PROMETHEUS UNMARKED SPOILER THREAD!
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Agreed.
we.are.the.armada
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Still doesn't explain why she never mentions it to anybody. It's also magical and can grow very quickly, almost breaking the laws of reality, so I'm not sure how she could be entirely sure. I bet she just forgot about it. She was high on meds.
Also, decontaminating it might just kill some bacteria on it's skin or something. We can't assume the machine put some sort of chemical in there designed to kill a squidbaby.
The problem with that logic is that she is a researcher by nature. Regardless of whether or not she thought it was dead, the simple act of bringing the dead biological life form back should've been enough of a warning to flush the damn thing, especially when given the reminder of the danger of the planet by the captain.
ChanDangle
Member
Just watched the movie last night and enjoyed it. It did leave a lot of holes that I've been trying fill in reading this thread. What I thought was a good source to wrap my head around the movie was this link my brother sent me to.
http://mashable.com/2012/06/12/reddit-explains-prometheus/
I don't know if this is the consensus on all the riddles that this movie opened.
http://mashable.com/2012/06/12/reddit-explains-prometheus/
I don't know if this is the consensus on all the riddles that this movie opened.
Nappuccino
Member
This is just my take on it... but it seems to me that they created an entire new branch of our history- as if they were our missing link. So this makes me think that the SJ wasn't going into primordial waters, but instead, injecting his dna into a system that was already functioning. Hard to say though... I think my interpretation makes a bit more sense overal, but the movie doesn't exactly back up my version either (it doesn't show any already existing animals on that planet)
However, I think they show this because, while there is plenty of evidence that evolution is a possible (probable) answer to the question of life... I don't think Ridley is particularly interesting in actual science and the answers it is currently providing. He asks, "What if we were created" and is intrigued by the answers and theories he creates for it.
So really, the point of the SJ doing this is because it fits Ridley's theory to that "what if" question.
As for how it ties into the squid baby and xenomorph cycle is that (and this is just my own opinion) they weaponized that goo for if and when their creations became powerful enough to challenge their own superiority. Plant an invitation to a bioweapon facility hopefully they'll wipe themselves out. It is a sort of safety net for them least their creations get too powerful.
I can totally buy the the idea that the squid became adult size very quickly, I mean it's alien squid differnt rules, same thing happened with Xeno in Alien. But what bothered me is that the crew members in Prometheus never took notice and Shaw never explained it like it's some every day occurrence
I was talking specifically about how the goo > host > facehugger > xeno biology works.
There is alot to think about, mainly our creation, life, death, evolution, and purpose. I just don't think how one alien came about is ultimately that important. I got the impression that the black goo was a pandoroa's box, anything could happen.
The 5 Stages of Prometheus
1) Denial
Ridley Scott's return to sci-fi is a stunning visual achievement which I enjoyed a lot, I don't see why everyone is complaining!
2) Anger
Hang on a minute, why did they do that, what does this mean, this doesn't make any sense!
3) Bargaining
Maybe they meant this, or how about this, there's nothing in the film to suggest it but it sort of makes sense. Doesn't it?
4) Depression
Shit. It doesn't. I've never been so disappointed in a film
5) Acceptance
Space Jesus.
1) Denial
Ridley Scott's return to sci-fi is a stunning visual achievement which I enjoyed a lot, I don't see why everyone is complaining!
2) Anger
Hang on a minute, why did they do that, what does this mean, this doesn't make any sense!
3) Bargaining
Maybe they meant this, or how about this, there's nothing in the film to suggest it but it sort of makes sense. Doesn't it?
4) Depression
Shit. It doesn't. I've never been so disappointed in a film
5) Acceptance
Space Jesus.
Are we sure it's not the same?
according to the art book... that you have to buy to finish the story apparently.
The 5 Stages of Prometheus
1) Denial
Ridley Scott's return to sci-fi is a stunning visual achievement which I enjoyed a lot, I don't see why everyone is complaining!
2) Anger
Hang on a minute, why did they do that, what does this mean, this doesn't make any sense!
3) Bargaining
Maybe they were meant this, or how about this, there's nothing in the film to suggest it but it sort of makes sense. Doesn't it?
4) Depression
Shit. It doesn't. I've never been so disappointed in a film
5) Acceptance
Space Jesus.
lol in Space Jesus we trust.
I'm generally okay with this but it's David's lack of curiosity about it in particular that bugged me, especially since he's the character who showed the most interest in the various happenings throughout the movie and critically was the one who infected Holloway to see what would happen.
I would think he would have taken great interest in a mutant pregnancy that resulted from that particular experiment, especially if as Lindelof implied, David was hoping Holloway would have sex with Shaw after the infection.
Nappuccino
Member
I completely agree. But this also has to be a deleted scene. I mean, there's no way they got all the way to editing to realize "Isn't it weird that no one asks about this?" I will be absolutely dumbfounded if there isn't a scene (or scene like that) re-inserted for the director's cut.
Ether_Snake
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Those unused scenes in the zombie fight seem really interesting. In the film he barely got inside before run over and taken down by backup. In the trailer scenes it looks like he managed to breach deeper into the cargo hold before being taken down in a prolonged battle. I wonder if they'll extend it in the Director's Cut. Maybe we'll finally find out where the missing crew members went!
But in the movie it happens no way at the same time as Weyland gets out.
That's true. Which brings up a big question of how much of the poor disjointed sequencing in the final acts are entirely script issues, and how much are editing issues. The former is harder to fix in a Director's Cut, the latter, given enough original footage, is much easier.
Did anyone else get the sense that David was in love with Shaw?
He was looking at her dreams in the beginning to learn more about her, he poisoned Holloway because he wasn't good enough for her, and reached out to her in the end. Yes, she was the only survivor, but if he really had no feelings, you'd think he wouldn't do that, or help her face the the Engineers.
Yeah, I'm not sure why anyone would think those were the same thing, just because it was black. That said, though, it's confusing and needlessly complicating that they are both black.
My thoughts go something like this...
He was looking at her dreams in the beginning to learn more about her, he poisoned Holloway because he wasn't good enough for her, and reached out to her in the end. Yes, she was the only survivor, but if he really had no feelings, you'd think he wouldn't do that, or help her face the the Engineers.
Yeah, I'm not sure why anyone would think those were the same thing, just because it was black. That said, though, it's confusing and needlessly complicating that they are both black.
My thoughts go something like this...
1. The Engineers are in the throes of a millennia-long war with a great enemy - they think they're the best lifeforms, and all other life is impure or beneath them.
2. They initially develop the goo to turn themselves into living weapons as a way to win the war.
3. Thinking the war unwinnable and all life is sacred, a rogue group of religious scientists break off and use a modified form of the goo to seed life around the galaxy - life that will eventually become a new generation of Engineers, hidden away from their enemy as they re-evolve from nothing.
4. The rogue Engineers leave an invitation so that their creations could some day gather and reunite with them, or at least discover their common heritage and usher in a new age of Engineer-dom together.
5. The central order finds out about their plan, and nukes the sect's planet into near-oblivion, and uses it as their base of operations. They plan to transform the life they seeded into thralls for the coming battle against their true enemy, but succumb to their own weapon.
2. They initially develop the goo to turn themselves into living weapons as a way to win the war.
3. Thinking the war unwinnable and all life is sacred, a rogue group of religious scientists break off and use a modified form of the goo to seed life around the galaxy - life that will eventually become a new generation of Engineers, hidden away from their enemy as they re-evolve from nothing.
4. The rogue Engineers leave an invitation so that their creations could some day gather and reunite with them, or at least discover their common heritage and usher in a new age of Engineer-dom together.
5. The central order finds out about their plan, and nukes the sect's planet into near-oblivion, and uses it as their base of operations. They plan to transform the life they seeded into thralls for the coming battle against their true enemy, but succumb to their own weapon.
we.are.the.armada
Member
I agree with you about Ridley, he either doesn't understand or is revising panspermia. Also, the DNA of the dead SJ and human DNA are a complete match. This is bullshit to me because if it was a complete match, modern human would look exactly like the SJ. The jockies were on earth millions of years ago cultivating, so why haven't they evolved?
They somehow, independently of evolution, created humans with identical DNA to their own and the DNA matched completely; no way around us not looking the same. The magic computer should have been off by a little at least, Ridley...
As for the "it's a trap" cave painting theory - no, I don't buy it. That is a contingency barren plan that would not yield a consistent result. Especially if you want to kill humanity at some point when you are a race of beings millions of years older than humans. It is preposterous to anthropomorphize the SJs' reasoning or methods for anything at this point. Still, we don't know why the paintings are there and are leading to LV223.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
Just saw this
I would give it a weird as hell/10
I don't even know what to think. Very up and down movie.
I would give it a weird as hell/10
I don't even know what to think. Very up and down movie.
LMAO the 5 stages are awesome I didn't go through any of them. The film delivered what I wanted the most; chilling atmosphere, amazing set/practical design and interesting characters. So the story is messy at least it was entertaining and warrented a 100 page discussion.
Im going to go watch it again this Fri. As far as space aliens go the engineers are in my top 5 aliens race, it convinced on the idea that space jocky are not some elephants. They looked believable which is something I couldn't see in the Na vi.
1. Xeno.
2. Thing.
3. Predator.
4. Engineers.
5. Blob.
Im going to go watch it again this Fri. As far as space aliens go the engineers are in my top 5 aliens race, it convinced on the idea that space jocky are not some elephants. They looked believable which is something I couldn't see in the Na vi.
1. Xeno.
2. Thing.
3. Predator.
4. Engineers.
5. Blob.
Yeah that's my guess as well. Im sure directors cut will answer a few questions if not all, like most Scott films.
To be fair, it could be a really close match and still result in the differences we saw. Humans and chimps are 99.8% the same, after all.
And of course humans are individually genetically different, and presumably the computer shouldn't think that two different people are different species.
From what we've seen, the Engineers are a completely homogenous race - they're all the same. So the differences between a human and their singular genome could still fall within the range of acceptable human permutations.
we.are.the.armada
Member
It showed an exact match - and this movie takes place decades ahead of us with pretty high tech so I'm not sure about the margin of error.
Here, think about this to get started. Squid baby blues.
Umm no? He is a robot. He admired her survival instincts. It's was a refrence to Ash in Alien admiring the Xeno's toughness. He is curious and want to get off the planet so he helps her.
I really don't think the 2 black goos are different. Why would they be? They do the same thing. It breaks down DNA and makes new life...
I dunno, when I think back on the experience I had in the theater, I was riveted. Had some problems with it while watching - and more afterwards - but overall I had a good time. When you think about it more afterwards, like with many movies, plot holes and other oddities start to reveal themselves to a greater degree.
But I've always put a lot of stock into the experience had while actively watching a movie as opposed to the subsequent deconstruction, and in that light I consider it a good movie and a fun time. I totally understand that many were disappointed - and I was as well to some degree - but there's this level of anger and hatred towards Prometheus that I find really strange.
You've got some calling it the worst movie of the year, and those people probably need to go watch movies like What To Expect When You're Expecting, Battleship, etc, or learn how to keep their expectations at a reasonable level.
But I've always put a lot of stock into the experience had while actively watching a movie as opposed to the subsequent deconstruction, and in that light I consider it a good movie and a fun time. I totally understand that many were disappointed - and I was as well to some degree - but there's this level of anger and hatred towards Prometheus that I find really strange.
You've got some calling it the worst movie of the year, and those people probably need to go watch movies like What To Expect When You're Expecting, Battleship, etc, or learn how to keep their expectations at a reasonable level.
Nappuccino
Member
The basis for this interpretation is a) the captains interpretation of the facilities being off world storage of their weapons of mass destruction and b) the question: Why point people to this location unless you wanted them to fall prey to your weapons? To give the weapons away?
I suppose it is possible that, when used with knowlege, the goo is wholly a good thing and the SJ's were actually excited to show off its useful potential... and the first encounter with humans showed that they didn't actually want the same ends... hence the mass slaughter of all those there.
Also, was the DNA really a 100% match, or just essentially 100%? I ask because I seem to remember the bars didn't completely match.
I think it's the heavy religious symbolism to be quite honest. Saw the same thing with The Book of Eli.
From what I took it this was really the 1st time humanoid life had been found, everyone kind of lost thier shit and wasn't thinking clearly "like scientists"
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
So I'm behind on all this, what is Space Jesus/how did Jesus relate to this film?
People go see a movie about the origins of mankind. Upset that Jesus symbolism is in it.
Symbolism?
Space Jesus is an off-screen character who's crucifixion is the basis for the whole film. That's a bit more than symbolism, more like ridiculousness.
we.are.the.armada
Member
People are analytically approaching a movie in a way that you don't so they must be in a state of anger and hatred?
This movie was promoted by the creators as something that is supposed to engage audiences into expansion of thought and expectation. And you are pontificating about how people should learn to keep their expectations at a reasonable level?
If you don't want to discuss the movie fine, just please resist the urge to tell GAF what they probably need to go watch. Also, what did you think about the squid baby?
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
What are you talking about? >_<
You need to advance through the 5 stages.
The event about 2000 years ago, the reason they were on their way to eradicate us, we killed one of their own.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
What really? That's crazy.
Certainly not the worst movie, but I think worst disappointment holds true for most.
Indeed
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
Has there been anything in canon where xenomorphs burst from hosts fully formed like the deacon did? I assume it's just another convenient lapse of reality in a long list, but wanted to know if there was another case of it.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
I assumed that was because it was a queen.
we.are.the.armada
Member
I'm going out on a limb, but how about this:
Maybe cave people saw the SJs pointing at the constellation and had drawn pictures of it? Maybe the SJs on Earth used a telecomm. device to speak with other SJ and they made a crude painted record of the location to send a signal? Maybe other SJ were spying on the Lv223 ones and made sketch of their hidden weapons base?
I don't get how Weyland thinks they will grant him immortality.
As for the DNA match - I think that their tech would be pretty damn accurate at that year and on a mission for that purpose. Still no idea where the squid comes into play. I have a theory that the black ooze, the fire of the gods, comes from a Lovecraftian basis. Maybe the sequel will show another alien, above the SJs, maybe even their creators. David's Goliath if you will.
Damn, I just don't know.
Nappuccino
Member
How do we know that was fully formed? The "face hugger" was huge in that case. Based on the facehuggers size and the deacon's initial size... things seem about right if it was going to keep getting bigger.
(the deacon is the name for the quasi-xeno morph we see at the end of the movie, yes?)
It wasn't a constellation, it was a bunch of stars that look like a single star from earth. Only with modern technology were they able to find a matching stellar systems. So the Engineers definitely showed them how to draw it at the very least.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
I'm asking only having seen Alien. I guess the queen stuff is another thing entirely.
we.are.the.armada
Member
Oh damn, ok wait... so it was not pointing to LV223 but rather a group of stars.
How far away is LV(Alien 1st movie) from LV223? Is it in the same star cluster?
Scarecrow
Member
Ok, so I'm thinking the goo at the beginning of the film is different from the goo the expedition finds. The menacing goo seems to be the basic building blocks for the xenomorph. Whatever organism comes in contact with it mutates toward either the facehugger or alien line.
The goo from the beginning is the building blocks for engineers/humans. It'll eventually work the same way as the xeno goo, but much slower (I guess they perfect their technique in the mean time). Especially if there isn't much complex life on a planet.
I'm also thinking David sold out the humans when talking with the Engineer. After all, he 'wanted his parents dead'. I think he wanted to buddy up with the tall guy to further his adventures, but the Engineer had enough of that nonsense and tried to wipe out the whole lot.
The goo from the beginning is the building blocks for engineers/humans. It'll eventually work the same way as the xeno goo, but much slower (I guess they perfect their technique in the mean time). Especially if there isn't much complex life on a planet.
I'm also thinking David sold out the humans when talking with the Engineer. After all, he 'wanted his parents dead'. I think he wanted to buddy up with the tall guy to further his adventures, but the Engineer had enough of that nonsense and tried to wipe out the whole lot.
Ghost_Protocol
Member
we.are.the.armada
Member
Could this be true:
Nappuccino
Member
again, the bolded is mine
She got the axe because she heard noises and figured the giant human alien man was coming after her??????
Ether_Snake
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I think it was supposed to actually imply that David was hating on her faith. Probably something that will be an important point in Prometheus 2. He's basically playing the role of the devil. He is intrigued by her, because he finds this faith thing ridiculous. A sort of hate/jealousy.
At the end of the movie, it's possible he actually changed his view though, is starting to think she might have something he does not, because of what she went through and how she still wants to find out more about her "God".
Soooo much wasted potential. This was my most-anticipated movie of the year.
Visually, it was quite stunning. The soundtrack was great at times. The acting was good, for the most part.
I could write an essay on the film's negative aspects, but I'll just post the cliffnotes.
- There was no sustained sense of menace throughout the film. It was very stop and go, with no buildup. Every threat was dealt with quickly, and then a new, somewhat-unrelated one would appear.
- Aside from the c-section scene (which was MUCH tamer than some of you guys made it out to be; I swear some of you have no intestinal fortitude), everything good in the movie, all the scenes that made you want to watch it in the first place, all happen in the last 10-15 minutes.
- The threats that the crew did have to deal with were not very intimidating. Basically you have a black goo snake, which appears once and then never again, an infected Holloway, who throws some people around and is promptly put down, a giant facehugger that never threatens a human character, and an 8-foot tall albino, who is basically this movie's version of Sunshine's Pinbacker (i.e. he sucks). Not a single threat that made me feel afraid for any of the characters, aside from the squid fetus.
- How the fuck does a character run around after her abdomen has just been cut open and sutured shut? I'll let this one slide; maybe medical technology in 2094 can instantly bind muscle tissue together again, but it seemed weird. Anyway, this is a minor problem.
I think the movie suffered too much from Ridley wanting to distance it from Alien. We could have had a much better film if some decent monsters had been introduced halfway through. Anything to create sustained suspense, really. I never felt on edge for more than a few minutes at a time. Even Alien 3 and Resurrection managed to keep an aura of suspense and terror going for longer periods.
No.
If they travel to a system 30 light years away at .999c, slightly more than 30 years will pass on Earth, but much less time will pass on the ship (the movie made it two years). The only way thousands of years would pass would be if they were traveling at some much smaller fraction of the speed of light.
As for space-time warping, who the fuck knows? There might be some relativistic effects. But sci-fi in general tends to toss out relativity when warp drives are involved. In the movie-verse, two years at warp speed could equal two years of Earth-time. There might not be any relativistic effects at all.
Visually, it was quite stunning. The soundtrack was great at times. The acting was good, for the most part.
I could write an essay on the film's negative aspects, but I'll just post the cliffnotes.
- There was no sustained sense of menace throughout the film. It was very stop and go, with no buildup. Every threat was dealt with quickly, and then a new, somewhat-unrelated one would appear.
- Aside from the c-section scene (which was MUCH tamer than some of you guys made it out to be; I swear some of you have no intestinal fortitude), everything good in the movie, all the scenes that made you want to watch it in the first place, all happen in the last 10-15 minutes.
- The threats that the crew did have to deal with were not very intimidating. Basically you have a black goo snake, which appears once and then never again, an infected Holloway, who throws some people around and is promptly put down, a giant facehugger that never threatens a human character, and an 8-foot tall albino, who is basically this movie's version of Sunshine's Pinbacker (i.e. he sucks). Not a single threat that made me feel afraid for any of the characters, aside from the squid fetus.
- How the fuck does a character run around after her abdomen has just been cut open and sutured shut? I'll let this one slide; maybe medical technology in 2094 can instantly bind muscle tissue together again, but it seemed weird. Anyway, this is a minor problem.
I think the movie suffered too much from Ridley wanting to distance it from Alien. We could have had a much better film if some decent monsters had been introduced halfway through. Anything to create sustained suspense, really. I never felt on edge for more than a few minutes at a time. Even Alien 3 and Resurrection managed to keep an aura of suspense and terror going for longer periods.
No.
If they travel to a system 30 light years away at .999c, slightly more than 30 years will pass on Earth, but much less time will pass on the ship (the movie made it two years). The only way thousands of years would pass would be if they were traveling at some much smaller fraction of the speed of light.
As for space-time warping, who the fuck knows? There might be some relativistic effects. But sci-fi in general tends to toss out relativity when warp drives are involved. In the movie-verse, two years at warp speed could equal two years of Earth-time. There might not be any relativistic effects at all.
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