PS3 Firmware Update 3.21 of preventing piracy by removing Linux.
- Thread starter Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
- Start date
I think the difference is B/C -- if present -- will help Sony make money to fund the continual development. OtherOS does not contribute $$$, and is used by very few people, and yet now pose a security risk that can affect Sony, partners and PSN users. One day if few people want B/C, then it may go away like publishers taking away old/obsoleted game servers.
The talent invested in OtherOS can be used to do something that benefit more PS3 users.
The talent invested in OtherOS can be used to do something that benefit more PS3 users.
patsu said:
They took money for OtherOS when it was a feature on the box. It did contribute $$$. I highly doubt Linux just "magically" worked on the PS3. They spent money on developing a feature that they marketed, which, like it or not, attaches a value to that feature. Removing that feature at a later date with no refund or compensation should be illegal, or it opens some scary doors. This "but you can choose to not upgrade" is an even slipperier slope. How is this solution even remotely fair? It's insulting.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
RavenFox said:
With the PS2 you could install any off the shelve 3.5 HDD and run a special disc then Rent/borrow games and back them up to the HDD. The same could be done for even the biggest Blu-ray game. What is different in the technique from the PS2 to the PS3 in this situation?
All one would need is a huge cheap HDD and a Gamefly account. No Blu-ray burner needed... no 50 gig download needed either but same end result.
missile said:
RSX would have helped, but the reason I am negative against PS3 Linux now is because economically speaking, it does not make sense. There is no competition with low-end PCs. Every PS3 sold without game is a loss to Sony. The low-end PCs, netbooks, etc. are all sold for profit. Over time, the PCs will drop in price, and gain in even more software. PS3 Linux is not a sustainable business. Throwing resources there is a dead end.
Well... like it or not, Linux is OtherOS's only outcome today.
CircleOfFire
Member
It sucks they're taking away the OtherOS functionality. But I wish people in this thread would stop saying Sony took away backwards compatibility, the card readers and the SACD functionality. They stopped putting the feature in newer consoles and that's it with _those_ features.
A lot of the attitude here has been treating it as if Sony slipped into their homes in the middle of the night and worked over their PS3 with a baseball bat to stop them from playing PS2 games.
A lot of the attitude here has been treating it as if Sony slipped into their homes in the middle of the night and worked over their PS3 with a baseball bat to stop them from playing PS2 games.
Haint
Member
panda21 said:
There are probably a hundred different laws that could be applied here, and none of them are going to be black and white. The crux of this case is really the removal of advertised functionality. That is what separates it from your Arcade analogy as well as other controller-required titles. Adding an HDD to a Core doesn't disable Xbox 1 BC for instance. They can put anything they want on a box or in a EULA in an attempt to cover their ass, but that doesn't mean a court is going to back it up.
pancakesandsex
Member
racerx said:
Hey, you got your tag!
RoninChaos
Member
They didn't do that shit because they were nice people. They did it because the Xbox 360 does almost ALL of that stuff out of the box. They did it to stay competitive.Solstice said:
railGUN said:
Some people bought PS3 for Linux and gaming. These people should find an avenue to talk to Sony for compensation or refund. I don't know what Sony will say because PS3 was sold at a heavy loss in the first place. It's something that probably requires arbitration.
For most of the gamers, they may not care. In fact, you may find some people happy about Sony focusing on games.
Reallink said:
the thing is they aren't removing the functionality.
they are giving you the choice of upgrading to a newer firmware to be able to play newer games. they aren't taking anything away from people who choose not to upgrade.
whether they will only be able to play a few (ie the wii controller or hdd analogy) or no newer games if they choose not to update seems irrelevant to me. what if all wii games happened to require a nunchuck from now on?
just because sony choose to only release games that require a higher firmware from now on (and even this probably won't be uniform since it depends on when the game was developed) doesn't prevent the older games from working if you choose not to upgrade.
your argument seems to be based on the fact that sony are somehow required to keep providing games that run on a non-upgraded older console, which is nonsense
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
missile said:
Reads like a technical version of "Square Enix just shot themselves in foot".
railGUN said:
except you aren't choosing functionality. by not updating you get a perfectly reasonable functionality, several years worth of games and other os.
the fact that future as yet unreleased games that require a new firmware version don't work is irrelevant. its exactly the same as if all new ps3 games only ran on the slim. i dont see how that would be illegal, so long as they were sold as such.
evilartimus
Neo Member
Thank You! This is the exact reason this update pisses me off.missile said:
Except people bought the PS3 under the condition that the PS3 was capable of doing both at the same time; the PS3 wasn't marketed as "capable of running Linux OR new games"; Sony is introducing a contingency and is forcing you to choose which functionality you want.panda21 said:
Your example of the Wii and the Nunchuck is flawed because the Wii isn't marketed as being capable of playing games that require the Nunchuck without a Nunchuck. The PS3 is marketed as being able to utilize Other OS AND having total library compatibility with itself. In this example, Sony is now forcing its userbase to pick between two features.
Sony is providing you a choice, yes, but regardless of which choice you pick you will end up with less features than you had last week.
Haint
Member
panda21 said:
But that is the whole point of this potential plaintiff argument--they are effectively removing functionality in either situation. Your choice is to either lose OtherOS or the ability to play new physical media. These accessory-dependent examples are irrelevant because they do not feature this dichotomy of loss and gain. Obviously there is no loss of advertised Wii functionality in adding a Motion Plus dongle, the situation simply doesn't apply. I believe your difference is based on the assumption Sony has the right to release "Playstation 3 Software" that is not playable on "Playstation 3 Hardware" (effectively of their choosing) because they said so. This argument's point is that there are likely several consumer laws in place that says that isn't so. They can not force consumers to either give up a feature (that may have a high value for some people) in order to continue using a product as it was represented (e.g. play past, present, and future Blu-Ray Discs/Playstation 3 software).
Your argument is basically like Samsung selling you a "CD/DVD Player" (explicitly marketed as such) and later saying you have to do an update that removes the CD functionality if you want to continue playing DVD's. If you can't see the wrong in that and consider it black and white legal, God help us all if there are many more like you out there. I don't know how to put it any simpler.
missile said:
It's very easy to rebut that article.
Sony's "three pillars" for the PlayStation in 2010 are:
- 3D gaming;
- Motion controller;
- Paid subscription to PSN;
You can't look at that list and say Sony haven't been paying attention to what their customers want. Come on, those things are exactly what people have been asking for!
Massa said:
You forgot what a huge victory Bluray was also. People dont realize that everything has a unique business model. A sucess of Bluray is worth more than being in 2nd place in overall console install base.
That article is stated from a small point of view. Bigger picture of what sony has accomplished and there vision is very different.
3D/Bluray/TV. All part of a bigger vision.
This Looom and dooms theorist crack me up. :lol
My next article is going ot be how Honda Civics are selling more than porchues. Hence , Porchue is going down :lol
OldJadedGamer
Banned
beast786 said:
Not really since other systems had cross game chat from launch.
OldJadedGamer said:
But the other system didnt had features that PS3 had either HDMI port, Internet etc etc. And since then, background downloading and others have been implemented that were at that time more important.
Think about it. You are comparing it to a Free vs Paid service. And want everything that Paid service proivde.
Kalren said:
But they're not removing BC for the older models, why would I even need to judge whether it's reasonable or not? Reasonable for whom?
As for OtherOS, it's probably reasonable for Sony because they probably don't want the system hacked, it's probably not reasonable for the few who use otherOS, for those who don't use it like myself, why should I even give a shit either way? Not to mention it's fucking hypothetical, you can ask the same question on a number of other features, some I care about, and some I don't.
At the end of the day, it's a matter of what I value more, I've never used it, I have no plan of ever using it, I'm not sure why it's there in the first place, I've never considered my PS3 to be some sort of PC, to me it's a fucking game console/blu-ray player.
On the other hand, I don't want the system hacked because pirates will try to exploit those very hacks, I fucking hate pirates because they're FUCKING THIEVES, so if removing it would shut the door in the faces of hackers and prevent those hacks which pirates might try to exploit, why should I need to join the outrage?
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
I just realized it's April Fools Day and 3.2.1...Is just like the last part of a countdown, or in our case, the first part of a meltdown:lol
Kittonwy said:On the other hand, I don't want the system hacked because pirates will try to exploit those very hacks, I fucking hate pirates because they're FUCKING THIEVES, so if removing it would shut the door in the faces of hackers and prevent those hacks which pirates might try to exploit, why should I need to join the outrage?
I wouldn't mind so much if there was an even mildly plausible route to piracy, especially if piracy was actually happening. Preventing the geohot hack would just require a simple patch to the hypervisor that wouldn't even impact the linux kernel.
But instead of taking the simple step of patching a minor hole that can't even be used for piracy, Sony shat their pants and removed OtherOS completely.
I hate to say it, but it really looks like they were just looking for an excuse to get rid of it now that Kutaragi's gone, since their reasoning for removing it from the Slim was weak as hell.
Zero-Crescent
Member
I think Phil Harrison's departure contributed more to the shift in the political climate regarding Linux, since publicly, he seemed to be the primary champion of that particular feature. Of course, Linux in general, seems to be a far bigger deal in Europe than in Japan and America.androvsky said:
.panda21 said:
This might be a dickish move, but there's no way that this is illegal.
You aren't making any sense. There is no game in existance that requires firmware 3.21 so it's impossible for you to already own one.ChronicleX said:
All the games you owned when firmware 3.21 released still would work after it released. Nor are you losing the ability to play games released after firmware 3.21 if you choose not to upgrade: you never had that ability before firmware 3.21, either.
Installing firmware 3.21 gains you the ability to play games released after 3.21. Not installing it doesn't mean that you lose that ability, but that you don't gain that ability.