PoliGAF 2nd Pres. Debate 2008 Thread (DOW dropping, Biden is off to Home Depot)

Status
Not open for further replies.
XxenobladerxX said:
This campaign is a fucking joke..

Also,ENOUGH about the Bradley effect. ENOUGH.
Click to expand...

Seriously McCain's campaign is ridiculous. It's like they just expected to show up and beat Obama. WTF..

It's like they have no central message besides: "Vote for me cos I was a POW and he's inexperienced"

Even Kristol's calling them out..

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/13/opinion/13kristol.html?ref=opinion

It’s time for John McCain to fire his campaign.

He has nothing to lose. His campaign is totally overmatched by Obama’s. The Obama team is well organized, flush with resources, and the candidate and the campaign are in sync. The McCain campaign, once merely problematic, is now close to being out-and-out dysfunctional. Its combination of strategic incoherence and operational incompetence has become toxic. If the race continues over the next three weeks to be a conventional one, McCain is doomed.
Click to expand...
 
Stoney Mason said:
I'll give you credit devilhawk. You hang in the thread and are one of the non-obnoxious conservatives on the board from what I've seen. (I'm fully aware some of the liberals are pretty obnoxious in full disclosure)
Click to expand...
Thanks. If you look at my posts I have said little about McCain at all - positive or negative. I mostly just try and break up the monotony of constant hopium. I've said a bit about conservative ideals, though they aren't really backed by a party at the moment.
 
GhaleonEB said:
WTF. "Unless developments call for some"? I shudder to think what those developments might be. :lol
Click to expand...
I'm sure he'll have some new idea at the debate. Spending freeze? Homeowner bailout?
 
Cloudy said:
I bet we can trace McCain's freefall in the polls to the Couric interview..
Click to expand...

they started collapsing right after McCain had his "fundamentals of the economy are strong" line right as Lehman Brothers declared bankruptcy. When the glib two paragraphy history of this election is written, it will mention that as a turning point.

When in reality it was more the fade of the RNC bounce and the voter's rapid focusing on the issue they were always going to be focusing on, the economy.
 
I guarantee you we haven't seen the end of reverend Wright. It's just a card thats too tempting for the McCain camp NOT to play, especially with the position they're in, and the fact that theres video footage. Regardless of what McCain has said, I guarantee that footage WILL be used in an upcoming ad.
 
BTW, after seeing the grandparents this weekend, I was happy to hear they were voting for Bob Barr. I knew they couldn't be sold on Obama because my grandpa is pretty racist, but at least they don't trust McCain at all. So I'm happy they're going Barr in Florida.:lol
 
Slurpy said:
I guarantee you we haven't seen the end of reverend Wright. It's just a card thats too tempting for the McCain camp NOT to play, especially with the position they're in, and the fact that theres video footage. Regardless of what McCain has said, I guarantee that footage WILL be used in an upcoming ad.
Click to expand...
will probably be run during the commercial breaks of Obama's half hour tv spot.
 
devilhawk said:
Thanks. If you look at my posts I have said little about McCain at all - positive or negative. I mostly just try and break up the monotony of constant hopium. I've said a bit about conservative ideals, though they aren't really backed by a party at the moment.
Click to expand...

I'll give you credit for being a true conservative. You've argued against Obama's policies w/o defending the indefensible (Palin, McCain's cynicism and general GOP hypocrisy)

If Obama does win, I think most reasonable conservatives will warm up to him. He's a pragmatist and a closet centrist. Plus he's not gonna waste money on wars :p
 
Slurpy said:
I guarantee you we haven't seen the end of reverend Wright. It's just a card thats too tempting for the McCain camp NOT to play, especially with the position they're in, and the fact that theres video footage. Regardless of what McCain has said, I guarantee that footage WILL be used in an upcoming ad.
Click to expand...

I personally doubt it. wright has been ruminated on over and over and over again. with ayers and rezko there's still some unknowns, still some water to pump from the well.
 
Cloudy said:
I'll give you credit for being a true conservative. You've argued against Obama's policies w/o defending the indefensible (Palin, McCain's cynicism and general GOP hypocrisy)
Click to expand...
It's good that most here realize that just because I don't agree with Obama on every issue means I am in the sack for McCain. Plus, I don't really find it necessary to be the 501st person to call Palin in idiot every time she does something stupid.

Edit:
If Obama does win, I think most reasonable conservatives will warm up to him. He's a pragmatist and a closet centrist. Plus he's not gonna waste money on wars :p
Click to expand...
I wouldn't be 100% sure on that. I could see us getting into another war with the way the world climate is right now. I don't think he will take us into another Iraq (an unnecessary war if you will), but I could see him taking us into one. Unfortunately, I do feel there is a fair chance that something might become necessary.
 
M3wThr33 said:
WOW
1012_mainchart.png
Click to expand...

Waka waka waka waka...
 
devilhawk said:
It's good that most here realize that just because I don't agree with Obama on every issue means I am in the sack for McCain. Plus, I don't really find it necessary to be the 501st person to call Palin in idiot every time she does something stupid.
Click to expand...
I don't call her an idiot every time she does something stupid. I'd have no time left in the day for that. I save it for her truly "special" moments of stupidity.
 
Tyrone Slothrop said:
i dunno about that. (from what i've seen) they're still going on the experience argument pretty hard. of course, it's ridiculous and hypocritcal, but in their worldview palin is somehow lightyears more experienced than community organizer obama could ever hope to be.
Click to expand...

Exactly, the argument came off as ridiculous and hypocritical to anyone outside of the Republican base. Before, Independents and soft dems were questioning Obama's experience. But once McCain picked Palin, the experience argument pretty much became a wash. Especially considering how old McCain is, the possibility of Palin becoming President is higher than normal. So if McCain thinks Palin is ready on day one, then Obama can't be too far off either in most voter's minds.

Don't get confused with what the McCain campaign wants people to believe and what actually resonates with the majority of the public.

and the women vote thing, IMO that's not exactly why palin was picked. of course it helped but i think mccain wanted to pick up on the momentum of there being a first [fill in demographic here] president/vice president.
Click to expand...

Yeah and just who exactly do you think he was targeting with the "First Woman Vice President!". He wanted to drum up excitement for his campaign but he was targeting women obviously. Remember how the McCain campaign went out of their way to praise Hilary Clinton in July/August? They released several commercials praising Hilary and Palin's first couple of speeches praised Hilary. They finally had to take the Hilary references out of her speech when Palin got booed. :lol But the McCain campaign was very transparent about trying to woo women voters.

They obviously backed away from it when it was apparent that it wasn't working. So they now say, "Oh Palin was just meant to energize the base". But initially she was meant to not only energize the base (social & economic conservatives) but also pull women over the way African Americans have flocked to Obama.

One thing these people don't understand when they try to play identity politics is that the reason black people vote for Obama almost unanimously isn't just because he's black. It's because he's black and qualified. The same thing with Hilary. Women voted for her in large droves because she was a woman and extremely qualified.
 
I'm actually pretty conservative fiscally myself and I don't agree with all of Obama's plans. Thing is, he's just flat-out the better candidate. Obama's no fool and he's not gonna alienate Republicans by rubber-stamping everything the Dems dream up.

That's why he didn't pick Hilary. He doesn't want to owe any favors if he gets elected...
 
Slurpy said:
I guarantee you we haven't seen the end of reverend Wright. It's just a card thats too tempting for the McCain camp NOT to play, especially with the position they're in, and the fact that theres video footage. Regardless of what McCain has said, I guarantee that footage WILL be used in an upcoming ad.
Click to expand...
I agree. Wright will be thier last parting shot, imo, and will be released a week or two before the election for maximum effect(so that Obama theoretically won't have time to repair the damage).

They are still fucked either way.
 
I wouldn't be 100% sure on that. I could see us getting into another war with the way the world climate is right now. I don't think he will take us into another Iraq (an unnecessary war if you will), but I could see him taking us into one. Unfortunately, I do feel there is a fair chance tha't something might become necessary.
Click to expand...

Nah...don't believe his over-aggressive Pakistan rhetoric. He's just doing it so he can't be painted as soft by the Republicans. They don't see how foolish they look arguing against his Pakistan stance and Iran diplomatic stance at the same time :lol

Also he is well-liked and trust me, it'll help with foreign policy. Other governments will be willing to work with him...

If anyone would start a war, it'd be McCain with his saber-rattling. Obama is not a shoot-first guy. Just look at his approach during the economic mess That tells you all you need to know about how they would approach a sudden crisis..
 
Cloudy said:
I'm actually pretty conservative fiscally myself and I don't agree with all of Obama's plans. Thing is, he's just flat-out the better candidate. Obama's no fool and he's not gonna alienate Republicans by rubber-stamping everything the Dems dream up.

That's why he didn't pick Hilary. He doesn't want to owe any favors if he gets elected...
Click to expand...

Or have his Presidency overshadowed by the Clintons...

Or hand the Reps more Clinton based ammo...

Or....
 
Cloudy said:
Nah...don't believe his over-aggressive Pakistan rhetoric. He's just doing it so he can't be painted as soft by the Republicans. They don't see how foolish they look arguing against his Pakistan stance and Iran diplomatic stance at the same time :lol

Also he is well-liked and trust me, it'll help with foreign policy. Other governments will be willing to work with him...

If anyone would start a war, it'd be McCain with his saber-rattling. Obama is not a shoot-first guy. Just look at his approach during the economic mess That tells you all you need to know about how they would approach a sudden crisis..
Click to expand...
Russia prefers Obama. He would be nice.

I believe that Medved and Obama could be friends.
 
Only a few more weeks to see this long race put to a close... I hope Obama knocks it out the park with the last debate.

When is the debate supposed to take place and when is his 30 minute spot airing?
 
Cloudy said:
I'm actually pretty conservative fiscally myself and I don't agree with all of Obama's plans. Thing is, he's just flat-out the better candidate. Obama's no fool and he's not gonna alienate Republicans by rubber-stamping everything the Dems dream up.

That's why he didn't pick Hilary. He doesn't want to owe any favors if he gets elected...
Click to expand...
I hope not. Congressional democrats are more of a worry to me than Obama. Obama has some good ideas, I just think he doesn't always go about it the right way - basic philosophical differences, I suppose.

If he even makes a dent in the energy crisis that is coming up in the next decade, I will have no qualms. This last year was just a blip on the screen of what is coming. Could you imagine what it would be like if the US exported a ton of energy reserves? If it is set up right it could finance solutions to health care, education, etc. It could then liberate the tax payer from excessive government in their lives. It wouldn't exactly be the most libertarian way to go about it though. What if the US would have acres and acres of renewable genetically engineered bacteria formulating biofuels for us that can then be sold without fear of resources. It would only get cheaper as better technology increased yields. Dream, I can.
 
Cloudy said:
Nah...don't believe his over-aggressive Pakistan rhetoric. He's just doing it so he can't be painted as soft by the Republicans. They don't see how foolish they look arguing against his Pakistan stance and Iran diplomatic stance at the same time :lol

Also he is well-liked and trust me, it'll help with foreign policy. Other governments will be willing to work with him...

If anyone would start a war, it'd be McCain with his saber-rattling. Obama is not a shoot-first guy. Just look at his approach during the economic mess That tells you all you need to know about how they would approach a sudden crisis..
Click to expand...
I was more talking about a situation where we have little choice. One that is a product of the climate and not a product of policy.
 
Another prediction: we will see a commercial using the audiotape of Obama in San Francisco talking about bitter folks "clinging to God and guns." I wouldn't be surprised if we saw it begin this week.
 
HylianTom said:
Another prediction: we will see a commercial using the audiotape of Obama in San Francisco talking about bitter folks "clinging to God and guns." I wouldn't be surprised if we saw it begin this week.
Click to expand...

They will probably run those regionally.
 
Cloudy said:
Seriously McCain's campaign is ridiculous. It's like they just expected to show up and beat Obama. WTF..

It's like they have no central message besides: "Vote for me cos I was a POW and he's inexperienced"

Even Kristol's calling them out..

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/13/opinion/13kristol.html?ref=opinion
Click to expand...

Whoa, I hope McCain ain't reading that. Kristol might be on to something there, but only if McCain would follow that advice in the next few days.

I think that if nothing changes for either side in the next week, this campaign is over.
 
suaveric said:
Whoa, I hope McCain ain't reading that. Kristol might be on to something there, but only if McCain would follow that advice in the next few days.

I think that if nothing changes for either side in the next week, this campaign is over.
Click to expand...

i'm pretty sure mccain is busy reading the latest episode of dexter
 
The Chosen One said:
One thing these people don't understand when they try to play identity politics is that the reason black people vote for Obama almost unanimously isn't just because he's black. It's because he's black and qualified. The same thing with Hilary. Women voted for her in large droves because she was a woman and extremely qualified.
Click to expand...
That, and a century worth of the Republican Party alienating black americans. Kinda like how they've been anti-feminist for the longest time...
 
AniHawk said:
And women.

And well, pretty much people who aren't white males.
Click to expand...

Is that true? I'm not actually suggesting you're wrong, I just didn't know this, if so. Do you, or does anyone, have polling data showing that Republicans have consistently fared worse than Democrats with women? I know McCain is faring worse than Obama, but has that been true more generally?
 
Opiate said:
Is that true? I'm not actually suggesting you're wrong, I just didn't know this, if so. Do you, or does anyone, have polling data showing that Republicans have consistently fared worse than Democrats with women? I know McCain is faring worse than Obama, but has that been true more generally?
Click to expand...

All I have is cnn.com's data from 2000 and 2004.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/results/index.epolls.html
Women voted for Gore 54-43

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/
Women voted for Kerry 51-48

Women currently support Obama over McCain.
 
AniHawk said:
All I have is cnn.com's data from 2000 and 2004.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/results/index.epolls.html
Women voted for Gore 54-43

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/
Women voted for Kerry 51-48

Women currently support Obama over McCain.
Click to expand...

1996 Exit Polls: http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1996/elections/natl.exit.poll/index1.html
1992 Exit Polls: http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/elections/how_groups_voted/voted_92.html
1988 Exit Polls: http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/elections/how_groups_voted/voted_88.html
1984 Exit Polls: http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/elections/how_groups_voted/voted_84.html
1980 Exit Polls: http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/elections/how_groups_voted/voted_80.html
1976 Exit Polls: http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/elections/presidential/presidential_election_1976.html
 
And let McCain go back to what he’s been good at in the past — running as a cheerful, open and accessible candidate. Palin should follow suit. The two of them are attractive and competent politicians. They’re happy warriors and good campaigners. Set them free.
Click to expand...

Who knew that Kristol is a fan of Hubert Humphrey and Paul Wellstone?
 
devilhawk said:
The education component is pretty telling. You are more and more likely a republican the more education you get. But if you get your graduate degree it immediately swings. I guess it makes sense being that there are more liberal professors than conservative corporate heads.
Click to expand...

I think part of that is explicable by how bad our educational system is, at least in regards to history. This problem is also probably not a strictly US one, but it's the only system I know. The US history you get up until you enter college is one based around hero building and white washing history, which would likely leave students with a tendency towards nationalism. In college, history isn't really mandatory unless you were in a major that requires it, so I can see there being something of an "aftertaste" to this effect.
 
devilhawk said:
The education component is pretty telling. You are more and more likely a republican the more education you get. But if you get your graduate degree it immediately swings. I guess it makes sense being that there are more liberal professors than conservative corporate heads.
Click to expand...

This is probably what happened in 1996, but I think the main reason Clinton got the lower education votes was because he was from Arkansas and carried a lot of southern states. In 2004, Bush lost only to those that had postgrad studies (so the professor types) and those without a high school education (and he lost this by one point).
 
AniHawk said:
This is probably what happened in 1996, but I think the main reason Clinton got the lower education votes was because he was from Arkansas and carried a lot of southern states. In 2004, Bush lost only to those that had postgrad studies (so the professor types) and those without a high school education (and he lost this by one point).
Click to expand...

Sure, but I think the relative figures are more interesting than the absolute ones. Regardless of who actually wins, looking at polls from several election years, the trend goes like this:

No High School: Democrats are very strong
High School: D less strong
Some college: D less strong
College: D less strong
Post Grad: Strong switch in the opposite direction, D very strong

That's the relative figures in each of the elections. It is interesting, but it's difficult to explain it reasonably without more polling. I'm inclined to come up with reasons that suit my own personal agenda, and I'd like to avoid that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

  • Locked
PoliGAF 2017 |OT6| Made this thread during Harvey because the ratings would be higher
338 339 340 341 342
17K
2M
UselessNapkin replied
  • Locked
PoliGAF 2017 |OT5| The Man In the High Chair
395 396 397 398 399
20K
2M
RDreamer replied
  • Locked
PoliGAF 2017 |OT3| 13 Treasons Why
393 394 395 396 397
20K
2M
Zaraki_Kenpachi replied
  • Locked
Gamergate Community Thread
13
4K
J Bro replied
3D games model swap / moveswap thread
3
2K
Happy1996 replied
Top Bottom