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PoliGAF 2017 |OT5| The Man In the High Chair
- Thread starter aspiegamer
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You don't have to be faster than the death squad, just faster than grandpa.
Eh, they're creating jobs
JesseEwiak
Member
Look like we're getting Establishment vs. Socialist here in Seattle for the Mayor-ship.
BoboBrazil
Member
Guess which us president still hasn't signed off on Russian sanctions bill?
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
I feel like everyone around the WH saying Trump will sign it is trying to push him to sign it lol
Spoiled Milk
Banned
Russian sanctions bill hurts EU allies (they're hypocrites, I know) and has caused complete disintegration of Russian relations (which were never good but it's getting worse). Should we really pass them?
BoboBrazil
Member
Yes, until Trump is out of office.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
It's either that or just let Russians continue to go unpunished. But hey, nobody here gives a shit about that, right?
I honestly don't know what the hell the EU expects the US to do. Shrug our shoulders and act like nothing happened? Because that's basically the alternative to sanctions.That would give Russia the go-ahead to just do it all over again if they know they won't be punished in any real way.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
According to the people on NeoGAF that answer is yes.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
We already sanctioned them over the elections. I don't get it, are we supposed to keep adding more sanctions until we can get an erection again? It's gone, Johnny, it'll never go up again.
Beer Monkey
Member
Russia wants to destroy NATO and fuck their shit up so they need to take the long view and get over the short term.
This bill prevents Trump from lifting the existing Russian sanctions, which currently he can just do whenever he wants.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
Considering we have a WH that is trying to get rid of those sanctions in first place - I would say yes.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
Yes, I agree, but it also imposes new sanctions, to the best of my knowledge. As I recall, the EU didn't have problems with the last round of sanctions, only this one. I'm just not sure why whatever Obama did wasn't a satisfactory response.
What's the over under on him doing that before he signs the bill or it goes back to congress for an over ride?
The Chosen One
Member
Came in here to say the same thing. According to Pence, it's 'very soon'.
How long can a President sit on a bill legally speaking? Can he just sit on it indefinitely?
10 (possibly business) days IIRC. I suspect likely going to wimp out and let it go into law without his signature.
TheLaughingStock
Member
Erdogan?
The Chosen One
Member
Ah okay, so it can go into law without his signature?
I try to avoid reading or listening to the actual words trump says for my own mental health (it's easier to just read the dumb shit he does secondhand in the form of news), idk why I clicked on that WSJ interview transcript thread in OT.
"Even though everyone says Iran is complying with the nuclear deal, I'm going to say they aren't LOL. Btw, Obama is a doodoo head lol"
Ugh my blood is boiling now. I haaaaate him. My cat would be a better president.
"Even though everyone says Iran is complying with the nuclear deal, I'm going to say they aren't LOL. Btw, Obama is a doodoo head lol"
Ugh my blood is boiling now. I haaaaate him. My cat would be a better president.
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
The President has 10 days (excluding Sundays) to sign or veto the bill. After these ten days the bill becomes law if Congress is in session or gets pocket vetoed if they are not in session. However pocket vetos rarely happen anymore since Congress always designates someone to "grab" the bill after the ten days (just like how they remain "in session" to avoid recess appointments). The one exception being the time Bush tried to pocket veto an appropriations bill. But generally Presidents don't want to challenge pocket vetoes in court and lose the ability forever.
So I guess expect Trump to nonsensically claim he pocket vetoed the bill on Aug 9th even though that's not a thing
Prof. Bathtub
Member
The point being that the Republican electorate and establishment agree that they would rather have no government at all than one with a Democrat even touching it. Same goes for their superpower status, considering the generals are all very civil about being nearby to prevent catastrophic orders by an individual they all know is an unqualified criminal.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
The EU expects the United States not to be fucking moronic. The EU is not anti-sanction. The EU has helped co-ordinate several previous rounds of sanctions. The objection is not to sanctions in general, it's to the sanctions on Russian oil and gas specifically, since the EU is still dependent on it. And when I say still dependent, I mean: people will die as a result of these sanctions when the cost of fuel spikes in Eastern European countries that have very little alternative; you're going to see a significant rise in winter deaths. It's little wonder the EU is telling the US to kindly go fuck itself, since there are alternative measures the US could have made that the EU would have been supportive of.
But instead, the Democrats have displayed all the tact of a priapic rhinoceros and shat all over their ally. Meanwhile, Putin is loving it since the divisions between the EU and the US will make future co-operation between the two over Russia harder. It's an enormous own goal.
SJurgenson
Banned
Would you happen to have any data or facts to back up such a ridiculous claim?
???
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
https://ec.europa.eu/energy/intelli...ean_fuel_poverty_and_energy_efficiency_en.pdf
although it doesn't take a genius to work out that winter mortality is related to heating prices, and a steep and unavoidable spark in heating prices means deaths.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
The Republicans as well, but we sort of expect them to be bone-headed. It's another thing altogether when it comes from a party that Europe sees as something they can work with.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Lol @ "the Democrats"
You sure love talking down to everybody from your high perch overseas don't you?
No matter, more and more posters here don't take you seriously anymore.
What is Europe doing to stop depending on the Russian gas teat?
You sure love talking down to everybody from your high perch overseas don't you?
No matter, more and more posters here don't take you seriously anymore.
What is Europe doing to stop depending on the Russian gas teat?
SJurgenson
Banned
That document does not back up your claims.
The word 'Russia' is not in there at all.
A white paper on the concept of 'fuel poverty' is not evidence that the law would increase European fuel prices, or that any increaes would cause additional winter-related deaths.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
What are you doing to stop buying groceries in the city you live in
Prophaniti
Banned
The extent of the hacking wasn't clear before. It was the initial response while waiting for more information. The plan was always to hit them harder. We just needed to know how hard.
Serious question: where is Europe supposed to get its oil and gas from if not Russia?
Only Norway (and the very last remnants of British oilfields) can produce its own. If not Russia, who should Europe buy from? The oil states in the Gulf? You're just swapping out funding Russia for funding terrorism and repressive ideology, which isn't really an improvement.
Only Norway (and the very last remnants of British oilfields) can produce its own. If not Russia, who should Europe buy from? The oil states in the Gulf? You're just swapping out funding Russia for funding terrorism and repressive ideology, which isn't really an improvement.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
Ok, I'm looking up this EU stuff and j learned the president's name is "Juncker". LOL. never change, Europe.
I am glad for laughing stock's post but we definitely did know the extent by January.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Poland built an LNG terminal, Western European countries reformed their energy markets to make it easier to sell energy from more-dependent to less-dependent countries to more dependent ones and often effectively sell fuel at slightly below market price, the three Baltic countries are planning LNG terminals, the EU Parliament regularly passes energy efficiency measures to reduce fuel consumption requirements, and the EU is investing heavily in renewable energy (much more heavily than the United States). They were trying to build up Hungary as a domestic producer, but that's obviously complicated by Hungary's political situation. There's also the Trans-Adriatic pipeline taking in gas from Azerbaijan, but that reduces dependency on Russia to increase it on Turkey, so YMMV.
Of course, you knew absoutely none of this, and this whole thread knew absolutely none of this, and yet you're perfectly content to sit and talk big words on the internet about sanctions you don't really understand in a geopolitical situation you don't really understand because it makes you feel like a big, tough, hard guy. That's not how this works.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
It does clearly state that winter mortality in the EU is directly related to fuel prices.
If this law did not increase European prices for Russian gas, then Europe would not alter the amount of Russian gas it buys, meaning this would not be a very good sanction. The whole point of a sanction is that it increases the prices for that good; I just assumed you could work that out yourself instead of needing me to explain: hey, fuel sanctions increase fuel prices! I mean, what on earth did you think they did?
Beer Monkey
Member
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I didn't expect them to stop it. I expected them to vote against, if only symbolically, to indicate that when they retake the White House (which I hope they do), Europe has a firm and reliable partner in the efforts to reduce Russian influence. Instead, the Democrats are signalling to the EU that they can't be relied upon any more than the Republicans. We're literally at the point where the EU is considering trade retaliation and initiating a trade war; I don't think you realise the extent to which this has infuriated the United States' closest geopolitical ally.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
Isn't this off the table now?
Beer Monkey
Member
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Not unless something has changed since the end of Monday I'm unaware of it, and even then, this is a severe enough issue for US-EU relations that I think it would be difficult to take anything off the table definitively - there's every chance it could become a hot-button political issue domestically.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Translated: we are going to put in place sanctions for which we have no clear objective and no reasonable explanation for why they'll cause Russia to change behaviour or strategy all in order to make ourselves feel better about the fact our election infrastructure is insecure and woefully out-of-date in a manner that seriously harms our closest ally and will lead to the deaths of their citizens and the slowing of their economy when they're already internally unstable.
The thing about war is that you need allies.
Yeah LNG is becoming really important in the Baltic and Scandinavia. Lots of major ports have them. Plus EU in general has one of the largest renewable investments in the world, lots of solar.
Europe is looking in a long term non-dependance of Russia, but you cannot build tons of new energy infrastructure in a moment, so the short-term is as crab said "not to kill poor people in winter".
Edit: as crab said, other sanction would be mostly aok with europe (except germany cause Deutsche Bank loves him his Russian money), but energy ones are really bad, unless usa starts selling us petrol at a loss to compensate.
Europe is looking in a long term non-dependance of Russia, but you cannot build tons of new energy infrastructure in a moment, so the short-term is as crab said "not to kill poor people in winter".
Edit: as crab said, other sanction would be mostly aok with europe (except germany cause Deutsche Bank loves him his Russian money), but energy ones are really bad, unless usa starts selling us petrol at a loss to compensate.
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