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[Fragamemnon]

Somehow, despite the facts, it's just so intuitive in Republican minds that higher taxes = no jobs.

I get the notion from a lot of these posters that there is a rigid, simplistic belief that all the cute graphs we all learned in economics class are able to perfectly model rational actors and that there is no elasticity anywhere on the curves they have in their minds.

 

[blame space]

Don't you find it interesting that leading economists tend to "identify themselves with democrats"?

Why might that be?

Tree-hugging hippies.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

oh look how cute, someone gets their wrong talking points from Fox News.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...et-second-most-money-from-freddie-and-fannie/

The Facts: Federal law forbids candidates from receiving money directly from companies. The nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics tracks donations from employees of various companies. The center's list of contributions from Fannie and Freddie employees places Obama second. Ahead of him is Sen. Chris Dodd, Democratic chairman of the Senate Banking Committee.

The total listed for Obama is $126,349 — a tiny fraction of the approximately $390 million his campaign has raised, according to the center. The list shows McCain has received a total of $21,550 from Fannie and Freddie employees. The list includes donations of at least $200 from those who receive paychecks from Fannie and Freddie. It also includes donations from political action committees — pooled contributions from employees.

STRIKE ONE!

 

[sixteen-bit]

Barrack

 

[Azih]

It's a random sampling of ECONOMISTS, the number of Economists who identify themselves as Republicans is extremely extremely low at the moment. Don't you wonder why?

I mean these are ECONOMISTS for god's sake.

 

[reilo]

:lol at saying Obama and democrats were at fault for the housing market.

Over/Under on the amount of talking points he is going to throw in before the end of the day?

 

[speculawyer]

Predatory lending went on in the private sector, not with Fannie and Freddie, who took on a greater number of subprime loans only in response (and late at that) to the flood of private lenders doing the same. The timeline is pretty conclusive in that regard.

Fannie & Freddie don't do retail lending at all, do they? I thought they just bought up mortgages from banks so the banks had money to do more lending. I don't even think it is possible for Fannie or Freddie to do 'predatory lending' since they don't deal with home owners directly.

 

[Blackhead]

A question for all those fans who have been following Obama's campaign for a long time:

Can you recall any faux pas made by the campaign or actions that taken that you didn't like?

Has he really run a flawless clean campaign?

They promised ice cream for all. FOR ALL. Not some! ALL!

FISA cave. And assuming that because they had won Iowa, New Hampshire would simply follow suit. They basically glided into NH after Iowa, did a few high profile stump speeches and expected a win. It was nice to see that attitude change.

Obama has made some poorly worded slips (sweetie-gate, bitter-gate, etc.). I disagree with his FISA position, and wish he were even more progressive on gay marriage.

But from an organizational perspective? I can't think of anything. Everything is playing out the way Obama wanted: he spread the field of red states, his massive ground game registered millions of new voters, leaving public financing is enabling a huge spending advantage and he's surrounded himself with the best campaign managers and strategists out there.

Every time I've questioned a strategic move of Obama's, I've been proven wrong.

Thank you.

Quoting here so it doesn't get missed. Anybody else? I'm thinking Hitokage, Cheebs...

 

[CharlieDigital]

Thank you.

Quoting here so it doesn't get missed. Anybody else? I'm thinking Hitokage, Cheebs...

Holy shit, where's mah ice cream then? No ice cream, no vote!

 

[Stoney Mason]

As the electoral landscape continues to look bleak for Republicans, Al Franken has pulled ahead of Republican incumbent Norm Coleman in Minnesota’s hotly contested U.S. Senate race. Support for Independent candidate Dean Barkley could have a significant impact on the final outcome of the race.
The latest Rasmussen Reports telephone survey shows Franken with 43% of the vote, Coleman with 37%, and Barkley with 17%. This is the largest advantage Franken has enjoyed all year. A month ago, Coleman was up by a point.
Franken leads by fourteen points among women but trails by a single point among men.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...ions/minnesota/election_2008_minnesota_senate

 

[ShOcKwAvE]

:lol at saying Obama and democrats were at fault for the housing market.

Over/Under on the amount of talking points he is going to throw in before the end of the day?

Exact words from Rush L. as I was listening this afternoon for laughs.

 

[besada]

Exact words from Rush L. as I was listening this afternoon for laughs.

He probably got all het up over Rush and got here as quick as he could to school us youngsters.

 

[thegreyfox]

crap Dow just broke 9,000

 

[Fragamemnon]

I just might watch Fox News on election night after the MN polls close to see how they react to Senator-Elect Al Franken. :lol :lol :lol

PINHEAD!

 

[scorcho]

Fannie & Freddie don't do retail lending at all, do they? I thought they just bought up mortgages from banks so the banks had money to do more lending. I don't even think it is possible for Fannie or Freddie to do 'predatory lending' since they don't deal with home owners directly.

Yep, should've said securitized/bought subprime loans.

 

[Tim-E]

Obama up 8% in WV??? He's been gaining a lot of momentum here and we've been working our asses off volunteering. I'll be break dancing in the streets if he wins this state. He doesn't need it to win, but it would be nice.

 

[DemDereNads]

You really don't seem to know how corporate taxes work. If your employer isn't making a profit, they are not paying taxes.

What the hell are you talking about? Who said the employer won't be making a profit?

The government doesn't just walk into a business and say "Hey, pay us some damn taxes . . . don't have the money? Then fire a few people!"

Talk about being completely naive, sheesh!

Actually the business as a whole will have less money to pay employees, as it will be paying the government even more money over the already ridiculous taxes. Who do you think will get hit the hardest? The ones on the top, determining who gets paid and how much? Or the guy in the middle and bottom who has no say over anyone's wages?

 

[gcubed]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...et-second-most-money-from-freddie-and-fannie/




STRIKE ONE!

from fannie and freddie employees. So employees aren't allowed to donate? What you SHOULD care about, is the money the company sends to the campaign. But you wouldnt want to look at that.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Re: "In fact, when you look historically at taxes and job creation/loss, there is no correlation."

There may not be a direct correlation, but say, for example, if tax cuts aren't bringing in revenue and the government is increasing spending, that leads to a bigger deficit, thus effecting the economy.

 

[JCreasy]

To celebrate Obama's second day of leading McCain on Gallup by double digits, here's the brady bunch song, sung like it's never been sung before: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ws9Jy-WQp8

Obama/Biden 08

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Thank you.

Quoting here so it doesn't get missed. Anybody else? I'm thinking Hitokage, Cheebs...

I was disappointed in June, after he secured the nomination, when he backed off on his rhetoric against NAFTA. Not because I have strong feelings one way or another about NAFTA, mind you, but just because I did find it to be a moment where he was like every other politician out there. During the Ohio primary, both he and Clinton were trying to appear to be as against NAFTA as possible to win the state, but once he secured the nomination, it became clear that this was more pandering to a specific demographic than in a true belief one way or another about the issue.

 

[greepoman]

Including your buddy Barrack who was the #2 beneficiary from Fannie and Freddy.

I love how people love to tie Obama to Fannie and Freddy but if you look at total contributions from 2000-2006 a large majority went to Republicans. Then that flip flopped in 2006 with Democrats getting more money...because they knew Democrats were going to come to power.

And to anyone still thinking it's just democrats pushing "affordable housing":

Expanding Homeownership. The President believes that homeownership is the cornerstone of America's vibrant communities and benefits individual families by building stability and long-term financial security. In June 2002, President Bush issued America's Homeownership Challenge to the real estate and mortgage finance industries to encourage them to join the effort to close the gap that exists between the homeownership rates of minorities and non-minorities. The President also announced the goal of increasing the number of minority homeowners by at least 5.5 million families before the end of the decade. Under his leadership, the overall U.S. homeownership rate in the second quarter of 2004 was at an all time high of 69.2 percent. Minority homeownership set a new record of 51 percent in the second quarter, up 0.2 percentage point from the first quarter and up 2.1 percentage points from a year ago. President Bush's initiative to dismantle the barriers to homeownership includes:

-American Dream Downpayment Initiative, which provides down payment assistance to approximately 40,000 low-income families;
-Affordable Housing. The President has proposed the Single-Family Affordable Housing Tax Credit, which would increase the supply of affordable homes;
-Helping Families Help Themselves. The President has proposed increasing support for the Self-Help Homeownership Opportunities Program; and
-Simplifying Homebuying and Increasing Education. The President and HUD want to empower homebuyers by simplifying the home buying process so consumers can better understand and benefit from cost savings. The President also wants to expand financial education efforts so that families can understand what they need to do to become homeowners

And guess who wrote that ....Rick Davis. McCain Campaign Manager and long-time McCain associate was the Chief Lobbyist for Freddie Mac for 6 years and was still getting paid until the government bailout last month.

 

[HylianTom]

I just might watch Fox News on election night after the MN polls close to see how they react to Senator-Elect Al Franken. :lol :lol :lol

PINHEAD!

Fox News is going to be epic viewing that evening. I'm going to have one TV on Comedy Central (DVRing as much as I can), and another TV on Fox. Maybe Hannity will vomit live on the air for us?

 

[gcubed]

Thank you.

Quoting here so it doesn't get missed. Anybody else? I'm thinking Hitokage, Cheebs...

FISA was my biggest gripe with Obama, and when he talked about grounding NASA for a few years

 

[The Lamonster]

Thank you.

Quoting here so it doesn't get missed. Anybody else? I'm thinking Hitokage, Cheebs...

He also gets better and better in the debates. I expect his best performance next Wednesday.

 

[bob_arctor]

:lol If you lurking McCain fanboys have the balls to bother posting, at least bring some handle of the subject you want to bitch about. I mean, I know you're voting for the old man but that doesn't mean you have to be uninformed like him too.

 

[StopMakingSense]

crap Dow just broke 9,000

They did it for the lulz.

 

[scorcho]

Actually the business as a whole will have less money to pay employees, as it will be paying the government even more money over the already ridiculous taxes. Who do you think will get hit the hardest? The ones on the top, determining who gets paid and how much? Or the guy in the middle and bottom who has no say over anyone's wages?

What ridiculous taxes are we talking about? The same that's allowed for these awesome results?

I'm sure that's all coincidence though.

 

[CharlieDigital]

Actually the business as a whole will have less money to pay employees, as it will be paying the government even more money over the already ridiculous taxes. Who do you think will get hit the hardest? The ones on the top, determining who gets paid and how much? Or the guy in the middle and bottom who has no say over anyone's wages?

Are you going to base your argument on facts or just your "hunch" and theory of how business, taxes and job creation work?

Have you ever seen the historical tax rates on the top bracket?

Seriously.

http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php

More data here: http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/88xx/doc8885/EffectiveTaxRates.shtml

 

[smurfx]

dow under 9k again. :O

 

[Stoney Mason]

crap Dow just broke 9,000

Not that the dow is the best way to judge an economy but it's always humorous to note that it was at 10,587.59 the day Bush took office.

 

[ShOcKwAvE]

He probably got all het up over Rush and got here as quick as he could to school us youngsters.

Huh? Are you talking to me?

 

[straydog1980]

Read the chart that was posted. Nearly 50% identify themselves with democrats.

yeah, and another 40% state they aren't affiliated with either party, and yet the majority of them still sided with Obama.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM???????

 

[Joe]

tickets for the debate at hofstra are going for $250-$300 each

 

[HylianTom]

What ridiculous taxes are we talking about? The same that's allowed for these awesome results?

I'm sure that's all coincidence though.

Yeah, totally.

best Rush Limbaugh voice: "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics."

----

edit: Dow below 9000, eh?


Dow, may I have a word with you?

You've done your part. The election is sealed - you don't need to do any more for us. Really. I truly appreciate the effort, but at this point you're over-doing it. Cheers.

 

[besada]

Huh? Are you talking to me?

To you, but not about you. I was referring to our current talking points spouting sacrifice.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

tickets for the debate at hofstra are going for $250-$300 each

Sounds like a steal actually....

 

[CharlieDigital]

Sounds like a steal actually....

If you could get an Obama signed photo while you're there, you could probably make a profit, too.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

What ridiculous taxes are we talking about? The same that's allowed for these awesome results?

I'm sure that's all coincidence though.

Don't forget this:

Bush was the first president since Hoover to dip negative in his first term. :lol

 

[The Librarian]

What's happened today, PoliGAF?!

 

[bob_arctor]

What's happened today, PoliGAF?!

Well, a new McCain supporter has entered the ring. The ring so far has not been kind to him.

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

What's happened today, PoliGAF?!

Santa Claus endorsed Sarah Palin, she's got the non-voter vote in the tank.

 

[HylianTom]

What's happened today, PoliGAF?!

Status quo. Lead preserved. Another day, another chance to close the gap drained from McCain's lifeforce.

Dow has also decided to trump any news that might arise from the campaign trail, dipping below 9000.

 

[scorcho]

What's happened today, PoliGAF?!

Having an economics discussion with a poster who believes in his/her GUT that Obama's (and by default Democratic) economic policies are a disaster.

 

[Cyan]

You are completely naive if you do not see the clear bias. Right from the beginning, all the major networks went on Obama's foreign tour. They never bring up anything but praise for Obama, and trash McCain/Palin any chance they get.

You guys seem to love polls, go find the ones where people actually agree there is a clear Obama bias.

Of course people think there's an Obama bias. That's been the McCain narrative from the start. In fact, it's been a Republican strategy for years--play the victim to the "mainstream media." There's this bizarre victim mentality that seems to go along with being a Republican, and McCain has played into that with his anti-media shtick.

Question for you- do you believe that Katie Couric's questioning of Palin was unfair or biased in any way?

Question - Does anyone here actually have a career yet? Or are you all students?

If you do have a career, don't you fear what will happen to it once your employer gets hit with higher taxes? Do you believe they are going to be "patriotic" like Biden says and suck it up? Or do you think they are going to lower your wages and/or lay people off to make up for it?

I have a career in finance. And I'm pretty confident that I'll be better off under Obama than I would be under McCain.

 

[Incognito]

Sounds like a steal actually....

Yeah, that's a damn bargain if you ask me. Better scoop that shit up, joe.

 

[Tamanon]

"All of the things they said about Barack Obama in the TV, on the TV, at their rallies, and now on YouTube ... John McCain could not bring himself to look Barack Obama in the eye and say the same things to him ... In my neighborhood, when you've got something to say to a guy, you look him in the eye and you say it to him."

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/10/09/1522310.aspx

<3 Biden. Framing it right.

 

[Byakuya769]

So wait, because the individual incomes of company executives will be raised they will lower my wages? How does that make sense?

Yea, increase of jobs doesn't come from increase demand for services/goods provided by jobs, it comes from the bosses taking more money home and decided out of the goodness of their hearts to create more jobs so they take less home. Simple economics, right?

 

[Malleymal]

tickets for the debate at hofstra are going for $250-$300 each

Ill probably be there.

 

[The Librarian]

Status quo. Lead preserved. Another day, another chance to close the gap drained from McCain's lifeforce.

Dow has also decided to trump any news that might arise from the campaign trail, dipping below 9000.

It's below 9,000?!!?!?!?! When will it end? DOW PLEASE STOP PLUNGING!!!

Having an economics discussion with a poster who believes in his/her GUT that Obama's (and by default Democratic) economic policies are a disaster.

Who?