These things don't break through, we've had a bunch of these town halls and no one cares.
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PoliGAF 2017 |OT6| Made this thread during Harvey because the ratings would be higher
- Thread starter Aaron Strife
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These things don't break through, we've had a bunch of these town halls and no one cares.
the debate is only a net positive for lindsey.
get beat up by mean democrats
get beat up by mean socialists
or they beat them.
they will play the victim or victor card in the debate, it shouldnt be had, specifically because they are voting on that bill a few days later.
imho
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I'd be for the debate if there was no bill up for vote so soon, if it were a debate about healthcare with no bill looming I'd be for it.
Admittedly, the main thing I'm worried about is it flipping McCain. The public opinion doesn't particularly matter at this point.
balladofwindfishes
Member
A televised debate between four people isn't the "normal order" for how stuff is passedAdmittedly, the main thing I'm worried about is it flipping McCain. The public opinion doesn't particularly matter at this point.
He's already said the stupid conference they're having Monday doesn't count, there's no reason this silly debate will change his mind
He wants a bill passed the "right" way
These things don't break through, we've had a bunch of these town halls and no one cares.
I still haven't made up my mind if this debate is a good thing or not but I feel if the defense is "don't worry it doesn't matter" I'm not going to feel reassured? Is there anyway this debate goes in a way that sticks a fork in the G-C bill? It feels like the most likely outcomes are "needle doesn't move" or "G-C gains momentum" rather then "G-C is killed on the spot".
A televised debate between four people isn't the "normal order" for how stuff is passed
He's already said the stupid conference they're having Monday doesn't count, there's no reason this silly debate will change his mind
He wants a bill passed the "right" way
While I'm sure McCain does want a restoration of natural order, I do wonder if he kinda uses it as a front for just flat-out being against the bill in contents as well.
Sanders not being a team player? SHOCK! SURPRISE!
This debate is a bad idea. OF COURSE it is.
Bernie ruins everything and he really needs to go away
This is going to give the GOP another excuse to justify passing the bill. If they pass it. See, we had a debate like Bernie wanted!! Single payer bad! Grahamcare good! Meanwhile theres only one bill that might pass and its not single payer. STUPID
VendettaRed07
Member
I like that Klobuchar is going to be there. Interested to see her in action
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
In a vacuum I actually dont mind these televised debates as a way for politicians to answer questions with both sides.
At the same Im not very high on Bernies ability to prepare and debate with a goal in mind.
At the same Im not very high on Bernies ability to prepare and debate with a goal in mind.
Fenderputty
Banned
These things don't break through, we've had a bunch of these town halls and no one cares.
A townhall isn't 4 politicians debating healthcare on a national stage. So forgive me if I don't find this comforting at all.
Not sure Bernie is wrong here. It will be an opportunity to confront Cassidy-Graham on the merits of their bill. If I was Bernie or Kloubchar Id memorize the most dangerous portions of the bill and have Cassidy-Graham try to defend it live on TV. Its way easier when the people posing the questions to you are from Fox News.
....????These things don't break through, we've had a bunch of these town halls and no one cares.
If any of this had anything to do with general public opinion, LinseyCare wouldn't be a thing to begin with! The very idea of repealing Obamacare right now would have been long buried.
This debate will play with the politicos who are exactly who are pushing this bill through.
....????
If any of this had anything to do with generL public opinion, LinseyCare wouldn't be a thing to begin witg! The very idea of repealing Obamacare right now would have been long buried.
This debate will play with the politicos who are exactly who are pushing this bill through.
I just don't understand the concern here, I fundamentally think it comes from a mistrust (read: dislike) of Bernie.
Yes, he's bad at this. But so is Cassidy and so is Graham. And they don't have the numbers or data on their side. And Klobuchar is a savage.
Relax.
edit: I also don't understand why ya'll are blaming Bernie for this, as if Amy isn't also participating???
It's a moderated CNN debate, so it won't be up to Bernie or Kobluchar whether the Bernie bill from last week is brought up, it certainly will be brought up by the moderator if not Graham and Cassidy.
Technically isn't it a town hall? Will the participants even be able to ask each other questions?
eBay Huckster
Member
amy would've won
I just don't understand the concern here, I fundamentally think it comes from a mistrust (read: dislike) of Bernie.
Yes, he's bad at this. But so is Cassidy and so is Graham. And they don't have the numbers or data on their side. And Klobuchar is a savage.
Relax.
edit: I also don't understand why ya'll are blaming Bernie for this, as if Amy isn't also participating???
Yes, I hate Bernie Sanders. I mean, duh. Not ashamed of that.
But I can think this debate is a stupid idea independent of my dislike of Bernie. Especially since Klobuchar, who I do like, is also involved.
It's telling that the best thing most people can hope for is that this doesn't move the needle.
I'm ok with anything that sheds more of a public spotlight on the Graham-Cassidy bill.
And to echo an earlier post: if we're afraid about the optics and the potential needle-pushing in the opposite direction that comes with Democrats attaching Republican healthcare proposals while also defending Medicare for All, then maybe we shouldn't be pushing Medicare for All in the first place.
And to echo an earlier post: if we're afraid about the optics and the potential needle-pushing in the opposite direction that comes with Democrats attaching Republican healthcare proposals while also defending Medicare for All, then maybe we shouldn't be pushing Medicare for All in the first place.
Yes, I hate Bernie Sanders. I mean, duh. Not ashamed of that.
But I can think this debate is a stupid idea independent of my dislike of Bernie. Especially since Klobuchar, who I do like, is also involved.
It's telling that the best thing most people can hope for is that this doesn't move the needle.
I find hatred of Bernie to be just as bizarre as hatred of Hillary from the left, but whatever.
I'm not hoping that it won't move the needle, I simply fully expect that to be the outcome. Its been the outcome for every one of these CCN town halls, which aren't structured like debates. It will be fine.
Frank the Great
Banned
This debate is such a stupid idea. Dems have absolutely nothing to gain from this.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
i have a theory that if we found lindsey graham a girlfriend he'd vote for aca fixup or singlepayer
benicillin
Banned
This debate is such a stupid idea. Dems have absolutely nothing to gain from this.
What exactly do they have to gain from refusing a debate (that certainly doesnt look bad) and not getting this in front of as many eyes as possible?
Aaron Strife
Banned
Alabama went for Trump by a similar margin as Massachusetts to Obama 08, so this would be yet another parallel to the fight for ACA if Jones somehow pulled it off.If the GOP can pick up a (temporary) senate seat in Mass in 2010 on Dem backlash, I don't really think any race is entirely out of the picture.
I've never really considered 2018 completely unwinnable for the senate. I think there's a hidden seat or two that we can grab that nobody is paying attention to.
Midterms can get pretty wacky, especially if there's a big backlash against the president.
Obama wasn't even that unpopular in MA when Coakley lost. She was a terrible candidate and we've seen time and again that "gotta elect candidates who will support the president" is not a particularly good motivator for base turnout, Democrat or Republican.
Like I don't think Alabama is any better than Likely R at best, but not many people thought Brown would win three months out either. And if Moore is the nominee, I'm guessing national donors go in big.
I just don't understand the concern here, I fundamentally think it comes from a mistrust (read: dislike) of Bernie.
I mean, one of the things I've always disliked about Bernie is the fact that he sucks at debates and has never tried to get better. The most frustrating thing about the primary debates was watching him miss practically every opening Hillary gave him (and there were a lot of opportunities he missed to come up with good counters). He couldn't even hold his own against Ted Cruz.
Yes, he's bad at this. But so is Cassidy and so is Graham. And they don't have the numbers or data on their side. And Klobuchar is a savage.
Relax.
I don't know much about Cassidy, but Graham is pretty quick-witted. He'll make a fool out of Bernie. Elizabeth Warren (or almost anyone else, maybe besides Tim Kaine) would have been a better choice.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
what if what he wants is a boyfriend thoi have a theory that if we found lindsey graham a girlfriend he'd vote for aca fixup or singlepayer
Alabama went for Trump by a similar margin as Massachusetts to Obama 08, so this would be yet another parallel to the fight for ACA if Jones somehow pulled it off.
Obama wasn't even that unpopular in MA when Coakley lost. She was a terrible candidate and we've seen time and again that "gotta elect candidates who will support the president" is not a particularly good motivator for base turnout, Democrat or Republican.
Like I don't think Alabama is any better than Likely R at best, but not many people thought Brown would win three months out either. And if Moore is the nominee, I'm guessing national donors go in big.
AL is way more racially polarizing than MA. Atleast with MA you had the recent history of R's winning + more independents willing to vote for the opposite party. AL has none of that.
Frank the Great
Banned
What exactly do they have to gain from refusing a debate (that certainly doesnt look bad) and not getting this in front of as many eyes as possible?
The bill is garbage and already super unpopular. This only gives G&C a chance to rehabilitate it.
Also, Republicans only win minds on healthcare when bashing socialist medicine. This gives them the perfect opportunity to do that.
It's just so stupid.
benicillin
Banned
The bill is garbage and already super unpopular. This only gives G&C a chance to rehabilitate it.
Also, Republicans only win minds on healthcare when bashing socialist medicine. This gives them the perfect opportunity to do that.
It's just so stupid.
Youre right, Dems should just pretend the bill doesnt exist and not argue against it. Especially all of our presidential hopefuls, who are all blood oathed to a dirty socialist healthcare bill because Republicans might pivot to that.
Can't he just grow his own beard?i have a theory that if we found lindsey graham a girlfriend he'd vote for aca fixup or singlepayer
Aaron Strife
Banned
Sure. It's hardly an exact comparison. Like I said, I'm hardly expecting a Jones victory, but given everything that's at stake, we need to be fighting hard for every seat.Alabama is way more racially polarizing than MA. Atleast with MA you had the recent history of R's winning + more independents willing to vote for the opposite party. AL has none of that.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
I don't even know what this means!Can't he just grow his own beard?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beard_(companion)I don't even know what this means!
Spoiled Milk
Banned
Goddamn you guys are savage.
Sure. It's hardly an exact comparison. Like I said, I'm hardly expecting a Jones victory, but given everything that's at stake, we need to be fighting hard for every seat.
sure. I just think that in a world where Moore were to lose it would be because he was too extreme even for a state like AL and I don't believe we are there at this point in time sadly.
They should contest though if Moore wins of course.
Fenderputty
Banned
What exactly do they have to gain from refusing a debate (that certainly doesnt look bad) and not getting this in front of as many eyes as possible?
If the debate focuses on anything but the GC bill in comparison to the ACA, it's risky with a high chance of net loss. It's the timing more than anything here.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Youre right, Dems should just pretend the bill doesnt exist and not argue against it. Especially all of our presidential hopefuls, who are all blood oathed to a dirty socialist healthcare bill because Republicans might pivot to that.
The idea that you need a town hall to "argue against it" is ludicrous. They are already out there arguing against it. This is a trap to give the bill legitimate time and a major chance for Graham and Cassidy to mislead hundreds of thousands of viewers.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
To Republicans, all healthcare plans are socialist medicine. You take the average American voter and ask them to explain the difference between the Affordable Care Act and Sander's draft bill and they'll stare at you blankly. Only a small fraction of people could explain the difference and the outcomes. Most people just inherit their opinion of policies from a few key example-setters, who form prominent representatives of their in-group. Insofar as that literally every Democratic bill is socialist to the Republicans, there's therefore no real difference in their receptions. You could argue for the Affordable Care Act, Sander's draft bill, free ponies for everyone, ponies as a form of reparations only - doesn't matter.
All the debate will do is draw the attention of people to the issue - make them aware of it as a hot topic issue. All the Democrats will be more convinced of what the Democratic plan is and all the Republicans will be more convinced of what the Republican plan is, by and large. That's good for the Democrats, since there are more of them.
This thread is really bad at politics.
All the debate will do is draw the attention of people to the issue - make them aware of it as a hot topic issue. All the Democrats will be more convinced of what the Democratic plan is and all the Republicans will be more convinced of what the Republican plan is, by and large. That's good for the Democrats, since there are more of them.
This thread is really bad at politics.
BoboBrazil
Member
When even Kim Jong Un thinks your president is too damn crazy http://thehill.com/policy/internati...anged-says-he-will-pay-dearly-for-his-threats
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
what people really want are means-tested tax credits for pony ownershipTo Republicans, all healthcare plans are socialist medicine. You take the average American voter and ask them to explain the difference between the Affordable Care Act and Sander's draft bill and they'll stare at you blankly. Only a small fraction of people could explain the difference and the outcomes. Most people just inherit their opinion of policies from a few key example-setters, who form prominent representatives of their in-group. Insofar as that literally every Democratic bill is socialist to the Republicans, there's therefore no real difference in their receptions. You could argue for the Affordable Care Act, Sander's draft bill, free ponies for everyone, ponies as a form of reparations only - doesn't matter.
All the debate will do is draw the attention of people to the issue - make them aware of it as a hot topic issue. All the Democrats will be more convinced of what the Democratic plan is and all the Republicans will be more convinced of what the Republican plan is, by and large. That's good for the Democrats, since there are more of them.
This thread is really bad at politics.
shinra-bansho
Member
Where's Shillizabeth?
Make her debate.
Make her debate.
To Republicans, all healthcare plans are socialist medicine. You take the average American voter and ask them to explain the difference between the Affordable Care Act and Sander's draft bill and they'll stare at you blankly. Only a small fraction of people could explain the difference and the outcomes. Most people just inherit their opinion of policies from a few key example-setters, who form prominent representatives of their in-group. Insofar as that literally every Democratic bill is socialist to the Republicans, there's therefore no real difference in their receptions. You could argue for the Affordable Care Act, Sander's draft bill, free ponies for everyone, ponies as a form of reparations only - doesn't matter.
All the debate will do is draw the attention of people to the issue - make them aware of it as a hot topic issue. All the Democrats will be more convinced of what the Democratic plan is and all the Republicans will be more convinced of what the Republican plan is, by and large. That's good for the Democrats, since there are more of them.
This thread is really bad at politics.
I don't think a debate on CNN of all places will make people more aware that this is a hot topic issue. I mean...lol
Welcome to the thread.
Chained Prometheus
Member
The idea that you need a town hall to "argue against it" is ludicrous. They are already out there arguing against it. This is a trap to give the bill legitimate time and a major chance for Graham and Cassidy to mislead hundreds of thousands of viewers.
Yup. I like Bernie a bit more than most of PoliGAF, I think, but it seems clear as day to me that this is a trap and Bernie is falling for it hook, line and sinker.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
You guys seem to keep forgetting that Bernie Sanders still has very good favorability ratings. You're fine to argue that those would drop in a serious hard fought national general election, or when there's an actual threat of the costs of his policies becoming real, but that is clearly not the case right now in September 2017.
At this point in time, he's clearly doing something right, and at this point in time you want him out there debating republicans on health care. I can't believe you guys are worried about the most popular politician democrats currently have being in that debate.
At this point in time, he's clearly doing something right, and at this point in time you want him out there debating republicans on health care. I can't believe you guys are worried about the most popular politician democrats currently have being in that debate.
To Republicans, all healthcare plans are socialist medicine. You take the average American voter and ask them to explain the difference between the Affordable Care Act and Sander's draft bill and they'll stare at you blankly. Only a small fraction of people could explain the difference and the outcomes. Most people just inherit their opinion of policies from a few key example-setters, who form prominent representatives of their in-group. Insofar as that literally every Democratic bill is socialist to the Republicans, there's therefore no real difference in their receptions. You could argue for the Affordable Care Act, Sander's draft bill, free ponies for everyone, ponies as a form of reparations only - doesn't matter.
All the debate will do is draw the attention of people to the issue - make them aware of it as a hot topic issue. All the Democrats will be more convinced of what the Democratic plan is and all the Republicans will be more convinced of what the Republican plan is, by and large. That's good for the Democrats, since there are more of them.
This thread is really bad at politics.
My biggest concern is actually about how CNN chooses to frame the discussion. As we've seen in the last year, that can actually have a pretty big impact.
Must be a scary time to be a Rapture Ready christian. Earthquakes, hurricanes, nuclear war...
Must be nerve wracking.
Most old people I know are ready and eager for rapture to happen.
Chained Prometheus
Member
You guys seem to keep forgetting that Bernie Sanders still has very good favorability ratings. You're fine to argue that those would drop in a serious hard fought national general election, or when there's an actual threat of the costs of his policies becoming real, but that is clearly not the case right now in September 2017.
At this point in time, he's clearly doing something right, and at this point in time you want him out there debating republicans on health care. I can't believe you guys are worried about the most popular politician democrats currently have being in that debate.
On the contrary. Popularity has shit to do with it; this is a chance for Graham and Cassidy to go on the attack by using Bernie's ideas as a scapegoat and to use the debate as something to try and woo McCain over to vote for a Yes by arguing that the debate was a means of talking over the GC bill.
Frank the Great
Banned
You guys seem to keep forgetting that Bernie Sanders still has very good favorability ratings. You're fine to argue that those would drop in a serious hard fought national general election, or when there's an actual threat of the costs of his policies becoming real, but that is clearly not the case right now in September 2017.
At this point in time, he's clearly doing something right, and at this point in time you want him out there debating republicans on health care. I can't believe you guys are worried about the most popular politician democrats currently have being in that debate.
I'm not worried about who's doing the debate
I'm worried that there's a debate at all.
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