Support NeoGAF

[Emerson]

Not by shutting down the entire government. No way. That's off limits. That's crap that Republicans do (and blame Democrats for anyway). Don't hand them a loaded gun that they can legitimately use against you.

So please do suggest how you plan to keep DACA recipients in this country and fund the ACA without using this one opportunity. You think Ryan and McConnell are going to bat and putting a bill up for a vote?

Sure they can, and they have and people believe them.

The moron population, anyway.

The vast majority of the population, who pays no attention, blames whoever is in power for whatever is happening at any given time.

 

[kirblar]

The vast majority of the population, who pays no attention, blames whoever is in power for whatever is happening at any given time.

The '90s shutdown hurt the GOP.

 

[Crocodile]

As he has done before. I tweeted at him that I do not support that, a government shutdown should be off limits. He has said himself that shutdowns are the domain of Republicans, as they don't believe in government, where as Democrats do. Do not turn shutdowns into another justification for "both sides" bellyaching.

Fight for DACA and the Dream Act, fight for ACA, but leave government up and running.

A government shutdown is basically the strongest piece of leverage the Dems have and as seen in the past, its the party in the WH that takes most of the heat (if any) in a shutdown, not the obstructing party. If the Dems aren't going to fight tooth and nail for things like Healthcare and DACA what would they fight on? As the minority party in every branch of federal government, what other tools could they use to get the GOP to bend to their will.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

So please do suggest how you plan to keep DACA recipients in this country and fund the ACA without using this one opportunity. You think Ryan and McConnell are going to bat and putting a bill up for a vote?

I'd rather they cave on tax reform. Or literally pick any other thing (other than ACA). Don't use a functioning government as a bargaining chip, particularly when it might actually lead to a shutdown.

 

[Emerson]

I'd rather they cave on tax reform. Or literally pick any other thing (other than ACA). Don't use a functioning government as a bargaining chip, particularly when it might actually lead to a shutdown.

Are you kidding? Their disastrous tax plan, passed into law, would do significantly more damage to the American people than a 2 week government shutdown in which all essential services continue.

The '90s shutdown hurt the GOP.

When the Republicans controlled congress? Yeah, I would suspect so.

 

[Blader]

I don't want a govt shutdown, but it's also not something that falls on Dems anyway. The GOP controls the House and Senate. If a shutdown happens, it's a failure of their party.

 

[IggyChooChoo]

Are you kidding? Their disastrous tax plan, passed into law, would do significantly more damage to the American people than a 2 week government shutdown in which all essential services continue.



When the Republicans controlled congress? Yeah, I would suspect so.

On balance I suspect a govt shutdown during a time when the GOP controlled all three branches would mainly hurt the GOP by making them look weak and disorganized. Given that strength is their core appeal, it could be devastating. And then the policies themselves are helpful to Dems too, because they are popular. But there is a risk it would backfire.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Are you kidding? Their disastrous tax plan, passed into law, would do significantly more damage to the American people than a 2 week government shutdown in which all essential services continue.

That's silly. It's just something that makes rich people richer. Not ideal, but better than demonstrating that the cynical view that all politicians are the same is more right than wrong. Screw that.

If I can ensure that DACA recipients can stay in the country and eventually become citizens, that people can have affordable access to healthcare, I'm absolutely willing to drop the top marginal rate back down to 35%.

If Democrats can ever regain control of Congress and the White House, they can revisit the issue of taxation. What they can't do is get deported immigrants back into the country, they can't get dead citizens back into good health, to say nothing that they can't rehabilitate their lost reputation by shutting down the government after long categorizing that as a strategy of the right. Nope. Don't do it, I won't support it.

 

[Emerson]

That's silly. It's just something that makes rich people richer. Not ideal, but better than demonstrating that the cynical view that all politicians are the same is more right than wrong. Screw that.

If I can ensure that DACA recipients can stay in the country and eventually become citizens, that people can have affordable access to healthcare, I'm absolutely willing to drop the top marginal rate back down to 35%.

If Democrats can ever regain control of Congress and the White House, they can revisit the issue of taxation. What they can't do is get deported immigrants back into the country, they can't get dead citizens back into good health, to say nothing that they can't rehabilitate their lost reputation by shutting down the government after long categorizing that as a strategy of the right. Nope. Don't do it, I won't support it.

It's not just about the rich getting richer. It's about punishing the poor and those in the middle class (read: all of them) who rely on mortgage deductions, child deductions, etc. It's real financial harm for millions of people. And financial harm leads to real physical harm.

You'd rather inflict that on them than cross an ideological line, the real consequences of which are actually pretty minimal? Baffling to me.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

It's not just about the rich getting richer. It's about punishing the poor and those in the middle class (read: all of them) who rely on mortgage deductions, child deductions, etc. It's real financial harm for millions of people. And financial harm leads to real physical harm.

You'd rather inflict that on them than cross an ideological line, the real consequences of which are actually pretty minimal? Baffling to me.

I would think they could easily get those tossed. Agree to not fight against drops in marginal rates, leave current deductions alone. Republicans would go for that in a heartbeat. The trade is GOP must not stand in the way of the Dream Act and must support shoring up ACA.

 

[Cybit]

I would think they could easily get those tossed. Agree to not fight against drops in marginal rates, leave current deductions alone. Republicans would go for that in a heartbeat. The trade is GOP must not stand in the way of the Dream Act and must support shoring up ACA.

That would put us in Kansas level straits - probably not a good idea.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Funny thing is Puritanism was opposed to Christmas back during the English Civil War, and during Cromwell's reign they banned the more festive and secular parts of Christmas entirely, replaced by a solemn Christmas Day mass.

There's a traditional English drinking song about this, "The World Turned Upside-Down" which is also referenced in Hamilton.

Christmas used to be a wild party for grown-ups.

 

[Shao Kahn on the Lawn]

Not by shutting down the entire government. No way. That's off limits. That's crap that Republicans do (and blame Democrats for anyway). Don't hand them a loaded gun that they can legitimately use against you.

Nothing can be off limits now. The Republicans have shown that there is nothing off limits when it comes to getting what they want: if we don't become every bit as ruthless and unyielding in our pursuits, we're always going to be behind as they eviscerate the government. They got a fucking Supreme Court appointment with that behavior and you want to keep playing by the rules?

If keeping the government open means we continue to allow the next 9 months to go like the previous 9, we're better off with it shut down even with all the harm that will come along with it.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Why would the Democrats help the GOP avoid a shut down?

It's not the Democrats' fault a fully R controlled government can't avoid a shut down. If they need the Democrats' support, that comes at a price.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

That would put us in Kansas level straits - probably not a good idea.

No, it wouldn't. Kansas doesn't control its own currency and is therefore constrained by revenue. The United States government has no such constraints (that aren't politically imposed).

 

[Armaros]

No, it wouldn't. Kansas doesn't control its own currency and is therefore constrained by revenue. The United States government has no such constraints (that aren't politically imposed).

And the GOP is the biggest barrier to getting anything good done.

 

[studyguy]

whew

 

[Cybit]

No, it wouldn't. Kansas doesn't control its own currency and is therefore constrained by revenue. The United States government has no such constraints (that aren't politically imposed).

Until they decide to use the ballooning deficit as a reason to cut expenses hardcore. Tax increases are always temporary, tax cuts are almost always permanent. This is why our fiscal policy is crap. I'm actually OK with killing a lot of the deductions and lowering overall taxes, but that requires the discipline to get rid of a lot of deductions that I don't think they'll end up giving up. (taxing capital gains like income, for example)

 

[PantherLotus]

Democrats, the advocates for Good Government doing Good Things, being a part of a government shutdown is a complete non-starter. regardless of how little actual damage 2 weeks of non-essential services sticking around would actually do. this is third order silliness.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

Negative 16.8 in OKLAHOMA? Bwhahahahaha

 

[Owzers]

Today trump pretends to know anything about Iran.

 

[pigeon]

Until they decide to use the ballooning deficit as a reason to cut expenses hardcore. Tax increases are always temporary, tax cuts are almost always permanent. This is why our fiscal policy is crap. I'm actually OK with killing a lot of the deductions and lowering overall taxes, but that requires the discipline to get rid of a lot of deductions that I don't think they'll end up giving up. (taxing capital gains like income, for example)

They don't need a reason to cut entitlements, and they don't care about deficits.

 

[whyamihere]

whew

Trump finally got an election map where all the states are red

 

[Jeels]

We're litigating the 70s and 80s...

 

[Rebel Leader]

..... is he really using shit that happened decades ago ?

 

[Owzers]

We're litigating the 70s and 80s...

We got some killers too

I guess that only works to defend Russia...

 

[Zach]

Negative 16.8 in OKLAHOMA? Bwhahahahaha

(I didn't contribute to that change, though.)

 

[Jeels]

This is so stupid. This man is going to destroy any standing the US has. Nobody can trust the US to do anything, whether that's a security deal (Iran) or a trade one (NAFTA).

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Negative 16.8 in OKLAHOMA? Bwhahahahaha

You have to understand, he started at 90% in Oklahoma.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

I bet Congress is having a lot of fun with every policy decision being thrown on their lap.

 

[Stinkles]

I would think they could easily get those tossed. Agree to not fight against drops in marginal rates, leave current deductions alone. Republicans would go for that in a heartbeat. The trade is GOP must not stand in the way of the Dream Act and must support shoring up ACA.

Those poison pills are the basic funding for the rich guy tax breaks so without those that funding will come from some other poor people service or fund.

 

[nature boy]

I'm detecting lies in this statement

 

[tbm24]

My god he used the "Many people are saying" with regards actual foreign relations, not random bullshit on Twitter.

 

[whyamihere]

You have to understand, he started at 90% in Oklahoma.

61/27 now 56/39 because I'm pedantic.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

We're litigating the 70s and 80s...

What's this about?

 

[Got the Shakes]

So Mick Mulvaney is basically openly saying that they are fucking with the CSR payments to use as a bargaining chip. Could be to get something in repeal or the wall.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/13/trump-opposes-bipartisan-obamacare-rescue-plan-243752

 

[bgbball31]

Is it bad that, while I don't know much about the Iran deal outside of the fact that most in DC want to stay in it, I just assume he is lying a ton in this speech because he is the one giving it?

I know that shouldn't be the response to the president of the US, or anyone really, but it is where I am.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

So Mick Mulvaney is basically openly saying that they are fucking with the CSR payments to use as a bargaining chip. Could be to get something in repeal or the wall.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/13/trump-opposes-bipartisan-obamacare-rescue-plan-243752

This seems to be his game.

Remove something via EO. Bait Congress into bringing it back, hoping he can get what he wants as part of it.

Except Congress never does because Congress is broken, so step 2 never happens and he ends up just getting blamed for cutting something people like.

 

[RumbleHumble]

Is it bad that, while I don't know much about the Iran deal outside of the fact that most in DC want to stay in it, I just assume he is lying a ton in this speech because he is the one giving it?

I know that shouldn't be the response to the president of the US, or anyone really, but it is where I am.

Shouldn't be your response to the President of the United State unless that man also happens to be Satan. Or Trump.

 

[Rebel Leader]

What's this about?

Trump is using shit from that time as a reason to not certify the iran deal

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

whew

for once Idaho is nearly as good at a metric as California

also Alaska is disappointingly low

They don't need a reason to cut entitlements, and they don't care about deficits.

This is true, but Democrats do, which is part of the whole shell game. We (kinda) lucked out last time because Republicans fucked up their end of austerity!

 

[Got the Shakes]

Trump logic:

I’m opposed to a deal that might allow Iran sometime in the future to have a nuclear weapon so I’m taking steps to ensure they resume trying to create one tomorrow.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

Im confused, did he actually fuck with the iran deal or is he just asking congress to do it?

 

[dramatis]

Im confused, did he actually fuck with the iran deal or is he just asking congress to do it?

He's "decertifying" but that means technically the US is still in the Iran deal.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

I’m starting to think someone at Gallup needs to give the daily tracker a good whack. But maybe Trump’s mildly shored up numbers are that stubborn.

 

[sangreal]

Im confused, did he actually fuck with the iran deal or is he just asking congress to do it?

he refused to certify that they are in compliance which activates a fast track provision in congress that allows them to withdraw w/ 51 votes

apparently they have no immediate plans to do so because they think this will give them leverage to renegotiate (it wont)

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

he refused to certify that they are in compliance which activates a fast track provision in congress that allows them to withdraw w/ 51 votes

Sadly this is one that McCain would be all for.

 

[sangreal]

Sadly this is one that McCain would be all for.

so would many democrats

Schumer, for one

 

[VendettaRed07]

He's "decertifying" but that means technically the US is still in the Iran deal.

So a way to say fuck you to Obama but without actually suffering the consequences for doing so

Governoring like a true opposition party

 

[Box of Kittens]

Biggest drop in net approval in Illinois. Best state confirmed.

Spoiler

Not a huge fan of Morning Consult's polls.