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PoliGAF 2nd Pres. Debate 2008 Thread (DOW dropping, Biden is off to Home Depot)

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I know this is old, but I've been away all weekend: I just caught that clip of the woman at McCain's town hall saying she won't vote for Obama because "he's an Arab" and McCain having to grab the mic from her to shut her down. God, how horribly embarrassing for everyone concerned; I almost felt sorry for McCain.
 

devilhawk

Member
AniHawk said:
This is probably what happened in 1996, but I think the main reason Clinton got the lower education votes was because he was from Arkansas and carried a lot of southern states. In 2004, Bush lost only to those that had postgrad studies (so the professor types) and those without a high school education (and he lost this by one point).
Dole wasn't exactly a city boy either. Have met him several times when I was KU, and several buildings and a politics center are built in his name. Actually got to see Clinton speak as part of Dole's political lecture series. Drew like 16 some thousand.

Since the more education you get, the more wealthy you are, the slightly more likely you are to be a republican it makes some sense. When you get a graduate degree you are most likely more liberal in thinking. A lot less likely to be religious as well. Just trying to rationalize the reasoning.
 

AniHawk

Member
devilhawk said:
Dole wasn't exactly a cit boy either. Have met him several times when I was KU, and several buildings and a politics center are built in his name. Actually got to see Clinton speak as part of Dole's political lecture series. Drew like 16000 some thousand.

Since the more education you get, the more wealthy you are, the slightly more likely you are to be a republican it makes some sense. When you get a graduate degree you are most likely more liberal in thinking. A lot less likely to be religious as well. Just trying to rationalize the reasoning.

Ah, I forgot that Dole came from Kansas (something I first found out earlier this year). All my memories of him come from watching him go for the Kids Vote on Nickelodeon and watching THE PRESIDENT versus Old Mr. Boring Man.

I think there's something to do with age too. Younger people in college are probably more liberal than those who have a college education, are older, have a family, and want to hang on to their money.
 

devilhawk

Member
AniHawk said:
Ah, I forgot that Dole came from Kansas (something I first found out earlier this year). All my memories of him come from watching him go for the Kids Vote on Nickelodeon and watching THE PRESIDENT versus Old Mr. Boring Man.

I think there's something to do with age too. Younger people in college are probably more liberal than those who have a college education, are older, have a family, and want to hang on to their money.
And the Brittney Spears commercial. When she was still hot.
 

White Man

Member
I think you're overthinking it. The young are socialized to be nationalistic (in regards to education). I think it's really as simple as that.
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
It'd probably be more helpful if it showed what kind of degrees people had. I don't tend to believe Business and Science trend equally.
 

White Man

Member
Hitokage said:
It'd probably be more helpful if it showed what kind of degrees people had.

That's why I'm willing to write off college in regards to not fitting into the pattern as expected. You can go through college without taking a US history course. It wouldn't even be that difficult.

But of course, we don't have enough information to draw conclusions either way.

It was a one minute theory of mine. I'd throw it under the bus quickly if there were any sort of logical dissent.
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
White Man said:
That's why I'm willing to write off college in regards to not fitting into the pattern as expected. You can go through college without taking a US history course. It wouldn't even be that difficult.

But of course, we don't have enough information to draw conclusions either way.
Heh, even I haven't taken an official college US History course, but I did do extremely well in two World Civilization courses in addition to many many other sources including Eugen Weber's "The Western Tradition", which is great for the lazy.
 

devilhawk

Member
Hitokage said:
It'd probably be more helpful if it showed what kind of degrees people had.
Yeah, true. Plus a lot of the more liberal majors are sometimes the easier ones for undergrads. So people who get a BA in English or History won't be the same percentage of dem/rep as those with PhD's. I know it is a stereotype but I am thinking about the person who continues on in a liberal arts grad school. Not to mention lawyers are much more likely democrats. Scientists are more likely voting against republicans with stem cells and evolution. Doctors are a bit more mixed.
 

Joe

Member
i honestly despise mike lupica but this article is great. i agree with pretty much everything:
Voters are only losers so far


my cherry picked choice quote
Obama is no saint here. He is a politician, and his ambition is no more sacred than McCain's. But say this about him: His narrative hasn't changed in two years. He has run the same campaign against McCain that he ran against Hillary Clinton and all the rest of them.
 

Rhindle

Member
Hitokage said:
It'd probably be more helpful if it showed what kind of degrees people had. I don't tend to believe Business and Science trend equally.
I doubt it - what WOULD be telling is if it broke things down by type/rank of school attended.

Top tier/Ivy league school grads are likely to be politically conscious and heavily Democratic.

The larger mass of college grads from average/lesser schools are likely to know just enough to vote for the guys promising to keep their taxes down, and not enough to really track and understand the issues.

The "no high school" crowd is likely to be dependent on government programs and vote Democratic.
 

FightyF

Banned
Gary Whitta said:
God, how horribly embarrassing for everyone concerned; I almost felt sorry for McCain.

It's about time he saw this stuff first hand. Also, it's about time he addressed it. This scenario was great because many organizations have been calling McCain out for not saying anything, for keeping mum, and so it's great that someone said it and forced him to comment on it.

And Joe I don't think Obama ever equated Hilary Clinton to being Bush 2.0. I could be wrong, but from all that I've seen he hasn't.
 

Nabs

Member
he purchased a 30 minute block of time from cbs and nbc for 900k each. no one knows what he's going to do with that time. judging by how great his staff is at all this, i'm betting it's going to be great.
 

MrHicks

Banned
grandjedi6 said:
:lol

10oi8ph.jpg

he looks so sad :(
 

AniHawk

Member
Three completely separate things:

What happened on Nickelodeon yesterday? It was one of those Kids Pick the President thing. I remember in 1996, Clinton, Dole, and Perot all got their chance to say something, but apparently this year, Obama and McCain were answering questions from kids? How'd it go? (On a related note, somewhat interestingly, over the last 20 years, kids only voted differently once from their parents, and that was for Kerry in 2004)

Also, what were the ratings of the second debate?

Lastly, CBS and NBC? Obama didn't buy up time on ABC or FOX?
 

Nabs

Member
AniHawk said:
Lastly, CBS and NBC? Obama didn't buy up time on ABC or FOX?

I think they are still negotiating. That date may interfere with the World Series (if it goes to game 6). I haven't heard any news on ABC.
 
Nabs said:
he purchased a 30 minute block of time from cbs and nbc for 900k each. no one knows what he's going to do with that time. judging by how great his staff is at all this, i'm betting it's going to be great.

900k? That's all? Seems a little cheap.
 

numble

Member
AniHawk said:
Lastly, CBS and NBC? Obama didn't buy up time on ABC or FOX?
"ABC execs may believe there is opportunity for "Pushing Daisies" to get more sampling on Oct. 29 if the network does not join in the Obama time buy. "
 
Hey guys, I was wondering if someone could link that page that cobbled together excerpts of Obama reading from Dreams of My Father. I thought it was a ytmnd but I didn't see it listed there.
 
:lol

Presented with 30 options for new economic measures, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) has – at least for now – chosen none of them.

His campaign had been planning to roll out new proposals this week that would be aimed at restoring confidence in financial markets and encouraging investors to return.

On Sunday, hours before attending a big strategy meeting at McCain campaign headquarters, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) told Bob Schieffer on CBS’ “Face the Nation” that McCain was planning “a very comprehensive approach to jump-start the economy, by allowing capital to be formed easier in America by lowering taxes."

But when the meeting ended, so did plans for a new economy push. The campaign now says no new policy announcements are planned. Participants in the meeting refused to say what happened.

“We’re locked down,” said one official.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14508.html

Man, oh man.
 

Diablos

Member
CNN just showed three black guys who support McCain. It was pretty funny. One of them was 19 and couldn't explain his way out of a paper bag, he's totally a first-time voter being duped by his older Republican friends that will likely regret his decision someday.
 
Yeah Scarbs is having a tantrum.

He doesn't get it that the reason the media paid attention to the crowds last week is because McCain and Palin are the ones that riled them up with negative rhetoric. It was the Cause & Effect that was the story. They created the environment for stupid people to shout stupid things.

The equivalent would be if Obama and Biden said, "John McCain thinks so lowly of America that he palls around with KKK members!". "McCain would ruin the prestige of the presidency!"

Obama and Biden would be rightfully tarred and feathered if they said those things.
 

Schlep

Member
The Chosen One said:
The equivalent would be if Obama and Biden said, "John McCain thinks so lowly of America that he palls around with KKK members!". "McCain would ruin the prestige of the presidency!"
I heard he palled around with communists for over 5 years.

joke, omg
 

mj1108

Member
Obama to delivery major policy speech (Economic Rescue Plan) for the middle class in Toledo today @ 1:30. So much for McCain. :lol

http://www.politico.com/playbook/

BREAKING -- from Obama campaign release: "Senator Barack Obama to Deliver Major Policy Address Unveiling Economic Rescue Plan For The Middle Class -- Today in Toledo, Ohio, Senator Obama will deliver a major policy address to lay out his economic rescue plan for the middle class." Speech at 1:30 p.m.
 

Cheebs

Member
mj1108 said:
Obama to delivery major policy speech (Economic Rescue Plan) for the middle class in Toledo today @ 1:30. So much for McCain. :lol
Obama's speech will get faaaaar less attention than McCain's because Obama's is a policy speech. The media always ignores the policy speeches.
 
Let's Try This One More Time

Three weeks before Election Day, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) on Monday is unveiling what his aides call a more forceful new stump speech in which he portrays himself as a scrappy fighter on the comeback trail against an opponent who’s already “measuring the drapes” in the Oval Office.

“The national media has written us off.,” McCain says in excerpts released by the campaign. “Senator Obama is measuring the drapes, and planning with Speaker Pelosi and Senator Reid to raise taxes, increase spending, take away your right to vote by secret ballot in labor elections, and concede defeat in Iraq. But they forgot to let you decide. My friends, we’ve got them just where we want them.”

--

But it’s more like hitting the panic button. McCain is appearing Monday in Virginia and North Carolina – two states that are usually safe for Republicans in presidential races, and that he should have put away long ago. But Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) is pouring visits and staff into the former Confederacy, and he has caught McCain in many Southern polls.

Nationally, the Real Clear Politics average has Obama up 7.3 points. A Washington Post-ABC News Poll out Monday morning gives Obama a yawning 10-point lead, while a Reuters/C-SPAN/Zogby poll shows Obama up just four points.

"Let me give you the state of the race today,” McCain says in his new speech. “We have 22 days to go. We’re six points down. …

“What America needs in this hour is a fighter; someone who puts all his cards on the table and trusts the judgment of the American people. I come from a long line of McCains who believed that to love America is to fight for her. I have fought for you most of my life. There are other ways to love this country, but I’ve never been the kind to do it from the sidelines.”

The remarks reflect the graceful cadences of Mark Salter, McCain’s longtime aide and co-author, and suggest that the senator plans to fight without personally going viciously negative in the final days. He can leave that to the television advertisements.

The reference to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) is part of a new Republican effort to warn voters of the consequences of having on party dominate all of Washington, as Democrats would if Obama won in a landslide that helped his party rack up wider congressional margins.
 
NYT exposes the man behind the Obama whispers.

Violent, deranged, failure, liar, racist, hypocrite, paranoid and an abuser of the system, sounds like a typical Republican to me!

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/13/us/politics/13martin.html?hp

The most persistent falsehood about Senator Barack Obama’s background first hit in 2004 just two weeks after the Democratic convention speech that helped set him on the path to his presidential candidacy: “Obama is a Muslim who has concealed his religion.”

That statement, contained in a press release, spun a complex tale about the ancestry of Mr. Obama, who is Christian.

The press release was picked up by a conservative Web site, FreeRepublic.com, and spread steadily as others elaborated on its claims over the years in e-mail messages, Web sites and books. It continues to drive other false rumors about Mr. Obama’s background.

Just last Friday, a woman told Senator John McCain at a town-hall-style meeting, “I have read about him,” and “he’s an Arab.” Mr. McCain corrected her.

Until this month, the man who is widely credited with starting the cyberwhisper campaign that still dogs Mr. Obama was a secondary character in news reports, with deep explorations of his background largely confined to liberal blogs.

But an appearance in a documentary-style program on the Fox News Channel watched by three million people last week thrust the man, Andy Martin, and his past into the foreground. The program allowed Mr. Martin to assert falsely and without challenge that Mr. Obama had once trained to overthrow the government.


An examination of legal documents and election filings, along with interviews with his acquaintances, revealed Mr. Martin, 62, to be a man with a history of scintillating if not always factual claims. He has left a trail of animosity — some of it provoked by anti-Jewish comments — among political leaders, lawyers and judges in three states over more than 30 years.

He is a law school graduate, but his admission to the Illinois bar was blocked in the 1970s after a psychiatric finding of “moderately severe character defect manifested by well-documented ideation with a paranoid flavor and a grandiose character.”

Though he is not a lawyer, Mr. Martin went on to become a prodigious filer of lawsuits, and he made unsuccessful attempts to win public office for both parties in three states, as well as for president at least twice, in 1988 and 2000. Based in Chicago, he now identifies himself as a writer who focuses on his anti-Obama Web site and press releases.

Mr. Martin, in a series of interviews, did not dispute his influence in Obama rumors.

“Everybody uses my research as a takeoff point,” Mr. Martin said, adding, however, that some take his writings “and exaggerate them to suit their own fantasies.”

As for his background, he said: “I’m a colorful person. There’s always somebody who has a legitimate cause in their mind to be angry with me.”

When questions were raised last week about Mr. Martin’s appearance and claims on “Hannity’s America” on Fox News, the program’s producer said Mr. Martin was clearly expressing his opinion and not necessarily fact.

It was not Mr. Martin’s first turn on national television. The CBS News program “48 Hours” in 1993 devoted an hourlong program to what it called his prolific filing of frivolous lawsuits. He has filed so many lawsuits that a judge barred him from doing so in any federal court without preliminary approval.

He prepared to run as a Democrat for Congress in Connecticut, where paperwork for one of his campaign committees listed as one purpose “to exterminate Jew power.” He ran as a Republican for the Florida State Senate and the United States Senate in Illinois. When running for president in 1999, he aired a television advertisement in New Hampshire that accused George W. Bush of using cocaine.

In the 1990s, Mr. Martin was jailed in a case in Florida involving a physical altercation.

His newfound prominence, and the persistence of his line of political attack — updated regularly on his Web site and through press releases — amazes those from his past.

“Well, that’s just a bookend for me,” said Tom Slade, a former chairman of the Florida Republican Party, whom Mr. Martin sued for refusing to support him. Mr. Slade said Mr. Martin was driven like “a run-over dog, but he’s fearless.”

Given Mr. Obama’s unusual background, which was the focus of his first book, it was perhaps bound to become fodder for some opposed to his candidacy.

Mr. Obama was raised mostly by his white mother, an atheist, and his grandparents, who were Protestant, in Hawaii. He hardly knew his father, a Kenyan from a Muslim family who variously considered himself atheist or agnostic, Mr. Obama wrote. For a few childhood years, Mr. Obama lived in Indonesia with a stepfather he described as loosely following a liberal Islam.

Theories about Mr. Obama’s background have taken on a life of their own. But independent analysts seeking the origins of the cyberspace attacks wind up at Mr. Martin’s first press release, posted on the Free Republic Web site in August 2004.

Its general outlines have turned up in a host of works that have expounded falsely on Mr. Obama’s heritage or supposed attempts to conceal it, including “Obama Nation,” the widely discredited best seller about Mr. Obama by Jerome R. Corsi. Mr. Corsi opens the book with a quote from Mr. Martin.

“What he’s generating gets picked up in other places,” said Danielle Allen, a professor at the Institute for Advanced Study at Princeton University who has investigated the e-mail campaign’s circulation and origins, “and it’s an example of how the Internet has given power to sources we would have never taken seriously at another point in time.”

Ms. Allen said Mr. Martin’s original work found amplification in 2006, when a man named Ted Sampley wrote an article painting Mr. Obama as a secret practitioner of Islam. Quoting liberally from Mr. Martin, the article circulated on the Internet, and its contents eventually found their way into various e-mail messages, particularly an added claim that Mr. Obama had attended “Jakarta’s Muslim Wahhabi schools. Wahhabism is the radical teaching that created the Muslim terrorists who are now waging jihad on the rest of the world.”

Mr. Obama for two years attended a Catholic school in Indonesia, where he was taught about the Bible, he wrote in “Dreams From My Father,” and for two years went to an Indonesian public school open to all religions, where he was taught about the Koran.

Mr. Sampley, coincidentally, is a Vietnam veteran and longtime opponent of Mr. McCain and Senator John Kerry, both of whom he accused of ignoring his claims that American prisoners were left behind in Vietnam. He previously portrayed Mr. McCain as a “Manchurian candidate.” Speaking of Mr. Martin’s influence on his Obama writings, Mr. Sampley said, “I keyed off of his work.”

Mr. Martin’s depictions of Mr. Obama as a secret Muslim have found resonance among some Jewish voters who have received e-mail messages containing various versions of his initial theory, often by new authors and with new twists.

In his original press release, Mr. Martin wrote that he was personally “a strong supporter of the Muslim community.” But, he wrote of Mr. Obama, “it may well be that his concealment is meant to endanger Israel.” He added, “His Muslim religion would obviously raise serious questions in many Jewish circles.”

Yet in various court papers, Mr. Martin had impugned Jews.

A motion he filed in a 1983 bankruptcy case called the judge “a crooked, slimy Jew who has a history of lying and thieving common to members of his race.”

In another motion, filed in 1983, Mr. Martin wrote, “I am able to understand how the Holocaust took place, and with every passing day feel less and less sorry that it did.”

In an interview, Mr. Martin denied some statements against Jews attributed to him in court papers, blaming malicious judges for inserting them.


But in his “48 Hours” interview in 1993, he affirmed a different anti-Semitic part of the affidavit that included the line about the Holocaust, saying, “The record speaks for itself.”

When asked Friday about an assertion in his court papers that “Jews, historically and in daily living, act through clans and in wolf pack syndrome,” he said, “That one sort of rings a bell.”

He said he was not anti-Semitic. “I was trying to show that everybody in the bankruptcy court was Jewish and I was not Jewish,” he said, “and I was being victimized by religious bias.”

In discussing the denial of his admission to the Illinois bar, Mr. Martin said the psychiatric exam listing him as having a “moderately severe personality defect” was spitefully written by an evaluator he had clashed with.

Mr. Martin, who says he is from a well-off banking and farming family, is clearly pleased with his newfound attention. But, he said, others have added to his work in “scary” ways.

“They Google ‘Islam’ and ‘Obama’ and my stuff comes up and they take that and kind of use that — like a Christmas tree, and they decorate it,” he said. For instance, he said, he did not necessarily ascribe to a widely circulated e-mail message from the Israeli right-wing activist Ruth Matar, which includes the false assertion, “If Obama were elected, he would be the first Arab-American president.”

He said he had at least come to “accept” Mr. Obama’s word that he had found Jesus Christ. His intent, he said, was only to educate.
 

jorma

is now taking requests
syllogism said:
Haha wow Paul Krugman won Nobel Prize for Economics

Economics is not science so he did not get any Nobel Prize. What he got was the 'Swedish central bank economics prize in honor of Alfred Nobel'

Just sayin' :p
 
the right wing blogs should be apoplectic today with the krugman news. The Shrill One gets a Nobel!

I will now go back to F5'ing the corner and assrocket from time to time while catching up with my morning email. :lol
 
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