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[GhaleonEB]

Consider yourself part of the uninformed millions of Americans that PolitiGAF likes to rail against on a daily basis.

How so? Take it apart point by point:

George W Bush[/b] and John McCain have been joined at the hip ever since 9/11. John McCain has actually supported Bush's disastrous economic policy, wanted to go to war with Iraq even before Bush did, and in the last year has voted 100% in lockstep with him. This relationship has been going on to this day no matter how much McCain will deny it.

Over the course of Bush's eight years, McCain has voted with Bush an average of 90% of the time. 95% last year, 100% this year. True facts.

This isn't stuff Bush did when McCain was 6 years old and it's not like Bush was McCain's spiritual mentor who didn't see eye to eye with him on political issues.

IIRC, the Ayres stuff was when Obama was 8 years old, not 6. But other wise, this is correct.

McCain has supported Bush's failed policies and actions that are tearing this country apart.

I don't see how this is even debatable.

So, um. I guess I'm part of the uninformed millions?

 

[Odrion]

Here is the real quote:

"Strong countries and strong Presidents talk to their adversaries. That's what Kennedy did with Khrushchev. That's what Reagan did with Gorbachev. That's what Nixon did with Mao. I mean think about it. Iran, Cuba, Venezuela -- these countries are tiny compared to the Soviet Union. They don't pose a serious threat to us the way the Soviet Union posed a threat to us. And yet we were willing to talk to the Soviet Union at the time when they were saying we're going to wipe you off the planet."

 

[ShOcKwAvE]

Can't someone on the left just point out that any person who jokes about bombing another country isn't fit to command? Obama commercials should play that clip over and over.

 

[Stinkles]

Consider yourself part of the uninformed millions of Americans that PolitiGAF likes to rail against on a daily basis.

:lol

 

[siamesedreamer]

And Siamese: First of all, I'm Canadian. Secondly, how am I misinformed in regards to what you quoted?

For starters, to claim "John McCain has actually supported Bush's disastrous economic policy" is a complete lie. He voted against both Bush tax cuts and the Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit.

 

[Azrael]

Here is the real quote:

Doesn't matter. Media will play the ad but won't play the full clip. Got to keep 'em smart enough to run the machines and dumb enough not to know how much they're getting fucked, like Carlin said.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

http://i36.tinypic.com/11rubo0.png

Isn't this the same data by the Tax Policy Center? Don't let Chiggs see this chart! He'll claim the TPC is a liberal org. and a liar!

 

[scorcho]

let's see what the WSJ (which as Gaborn once pointed out is a liberal mouthpiece) says about this -

The all-​but-​cer­tain Re­pub­li­can pre­s­i­den­ti­al nom­inee cast him­self as a de­fender of the Bush tax cuts he voted against, but added caveats to a "no new taxes" vow he made on a Sun­day tele­vi­sion talk show two weeks ago.

http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB120451614688707083.html

so, he was against it before he was for it? where have i heard that before...

 

[speculawyer]

For starters, to claim "John McCain has actually supported Bush's disastrous economic policy" is a complete lie. He voted against both Bush tax cuts and the Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit.

That is true. However, he's flipped and now supports the very tax cuts he voted against. :-(

If John McCain wins, I hope he reverts to his old self and not the new Bushified version of himself.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

Isn't this the same data by the Tax Policy Center? Don't let Chiggs see this chart! He'll claim the TPC is a liberal org. and a liar!

I get this impression that the most successful thing that republicans have done, is to actually create a reality warping field, whereby facts and figures have actually taken on a leftist slant to them.

 

[siamesedreamer]

That is true. However, he's flipped and now supports the very tax cuts he voted against. :-(

If John McCain wins, I hope he reverts to his old self and not the new Bushified version of himself.

He may support them, but there's absolutely no way Congress is going to extent them when they expire in 2010. There's some middle ground there that I think can be reached. Perhaps starting with the AMT?

 

[polyh3dron]

For starters, to claim "John McCain has actually supported Bush's disastrous economic policy" is a complete lie. He voted against both Bush tax cuts and the Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit.

So he was against them before he was for them then.

Oh wait, isn't that what the Republicans call a flip flop?

And Siamese, as these great little graphs have shown, John McCain continues to support a tax system that favors the richest 1% of this country while boldly lying to the middle - upper middle class by saying that Obama will raise their taxes. Just like Bush. So again, how am I misinformed?

 

[scorcho]

apparently, the reason why we should vote for McCain is because none of the crazy shit he spews will actually get passed thanks to a Dem majority in both the House and Senate.

and now we see why the GOP is running this as a (negative) referendum on Obama - their candidate has literally nothing positive to offer.

 

[Gaborn]

apparently, the reason why we should vote for McCain is because none of the crazy shit he spews will actually get passed thanks to a Dem majority in both the House and Senate.

and now we see why the GOP is running this as a (negative) referendum on Obama - their candidate has literally nothing positive to offer.

Actually... that's not a half bad point...

 

[Tamanon]

Actually... that's not a half bad point...

The only problem is that there are enough current Blue Dog dems to push through McCain's more volatile foreign policy.

 

[Gaborn]

The only problem is that there are enough current Blue Dog dems to push through McCain's more volatile foreign policy.

Which is why ultimately I'm not a McCain supporter.

 

[laserbeam]

heres a pretty fun line from tv about the columns etc.

"If Obama wants to be Caeser he better watch out for Bill Clinton playing the Brutus role."

 

[mckmas8808]

So he was against them before he was for them then.

Oh wait, isn't that what the Republicans call a flip flop?

And Siamese, as these great little graphs have shown, John McCain continues to support a tax system that favors the richest 1% of this country while boldly lying to the middle - upper middle class by saying that Obama will raise their taxes. Just like Bush. So again, how am I misinformed?

McCain is a liar and Obama needs to CLEARLY point that out in his speech and the weeks afterward.

Every smart person knows that for low and middle class families Obama's tax plan is the best tax plan.

 

[Hitokage]

apparently, the reason why we should vote for McCain is because none of the crazy shit he spews will actually get passed thanks to a Dem majority in both the House and Senate.

Unlike Obama, McCain will be a lame duck! McCain '08!

 

[siamesedreamer]

apparently, the reason why we should vote for McCain is because none of the crazy shit he spews will actually get passed thanks to a Dem majority in both the House and Senate.

There's plenty of reasons to not support McCain. That, however, is not one of them.

Besides, I've already decided.

 

[Odrion]

McCain is a liar and Obama needs to CLEARLY point that out in his speech and the weeks afterward.

Every smart person knows that for low and middle class families Obama's tax plan is the best tax plan.

Actually I agree, why don't the Democrats use the "lie" word? This fucking republican administration has been caught telling lies for numerous important occasions yet the Democrats are reluctant to bluntly say "THESE GUYS ARE FUCKING SCUMBAG ASSHOLES." I know they've implied towards this, but fuck that noise, we need to tell the American people that Republicans constantly distort the truth and the shit being spewed from McCain's mouth should be taken with a grain of salt.

I'm kinda confident that they eventually will, though.

 

[scorcho]

There's plenty of reasons to not support McCain. That, however, is not one of them.

Besides, I've already decided.

52-62!
52-62!
52-62!
52-62!

almost rolls of the tongue as easily as 'four more years!'

 

[GhaleonEB]

Actually I agree, why don't the Democrats use the "lie" word? This fucking republican administration has been caught telling lies for numerous important occasions yet the Democrats are reluctant to bluntly say "THESE GUYS ARE FUCKING SCUMBAG ASSHOLES." I know they've implied towards this, but fuck that noise, we need to tell the American people that Republicans constantly distort the truth and the shit being spewed from McCain's mouth should be taken with a grain of salt.

They have. Obama said "they know they're lying" when talking about how republicans were describing Obama's energy plan, and Obama's camp responded to two ads by McCain by stating, "This ad is a lie." The statements went on to explain how and why.

At the time I thought it was a sign that Obama was going to ratchet up the push-back, but that's faded in the past few weeks. I too hope it comes back, big time.

 

[speculawyer]

Every smart person knows that for low and middle class families Obama's tax plan is the best tax plan.

To some degree, this is a shameless move to buy votes just as the GOP has done for years.

But if so, it seems to have completely failed for Obama. Why? Is it because people don't know/understand the plan? They've been fed too many years of GOP=lower taxes? They don't believe him?

I certainly don't think it is a high-minded, I want the system to be the same for rich people.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Reposting this:

“There’s one big difference between me and the others–I won’t take every last dime of the surplus and spend it on tax cuts that mostly benefit the wealthy.” [McCain campaign commercial, January 2000]

“I am disappointed that the Senate Finance Committee preferred instead to cut the top tax rate of 39.6% to 36%, thereby granting generous tax relief to the wealthiest individuals of our country at the expense of lower- and middle-income American taxpayers.” [McCain Senate floor statement, May 21, 2001]

“But when you look at the percentage of the tax cuts that–as the previous tax cuts–that go to the wealthiest Americans, you will find that the bulk of it, again, goes to wealthiest Americans.” [NBC’s “Today,” Jan. 7, 2003]

What the fuck happened to this guy?

 

[polyh3dron]

Actually I agree, why don't the Democrats use the "lie" word? This fucking republican administration has been caught telling lies for numerous important occasions yet the Democrats are reluctant to bluntly say "THESE GUYS ARE FUCKING SCUMBAG ASSHOLES." I know they've implied towards this, but fuck that noise, we need to tell the American people that Republicans constantly distort the truth and the shit being spewed from McCain's mouth should be taken with a grain of salt.

I'm kinda confident that they eventually will, though.

No, I'm afraid they won't call a spade a spade like the Republicans would do at the drop of a dime with RAGE.

Why? You could muse over the divisiveness of it and the implications and yada yada yada, but when it comes down to it, they won't call a spade a spade because they're Democrats.

I hope I am proven wrong though.

 

[Azrael]

apparently, the reason why we should vote for McCain is because none of the crazy shit he spews will actually get passed thanks to a Dem majority in both the House and Senate.

If the last two years have proven anything, it's that the Democratic Congress cannot be trusted to rein in the President. Executive power has expanded under Bush Jr. to the point where the Legislative branch has become a paper tiger. Bush officials ignore Congressional subpoenas and mock the separation of powes and Congress is impotent to do anything about it. But they're going to rein in McSame. Riiiiiiiiight.

There's a reason the RNC is pouring all its resources into the presidential race and telling congressional candidates to make do on their own. Because the real power is in the Executive and Judicial branches and the President is the key to both.

 

[polyh3dron]

Reposting this:



What the fuck happened to this guy?

He was murdered by the T-1000 who is now posing as him to win the presidency in order to unleash Skynet on Iran, and then the world.

 

[laserbeam]

Reposting this:



What the fuck happened to this guy?

Politics happened. McCain is already not the most popular guy on the block in the Republican party so he has to make himself look popular to them in what he says.

Honestly Id guess if he wins we will see the 2000 McCain in the White House.

 

[maynerd]

Honestly Id guess if he wins we will see the 2000 McCain in the White House.

RIGHT

 

[Odrion]

Honestly Id guess if he wins we will see the 2000 McCain in the White House.

Seeing how the GOP acts I really doubt this.

 

[polyh3dron]

Politics happened. McCain is already not the most popular guy on the block in the Republican party so he has to make himself look popular to them in what he says.

Honestly Id guess if he wins we will see the 2000 McCain in the White House.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Sure buddy.

 

[laserbeam]

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Sure buddy.

Once he would be in the White house He can do what he wants. Its pretty safe bet hes a 1 term only President.

If anything Politics should have taught people is Politicians make up alot of promises and positions in the Election they never follow through on. Election Season is the season of saying what people want to hear

 

[maynerd]

Once he would be in the White house He can do what he wants. Its pretty safe bet hes a 1 term only President.

If anything Politics should have taught people is Politicians make up alot of promises and positions in the Election they never follow through on. Election Season is the season of saying what people want to hear

So what you're saying is in 2000 McCain was telling the truth on how he would govern. He wasn't saying things just to get elected. Now in 2008 he's lying so he can get elected and will do what he said he would do in 2000.

WUT?

 

[Clevinger]

Once he would be in the White house He can do what he wants. Its pretty safe bet hes a 1 term only President.

If anything Politics should have taught people is Politicians make up alot of promises and positions in the Election they never follow through on. Election Season is the season of saying what people want to hear

He will have

a. A democratic congress/house

and

b. The people he sold his soul to in order to help get him into office

to contend with. He won't be the McCain of 2000, even if he still wanted to be (which is unkown).

 

[laserbeam]

So what you're saying is in 2000 McCain was telling the truth on how he would govern. He wasn't saying things just to get elected. Now in 2008 he's lying so he can get elected and will do what he said he would do in 2000.

WUT?

Mccains 2000 persona at least fit more with the established records of McCain. 2008 McCain comes off as an over the top parody.

He will have

a. A democratic congress/house

and

b. The people he sold his soul to in order to help get him into office

to contend with. He won't be the McCain of 2000, even if he still wanted to be (which is unkown).

Democratic Congress more then anything would push the 2000 persona more as he would have to govern in the more moderate Angle to get anything done.

 

[Wolffen]

So is there any chance in hell that SNL will do a skit on all the free passes McCain has been getting from the press? I'm figuring that's about the only way the media might wake up and actually stop treating McCain with kid gloves, the same way the SNL skit about Obama during the primaries seemed to get the press to go from treating Obama as a media darling to asking "What's wrong with Barack Obama?"

 

[Krowley]

So what you're saying is in 2000 McCain was telling the truth on how he would govern. He wasn't saying things just to get elected. Now in 2008 he's lying so he can get elected and will do what he said he would do in 2000.

WUT?

Exactly. It seems quite obvious to me.

Extreme right wing politics is not what McCain is about on a fundamental level. What he learned in his first attempt was that running as a maverick would not get him through the primaries, but there is no reason to assume that he has lost his principles at a core level.

It's all about the ends justifying the means.

edit// but understand that on the war, he is expressing his true feelings, and the mccain of 2000 would have the same position. People who hate him because of his foreign policy wouldn't have liked the McCain of 2000 either.

 

[Tamanon]

"Look, I owe the American people an apology. If I had beaten the old man you’d of never heard of the kid and you wouldn't be in this mess. So it's all my fault and I feel that very, very strongly," - Michael Dukakis.

LOL

Also, bigger LOL at people saying that this McCain is false and the old McCain is real. Lord I hope so, but he was pretty belligerent even back in the day on foreign policy. I mean pushing Iraq as behind the Anthrax attacks for no reason....that's just dangerous stuff.

 

[NLB2]

PROTIP: If you're not white and rich, with powerful white rich buddies, you're a terrist, or a terrist sympathizer. Or both.

Protip: Look up Bill Ayer's history before you play the race/class card.

 

[Odrion]

LOL

Also, bigger LOL at people saying that this McCain is false and the old McCain is real. Lord I hope so, but he was pretty belligerent even back in the day on foreign policy. I mean pushing Iraq as behind the Anthrax attacks for no reason....that's just dangerous stuff.

another reason why that iran ad has me scared

 

[Hitokage]

What I find weird about the hypothesis that states McCain v2008 is entirely an act to get McCain v2000 in office is that when Bush made unfulfilled promises they were to the middle and reasonably backed by his record as governor of Texas... only to swing far right once in office, at least in part because of the people he surrounded himself with like Rove and Cheney. Now, McCain 2008 is making promises not to the middle at all, but to the right contrary to at least a significant portion of his record, and yet he's expected to swing back to the middle even though he's surrounding himself with pretty much the same people?

 

[siamesedreamer]

Reposting this:

What the fuck happened to this guy?

What do you mean what happened?

He voted against the very things you're quoting.

His current position is nothing but pandering to the base. What he's proposing will not happen. Period. The DEMs won't extend the tax cuts in an effort to make him be responsible for the "largest tax hikes in history" (that's the GOP talking point about allowing the tax cuts to expire - don't know if its actually true).

 

[pxleyes]

What do you mean what happened?

He voted against the very things you're quoting.

His current position is nothing but pandering to the base. What he's proposing will not happen. Period. The DEMs won't extend the tax cuts in an effort to make him be responsible for the "largest tax hikes in history" (that's the GOP talking point about allowing the tax cuts to expire - don't know if its actually true).

I hope that isn't considered justification to elect him.

 

[theviolenthero]

Don't know if this has already been answered but how much money do you think Obama will save per year by not having ties to lobbyist?
This has always been the #1 issue for me but i've never heard anybody in the media give numbers.

I'm guessing it'll be atleast 1-Trillion per year,minimum. :lol

 

[Hitokage]

His current position is nothing but pandering to the base. What he's proposing will not happen. Period. The DEMs won't extend the tax cuts in an effort to make him be responsible for the "largest tax hikes in history" (that's the GOP talking point about allowing the tax cuts to expire - don't know if its actually true).

Why do I feel like it's 1994 again?

 

[Clevinger]

Extreme right wing politics is not what McCain is about on a fundamental level. What he learned in his first attempt was that running as a maverick would not get him through the primaries, but there is no reason to assume that he has lost his principles at a core level.

Really? Running the campaign he has I can only assume he's sacrificed most of his principles in order to enhance his legacy. Whether it be matters of character or the issues or the people he's now buddying up with, he's flipped on just about everything in order to get closer to the white house.

It's disgusting, really.

 

[bob_arctor]

Protip: Look up Bill Ayer's history before you play the race/class card.

But why the fuck would I bother? Is he running for President?? For the love of Pete, dude ain't even a child molester. That's the sort of person you want no part of. Eternally.

 

[Krowley]

What I find weird about the hypothesis that states McCain v2008 is entirely an act to get McCain v2000 in office is that when Bush made unfulfilled promises they were to the middle and reasonably backed by his record as governor of Texas... only to swing far right once in office, at least in part because of the people he surrounded himself with like Rove and Cheney. Now, McCain 2008 is making promises not to the middle at all, but to the right contrary to at least a significant portion of his record, and yet he's expected to swing back to the middle even though he's surrounding himself with pretty much the same people?

It's just looking at his whole career in the senate... McCain has always been fairly conservative, but he's always been willing to compromise and he's always been a voice of reason in his party. His recent stance only appeared in the lead-up to this current election, and even during all that, he defied his party on immigration and torture.. issues that he considers too important to fudge on... and almost lost in the primaries due to his unwillingness to bend.

Even now, he threatens to nominate a democrat as his VP and has his whole party in an uproar at the possibility.

Also, as a general rule, i never believe what politicians say in a campaign. I'm much more interested in looking at their actions and their records. That's one reason i don't trust Obama... His record is too thin, so it's hard to gauge him.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Why do I feel like it's 1994 again?

Damn Clinton for the largest tax hikes in history.