OK with the results, I really don't give a shit about those people. It's not worth acquiescing to them because they'll find something new to complain about if you do.

This is basically where I stand.

I think it is totally understandable that people (including myself) are upset Ellison lost, and I think the Perez voters should at least take a second and understand why Ellison supporters are upset instead of being all "Ellison lost, get over it," which doesn't help anyone and just creates more animosity.

Having said that, right now it's time to move on and get shit done. I think appointing Ellison as deputy was an excellent move on Perez's part, and I agree with Ellison that we really don't have the luxury to bitch about this kind of stuff right now. Priority should be 2018, plain and simple.

 

[Y2Kev]

Blump shartcracker for president

 

[Bishman]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/gops-new-plan-to-repeal-obamacare-dare-fellow-republicans-to-block-effort-1488154291

WASHINGTON—Republican leaders are betting that the only way for Congress to repeal the Affordable Care Act is to set a bill in motion and gamble that fellow GOP lawmakers won’t dare to block it.

Party leaders are poised to act on the strategy as early as this week, after it has become obvious they can’t craft a proposal that will carry an easy majority in either chamber. Lawmakers return to Washington Monday after a week of raucous town halls in their districts that amplified pressure on Republicans to forge ahead with their health-care plans.

Republican leaders pursuing the “now or never” approach see it as their best chance to break through irreconcilable demands by Republican centrists and conservatives over issues ranging from tax credits to the future of Medicaid.

The new strategy means the health-care law could be overhauled in three precarious steps—reflecting the difficulties of concurrently repealing and replacing the law, as President Donald Trump had sought.

Republicans can afford to lose no more than two GOP votes in the Senate and 22 in the House, assuming they get no support from Democrats. That means any GOP faction could torpedo the repeal effort by withholding its support—and members of each have threatened as much.

“You’re a Republican, you’ve been running to repeal Obamacare, they put a repeal bill in front of you... Are you going to be the Republican senator who prevents Obamacare repeal from being sent to a Republican president who is willing to sign it?” said Doug Badger, a longtime Republican leadership health policy adviser.


Mr. Trump, House Speaker Paul Ryan (R., Wis.) and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R., Ky.) are staking almost everything on this bet, because their entire domestic policy agenda, including a highly prized tax overhaul, rests on the health-care maneuver paying off first.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/gops-new-plan-to-repeal-obamacare-dare-fellow-republicans-to-block-effort-1488154291

They are totally going to lose everything from this asinine fight.

 

[Y2Kev]

Nah it'll pass and poor people won't vote again and life will be shitty forever.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

Fuckloads of infrastructure spending. They'll bring jerbs and restart the manufacturing sector, because guess what? All supplied by America! By Americans, for Americans! Yee-haw.

Oh, but congress will never go for-SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY.jif

Assuming the GOP passes on an infra bill in favor of tax reform this should be a slam dunk. It shows voters that Trump was never serious about their needs. The fact that our infrastructure is terrible and becoming a real public health threat helps too.

The other areas I'd focus on are based on how people have responded to Trump so far:

Public education: This is an area where Dems have struggled to get voter attention for years. 'Fortunately' we now have the worst possible person in charge of public education and the middle class is terrified. We should propose broad legislation to increase funding and accountability nationwide for public and charter schools. Also reforms to make college more affordable and ease student loan debt.

Health care: People are seeing that GOP promises to offer an improvement to the ACA are garbage so this opens up space to really 'repair' it with the public option and other reforms to address gaps in the original plan.

 

[Y2Kev]

Dems: we should build green jobs and windfa

Republicans: DRILL MOFUCKA

*everyone goes to republicans*

 

[AntraxSuicide]

Not the time for that. Once the uk's economy is in full crash and burn? Sure. Until then? Nah.
(mind you, since corbo has gone beyond the call of duty to show that he cant communicate for shit, he's not ideal for that either)

Honestly, this is no different than voting for Iraq in 2003 and then flipping later, which both of you would say was a massive weakness for Hillary.

We know Brexit is shit and it'll be a disaster for the UK. Why back it now and then hope people don't call you out on your two-faced position in the future when it does blow up? There's a real market (or will be) for people who stand up for the Remain camp.


Which is why here in the States, we've got Harris and Gillibrand types making a point of being staunch anti-Trump politicians. They know he's a train wreck so they're positioning right near the crash site with pre-written "I told you so" speeches.

 

[tuxfool]

He's a Local Pillar in a Trump Town. Now He Could Be Deported.

Some of these people. "Sure my friend is getting deported for no good reason, but I'll still vote Trump".

 

[FyreWulff]

every time the dems push infra bills, it's rode into the ground by pubs as "make work"

every time republicans push for it, it's of course, real jobs for real people

 

[Deleted member 231381]

You could have opposed Iraq without destroying the Democratic party. I mean, you'd do very badly, but ultimately it wasn't the only issue of the day, and people who disagreed would still often have voted with you. You do not understand British politics if you do not realise Brexit is the only game in town. The NHS and social care system (my current job) is collapsing in real time. Nary a peep. Nobody has the time for it. Becoming the party of Remain in the sense of: arguing Brexit should not happen; would destroy Labour. We're talking something like holding barely more than 120 seats, possibly less. That's the equivalent of the Democrats having about 16 Senators, or about 70 House Representatives.

You can probably get away with Soft Brexit, which is what Labour is currently trying to do (not helped by a complete lack of competence).

 

[metalslimer]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/gops-new-plan-to-repeal-obamacare-dare-fellow-republicans-to-block-effort-1488154291

Lmao, no senator in a swing state is voting for this

 

[Wilsongt]

Lmao, no senator in a swing state is voting for this

Republicans fall in line, remember? Party over the lives of sick people as they lie dying at home because they can't afford to go to the hospital or get medicine.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Republicans fall in line, remember? Party over the lives of sick people as they lie dying at home because they can't afford to go to the hospital or get medicine.

I'm not really sure anymore. The town halls likely caused them at least some bit of fear that they'll lose their jobs. Random people who never cared about politics before were there arguing with them about not repealing Obamacare. And the response was that they were paid off by the Democrats, which likely just infuriated them more.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

Dems: we should build green jobs and windfa

Republicans: DRILL MOFUCKA

*everyone goes to republicans*

Yeah, for all the talk that Democrats should try not to be nerds (which I agree with) this is a hard issue, because the former position always sounds nerdy compared to the latter

But that's because science is politicized by the right.

 

[Nelo Ice]

He’s a Local Pillar in a Trump Town. Now He Could Be Deported.

Some of these people. "Sure my friend is getting deported for no good reason, but I'll still vote Trump".

Lol that care by case basis quote. Its ok to deport brown people but now he's pissed his friend will be deported.

 

[thehypocrite]

You seem to think there's a cogent argument or messaging presentable to prevent the Labour party or the Democrats from "losing voters that were once enormously important components of the party's support", maybe there is (I doubt it to be honest) but I'm not sure there's one which keeps the current support intact at the same time.

Perhaps it's simply a case of picking your poison. Given the increasing effect of technology in the workplace it's only going to get worse.

That answer is going to win so much votes. Bigly!!

 

[chadskin]

$54bn increase in defense spending but Hillary is the warmongerer.

And he just said "We have to start winning wars again." Fantastic.

 

[thehypocrite]

Yeah, for all the talk that Democrats should try not to be nerds (which I agree with) this is a hard issue, because the former position always sounds nerdy compared to the latter

But that's because science is politicized by the right.

Is only nerdy cause you have a messenger problem.

 

[A Serious Man]

"Nobody knew healthcare could be so complicated."

- Donald "I'm a smart guy" Trump

 

[Owzers]

"Nobody knew healthcare could be so complicated."

- Donald "I'm a smart guy" Trump

Luckily I can't think less of him, but every time he talks...

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

Is only nerdy cause you have a messenger problem.

Yeah, OK

Nothing to do with the fact that science (aka nerds) and liberal policies are connected in the U.S. Or that renewable energy actually requires explanation to people whereas coal/gas/etc don't.

Clearly just a messenger problem.

 

[Wag]

Ahahaha. I'm watching his monthly "business" meeting. What a joke. I swear Trump lives in an alternate universe.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

Is only nerdy cause you have a messenger problem.

This stuff is complicated. Trying to make it simple just gives you faux scientists like Nye and NDT.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

This stuff is complicated. Trying to make it simple just gives you faux scientists like Nye and NDT.

About that...

 

[Coriolanus]

Honestly, this is no different than voting for Iraq in 2003 and then flipping later, which both of you would say was a massive weakness for Hillary.

We know Brexit is shit and it'll be a disaster for the UK. Why back it now and then hope people don't call you out on your two-faced position in the future when it does blow up? There's a real market (or will be) for people who stand up for the Remain camp.

Well, yes. And both of us would most likely agree that Corbo shouldn't be in the ballot by the time the election comes up. Is the function of a meatshield and all.

You don't run the two-faced candidate, is wot im saying. Every tool has a job. Corbo facetanks that conumdrum, and whoever he/the party grooms plays the other side. Ideally. Yknow, that magical young candidate fulla charisma and not a whole lot of baggage.

 

[Rebel Leader]

$54bn increase in defense spending but Hillary is the warmongerer.

And he just said "We have to start winning wars again." Fantastic.

Raise spending
Cut taxes


Does not compute

 

[nature boy]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/gops-new-plan-to-repeal-obamacare-dare-fellow-republicans-to-block-effort-1488154291

Red state Ds will bend over.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

Red state Ds will bend over.

Nope, this is a free vote for Dems. If this passes the senate it will be with 50 Republicans and then Pence breaking the tie.

 

[metalslimer]

Red state Ds will bend over.

Lol obamacare cost democrats their supermajority. It's much easier to defend not voting get for something than voting for something. A vote for this writes the attack ad. There is a reason the GOP is terrified right now

Also can this plan really pass through reconciliation?

 

[Blader]

But the fact of the matter is that Perez is a strong progressive chairman. If Bernie had not endorsed Ellison, I'm betting some people would have thrown their support behind Perez!

fwiw, Warren was in favor Perez as Hillary's running mate back when that shortlist was being culled (and, I assume, after herself on that same list).

https://twitter.com/davidfrum/status/836183196249251841

New twist--Spicer himself is the one who arranged for CIA head, Nunez, and Burr to deny the Trump/Russia leaks.

lol. How in the world does Spicer think he has the authority or clout to do that? You're just a mouthpiece, man!

https://www.wsj.com/articles/gops-new-plan-to-repeal-obamacare-dare-fellow-republicans-to-block-effort-1488154291

They should have tried this two weeks ago, before their constituents were publicly blowing up at them.

 

[Plumbob]

Raise spending
Cut taxes


Does not compute

Sounds like a stimulus for an economy near full employment. Hmm wonder what could go wrong 🤔

 

[NYCmetsfan]

This stuff is complicated. Trying to make it simple just gives you faux scientists like Nye and NDT.

lol what?

Nye runs the Planetary Society

And NDT is the head of the Hayden Planetarium

 

[nature boy]

Nope, this is a free vote for Dems. If this passes the senate it will be with 50 Republicans and then Pence breaking the tie.

Lol obamacare cost democrats their supermajority. It's much easier to defend not voting get for something than voting for something. A vote for this writes the attack ad. There is a reason the GOP is terrified right now

Also can this plan really pass through reconciliation?

I can see the Orange Dickhead bullying those Senators into submission. I'm not confident voters won't buy into the propaganda.

Plus if no Rs defect that allows them to save face.

This is all assuming they'll try to repeal and replace

 

[Sibylus]

lol what?

Nye runs the Planetary Society

And NDT is the head of the Hayden Planetarium

Exposure to television induces decay of real scientists into faux scientists. Einstein told us that.

 

[Cesare Borgia]

https://twitter.com/davidfrum/status/836183196249251841

New twist--Spicer himself is the one who arranged for CIA head, Nunez, and Burr to deny the Trump/Russia leaks.

It blows my mind how much disregard Trump has for the people who work for him. The headline is about Spicer obviously but we all know Trump demanded he do this. And now Spicer is probably out of a job soon.

The other amazing thing is the inability to think ahead. He compromised his CIA director and the House Intelligence Committee Chairman. Neither will be able to credibly lead any type of investigation on the Russian connections now. Having one person make a Loretta Lynch type fuck up is one thing...but having three (including Sessions)? Jeez.

 

[smokeymicpot]

Just like that every hope is gone.

https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/836249701666160640

House GOP intel chair says no evidence either Trump or Clinton campaign contacted Russian govt last year: "we can't just go on witch hunt"

House GOP Intel chief Nunes on reports of Trump/Russia contacts: "I've been told by many folks there's nothing there"

https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/836250156349677568

 

[LostMyNarbles]

It blows my mind how much disregard Trump has for the people who work for him. The headline is about Spicer obviously but we all know Trump demanded he do this. And now Spicer is probably out of a job soon.

The other amazing thing is the inability to think ahead. He compromised his CIA director and the House Intelligence Committee Chairman. Neither will be able to credibly lead any type of investigation on the Russian connections now. Having one person make a Loretta Lynch type fuck up is one thing...but having three (including Sessions)? Jeez.

To be fair haven't there been rumors about Trump not liking Spicer? This would be a good way of firing him for incompetence instead of just saying it is because he doesn't like him.

 

[A Serious Man]

Just like that every hope is gone.

https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/836249701666160640

House GOP intel chair says no evidence either Trump or Clinton campaign contacted Russian govt last year: "we can't just go on witch hunt"

House GOP Intel chief Nunes on reports of Trump/Russia contacts: "I've been told by many folks there's nothing there"

https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/836250156349677568

Ugh.

 

[Blader]

Nunes was a major player in the transition and was tight with Flynn. Nobody should rely on him as any kind of credible source on this.

It blows my mind how much disregard Trump has for the people who work for him. The headline is about Spicer obviously but we all know Trump demanded he do this. And now Spicer is probably out of a job soon.

The other amazing thing is the inability to think ahead. He compromised his CIA director and the House Intelligence Committee Chairman. Neither will be able to credibly lead any type of investigation on the Russian connections now. Having one person make a Loretta Lynch type fuck up is one thing...but having three (including Sessions)? Jeez.

Bill Kristol was on Axelrod's podcast a few days ago and made a great point similar to this: Trump has not internalized yet that he is the President of the United States. Rather than complaining on Twitter about leaks from the FBI, CIA, et al., he doesn't even think to meet with Comey and Pompeo and get them to crackdown. Instead, his first response is to hire another outside billionaire to investigate the entire intelligence community while he castigates thousands of civil and foreign services employees publicly as being akin to Nazi Germany.

In the long run, it's probably a good thing Trump doesn't really understand the depth of his power (yet), but still.

 

[kess]

lol what?

Nye runs the Planetary Society

And NDT is the head of the Hayden Planetarium

God forbid, Sanders is actually getting ahead of the rest of the party and holding a forum with popular scientists.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

Just like that every hope is gone.

https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/836249701666160640

House GOP intel chair says no evidence either Trump or Clinton campaign contacted Russian govt last year: "we can't just go on witch hunt"

House GOP Intel chief Nunes on reports of Trump/Russia contacts: "I've been told by many folks there's nothing there"

https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/836250156349677568

Its been clear for weeks that any meaningful investigation will come from the Senate not the House. This doesn't really change anything.

 

[nintendoman58]

Just like that every hope is gone.

https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/836249701666160640

House GOP intel chair says no evidence either Trump or Clinton campaign contacted Russian govt last year: "we can't just go on witch hunt"

House GOP Intel chief Nunes on reports of Trump/Russia contacts: "I've been told by many folks there's nothing there"

https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/836250156349677568

Do these guys have anything to do with the IC? I imagine they'd still continue it.

 

[Cesare Borgia]

Bill Kristol was on Axelrod's podcast a few days ago and made a great point similar to this: Trump has not internalized yet that he is the President of the United States. Rather than complaining on Twitter about leaks from the FBI, CIA, et al., he doesn't even think to meet with Comey and Pompeo and get them to crackdown. Instead, his first response is to hire another outside billionaire to investigate the entire intelligence community while he castigates thousands of civil and foreign services employees publicly as being akin to Nazi Germany.

In the long run, it's probably a good thing Trump doesn't really understand the depth of his power (yet), but still.

Yup. It's a glaring flaw. I've never been on the impeachment bandwagon BUT...if you get this guy in court under oath he WILL commit perjury. Everything about his personality demands he lie, repeatedly.

 

[sc0la]

Sounds like a stimulus for an economy near full employment. Hmm wonder what could go wrong 🤔

Naw they'll just cut social spending and cut "wasteful" rounding errors out of the federal budget. (Arts, public broadcasting, science)

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

I think the cross over in those two is very significant to be fair, so eliminating one doesn't save the others (it's guns, God and country after all). I also think that even if the democrats do drop gun control, it won't matter - the single issue voters don't trust them on it, and have become so embedded in that cultur and rhetoric they won't ever shift.

I mean, the proposals the democrats put forward after the shootings under Obama have massive cross party support, and yet all failed in congress due to opposition from the right and the NRA, and they didn't pay a penalty for that at all.

A lot of the old constituent bases in the working class are much more pro gun than the city voters, it's why I think Murphy would be a bad 2020 candidate even though he's young and reasonably progressive.