Support NeoGAF

[Miroku]

Please enlighten me. How exactly are we going to create more jobs in this country by raising the corporate tax rate? We're already one of the highest in the world. This is going to do nothing but send more jobs abroad. Especially given the recent histroy of countries lowering their corporate rates.

This doesn't even take into consideration what raising cap. gains will do. Now is a time when we need to try to position America to be more competitive in the Global business environment. Our economy is already hurting, why make a recovery more difficult?

In all likelihood it will be a while before Obama raises any corporate or capital gains taxes.

 

[AstroLad]

mccain should definitely pitch that ceo thing to the voters big-time right now

 

[ghibli99]

awkwaaaaard.

I think his only option was to fake laugh his way through it... it was such a *bad* Biden impression. Not even close, and not funny at all. Kinda like Chase playing Ford, only that was funny.

 

[Captain Pants]

mccain should definitely pitch that ceo thing to the voters big-time right now

:lol

 

[Cloudy]

McCain is tanking on the Iowa Electronic Market

DEM08_WTA 0.823
REP08_WTA 0.183

He was at 0.379 before the Ayers crap. The debate probably helped too though..

 

[smurfx]

ah dammit i just accidently put down a vote for bob barr instead of barack obama on my voter mail in form. :lol

 

[Saint Gregory]

mccain should definitely pitch that ceo thing to the voters big-time right now

As idiotic and hypocritical as his camp has been lately he just might.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Please enlighten me. How exactly are we going to create more jobs in this country by raising the corporate tax rate? We're already one of the highest in the world. This is going to do nothing but send more jobs abroad. Especially given the recent histroy of countries lowering their corporate rates.

This doesn't even take into consideration what raising cap. gains will do. Now is a time when we need to try to position America to be more competitive in the Global business environment. Our economy is already hurting, why make a recovery more difficult?

Raising the capital gains tax to 20% won't hurt the rich. It was never a problem during the 90s. Retards like Newt Gingrich and Steve Forbes were saying the economy would collapse if Clinton's 93 tax package were to be enacted. The best way for the economy to improve is to create a disinflationary period. Raise taxes on the rich, lower the deficit, resulting to low interest rates so investors will invest without the fear of rising inflation.

 

[Shiggie]

OMG!:lol
Was this ytmnd posted?

 

[Cloudy]

mccain should definitely pitch that ceo thing to the voters big-time right now

I can see the Obama ad now:

"You know the only people who like McCain's economic plan"?

 

[PillowKnight]

Please enlighten me. How exactly are we going to create more jobs in this country by raising the corporate tax rate? We're already one of the highest in the world. This is going to do nothing but send more jobs abroad. Especially given the recent histroy of countries lowering their corporate rates.

This doesn't even take into consideration what raising cap. gains will do. Now is a time when we need to try to position America to be more competitive in the Global business environment. Our economy is already hurting, why make a recovery more difficult?

By investing the money in capital, for example alternative energy. All this tax money isn't just being thrown in some pit never to be seen again.

You might be wondering why it matters that the government receives this money as opposed to the corporations, the main reason is that governments don't need to achieve profitability. So they can afford to invest heavily in alternative energy sources without having to worry about short term financial gains.

I'm not too familiar with Obama's spending plan so don't quote me on this, but a huge part of the plan is focused on alternative energy funding , thus making sure the U.S. leads in alternative energy technology.

Is it fact that higher taxes lower job growth? What research are you citing?

 

[mckmas8808]

cnn talking about ACORN/indiana/Lake County/voter registration fraud -- 5,000 dropped off on one day, 2,100 so far fraudulent


hahaha one was for 'jimmy johns' at cnn went to the address and it was a jimmy johns

What? What is this about?

 

[thekad]

Please enlighten me. How exactly are we going to create more jobs in this country by raising the corporate tax rate? We're already one of the highest in the world. This is going to do nothing but send more jobs abroad. Especially given the recent histroy of countries lowering their corporate rates.

This doesn't even take into consideration what raising cap. gains will do. Now is a time when we need to try to position America to be more competitive in the Global business environment. Our economy is already hurting, why make a recovery more difficult?

So we should keep doing what we've been doing - lowering taxes for the wealthy - since that has worked so well the last 8 years?

P.S. I don't even remember Obama ever saying he was going to raise the corporate tax rate, just close the loopholes these huge corporations use to get out of paying their fair share.

 

[giga]

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/#invest-for-jobs

 

[Hellsing321]

ah dammit i just accidently put down a vote for bob barr instead of barack obama on my voter mail in form. :lol

McCain is going to win in a landslide because of things like this.

 

[Kinitari]

Wow, I am starting to see a lot of desperation stemming from both sides of the camp now, not the actual politicians mind you, the voters. Seems like the people who want Obama REALLY don't want McCain, and those who want McCain REEEEEAAAAAAAAALLY fucking REEAAAAAALLLY don't want Obama to be president.

That makes me wonder, I hear all these young punks saying they're going to move to Europe or Canada if McCain is elected president, what do you think all these McCain supporters are going to do if (and even I am kinda hoping it happens) Obama is elected?

 

[johnsmith]

Wow, I am starting to see a lot of desperation stemming from both sides of the camp now, not the actual politicians mind you, the voters. Seems like the people who want Obama REALLY don't want McCain, and those who want McCain REEEEEAAAAAAAAALLY fucking REEAAAAAALLLY don't want Obama to be president.

That makes me wonder, I hear all these young punks saying they're going to move to Europe or Canada if McCain is elected president, what do you think all these McCain supporters are going to do if (and even I am kinda hoping it happens) Obama is elected?

Move to compounds in Idaho.

 

[Stinkles]

Wow, I am starting to see a lot of desperation stemming from both sides of the camp now, not the actual politicians mind you, the voters. Seems like the people who want Obama REALLY don't want McCain, and those who want McCain REEEEEAAAAAAAAALLY fucking REEAAAAAALLLY don't want Obama to be president.

That makes me wonder, I hear all these young punks saying they're going to move to Europe or Canada if McCain is elected president, what do you think all these McCain supporters are going to do if (and even I am kinda hoping it happens) Obama is elected?

I guess we can have all the empty McMansions.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

By investing the money in capital, for example alternative energy. All this tax money isn't just being thrown in some pit never to be seen again.

You might be wondering why it matters that the government receives this money as opposed to the corporations, the main reason is that governments don't need to achieve profitability. So they can afford to invest heavily in alternative energy sources without having to worry about short term financial gains.

I'm not too familiar with Obama's spending plan so don't quote me on this, but a huge part of the plan is focused on alternative energy funding , thus making sure the U.S. leads in alternative energy technology.

Is it fact that higher taxes lower job growth? What research are you citing?

There is no emperical evidence. Just like how there's no emperical evidence that cutting taxes on real wages doesn't increase productivity or a person to work longer hours. Most economists think supply-side economics is a joke.

 

[Pakkidis]

Wow, I am starting to see a lot of desperation stemming from both sides of the camp now, not the actual politicians mind you, the voters. Seems like the people who want Obama REALLY don't want McCain, and those who want McCain REEEEEAAAAAAAAALLY fucking REEAAAAAALLLY don't want Obama to be president.

That makes me wonder, I hear all these young punks saying they're going to move to Europe or Canada if McCain is elected president, what do you think all these McCain supporters are going to do if (and even I am kinda hoping it happens) Obama is elected?

As a Canadian I already addressed that issue. Canada is going to post a big sign at our Borders saying "We love gay marriage, you will never own a gun, we are pro choice"

No offense to any americans, but after seeing some of those vids, conservative right wing people stay the hell away from Canada.

 

[Hootie]

Will there be a separate thread Election Day for the people who want to tell the entire world who they voted for? I'd hate to see the PoliGAF thread bogged down by hundreds of "+1 Obama/McCain" posts.


Oh man...the Election Day thread is going to be the greatest thread in the history of GAF, hands down. Once the polls start coming in there'll be more than 100 posts a minute. :lol

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

No offense to any americans, but after seeing some of those vids, conservative right wing people stay the hell away from Canada.

don't worry, they aren't going anywhere.

though dear god, i wish they would

 

[so_awes]

what is this ACORN thing on Lou Dobb??

 

[greatestjediever]

Please enlighten me. How exactly are we going to create more jobs in this country by raising the corporate tax rate? We're already one of the highest in the world. This is going to do nothing but send more jobs abroad. Especially given the recent histroy of countries lowering their corporate rates.

This doesn't even take into consideration what raising cap. gains will do. Now is a time when we need to try to position America to be more competitive in the Global business environment. Our economy is already hurting, why make a recovery more difficult?

With available tax rates and tax shelters, I don't think a lot of larger corporations are actually paying the statutory 35% federal income tax + state tax (which is partly deductible against federal taxes). This is probably what Buffett was talking about when he referencing how much less the wealthy pay in taxes compared to those without the aid of tax reducing accounting practices.

I doubt constantly lowering corporate tax rates isn't the answer either, especially if the tax code is already complex enough that effective tax rates are lower than effective rates elsewhere. Not to mention, you must be able to offset the reduction in tax revenue by increasing investment (naturally the aim of reducing tax rates is to do just that), and will likely face increasing downward pressure from other countries willing to do the same.

 

[EricM85]

Are you aware of the tax penalty that Obama proposes upon overseas outsourcers?

Yes.

Ehhh, this isn't necessarily true.

We have the 2nd highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world.

In all likelihood it will be a while before Obama raises any corporate or capital gains taxes.

Let's hope, it's economic suicide to do it under current conditions.

Raising the capital gains tax to 20% won't hurt the rich. It was never a problem during the 90s. Retards like Newt Gingrich and Steve Forbes were saying the economy would collapse if Clinton's 93 tax package were to be enacted. The best way for the economy to improve is to create a disinflationary period. Raise taxes on the rich, lower the deficit, resulting to low interest rates so investors will invest without the fear of rising inflation.

I'm sorry, I didn't know the rich were the only individuals impacted by capital gains.
I agree we need to address inflationary fears. To do this we need to attract capital, which would help ease the credit situation, and allow business to grow. We need pro-growth tax policies.

 

[Cyan]

We have the 2nd highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world.

Nominal or effective?

 

[damisa]

Will there be a separate thread Election Day for the people who want to tell the entire world who they voted for? I'd hate to see the PoliGAF thread bogged down by hundreds of "+1 Obama/McCain" posts.


Oh man...the Election Day thread is going to be the greatest thread in the history of GAF, hands down. Once the polls start coming in there'll be more than 100 posts a minute. :lol

yup, it will be glorious

 

[blame space]

:lol really?

 

[smurfx]

McCain is going to win in a landslide because of things like this.

at least obama has california in the bag already. although i am going to call and get a new form.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Nominal or effective?

It's certainly not effective since most large corporations don't end up paying much if any when you factor in breaks and incentives and those convenient accounting tricks and loopholes woven in.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Y



I'm sorry, I didn't know the rich were the only individuals impacted by capital gains.
.

Yeah. So that leaves small businesses. They will not be affected at all.

EDIT-And you thank Reagan's 81 tax cuts for creating the largest tax loophole ever. :lol

 

[thekad]

EricM85: The capital gains tax will not be raised by Obama for anyone making lower than 250,000 a year, so yes, it does only effect the rich. And it will be lower than it was under Clinton, who had more jobs created under his presidency than Bush...who cut the capital gains tax.

 

[Cyan]

It's certainly not effective since most large corporations don't end up paying much if any when you factor in breaks and incentives and those convenient accounting tricks and loopholes woven in.

That's what I was thinking. Which would render that talking point entirely meaningless.

 

[Fox318]

:lol really?

How can you trash a man and then flaunt him. Palin did the same thing with the New York times. The hypocrisy is ridiculous.

 

[Mario]

That makes me wonder, I hear all these young punks saying they're going to move to Europe or Canada if McCain is elected president, what do you think all these McCain supporters are going to do if (and even I am kinda hoping it happens) Obama is elected?

I am sure having Obama as president would be way more agreeable than moving to foreign lands for a large proportion of conservatives (not all!) who as far as I can tell (being a foreigner) can be fundamentally suspicious of and have negative attitudes towards any and all other countries.


I sure as hell know they won't be coming to New Zealand. We have a female prime minister, an openly gay minister, a Rastafarian minister, a transexual minister, same sex civil unions, legal abortions, no death penalty, and a no nukes policy.

 

[Fragamemnon]

Please enlighten me. How exactly are we going to create more jobs in this country by raising the corporate tax rate? We're already one of the highest in the world. This is going to do nothing but send more jobs abroad. Especially given the recent histroy of countries lowering their corporate rates.

Technically correct, but in reality we collect one of the lowest-4th out of the top 30, if I remember the statistic right-amount of tax revenue from corporate taxes as a percentage of GDP. The gap here is because the corporate tax loopholes that exist that prevent the government from collecting anything remotely as high as what is in the law.

One of Barack Obama's chief economic advisors talks at length about the issue in this op-ed:

http://www.brookings.edu/opinions/2007/1027_corporate_taxes_furman.aspx

This doesn't even take into consideration what raising cap. gains will do. Now is a time when we need to try to position America to be more competitive in the Global business environment. Our economy is already hurting, why make a recovery more difficult?

I guess Ronald Reagan was such an anti-growth communist, given his levels of the captial gains taxation rate is the same as the high end of the capital gains rate Obama is talking about.

 

[Slurpy]

:lol really?

This is onion level shit right there.

As to the poster who asked what some of the extreme McCain supporters will do once Obama is elected President, I propose they move to underground colonies. They're a cancer on this country.

 

[AstroLad]

Here you go.

High Corporate Tax Rate Is Misleading

IF YOU SAY SOMETHING long enough and loud enough, there's every chance people will come to believe it's true, especially if your opponents tire of rebuttals.

This time-honored political strategy has been working overtime of late, as Republican presidential hopefuls romance the richer Florida retirees with appeals for cuts in corporate taxes.

You may have heard: U.S. corporations face one of the highest income tax rates in the world, though the mention of "rate" is often enough excised, so that what comes through is the assertion that corporations pay too much in taxes. This is simply untrue if your basis for comparison is the developed world. The truth is that while the 35% corporate income tax rate is high indeed, the creativity and global reach of U.S. corporations make them among the most lightly levied.

Between 2000 and 2005, U.S. corporate taxes amounted to 2.2% of the GDP. The average for the 30 mostly rich member countries of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development was 3.4%.

Why the disparity given the high federal rate, which rises to 39% counting state taxes? Part of the answer is that big U.S. companies have become expert at hiding profits in tax havens overseas. And many of the smaller ones simply pass through their income to owners who then report it on their personal returns.

According to one analysis, if so much corporate income hadn't moved to the personal tax rolls over the last 20 years, U.S. corporate taxes would account for 3.2% of the GDP, still a bit below the OECD average. "Usage of pass-through forms of business organization can be viewed as a form of 'self-help' corporate tax integration," writes Peter R. Merrill, a partner at PricewaterhouseCoopers.

The income not squired away overseas or channeled to the personal returns still enjoys protection in the form of various tax breaks that depress the effective rate to 27%, according to the Treasury Department. Such breaks are expected to cost the Treasury $1.2 trillion over the next 10 years, reducing the corporate tax revenue by 25%.

Meanwhile, there's growing evidence that, despite the occasional crackdowns on especially creative tax accounting, routine corporate tax dodges are way up by historical standards, as multinationals play an increasingly profitable shell game.

According to one study, corporate taxable income has increasingly diverged from the (much higher) financial profits reported to shareholders. Another more recent analysis estimates that the effective corporate rate in the U.S. peaked at nearly 32% in 2000 but has declined to 25% by 2005.

There are so many ways to play the game: One can park valuable royalty-bearing intellectual property with foreign subsidiaries (hello, Microsoft (MSFT: 22.36*, -0.65, -2.82%)) or merely make sure that U.S. operations incur tax-deductible interest payments by borrowing money from cash-rich subsidiaries overseas. This is what's known in industry parlance as "income-shifting." It passes the time while one waits for the next U.S. tax holiday on repatriated overseas profits.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the solution here: Drop the corporate income tax rate to, say, the Swedish socialist level of 28% to reduce the attraction of tax havens, while eliminating the broad exemptions and industry-specific perks that have turned our tax code into Swiss cheese feeding a regiment of millionaire tax lawyers. Make sure the total share of the tax bill sent to corporations either stays the same or goes up. In recent decades, corporate receipts have declined dramatically in relation to the highly regressive payroll taxes. It's long past time to reverse that trend, restoring work incentives to what they once were.

This is not a left/right issue, as one of the country's foremost corporate tax experts points out. Martin A. Sullivan writes that in Europe, it's the progressive governments that have often pushed for lower tax rates, applied more uniformly. Meanwhile, in Canada, it's the free-market Conservatives who've moved to eliminate tax-favored trusts in order to shore up the national tax base.

The choice is clear: a fairly enforced code that's deaf to special pleadings and thus capable of sustaining rates broadly competitive with those overseas, or else continued erosion of the tax base and tremendous waste from attempts to game the system, leading to various economic distortions and perversions. But this would not amount to a tax cut. And so I guess it wouldn't sell well in Boca Raton.

http://www.smartmoney.com/invisiblehand/index.cfm?story=20080125-corporate-tax-rate&pgnum=2

 

[ViperVisor]

what is this ACORN thing on Lou Dobb??

They register voters. Specifically poor/minorities.

Some of the time they mess things up and they themselves flag them in the process.

Morons are acting like they are trying to steal the election which is hard to do when you aren't able to vote due to screwed up registration and most states not accepting new ones after Monday.

 

[Saint Gregory]

I sure as hell know they won't be coming to New Zealand. We have a female prime minister, an openly gay minister, a Rastafarian minister, a transexual minister, same sex civil unions, legal abortions, no death penalty, and a no nukes policy.

All this and Peter Jackson? Where do I sign up?

They register voters. Specifically poor/minorities.

Some of the time they mess things up and they themselves flag them in the process.

Morons are acting like they are trying to steal the election which is hard to do when you aren't able to vote due to screwed up registration.

I thought they helped low income buyers find homes. I think the fact that there's so much confusion about ACORN shows what a non-issue it is.

 

[Captain Pants]

Move to compounds in Idaho.

If we let any more Republicans into this state it would explode.

 

[Mario]

All this and Peter Jackson? Where do I sign up?

Here

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Here you go.


http://www.smartmoney.com/invisiblehand/index.cfm?story=20080125-corporate-tax-rate&pgnum=2

Not only that, but:

http://www.askquestions.org/articles/taxes/#07

Fraud Costs More Than Medicare

“If tax dodging were a business, it would be the nation’s largest corporation,” said journalists Barlett and Steele. The current $311 billion tax gap is the equivalent of the total income taxes paid annually by all individuals and families earning less than $75,000.

If we simply collected taxes that cheaters are withholding from the system, we would have enough to give a free college education to every child in America, or to provide health insurance for small business employees, or to cut social security taxes in half. It amounts to more money than we spent for Medicare in 2003, almost as much as the Defense budget, and almost enough to pay last year’s deficit.

 

[Slurpy]

ACORN is the new Al-Qaeda.

 

[LuCkymoON]

I'm a true blue Obama supporter since way back in the primaries, but I really try to resist this kind of thinking. It's good for you to have conservative friends and to be able to chat with them in a genuine exchange about politics. When there is respect between you and the conservative, it feels unifying and wonderful to talk with them, like a weight is being lifted -- even as you acknowledge the disagreements.

no, these neo-cons can not be reasoned with. They are very stupid and should be called out for the idiocy. Where I work in Coppell, TX it is easy to find the McCain/Palin08 sticker and even the N0Bama stickers. After talking with these people I was able to break the arguments down to these things:

Always voted republican and always will.
Pro-lifer
Obama is a socialist/communist/fascist
I dont know who Obama really is.
he scares me (thinly veiled racism)

I've noticed that you can not talk policy to these people, once you mention Obama they automatically go into defence mode. They don't want to hear about him or his policy, they just know he is bad for our country and he scares them. Even mentioning how our founding fathers were Scientist, professors, lawyers and elite, could get you killed.
It's these kind of people who are holding our country back from real progress.

 

[thekad]

I thought they helped low income buyers find homes. I think the fact that there's so much confusion about ACORN shows what a non-issue it is.

ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, is a community organization of low- and moderate-income families that addresses housing, schools, neighborhood safety, health care, job conditions, and other social issues that affect its members. With a membership of over 350,000, ACORN is organized into more than 850 neighborhood chapters in over 100 cities across the United States, as well as in Argentina, Canada, Mexico, and Peru.

They're not a big deal.

 

[HylianTom]

Wow, I am starting to see a lot of desperation stemming from both sides of the camp now, not the actual politicians mind you, the voters. Seems like the people who want Obama REALLY don't want McCain, and those who want McCain REEEEEAAAAAAAAALLY fucking REEAAAAAALLLY don't want Obama to be president.

That makes me wonder, I hear all these young punks saying they're going to move to Europe or Canada if McCain is elected president, what do you think all these McCain supporters are going to do if (and even I am kinda hoping it happens) Obama is elected?

You joke, but I'm hearing Montana more than you'd think. But you're right.. many of the more subtly-racist older folks around here are experiencing a range of negative emotion right now. You can watch the stages of grief over at FreeRepublic, and the despair in the air from the anti-Obama people around me is pretty thick.

Like chicken soup for the liberal's soul. :lol

 

[Vestal]

BTW Nate also has some new commentary up, and an Interesting poll from West Virigina.

 

[mj1108]

Olbermann just mentioned Obama bought time on ABC too.... So that makes NBC, CBS, Fox (if there's no World Series) and ABC.....

 

[Jenga]

Will there be a separate thread Election Day for the people who want to tell the entire world who they voted for? I'd hate to see the PoliGAF thread bogged down by hundreds of "+1 Obama/McCain" posts.


Oh man...the Election Day thread is going to be the greatest thread in the history of GAF, hands down. Once the polls start coming in there'll be more than 100 posts a minute. :lol

It'd be even greater should Obama lose. biggest meltdown of all time