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PoliGAF 2017 |OT6| Made this thread during Harvey because the ratings would be higher

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So Bannon, after being "fired", just traveled to China and well.... https://www.ft.com/content/5cdedd84-9f0c-11e7-8cd4-932067fbf946

I wonder if there's some kind of "activation" going on here. No telling just who and what though until it gets out. So many crazy options...

For those of you concerned about Trump's approvals going up, look at the PPP poll. 16% of Democrats approve of Trump. Trump's down 38-59 among independents, which is what matters in elections.

Presumably some democrats like Trump after the DACA and Pelosi/Schumer deal. Probably will be shortlived.

Although this poll has 43-47 Trump vs Clinton and... 42% democrats to 33% republicans? Did some independents switch to the democrat party?

Those people are idiots then.

It is 100% unwinnable. Face reality. Invest in races that are actually plausible.

Somewhere in Vermont, Howard Dean feels the need to facepalm yet doesn't know why.
 
But here's the thing though

Republicans aren't against it.

Among Rs

ACA Approval: 24% (67% disapprove, 9% not sure)
Generic Repeal Approval: 64% (34% keep and fix)
Graham-Cassidy Approval: 47% (32% not sure, just 21% disapprove)
If member of congress voted for G-C: 23% less likely to support, 38% more likely, 28% no difference, 11% not sure

Republicans can absolutely get away with voting for this. Most of them have no chance of losing to a Democrat in 2018, only another, crazier Republican in a primary.

Don't think that is necessary true. I don't know the polling methodology , but if some Republicans are not identifying as Republican there's a chance that the Republicans that still identify as Republicans are more like to approve the bill. Relying on those Republicans, not the Republican-Independents is probably not enough. Plus opinion can change once voters are actually affected by the bill.
 
This seat hasn't had a Democrat since the late 90s

Brown's seat hadn't been Republican since the 40s

It's not like that seat is bound by a district. They had 2 long-serving Democratic senators, yes, but Republicans held seats in the 70s and the state has had a run of Republican governors since the 90s.

Alabama may have elected Democrats in the past, but those were the racist Dixiecrats. Republicans are now that party and good luck breaking that stranglehold.

Jones will lose by 15 or 20. Mark it, dude.
 
Don't think that is necessary true. I don't know the polling methodology , but if some Republicans are not identifying as Republican there's a chance that the Republicans that still identify as Republicans are more like to approve the bill. Relying on those Republicans, not the Republican-Independents is probably not enough. Plus opinion can change once voters are actually affected by the bill.

Self-identifying Republicans want this bill, and those are your primary voters. Go against this and you might lose your seat in the spring and never have a chance to lie to independents in the fall.
 
Self-identifying Republicans want this bill, and those are your primary voters. Go against this and you might lose your seat in the spring and never have a chance to lie to independents in the fall.

Primary voters still consist of Republicans that don't identify as Republicans, right? The issue is not the primary I believe. The issue is disengagement . The voters will less likely to vote because you took away their healthcare. An opponent in the general will easily take advantage of that and can take some of the non-identifying Republicans( but it will be low).

I don't really believe establishment Republicans will have a too much of a hard time if they don't get rid of ACA. Of course in the primary, candidates on the right will attack them for failing to repeal, but it will be of the many reasons and not the sole.
 

Teggy

Member
Jihye Lee 이지혜
Jihye Lee 이지혜 @TheJihyeLee
The Korean original statement said "늙다리 미치광이," which means old beast lunatic -- which was translated into "dotard."

.
 
This is completely the wrong approach. We should contest and invest a small amount in every single race. Money has diminishing returns and you can't win races you don't contest.

I mean spend money, it's not like there's any other race happening. If people donate for that race, do right by the people and spend it for that race. Just know that you're lighting that money on fire.
 
This is completely the wrong approach. We should contest and invest a small amount in every single race. Money has diminishing returns and you can't win races you don't contest.
Yeah I think giving every candidate (or local party or whatever) a token sum to even just get a barebones GOTV effort going is a worthy investment.

More relevant to Alabama we should invest there because it's the only game in town this year for the Senate races. What's the harm?
 

pigeon

Banned
I mean spend money, it's not like there's any other race happening. If people donate for that race, do right by the people and spend it for that race. Just know that you're lighting that money on fire.

That's what the money is for.

You are throwing money away much more rapidly when you're piling a million dollars on top of four million other dollars.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
This seat hasn't had a Democrat since the late 90s

Brown's seat hadn't been Republican since the 40s

Neither of those two things are quite relevant. Senators don't have "seats" to speak of (i.e. the distinction of which class a senator is in is not relevant) and MA had a Republican Senator consistently until whenever Paul Tsongas beat Edward Brooke, and the existence of the Solidly Democratic South has little bearing on the plausibility of electing Democrats today. At the time where Democrats won the South they had total capture of machine politics, conservatives routinely ran as Democrats to get access to the party machinery, in many cases there weren't even Republican candidates for house seats and in some cases not Senate seats. But voter self-sorting, the nationalizing of politics, inter-party polarization, etc. have all contributed to a very different structural reality today. The Democratic Party of Alabama has essentially no resources, whether economic or human. Even popular Democratic incumbents are losing their grip on power in the Southern and Appalachian states and it's unlikely the party will be able to do the investment required to rebuild. They also have no talent bench because of the extremely rapid Republican takeover of state houses and senates over the last 20 years. And the Demographic trend in Alabama is not favourable like it is in, say, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, or Texas.

The good news is that Democrats can easily have 60+ Senate seats without winning Alabama.

In a vacuum, we'd imagine that Colorado, Maine, Nevada, Ohio, and Wisconsin would be fairly easy for Democrats to win with decent candidates and national tailwinds, and after that Florida and maybe Pennsylvania if the entire state doesn't die of heroin overdoses. Pickens get pretty slim after that, even with increased investment in long-shot seats. And long-term the Democrats will lose West Virginia, it's just a matter of time.
 
Neither of those two things are quite relevant. Senators don't have "seats" to speak of (i.e. the distinction of which class a senator is in is not relevant) and MA had a Republican Senator consistently until whenever Paul Tsongas beat Edward Brooke, and the existence of the Solidly Democratic South has little bearing on the plausibility of electing Democrats today. At the time where Democrats won the South they had total capture of machine politics, conservatives routinely ran as Democrats to get access to the party machinery, in many cases there weren't even Republican candidates for house seats and in some cases not Senate seats. But voter self-sorting, the nationalizing of politics, inter-party polarization, etc. have all contributed to a very different structural reality today. The Democratic Party of Alabama has essentially no resources, whether economic or human. Even popular Democratic incumbents are losing their grip on power in the Southern and Appalachian states and it's unlikely the party will be able to do the investment required to rebuild. They also have no talent bench because of the extremely rapid Republican takeover of state houses and senates over the last 20 years. And the Demographic trend in Alabama is not favourable like it is in, say, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, or Texas.

The good news is that Democrats can easily have 60+ Senate seats without winning Alabama.

In a vacuum, we'd imagine that Colorado, Maine, Nevada, Ohio, and Wisconsin would be fairly easy for Democrats to win with decent candidates and national tailwinds, and after that Florida and maybe Pennsylvania if the entire state doesn't die of heroin overdoses. Pickens get pretty slim after that, even with increased investment in long-shot seats. And long-term the Democrats will lose West Virginia, it's just a matter of time.

Overall I agree, but in any given race, there's the potential for winning the lottery for your opponent and that can change the typical outcome. Louisiana has a Dem governor right now because Jindal sucked and JBE's opponent* had an oppo nuke dropped on him. Roy Moore could brand himself as a hardcore Southern Baptist to try to explain his rough demeanor, or he could go into the election as the guy that makes every Southern woman over 30 clutch their pearls. Statewide races aren't really worth abandoning in any state.

*And that opponent is the brother of the current Chancellor here at Ole Miss. Thanksgiving's got to be hella awkward.
 
Overall I agree, but in any given race, there's the potential for winning the lottery for your opponent and that can change the typical outcome. Louisiana has a Dem governor right now because Jindal sucked and JBE's opponent* had an oppo nuke dropped on him. Roy Moore could brand himself as a hardcore Southern Baptist to try to explain his rough demeanor, or he could go into the election as the guy that makes every Southern woman over 30 clutch their pearls. Statewide races aren't really worth abandoning in any state.

*And that opponent is the brother of the current Chancellor here at Ole Miss. Thanksgiving's got to be hella awkward.

I'm inclined to agree even though I expect Jones to lose. Dem Senators are raising a ton of $. It doesn't hurt to throw a few hundred thousand k from the DSCC on Jones's race in case the stars align.
 
I'm inclined to agree even though I expect Jones to lose. Dem Senators are raising a ton of $. It doesn't hurt to throw a few hundred thousand k from the DSCC on Jones's race in case the stars align.

For sure. I wouldn't bet on a Senate majority through Alabama, but you gotta be ready for "dead girl or live boy" situations.
 
The North Korea matter is going to drag on and get extremely tedious extremely quickly. NK has no reason to stand down from anything it's doing, but at the same time they're not going to attack anyone. The US is not going to attack NK. Thus there will be nothing but endless words back and forth. Forever. The longer it goes on the more likely Trump is to say progressively dumber and more embarrassing things, and the risk increases he'll make an incredibly dangerous decision of some sort. He's not fooling a single foreign policy expert on the planet when he says he has broad military options, because he doesn't beyond catastrophically deadly ones for South Korea.


........And Trump felt like swiping at Hillary for no reason, and decided to defend Russia's efforts on Facebook. But that crap is so marginal these days compared to the direct rhetoric about nuclear weapons. Good to know that his time at the UN matured him.

Edit: Nothing about Puerto Rico? It's not like every US island in the Caribbean was chucked back to the 1800s or anything. Something? Anything? That's a level of destruction the US has never had to deal with over anything other than a comparatively small area. But nah, they'll be fine. Not being a state is going to keep the crisis buried from the eyes of most Americans, unfortunately. But good news, he'll be part of a rally in Alabama tonight!
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Biden is going to be in AL stumping for Jones, which should be enough reason for the DSCC to make a small investment there.

Also, this Tom Price story is really heating up -- 24 charter flights, totaling $300k, in four months!
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/21/tom-price-private-charter-plane-flights-242989

And, under Graham-Cassidy, Price is going to be tasked with singlehandedly determining if each state is providing "adequate" healthcare insurance. What could go wrong?
 
Biden is exactly the kind of Dem that can help Jones. His folksy side should be well appreciated in Alabama.

Bernie/Biden 2020. A progressive and folksy ticket collectively old enough to have served in the Civil War.

BC6_BB5_E6-1_E7_A-476_F-8786-_A5_B29_D681_FBC.jpg

Is it getting hot in here?
 

Wilsongt

Member
So how close are we to LindseyCare?

Since Republicans are so apt and willing to use nicknames for everyhing: Obamacare, Berniecare, Rocket Man, Crocket, Lying, Crying, etc.

I wonder if something legal happens to Trump, if Daddy Putin will come to his rescue? He's so swift to denouce everything negative about Russia as being fake.
 

Mac_Lane

Member
In this video, it looks like Murkowski and McCain are discussing an awful lot.

I sure hope they're both sticking to their guns and ready to buck the turtle once more.

Edit: welp, the video is from 2 days ago. My bad.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
In this video, it looks like Murkowski and McCain are discussing an awful lot.

I sure hope they're both sticking to their guns and ready to buck the turtle once more.

Edit: welp, the video is from 2 days ago. My bad.

How are they smiling? What is the exact angle of each smile?
 

Blader

Member
Cilizza is genuinely dumb.

In this video, it looks like Murkowski and McCain are discussing an awful lot.

I sure hope they're both sticking to their guns and ready to buck the turtle once more.

Edit: welp, the video is from 2 days ago. My bad.

Sure is a lot of back patting that happens on the Senate floor.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
If Murkowski makes a heel turn and goes for these bribes, what would the vote count be?
 
If Murkowski makes a heel turn and goes for these bribes, what would the vote count be?
McCain's vote is still up in the air, Collins and Paul are still hard Nos. So I'm guessing 49 or 50, depending on what McCain ends up doing.

So shit, Dino Rossi is running in WA-8. While it's become of a bit of a running gag that he's a hyped up candidate who always loses, he's also a pretty formidable candidate and WA-8 is much more favorable to Republicans than the state at large. Hopefully our Democrat is ready to give it a real fight.
 

Zukkoyaki

Member
Brookings posted their own analysis of G-C and it's a doozy...

Based on this analysis, we estimate that the Graham-Cassidy legislation would reduce the number of people with insurance coverage by around 21 million each year during the 2020 through 2026 period.

This estimate likely understates the reductions in insurance coverage that would actually occur under the Graham-Cassidy legislation, particularly toward the beginning and end of the seven-year period, because it does not account for the challenges states will face in setting up new programs on the bill's proposed timeline, the possibility that uncertainty about the program's future will cause market turmoil toward the end of the seven-year period, or the bill's Medicaid per capita cap and other non-expansion-related Medicaid provisions.

Note that the "each year" part seems poorly written and they actually mean 21 million during that period.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Hmm, that seems like a lot.

Yeah, they used poor wording. Their chart shows 18 million gone in 2018/2019, 21 million gone 2020-2026, and then like 30 million gone after.

Note in the report that they actually say they are underestimating the actual losses. This is insanity.
 
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