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[TDG]

Are you kidding? The only reason why Germany didn't win is because they rushed the invasion of Russia. If Hitler had decided had taken over England or had Hitler actually properly equiped his troops Russia would be gone. The Russian Machine takes a long time to start up, but you can stop it before it is unstoppable.

Even if Germany were to "beat" Russia, which strikes me as near impossible, there's no chance that they could've controlled the country for any extended amount of time. Germany had majhor problems with guerilla fighters in Yugoslavia. Imagine that times 10, with their troops spread far thinner. That's the kind of deep shit they'd be in in Russia.

Germany was not laughable. Huge industrial power. They came back quick and strong after WWI. They had the jet planes at the end of WWII but they were fighting a losing battle then.

Germany's power was not laughable. The idea that they could succesfully conquer and control a country over 10 times bigger than them is laughable.

 

[Xeke]

I can't even fathom how many years we'd be behind in technology if not for WWII.

 

[agrajag]

I shouldn't be surprised at this point but the things I've been getting in the mail are surprising me.

http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr355/the_joint_64/obama1.jpg

Putin has such a dignified look on his face. Chavez is like

 

[Stinkles]

For this joke to work, shouldn't "BMW" be "Volkswagon?"

No. Nobody is genuinely excited about driving a VW.

Anyway, don't ruin my gag. I laughed at your pile of secrets.

 

[hokahey]

GAF -


I post at a message board here in Missouri that is hosted by the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, the main paper for all of eastern Missouri.

There is a section on the board there called "Current Affairs" that is rife with back and forth political discussion.

Recently, it has been almost completely taken over by McCain supporters smearing Obama.

Unfortunately, there are a number of undecided voters that visit that board and I am seeing a trend of them starting to doubt Obama.

Point being, if you've got some free time you should pop over there and school some of these morans. I can't type fast enough to even keep up with the threads.

Fight the good fight for a battleground state! (or just expose these rednecks as the idiots they are):

http://www.stltoday.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=6

Registration is immediate.

 

[rSpooky]

Any protesters? Also nice pictures.

I didn't see any. But that dude selling play cards with Obama as the joker that was on one of the movies linked here of those crazy nuts. HE was there selling cards where bush was the joker :lol

Again I want to emphasize the great atmosphere and positive attitude at the rally, even with the heat, people fainting etc. People were in a great mood.
Thanks for the compliment on the pics I have about 40 of them, I had tons more but picked the best ones to keep

 

[AndresON777]

What do you call taking someone against their will and making them do a job for you?

"Slavery" is a kind word for what the military draft is, considering the whole killing and dying by the master's command thing.



Third worst President in American History.

Man, you just love authoritarian warmongerers. Are you sure you don't like President Bush? Or does he just not go far enough for you?

Great post man.

 

[Fox318]

GAF -


I post at a message board here in Missouri that is hosted by the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, the main paper for all of eastern Missouri.

There is a section on the board there called "Current Affairs" that is rife with back and forth political discussion.

Recently, it has been almost completely taken over by McCain supporters smearing Obama.

Unfortunately, there are a number of undecided voters that visit that board and I am seeing a trend of them starting to doubt Obama.

Point being, if you've got some free time you should pop over there and school some of these morans. I can't type fast enough to even keep up with the threads.

Fight the good fight for a battleground state! (or just expose these rednecks as the idiots they are):

http://www.stltoday.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=6

Registration is immediate.

I just found this on that site lol

 

[JayDubya]

No. Nobody is genuinely excited about driving a VW.

Anyway, don't ruin my gag. I laughed at your pile of secrets.

:lol

Well, I suppose that's also part of the gag, that Germany conquered Britain and everyone else, so a BMW is a "German" Car.

 

[TDG]

Although if France had listened to him WWII would have never happened.

Exactly. Tp be quite honest, his 14 points plan was brilliant, though idealistic. The problem is that he didn't just fail to get it enacted, he didn't even get part of it enacted. He compromised his first 13 points to get the League of Nations formed, and then couldn't convince Americans to join the League of Nations, which led to its' failure. He had the foresight, but he wasn't able to do anything, which essentially makes him a failure.

 

[hokahey]

I just found this on that site lol

Yeah, there's definitely a contingent of Obama supporters on there, but lately they're being drowned out. I thought it might be worth a shot to call on some GAF reinforcements.

 

[The Blue Jihad]

People are getting bored of her, quick, get a stylist. Maybe people will like her again.

Jim
Moderator
(Today, 05:00 PM)

But Mr. Lehrer, I thought you were supposed to be impartial?

 

[Fox318]

Putin has such a dignified look on his face. Chavez is like

Why is Putin there? W. was with him at his ranch.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

anyone see mccain say "he is a decent person, and not someone you should be afraid of in the whitehouse"?

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

I shouldn't be surprised at this point but the things I've been getting in the mail are surprising me.

http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr355/the_joint_64/obama1.jpg

So tiny.

Not talking to the enemy is such a stupid foreign policy. I can't recall a single situation that has been resolved using this method. Hell, if anything it usually makes matters worse.

Yet some will buy into this. smh.

 

[numble]

Oh good. Another session of "Fluff the libertarian ego".

This.

 

[wartime1020]

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/todays-polls-1010.html

 

[The Librarian]

What do you call taking someone against their will and making them do a job for you?

Forced labor? Yes that is an aspect of slavery, but slavery involves owning a slave; the government does not own you. If you choose not to go along with a draft, aren't you thrown in jail?

Really?

You're 16, do you think that if in two years you were forced to go and fight against your will in the military, and possibly die, that wouldn't be a worse form of (temporary, or life-ending) slavery?

Don't I have to sign up for something in order to be eligible for a draft? And worst form of slavery? I'm sure that blacks were treated far worse in the days of slavery in the U.S.

 

[EviLore]

JD: You're POTUS as of December 8, 1941. What do you do?

 

[Shiggie]

anyone see mccain say "he is a decent person, and not someone you should be afraid of in the whitehouse"?

Hes starting to feel she shit drip down from the fan into his mouth.

 

[Hitokage]

JD: You're POTUS as of December 8, 1941. What do you do?

Abolish the federal reserve and watch things instantly get better!

 

[Fox318]

Even if Germany were to "beat" Russia, which strikes me as near impossible, there's no chance that they could've controlled the country for any extended amount of time. Germany had majhor problems with guerilla fighters in Yugoslavia. Imagine that times 10, with their troops spread far thinner. That's the kind of deep shit they'd be in in Russia.

If Finland can beat Russia then Germany surly could have taken over Russia. The only reason why the Russians didn't fight with the Nazis after the way Stalin had been treating his people is because Hitler treated them worse. If Hitler didn't have such a hatred of the Russians Germany could have just used Russian citizens.

 

[TDG]

And worst form of slavery? I'm sure that blacks were treated far worse in the days of slavery in the U.S.

I'm pretty sure that black slaves weren't forced to spend their days in dirty, muddy, disease filled trenches, getting small food rations and dealing with the daily threats of artillery fire and chemical weapons, and then when their time came being forced to blindly charge into no man's land to be quickly gunned down my machine gun fire.

 

[The Lamonster]

GAF -


I post at a message board here in Missouri that is hosted by the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, the main paper for all of eastern Missouri.

There is a section on the board there called "Current Affairs" that is rife with back and forth political discussion.

Recently, it has been almost completely taken over by McCain supporters smearing Obama.

Unfortunately, there are a number of undecided voters that visit that board and I am seeing a trend of them starting to doubt Obama.

Point being, if you've got some free time you should pop over there and school some of these morans. I can't type fast enough to even keep up with the threads.

Fight the good fight for a battleground state! (or just expose these rednecks as the idiots they are):

http://www.stltoday.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=6

Registration is immediate.

Do you live in St. Louis? I do.

I stay far away from www.stltoday.com, it's a fucking mess, especially the forums.

 

[Zoe]

Don't I have to sign up for something in order to be eligible for a draft?

As a male, you are required to register with the service once you turn 18.

 

[JayDubya]

JD: You're POTUS as of December 8, 1941. What do you do?

What needed to be done differently preceded that date.

Once the "Day that will live in infamy" arrived, you of course declare war on Japan. Japan's allies are obligated to to declare war on you.

A few major differences spring to mind immediately as horrific and inappropriate: Japanese Internment Camps, Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki.

 

[Xeke]

What do you call taking someone against their will and making them do a job for you?

"Slavery" is a kind word for what the military draft is, considering the whole killing and dying by the master's command thing.

Holy shit. Yes let's compare the thought that an entire race is only worth 3/5 of a human being. The idea that an entire race is inferior and has no future but slavery.

Please point me to a time in history where any significant number of people viewed our own soldiers as less than human. Please try to convince me that Johnson believed that the soldiers being drafted were less than human and there was no issue with any of them dying.

 

[TDG]

If Finland can beat Russia then Germany surly could have taken over Russia.

There must be a hole in my historic knowledge: when was Finland able to invade and take over Russia?

What needed to be done differently preceded that date.

Once the "Day that will live in infamy" arrived, you of course declare war on Japan. Japan's allies are obligated to to declare war on you.

A few major differences spring to mind immediately as horrific and inappropriate: Japanese Internment Camps, Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki.

Man, JayDubya, I spend a good deal of time chuckling at your opinions about how government should work. Why do we completely agree about FDR's handling of WWII? This is madness!

 

[GhaleonEB]

Two Obama response ads up:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Obama_Lose.html?showall

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Obama_False_Ads.html?showall

The second one is noteworthy because it features Biden as the narrator. I'm guessing his favorability rating is high enough that they're going to be leveraging him more like this.

And fivethirtyeight has Obama at his all-time high right now.

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

What needed to be done differently preceded that date.

Once the "Day that will live in infamy" arrived, you of course declare war on Japan. Japan's allies are obligated to to declare war on you.

A few major differences spring to mind immediately as horrific and inappropriate: Japanese Internment Camps, Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki.

"Day that will live in infamy" indeed. IAWTP.

Never thought I'd say that to you, JD. Well done.

 

[Fox318]

What needed to be done differently preceded that date.

Hiroshima, Nagasaki.

The mainland invasion of Japan would have cost more lives than Hiroshima did. Japan never would have surrendered. The only reason I'm here today is because of those bombs. My grandfather would have flown over in the first wave and chance are he would have been dead.

Nagasaki is a little trickier to defend with Japan considering surrender and Russia invading.

 

[JayDubya]

Holy shit. Yes let's compare the thought that an entire race is only worth 3/5 of a human being. The idea that an entire race is inferior and has no future but slavery.

Please point me to a time in history where any significant number of people viewed our own soldiers as less than human. Please try to convince me that Johnson believed that the soldiers being drafted were less than human and there was no issue with any of them dying.

Military conscription is more similar to slave labor than it isn't.

 

[ViperVisor]

JD: You're POTUS as of December 8, 1941. What do you do?

Invade South Africa because were setting civilization back a thousand years or so and we need gold. Then to keep things going more invasions to get more gold when we exhaust the easy supply or we collapse.

 

[The Librarian]

I'm pretty sure that black slaves weren't forced to spend their days in dirty, muddy, disease filled trenches, getting small food rations and dealing with the daily threats of artillery fire and chemical weapons, and then when their time came being forced to blindly charge into no man's land to be quickly gunned down my machine gun fire.

I guess, but blacks probably didn't have the best health care either, and a lot were beaten on a regular basis, were barely given enough to survive through the next day, forced to mate... but the forced labor camps in Nazi Germany were worse than both types of "slavery" we are describing right now.

 

[gkryhewy]

What needed to be done differently preceded that date.

Once the "Day that will live in infamy" arrived, you of course declare war on Japan. Japan's allies are obligated to to declare war on you.

A few major differences spring to mind immediately as horrific and inappropriate: Japanese Internment Camps, Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki.

Nagasaki in particular is perhaps the greatest shame in the history of the united states.

 

[numble]

From 538's experience at a Palin rally in Ohio.
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/on-road-dueling-rallies-ohio.html

 

[JayDubya]

The mainland invasion of Japan would have cost more lives than Hiroshima did. Japan never would have surrendered. The only reason I'm here today is because of those bombs. My grandfather would have flown over in the first wave and chance are he would have been dead.

Nagasaki is a little trickier to defend with Japan considering surrender and Russia invading.

It's not the development of the atom bomb I take issue with, its possession, or even its use. My issue with Hiroshima and Nagasaki as targets is that the bomb was used to deliberately target civilians and do as much "psychological damage" as possible.

Wreaks of terrorism to me, only when the "good guys" do it, it's okay.

 

[TDG]

Japan never would have surrendered.

Sure they would have. In fact, the USG had recieved reports that Japan was willing to surrender, but not unconditionally. Washington was demanding unconditional surrender, but the Japanese wanted assurance that their Emperor would not be harmed. The USG wasn't willing to do this, which is why the Japanese were so resistant to the idea of surrendering.

 

[Tamanon]

From 538's experience at a Palin rally in Ohio.

Isn't that something she'd want to shoot down early?

 

[The Librarian]

From 538's experience at a Palin rally in Ohio.
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/on-road-dueling-rallies-ohio.html

Oh god...:lol

 

[hokahey]

Do you live in St. Louis? I do.

I stay far away from www.stltoday.com, it's a fucking mess, especially the forums.

I live in St. Charles county to the west, which I'm sure you know.

Yes the forum is a mess, but A LOT of people post there, and there are a lot of people on there that seem willing to be influenced by the general sentiment of the board.

 

[Xeke]

Military conscription is more similar to slave labor than it isn't.

I don't agree with the draft but it's not even comparable. The effects of the draft on society aren't even in the same realm as slavery. Military drafts and slavery have both existed throughout history but US slavery was a different breed. The Roman slaves weren't viewed as 3/5's of a person.

US slavery was monstrous.

 

[Fox318]

Nagasaki in particular is perhaps the greatest shame in the history of the united states.

Because that thing called Slavery, the civil war, and race in America was a cakewalk.

 

[numble]

Oh god...:lol

It's gotcha numbers!

 

[Stinkles]

It's not the development of the atom bomb I take issue with, it's how it was used to deliberately target civilians and do as much "psychological damage" as possible.

Wreaks of terrorism to me, only when the "good guys" do it, it's okay.

We are lucky, in a way that Japanese adherence to Bushido and other aspects of their philosophy, allowed them to accept a "beating" and move on.

I can't think of a Western country that would be so forgiving.

 

[Frester]

Germany's power was not laughable. The idea that they could succesfully conquer and control a country over 10 times bigger than them is laughable.

What's laughable is that Hitler was a corporal. And he didn't rush invading Russia, it was delayed by 6 weeks ('cause Mussolini fucked up and needed help), which was enough time for the winter to start coming on and really hurt the army.

 

[Hitokage]

It's not the development of the atom bomb I take issue with, it's how it was used to deliberately target civilians and do as much "psychological damage" as possible.

The japanese either deliberately mixed military and civilian interests or simply didn't differentiate between the two. Of course, this doesn't excuse stuff like firebombing, but even if you tried extra hard to take out only military targets then you'd still have killed a huge number of civilians.

 

[TDG]

I guess, but blacks probably didn't have the best health care either, and a lot were beaten on a regular basis, were barely given enough to survive through the next day, forced to mate... but the forced labor camps in Nazi Germany were worse than both types of "slavery" we are describing right now.

Health care doesn't matter much when you're dead. I'm also fairly sure that black slaves were fed better than WWI soldiers, since their masters wanted to insure that they'd stay big and strong.

And of course, the Nazi labor camps were far worse, but that's not really related to the draft during WWI.

 

[DeadTrees]

Internets gossip:

So I hear (via a prominent member of the sane Republican faction) that the word on the right side of the street is that the Republican National Committee is about to pull the plug on its joint ads with the McCain campaign, and devote its resources instead to trying to save a couple of the senators who are at serious risk of losing their seats.

Well, if it weren't for Vietnam, Lyndon Johnson would have been one of our best.

Yeah, and Jeffrey Dahmer was a nice guy, once you got past his occasional need to kill people.

 

[Hitokage]

Sure they would have. In fact, the USG had recieved reports that Japan was willing to surrender, but not unconditionally. Washington was demanding unconditional surrender, but the Japanese wanted assurance that their Emperor would not be harmed. The USG wasn't willing to do this, which is why the Japanese were so resistant to the idea of surrendering.

Japanese leadership was split near the end of the war between the faction of WE WILL FIGHT TO THE LAST MAN, WOMAN, AND CHILD and the faction of WTF ARE YOU INSANE?. Unfortunately, efforts to seek out a surrender originally wanted to do so with a strong ally, particularly Russia, which didn't really work out.

It's interesting to note that when the Japanese eventually did surrender, there was an attempted coup d'etat by people who thought the emperor needed to be saved from himself.