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PoliGAF 2nd Pres. Debate 2008 Thread (DOW dropping, Biden is off to Home Depot)

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M

mj1108

Member
Diablos said:
Why is everyone freaking out about the Gallups?

It should be no surprise that the race will tighten as the election draws closer. Pay attention to state-by-state polling.
Click to expand...

I don't see anyone freaking out over the Gallups?
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
GhaleonEB said:
Kos does a spot-on call out of the media for fudging their electoral maps. Washington post:

  • Obama +13.8%: Battleground state (PA)
  • Obama +10.4%: Battleground state (NH)
  • Obama +10.0%: Battleground state (NJ)
  • Obama +9.5%: Battleground state (IA)
  • Obama +9.0%: Battleground state (OR)
  • Obama +8.2%: Battleground state (MN)
  • Obama +8.2%: Battleground state (MI)
  • Obama +8.8%: Battleground state (WI)
  • Obama +7.3%: Battleground state (NM)
  • McCain +6.8%: Leaning Republican (GA)
  • Obama +5.1%: Battleground state (VA)
  • Obama +4.0%: Battleground state (CO)
  • McCain +3.8%: Leaning Republican (IN)
  • Obama +3.5%: Battleground state (OH)
  • Obama +3.1%: Battleground state (FL)
  • Obama +3.0%: Battleground state (NV)
  • McCain +2.2%: Leaning Republican (WV)




If Chuck Todd doesn't update his map to have Obama over 270 tomorrow, then I'll be pretty diappointed in him; it will be for the sole reason that he doesn't want Obama over 270 rather than the numbers.
Click to expand...

Yeah the love for Chuck Todd internet wise will fall on the fact if he is more interested in the truth of numbers or media hype.

Hell the reason he got popular is because he let the numbers tell the truth when nobody else on TV would.
 
H

HylianTom

Banned
GhaleonEB said:
If Chuck Todd doesn't update his map to have Obama over 270 tomorrow, then I'll be pretty diappointed in him; it will be for the sole reason that he doesn't want Obama over 270 rather than the numbers.
Click to expand...

The kicker: we'll get to see Todd, Brokaw, Couric, Hume and all of the other pundits acting surprised when Obama does actually win by those margins on Election Day. It's going to be fun to watch and see that their acting skills are as lacking as their reporting skills.
 
K

kkaabboomm

Member
GhaleonEB said:
Kos does a spot-on call out of the media for fudging their electoral maps. Washington post:

  • Obama +13.8%: Battleground state (PA)
  • Obama +10.4%: Battleground state (NH)
  • Obama +10.0%: Battleground state (NJ)
  • Obama +9.5%: Battleground state (IA)
  • Obama +9.0%: Battleground state (OR)
  • Obama +8.2%: Battleground state (MN)
  • Obama +8.2%: Battleground state (MI)
  • Obama +8.8%: Battleground state (WI)
  • Obama +7.3%: Battleground state (NM)
  • McCain +6.8%: Leaning Republican (GA)
  • Obama +5.1%: Battleground state (VA)
  • Obama +4.0%: Battleground state (CO)
  • McCain +3.8%: Leaning Republican (IN)
  • Obama +3.5%: Battleground state (OH)
  • Obama +3.1%: Battleground state (FL)
  • Obama +3.0%: Battleground state (NV)
  • McCain +2.2%: Leaning Republican (WV)

If Chuck Todd doesn't update his map to have Obama over 270 tomorrow, then I'll be pretty diappointed in him; it will be for the sole reason that he doesn't want Obama over 270 rather than the numbers.
Click to expand...

just fyi, kos DOES link to chris bowers over at openleft.com, who also cites a commentator which sparked his interest in the matter, and the bowers post was what led me to wonder about chuck todd updating his map tomorrow possibly.

so it wasn't kos who calls out the media here, he just kind of runs with the 2 chris bowers posts. credit where credit due.

with that outta the way, i still 100% agree with the criticism. either virginia or colorado SHOULD be moved to lean obama.
 
Haunted

Haunted

Member
GhaleonEB said:
Kos does a spot-on call out of the media for fudging their electoral maps. Washington post:

  • Obama +13.8%: Battleground state (PA)
  • Obama +10.4%: Battleground state (NH)
  • Obama +10.0%: Battleground state (NJ)
  • Obama +9.5%: Battleground state (IA)
  • Obama +9.0%: Battleground state (OR)
  • Obama +8.2%: Battleground state (MN)
  • Obama +8.2%: Battleground state (MI)
  • Obama +8.8%: Battleground state (WI)
  • Obama +7.3%: Battleground state (NM)
  • McCain +6.8%: Leaning Republican (GA)
  • Obama +5.1%: Battleground state (VA)
  • Obama +4.0%: Battleground state (CO)
  • McCain +3.8%: Leaning Republican (IN)
  • Obama +3.5%: Battleground state (OH)
  • Obama +3.1%: Battleground state (FL)
  • Obama +3.0%: Battleground state (NV)
  • McCain +2.2%: Leaning Republican (WV)




If Chuck Todd doesn't update his map to have Obama over 270 tomorrow, then I'll be pretty diappointed in him; it will be for the sole reason that he doesn't want Obama over 270 rather than the numbers.
Click to expand...
Damn that liberal media trying to keep the race close, just so Obama supporters are energised and voter turnout is higher than expected. It's a consipracy!
emot-argh.gif
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
GhaleonEB said:
Kos does a spot-on call out of the media for fudging their electoral maps. Washington post:

  • Obama +13.8%: Battleground state (PA)
  • Obama +10.4%: Battleground state (NH)
  • Obama +10.0%: Battleground state (NJ)
  • Obama +9.5%: Battleground state (IA)
  • Obama +9.0%: Battleground state (OR)
  • Obama +8.2%: Battleground state (MN)
  • Obama +8.2%: Battleground state (MI)
  • Obama +8.8%: Battleground state (WI)
  • Obama +7.3%: Battleground state (NM)
  • McCain +6.8%: Leaning Republican (GA)
  • Obama +5.1%: Battleground state (VA)
  • Obama +4.0%: Battleground state (CO)
  • McCain +3.8%: Leaning Republican (IN)
  • Obama +3.5%: Battleground state (OH)
  • Obama +3.1%: Battleground state (FL)
  • Obama +3.0%: Battleground state (NV)
  • McCain +2.2%: Leaning Republican (WV)




If Chuck Todd doesn't update his map to have Obama over 270 tomorrow, then I'll be pretty diappointed in him; it will be for the sole reason that he doesn't want Obama over 270 rather than the numbers.
Click to expand...
Cool.
 
C

Cheebs

Member
PD asked me to post this for him:
"We could lose, I suppose, if they cheat us out of it" and Other Tales of Republican Delusion
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/12/83238/044/321/628179

Every four years the republican party attacks the democratic nominee as "out of touch" with "mainstream America." This strategy has been pretty effective (outside of Clinton) and now is being used more than it ever has. I don't have cable but I've been watching some Fox News online, and listening to some right wing radio. It's pretty clear that the GOP is readying itself for a blowout loss and plans on accusing the democrats of fraud. Afterall as the article says, if the country is truly pre-dominantly conservative, the victory of the "most liberal senator in the country" would seem like an outlier occurrence.

It's a shame the Obama campaign hasn't taken an aggressive, factual stance against the anti-Acorn hysteria being propagated by Fox and the McCain campaign. As Ben Smith points out

The key distinction here is between voter fraud and voter registration fraud, one of which is truly dangerous, the other a petty crime.

The former would be, say, voting the cemeteries or stuffing the ballot boxes. This has happened occasionally in American history, though I can think of recent instances only in rare local races. Practically speaking, this can most easily be done by whoever is actually administering the election, which is why partisan observers carefully oversee the vote-counting process.

The latter is putting the names of fake voters on the rolls, something that happens primarily when organizations, like Acorn, pay contractors for new voter registrations. That can be a crime, and it messes up the voter files, but there's virtually no evidence these imaginary people then vote in November. The current stories about Acorn don't even allege a plan to affect the November vote.
Click to expand...

I can register to vote 100 times but my vote will only be counted once. I can register Micky Mouse to vote, but since he doesn't exist he cannot physically vote. Such a simple exercise of critical thinking right?

When I was homeschooled my history book described Bill Clinton's presidency as a moral/social dark spot in American history, but this was prefaced by arguments that Clinton squeaked into office thanks to third party votes; after all, as the author argued, Clinton failed to receive 50% of the vote, therefore he really wasn't the dominant choice of most Americans. Interestingly this was an older history book, and didn't cover the 2000 elections; I wonder what it would have to say about Gore's popular vote victory. Clinton won the popular vote by a good margin, but it was a pretty convincing blowout in terms of what matters: the electoral vote.

If Obama pulls off a 330-360 EC thubbin' I wonder what the spin will be

1. John McCain ran a horrible campaign and wasn't a true conservative. If he told the American people about Wright he would have won
2. Obama benefited from voter fraud in every battleground state
3. Christian Conservatives stayed home like in 2000. If they came out in full force like in 2004, McCain would have won

Hm, I'm going to pull a Palin and choose all of the above
Click to expand...
 
G

Gigglepoo

Member
reilo said:
Got an idea for a parody attack ad against McCain. It's a little out there and probably something we shouldn't make fun of, but hey, what the hell:

Associate him with conspiring with the VietCong. He was a guest in their home for 5 1/2 years, was given food and shelter by them, and so forth. "Prisoner of War" or "Volunteer Prisoner?" You decide.

It would basically point out the idiocy in these RNC attack ads.
Click to expand...

Wow, I was actually talking about the same thing just yesterday. He was captured by the Cong so he wouldn't have to fight his allies, right? It's fun making stuff up!
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
Frank the Great said:
Anybody need a hit of hopium after today's Gallup?

Here, we, goo!

Today:
http://i35.tinypic.com/vgnaxu.jpg

Same day in 2004:
[IMG]http://i36.tinypic.com/jtufx3.jpg

[IMG]http://www.identa.biz/images/injection2.jpg[/QUOTE]
If you inject yourself with enough Hopium, you will be able to fly!!!!
Click to expand...
 
V

Vennt

Unconfirmed Member
He participated in the fatal derailing of a thread on the gaming side, he won't be back for the election, and next person(s) to post "for him" will join him.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
The difference is shocking between 2004 and 2008.

You can almost taste the victory :D

For the record, if the MSM wants to continue to call all these heavily leaning Obama states as "Battlegrounds", they can go right the fuck ahead. I don't want anyone lulled into a false sense of security anyhow, I want to tsunami this motherfucking election.
 
F

Frank the Great

Banned
Amir0x said:
The difference is shocking between 2004 and 2008.

You can almost taste the victory :D

For the record, if the MSM wants to continue to call all these heavily leaning Obama states as "Battlegrounds", they can go right the fuck ahead. I don't want anyone lulled into a false sense of security anyhow, I want to tsunami this motherfucking election.
Click to expand...

What's amazing is that 2004 map I posted is pretty much exactly how the election turned out, apart from IA and NV. All those "barely Kerry" states were actually barely won by Kerry.

And I agree, I fucking HOPE that we go into the election with the MSM thinking it is close. I want the headlines to be "UNEXPECTED BLOWOUT: MANDATE FOR CHANGE" or some shit. I want no room for error or bitching, I want a clear, unexpected landslide that will make racists shit themselves.
 
R

Regulus Tera

Romanes Eunt Domus
Frank the Great said:
Anybody need a hit of hopium after today's Gallup?

Here, we, goo!

Today:

Same day in 2004:
Click to expand...

Foreigner with a question: why is the Midwest predominantly red?

I guess I could find it on Wikipedia but I are teh lazies.
 
F

Fatalah

Member
I donated another 10 bucks today to the Obama campaign. Seeing all the hateful McCain supporters with Palin instigating all of it really bothers me. The fact that she's unapologetic is even worse.

Just so ya'll know, if you donate any amount through this woman's MY-Bama page, she'll give you a 15%-off coupon code for the merch store!

http://my.barackobama.com/page/event/detail/fundraising/4v7c

Lastly-- I finally joined NeoGaf Obama group! I'm not ready to get complacent about this election, so don't laugh at me for being proactive!
 
T

thefit

Member
McCain getting Rescoed too bad no one cares.

http://www.montereyherald.com/ci_10703347?nclick_check=1

McCain aided developer's bargain-price purchase of Fort Ord land
Developer/friend bought SunBay site for mere $250,000
By JULIA REYNOLDS
Herald Staff Writer
Article Last Updated: 10/12/2008 01:34:41 AM PDT

An Arizona businessman with help from Sen. John McCain's office paid the federal government a mere fraction of the market value when he bought a Fort Ord land parcel in 1999, an Army appraisal obtained by The Herald shows.

Donald R. Diamond, an 80-year-old real estate developer, lobbyist and top fundraiser for McCain's presidential campaign, bought the land for $250,000, though it was valued at $7.2 million, according to Pentagon appraisals made three years before the sale.

He held on to the parcel for a little more than two years before selling it and the buildings on it for an estimated profit of more than $18 million.

When negotiating with the Army over the no-bid sale, Diamond had more than one advantage on other potential buyers. He held a lease on the land that would have made it difficult for the Army to find another buyer. When Rep. Sam Farr, D-Carmel, later criticized the Army for "giving away" Fort Ord land during the 1990s, Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Army Paul "PJ" Johnson said, "That was a very complicated realignment and closure at Fort Ord."

But it was McCain's office, as reported earlier this year by The New York Times and The Herald, that Diamond credited with helping smooth out problems he encountered. At the time, McCain served on the Senate Armed Services Committee.

The appraisal documents were obtained under a Freedom of Information Act request. Diamond and McCain's Senate office declined to comment for this story.
Click to expand...

The documents are at the link.
 
F

Frank the Great

Banned
Regulus Tera said:
Foreigner with a question: why is the Midwest prevalently red?

I guess I could find it on Wikipedia but I are teh lazies.
Click to expand...

Basically, no one lives there. Even in solidly blue states, the rural areas are usually Republican. In the midwest, there are only rural areas.
 
X

XxenobladerxX

Member
No way in hell WV is turning blue this year. But it really funny to see it competitive.:D

I'm pretty sure Falin is or was going to hold an event there. :lol
 
M

mj1108

Member
XxenobladerxX said:
No way in hell WV is turning blue this year. But it really funny to see it competitive.:D

I'm pretty sure Falin is or was going to hold an event there. :lol
Click to expand...

I was just going to comment on WV.... It certainly could be leaning Dem...as 538 had WV has leaning Rep just a few days ago (to everyone's surprise).
 
Nabs

Nabs

Member
C-Span is going to reair the Biden / Clinton rally now. I wish I could fast foward... might just wait for the online stream.

They just had one of the higher ups from ACORN explaining their part, saying that most of the fake registrations were flagged by their own staff (est. 90%)
 
T

TreIII

Member
Amir0x said:
The difference is shocking between 2004 and 2008.

You can almost taste the victory :D

For the record, if the MSM wants to continue to call all these heavily leaning Obama states as "Battlegrounds", they can go right the fuck ahead. I don't want anyone lulled into a false sense of security anyhow, I want to tsunami this motherfucking election.
Click to expand...

Preach.

The higher the margin of decisive victory, the sweeter it will be.

...and, ideally, the more it will drive a stake through the heart of the GOP. The GOP of this day and age shouldn't have ANY place in this era, imo.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
thekad said:
Palin :lol

She promised to balance the budget in the first term.
Click to expand...
Well, it will be easy . . . she'll just reduce that oil dividend check that we all get. :lol




Seriously, she has no idea what she is talking about . . . she comes from a state that gives money to its people and gets huge subsidies from the lower 48.
 
T

thefit

Member
Nabs said:
C-Span is going to reair the Biden / Clinton rally now. I wish I could fast foward... might just wait for the online stream.

They just had one of the higher ups from ACORN explaining their part, saying that most of the fake registrations were flagged by their own staff (est. 90%)
Click to expand...

I though this was common knowledge. The Bush administration has been trying to bring down ACORN from day one, that's what the firing of the US Attorneys scandal stems from, Iglesias would not prosecute them because he did a thorough investigation that found no wrong doing, Bush co. did not like that and rather than try to push career attorneys to do their bidding they decided to push out the ones that would not.

ACORN flags the bogus names but under law all names including the bad ones have to be turned in as a matter of record, so the feds raid ACORN and they find all these flagged bogus names and claim they have something when in fact its just ACORN doing their job. Nice set-up eh?
 
S

Slurpy

*drowns in jizz*
The goal is not simply winning anymore- it should be the get the largest margin possible, and therefore the biggest mandate possible. We know what the GOP narratives will be after the Obama win, they will try to discredit it at all costs. Thats why it needs to be as large a landslide as possible, to expose all their bullshit arguments are the transparent trash that they are. The larger the mandate is, the more effective Obama's presidency can potentially be.
 
F

Frank the Great

Banned
Slurpy said:
The goal is not simply winning anymore- it should be the get the largest margin possible, and therefore the biggest mandate possible. We know what the GOP narratives will be after the Obama win, they will try to discredit it at all costs. Thats why it needs to be as large a landslide as possible, to expose all their bullshit arguments are the transparent trash that they are. The larger the mandate is, the more effective Obama's presidency can potentially be.
Click to expand...

Electoral mandates are actually a really shitty, divisive part of our politics. Part of me wishes Obama would come out and claim a mandate, but the other part hopes he would rise above that bullshit. Fact is, even if Obama does win 350+ EVs, he'll only win a few percentage points more than McCain in the popular vote.

I don't know, I'm conflicted about the issue. It's one of those things where I hate the concept, but I won't mind if it applies to my side :lol
 
W

worldrunover

Member
speculawyer said:
West Virginia? Are you shitting me?
Click to expand...

This. There's NO WAY he wins WV, I'm sorry, it's just not happening.


Hey, let's play a game! Here we make predictions on certain states:

Red state no one is talking about that would be shocking to go blue but just might: Montana. I feel like he has a big following there and a dem governor and dem senator helps things.

Swing state most likely to fall victim to the 'Bradley Effect': North Carolina. See: Guy who won't let Obama supporters park in his lot.

Blue state that may just swing red on election night: Iowa Shhhh. Just keep telling McCain this.

If Obama loses, it's going to be this state's fault: Ohio. Somehow I just don't trust the Buckeye state...

Post your own!
 
D

devilhawk

Member
Frank the Great said:
Basically, no one lives there. Even in solidly blue states, the rural areas are usually Republican. In the midwest, there are only rural areas.
Click to expand...
And the midwest has smaller cities and cities with bigger suburban areas than urban cores. The plains states have been republican even through the Great depression. There is a strong religious tie as well as many single issue voters. The 'cities' have a lot of educated, wealthy, white people with the traditional family structure and a white picket fence house - they have traditionally voted republican. It is becoming a lot more moderate in recent years though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Republican_Party#Voter_base
 
T

Trurl

Banned
worldrunover said:
If Obama loses, it's going to be this state's fault: Ohio. Somehow I just don't trust the Buckeye state...
Click to expand...
I never get why Ohio gets the blame. Why wouldn't it be Virginia's fault? Or Colorado's fault? Or any other state that would need to go red for Obama to lose? A lot more has to go wrong than just Ohio for Obama to lose the election.
 
T

Tyrone Slothrop

Banned
worldrunover said:
Red state no one is talking about that would be shocking to go blue but just might: Montana. I feel like he has a big following there and a dem governor and dem senator helps things.
Click to expand...

i thought it might for awhile. but from what i've seen, it won't. it's kind of weird because it's one of those states that seemed to get redder after the economic meltdown.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Trurl said:
I never get why Ohio gets the blame. Why wouldn't it be Virginia's fault? Or Colorado's fault? Or any other state that would need to go red for Obama to lose? A lot more has to go wrong than just Ohio for Obama to lose the election.
Click to expand...
Because we expect more out of you, Ohio. You are the land The Pretenders, Devo, and (I think) The Ohio Players. You are a rust-belt state, not a southern state. Be more like PA and Illinois. I know you can do it. Even Drew Carey abandoned the GOP.
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Trurl said:
I never get why Ohio gets the blame. Why wouldn't it be Virginia's fault? Or Colorado's fault? Or any other state that would need to go red for Obama to lose? A lot more has to go wrong than just Ohio for Obama to lose the election.
Click to expand...
Because Ohio is one of those prototypical "vote with their gut, not with their brain" states. They've been ass-fucked economically for years, and yet still vote republican.
 
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