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[Visualante]

Sony just shot themselves in the foot.

edit. Sent SCEE's academic liason, Sarah Lemarié a mail about what happens now for Cell developers. Will post the response when it hits.

 

[DarkJC]

Even for the front end on the XMB? I realize it would probably be tiny, if anything, but maybe that's all they need? I mean, the obvious answer is Sony doesn't want a situation like the PSP to happen again, but it's nice to entertain the thought that there might be benefits to the us users at the same time, lol. Gah, who knows :/

No, its like dual booting on your normal computer. The linux partition coexisting with your windows partition doesn't take up any resources in windows.

 

[wsippel]

No, that's not what happened. With the December 2007 Wii update, Photo Channel 1.1 yanked Mp3 for all people who wanted to stay on the latest version and replaced it with AAC support. It's not hardware. Don't know what's up with your Wii. I mean, it was optional if you didn't update. But I would imagine that has more to do with Nintendo's system infrastructure.

It actually happened a lot longer ago than I thought.

I know. But you don't have to update the Photo Channel. It's not a mandatory update in any way. You either keep what you paid for (MP3 support), or you'll selectively update a specific piece of the software, lose some old and get some new features. Sure, it sucks, but once again: It's optional. You don't have to update and are still able to run the latest firmware and play the latest games. You lose absolutely nothing by not updating. You're even free to downgrade to Photo Channel 1.0 if you updated by accident and/ or consider the updates less important or valuable than MP3 support.

 

[PixelJunkie]

It sucks for people that actually use it, although I assume that is a small minority. Its really not that much different than MS banning hacked consoles from XBL though. One is preventative, while the other is retroactive.

 

[RocketDarkness]

It sucks for people that actually use it, although I assume that is a small minority. Its really not that much different than MS banning hacked consoles from XBL though. One is preventative, while the other is retroactive.

What? No. That's stupid. Your logic is stupid.

 

[Speevy]

I can only figure Sony knows something about the holes in their system which hackers will blow wide open in the coming months.

Otherwise, why bother?

 

[KillerAJD]

No, its like dual booting on your normal computer. The linux partition coexisting with your windows partition doesn't take up any resources in windows.

Ah, ok. But how do they deal with people who replace the HDD? Where is the information for the hooks into OtherOS stored? Is that the extra stuff I had to download when I tried it out myself? Also, I'm probably way off base with this, you're welcome to yell at me if you find me unbearable, lol.

 

[DCharlie]

Not really. I see it as an inevitability once geohot's attack surfaced. I wouldn't want Sony to waste time with plugging holes here and there. I had a job like that for a few months. It's a waste of my time. I much rather do something more useful.

have to disagree, it sucks. sorry!

 

[Frank "Trashman" Reynolds]

It sucks for people that actually use it, although I assume that is a small minority. Its really not that much different than MS banning hacked consoles from XBL though. One is preventative, while the other is retroactive.

You're comparing piracy to using OtherOS? Really?

 

[DarkoMaledictus]

So what's the next feature that we already have on the cutting board next? Free online play?

Nah i'm guessing its bluray movie playback... nothing big ;p...

 

[zedge]

Anything else in this update? I don't care about linux.

 

[MrPliskin]

Got OtherOS installed. Screw Sony.

Let's hope geohot gets the PS3 fully hacked. I'm not budging now, cos I'm pretty sure the opensource community can write a better fucking OS than Sony can these days.

I can understand your frustration, I share a lot of it (as I too have a large collection of Blu-Rays that don't work, and a history of my own peeves with the OS). Still, I don't really think that hoping for an open source community would be the best thing for the PS3. I know it's touchy ground, but I have a strong belief that a lot more negative baggage comes from it. Hell, look what it's already caused just because geohot was trying to crack it, now people are getting Linux stripped away.

I think things would only get worse with more effort.

PS: I'll PM you whenever my Blu-Ray fix idea get's posted on Share so we can assemble the GAF forces and vote that shit straight to the top. I REFUSE to listen to Oprah Fucking Winfrey narrate Life. FUCK THAT.

 

[Gaogaogao]

I really wanted to install linux too...

 

[DarkJC]

Ah, ok. But how do they deal with people who replace the HDD? Where is the information for the hooks into OtherOS stored? Is that the extra stuff I had to download when I tried it out myself? Also, I'm probably way off base with this, you're welcome to yell at me if you find me unbearable, lol.

It's no problem. Essentially, the GameOS has an "OtherOS" install feature that includes drivers etc for linux to install on the machine. During the install process, the drive is partitioned into two partitions, one for the GameOS, one for OtherOS, so there's nothing hard drive specific about it. If people get a new hard drive, they can run the same partitioning process on the new drive.

So, while OtherOS doesn't take up memory when the GameOS is running, what this WILL do is free up space in the PS3 firmware (as it includes the appropriate drivers and things for the OtherOS install). How much space is anyones guess.

 

[patsu]

I can only figure Sony knows something about the holes in their system which hackers will blow wide open in the coming months.

Otherwise, why bother?

Yes, it's a risk because while the hardware is safe, people can use it to attack Playstation Network and other DRMs outside GameOS. So it's technically better to eradicate the threat from the get go.

Think about value added PSN services. Those future apps would be at risk.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

You're comparing piracy to using OtherOS? Really?

Judging from other threads, that's a bannable implication I believe.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

People saying "this is useless." "who the hell uses this?" "haha who cares?" kind of need to get over themselves.

 

[Dr Bad Dude PHD]

The average consumer is going to fucking lose their shit when they see this on the front page of the newspaper tomorrow.


Wasn't it just recently that little hacker kid was bragging about how he has hacked his ps3 through Linux? Pretty fucking obvious why Sony is doing this, piracy has already killed their handheld.

 

[PixelJunkie]

What? No. That's stupid. Your logic is stupid.

Why because both are trying to stop piracy?

Calling another's statement stupid or logical doesn't add anything intelligible though anyway.

You're comparing piracy to using OtherOS? Really?

Not in any way shape or form, but its pretty obvious why Sony is doing this.

 

[KillerAJD]

It's no problem. Essentially, the GameOS has an "OtherOS" install feature that includes drivers etc for linux to install on the machine. During the install process, the drive is partitioned into two partitions, one for the GameOS, one for OtherOS, so there's nothing hard drive specific about it. If people get a new hard drive, they can run the same partitioning process on the new drive.

So, while OtherOS doesn't take up memory when the GameOS is running, what this WILL do is free up space in the PS3 firmware (as it includes the appropriate drivers and things for the OtherOS install). How much space is anyones guess.

Aha! A connection, pardon my ignorance before, but this is what I was getting at, :lol. Thanks for being patient with me about it Even though I love computers, there is still shit I just don't understand, lol.

 

[jiggles]

The average consumer is going to fucking lose their shit when they see this on the front page of the newspaper tomorrow.

:lol

 

[DarkJC]

Aha! A connection, pardon my ignorance before, but this is what I was getting at, :lol. Thanks for being patient with me about it Even though I love computers, there is still shit I just don't understand, lol.

Ohh sorry! When you said freeing up memory, I thought you meant freeing up RAM in use when the GameOS is running.

 

[JoseJX]

There's bound to be someone affected but I am sorry to announced to you that you're of the few unlocky drop of water in the ocean. Couldn't you have your thing done on PC? (I know your research is started now but I can't really imagine a graduate work not doable for someone not owning a PS3).

My graduate work has to do with using streaming architectures like the CBE to accelerate DSP functions automatically. I could start all over using GPUs, but then I'd have wasted all of the time I've spent on the CBE (and the architecture is quite different).

It really looks like I won't be able to play new PS3/PSN games until I graduate. Sorry, but that's kind of more important than gaming. This is a terrible decision on Sony's part, at least from my perspective.

Edit: And just to be clear, I do understand that my position isn't everyone's. It just sucks that Sony is removing a feature that I explicitly paid for with the intent to use.

 

[Solid Moustache]

Now that I think about it, I shouldn't rush when the next-gen comes and I'll only buy the console that has homebrew or simply stick to PC gaming.

 

[colinp]

So you say they are over-reacting basically.

You don't really know everything that's going on behind the curtains I assume. As I don't either. But it simply makes sense to believe they felt the need to do it no matter the points you bring up about systems YLOD'ing and such.

I don't believe removing features is something any company would do lightly. So it's logical to assume they had no other choice.

This reminds me of when the US invaded Iraq and the reasoning went something like this:

You don't really know everything that's going on behind the curtains I assume. As I don't either. But it simply makes sense to believe they felt the need to do it because of WMDs.

I don't believe invading a country is something any country would do lightly. So it's logical to assume they had no other choice.

Well, we all know what happened after that!

 

[Frank "Trashman" Reynolds]

Why because both are trying to stop piracy?

Calling another's statement stupid or logical doesn't add anything intelligible though anyway.

Banning modded consoles, used to play pirated games, from XBL is trying to stop piracey. Eeerrr, well at least to stop piracey while connected to XBL lol.

Removing OtherOS isn't just punishing pirates (who don't even exist yet). It's punishing anyone that uses OtherOS when they haven't pirated shit.

Fuck Sony.

 

[RomanticHeroX]

What! How fucking dare Sony remove a feature that I never personally use! If I actually had a PS3 (still waiting on 500GB BC under $100) I'd hack it just to make a point. Linux users hold grudges Sony, I hope you realize how many people you've just pissed off, and how quickly word of mouth will spread that you can no longer dual boot a PS3. It's fucking over.

 

[Speevy]

tbh all hacking can be used for legitimate and illegitimate purposes, at least eventually.


Just because hackers aren't clever enough to design a web browser for Xbox Live doesn't make it any different.

 

[Azure Dream]

I know. But you don't have to update the Photo Channel. It's not a mandatory update in any way. You either keep what you paid for (MP3 support), or you'll selectively update a specific piece of the software, lose some old and get some new features. Sure, it sucks, but once again: It's optional. You don't have to update and are still able to run the latest firmware and play the latest games. You lose absolutely nothing by not updating. You're even free to downgrade to Photo Channel 1.0 if you updated by accident and/ or consider the updates less important or valuable than MP3 support.

Actually, I think they at one point automatically upgraded the Photo Channel during one of the firmware updates. People who had been specifically avoiding the channel update bitterly complained, which is why they offered the downgrade option.

Edit: Can't find evidence, but I do remember people getting angry over it. All Wiis after late 2007 became bundled with a non-downgradable v1.1 Photo Channel, on a side note.

 

[patsu]

Banning modded consoles, used to play pirated games, from XBL is trying to stop piracey. Eeerrr, well at least to stop piracey while connected to XBL lol.

Removing OtherOS isn't just punishing pirates (who don't even exist yet). It's punishing anyone that uses OtherOS when they haven't pirated shit.

Fuck Sony.

The problem is banning modded consoles may also end up banning legit gamers (as the hackers' techniques become more sophisticated). Some regular folks may be skewered while Sony go on a hacker hunt, like what MS ended up doing.

It is technically very difficult to detect the offenders. There will be casualties either way. IMHO, it is better to nip it at the bud.

 

[Chris R]

Lazy solution to a non existant problem as of now. Surley Sony should be able to find and fix the problem in code before anything serious happens on geohosts side.

 

[Massa]

Let's be honest. Doesn't it suck anyway?

It's not that great as a desktop computer replacement (but then again, people seem to like netbooks and they suck as well).

For someone wanting to play around with Cell's architecture it was an amazing feature.

 

[wsippel]

There's bound to be someone affected but I am sorry to announced to you that you're of the few unlocky drop of water in the ocean. Couldn't you have your thing done on PC? (I know your research is started now but I can't really imagine a graduate work not doable for someone not owning a PS3)

.

He wrote that he did research on CBE development (CELL Broadband Engine). There are no CBE based PCs. The PS3 is (or was) pretty much the only cheap device for that kind of stuff. A PC is usually either x86 or amd64, not CBE. And emulating a CBE, while possible, is so very, very slow that it's not really viable. Believe me, I worked on amd64 development when there were no amd64 CPUs available, so I had to use emulation, and it was so terribly slow that I would never want to do anything like that ever again. Emulating a slow system on a fast host might end up being tedious, but emulating powerful hardware on a comparable or even less powerful host is terrible. It's like emulating a PS3 on a 233MHz Pentium MMX. Possible, but nothing I'd recommend to anyone but the biggest masochists.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Guess I won't be updating my PS3 or purchasing anymore games for this piece of shit. If nothing happens with homebrew in the next few months I might just get rid of the thing.

What a diva. And you're waiting on homebrew what? Most of the things can be done on PC (emulators and blu ray fixes). Just don't tell me you're arguing for piracy. Either way you are over reacting. Get rid of the POS (IYO?), who cares.

 

[Massa]

The average consumer is going to fucking lose their shit when they see this on the front page of the newspaper tomorrow.

Well, they're not going to give a fuck because the chances of them owning a PS3 are not that high to begin with.

 

[Dead Man]

It doesn't effect me personally, but still is a bit shit by Sony. What else has had features removed after sale?

 

[MikeE21286]

good, I couldn't care any less about the Other OS feature, and if it makes the platform more secure then I'm all for it.

 

[Diablos]

If hackers fully exploit the PS3 I'm sure they can come up with some kind of downgrader and Sony will look dumb for doing this as a result.

I never used the Other OS feature, but some people do and it's unfortunate that they'll be shut out.

 

[impirius]

I DON'T USE THIS FEATURE SO IT'S STUPID, LOL

 

[PixelJunkie]

Banning modded consoles, used to play pirated games, from XBL is trying to stop piracey. Eeerrr, well at least to stop piracey while connected to XBL lol.

Removing OtherOS isn't just punishing pirates (who don't even exist yet). It's punishing anyone that uses OtherOS when they haven't pirated shit.

Fuck Sony.

Right, I understand that argument, but Sony has to already be gun shy from the PSP. And this still effects a small minority, with many more fighting in their defense because they lose a feature they have never used, versus making sure the platform is supported by 3rd parties. If piracy becomes as rampant on the PS3 as the PSP, then Sony will indeed lose any ground they have to stand on with 3rd parties. Deontological arguments aside its a necessary evil.

 

[Speevy]

What else has had features removed after sale?

Every console with patches so far?

 

[LiquidMetal14]

If hackers fully exploit the PS3 I'm sure they can come up with some kind of downgrader and Sony will look dumb for doing this as a result.

I never used the Other OS feature, but some people do and it's unfortunate that they'll be shut out.

Then every one wins! I think?

 

[Mushroom021]

This is ridicuous... how could they take away the bluray/gaming capabilities anyways? Did anyone really buy into this.

 

[Frank "Trashman" Reynolds]

good, I couldn't care any less about the Other OS feature, and if it makes the platform more secure then I'm all for it.

I hope Sony requires you to be connected to PSN to play any game on your system, and then the moment you lose internet connectivity for even a second it boots you out to the XMB. Whatever makes the platform more secure then I'm all for it.

 

[Somnid]

I hope Sony requires you to be connected to PSN to play any game on your system, and then the moment you lose internet connectivity for even a second it boots you out to the XMB. Whatever makes the platform more secure then I'm all for it.

Hey, if hackers have their way this is the future.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

I hope Sony requires you to be connected to PSN to play any game on your system, and then the moment you lose internet connectivity for even a second it boots you out to the XMB. Whatever makes the platform more secure then I'm all for it.

Now we're going to the extreme. But let's assume it's going to happen to make you happy.

 

[WEGGLES]

Hey guys. The PS3 only does everything!

PS2 games... wait.
Other OSs... wait.
Memory Card reader... wait.

P. sure it'd be a good idea to stop saying "It only does everything" when you continuously take out features and add nothing.

 

[Frank "Trashman" Reynolds]

Right, I understand that argument, but Sony has to already be gun shy from the PSP. And this still effects a small minority, with many more fighting in their defense because they lose a feature they have never used, versus making sure the platform is supported by 3rd parties. If piracy becomes as rampant on the PS3 as the PSP, then Sony will indeed lose any ground they have to stand on with 3rd parties. Deontological arguments aside its a necessary evil.

Piracy is rampant on other handhelds like the DS, which last I checked is doing pretty good. It has been rampant on other Sony hardware that still did very well also. lol I think the PSP has bigger issues preventing 3rd parties from going crazy than just piracy.

I don't even own a PSP anymore. What has happened with the Go? Is there piracy on that yet? If there isn't, if Sony discontinued all models of the PSP except for the Go, would that bring 3rd parties back to the system? My guess is no.

 

[Fox Mulder]

I DON'T USE THIS FEATURE SO IT'S STUPID, LOL

it's like, no different than MS making their dashboard better!

I never used this feature, but I'm not a fan of companies using forced firmware upgrades to remove shit.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Hey guys. The PS3 only does everything!

PS2 games... wait.
Other OSs... wait.
Memory Card reader... wait.

P. sure it'd be a good idea to stop saying "It only does everything" when you continuously take out features and add nothing.

Yeah... let's not get carried away and say something stupid now...