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PS3 Firmware Update 3.21 of preventing piracy by removing Linux.
- Thread starter Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
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MikeE21286
Member
Frank "Trashman" Reynolds said:
I love how half of GAF acts as though they actual have this other OS even installed on their PS3.
Another classic case of the internet overreacting
My statement still stands. I obviously don't care about other OS, so I don't care if they remove it to make the platform more secure. I didn't say that any measure they would take to make the platform more secure would be worth it. Don't try and spin my words....
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
EVERYONE DOES NOW. EVERYTHING.inner-G said:
Frank "Trashman" Reynolds
Banned
Metalmurphy said:
Yeah, they have added stuff like access to a shitty friends list while in game. Oh, and Home. Home is awesome, right?
When they add something good like cross game invites/voice chat and parties let me know.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Ok now I'm beggining to think you're a troll. Never see you in PS3 threads and you're being a diva. Or do you think this reaction of yours is justified? Go on......Frank "Trashman" Reynolds said:
At present time, always-online business models are significantly more profitable then sales-centric ones.Somnid said:
It's debatable whether that's because of hackers or something else, but results are there.
Anyway for my 2c, I am not sure this is piracy related at all.
It's a documented fact it was removed from Slim due to added maintenance costs, and phase-out pattern is virtually identical to PS2-hardware in PS3. It's entirely possible this would have happened with or without the hacks.
MikeE21286
Member
Archaix said:
Look, most of the people on here are purely arguing on principal. What's this gonna affect, like 500-1000 people at most to benefit the remaing 30+ million people.
Get over yourself.
MikeE21286 said:
Sure, you simply said it's ok to remove the features you don't care about but apparently not the ones you do care about.
Sony advertised OtherOS as a PS3 feature. The fact you don't care about it is irrelevant, just as it's irrelevant that I don't care about Blu-Ray movie playback or photo gallery apps.
Unknown Soldier
Member
The hyperventilating in this thread is pretty awesome. :lol
Fact: The PS3 Slim already had Linux support pulled. The writing was on the wall at that point. There are no longer any PS3s for sale which ever had Linux support.
Fact: The PS3 Linux implementation was so crippled as to be virtually useless. From the beginning, Sony thought about nothing but piracy and so the PS3 Linux was so locked down it was funny. Not even being able to pretend there was a GPU was the best part because the hypervisor saw to it that it didn't exist in the Linux environment.
Fact: Sony has been crazed paranoid about piracy ever since their experience with the PSP. It is not an exaggeration to claim that piracy was at least 75% of the nails in that machine's coffin. PSP hardware sales have never been poor, in fact it would be considered as quite successful by any metric other than Nintendo's insane portable sales numbers. What's killing PSP is nonexistent software sales, because everyone and their mother pirates PSP games.
So, these 3 facts point to an unavoidable truth. The moment that Geohot guy posted on the Internet that he had found an exploit to access the hypervisor from the Linux environment, it was over. Sony was not going to risk another PSP-like situation with the PS3, they would prefer to shut down the Playstation division and link all the PS3s in the world into Skynet and launch nuclear missiles to bring about the end of mankind rather than allow piracy on the PS3. That's how apeshit insane paranoid they are about piracy. Remember, this is the Sony that thought installing rootkits on the computers of Sony music CD owners was actually a good idea.
At this point I'm just glad that Sony isn't releasing firmwares that disable all phat PS3s entirely, requiring phat owners to trade them in for Slims at no charge if they wanted to keep using their consoles. :lol
Fact: The PS3 Slim already had Linux support pulled. The writing was on the wall at that point. There are no longer any PS3s for sale which ever had Linux support.
Fact: The PS3 Linux implementation was so crippled as to be virtually useless. From the beginning, Sony thought about nothing but piracy and so the PS3 Linux was so locked down it was funny. Not even being able to pretend there was a GPU was the best part because the hypervisor saw to it that it didn't exist in the Linux environment.
Fact: Sony has been crazed paranoid about piracy ever since their experience with the PSP. It is not an exaggeration to claim that piracy was at least 75% of the nails in that machine's coffin. PSP hardware sales have never been poor, in fact it would be considered as quite successful by any metric other than Nintendo's insane portable sales numbers. What's killing PSP is nonexistent software sales, because everyone and their mother pirates PSP games.
So, these 3 facts point to an unavoidable truth. The moment that Geohot guy posted on the Internet that he had found an exploit to access the hypervisor from the Linux environment, it was over. Sony was not going to risk another PSP-like situation with the PS3, they would prefer to shut down the Playstation division and link all the PS3s in the world into Skynet and launch nuclear missiles to bring about the end of mankind rather than allow piracy on the PS3. That's how apeshit insane paranoid they are about piracy. Remember, this is the Sony that thought installing rootkits on the computers of Sony music CD owners was actually a good idea.
At this point I'm just glad that Sony isn't releasing firmwares that disable all phat PS3s entirely, requiring phat owners to trade them in for Slims at no charge if they wanted to keep using their consoles. :lol
Frank "Trashman" Reynolds said:
If they didn't have reason to believe a potential security flaw was present, they wouldn't bother removing OtherOS support. What would be the point? So apparently they have some motivation for this. Would you rather Sony wait until after an exploit is made public - you know, when it's too late - to try to contain the damage?
MikeE21286
Member
JoseJX said:I don't see how it benefits anyone. Sorry that I'm angry?
have you looked at the PSP lately?
WickedLaharl
Member
MikeE21286 said:
how about you take your own advice?
Frank "Trashman" Reynolds
Banned
LiquidMetal14 said:
So now I'm a troll because I'm not happy with the way PSN has progressed and I don't want to lose a feature I do use?
Do I need to post a pic of me cuddling with my PS3 to get your approval?
MikeE21286
Member
Massa said:
piracy sure was a factor, not the only one of course, but a large factor nonetheless.
Metalmurphy
Member
Frank "Trashman" Reynolds said:
Wow... are you serious? They added a lot of stuff since the PS3 launched. And I do mean ALOT... too much even for me to remember it all.
Superificial stuff like trophies and text chat rooms don't make up for PS2 BC or cross game chat. :[Metalmurphy said:
Massa said:
Still shitty that customers buying the latest PS3 will be able to do less than those who bought it first.
It's a nice change of pace, though, to see early adopters not getting hosed.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Oh, Sony.
This is only going to make the hackers actually try.
This is only going to make the hackers actually try.
Metalmurphy
Member
WEGGLES said:
Adding DNLA3 support made up for pretty much everything IMO.
Specially since my PS2 still works
StealthGoblin
Banned
Doesn't bother me in the slightest.
Segata Sanshiro said:
So true lol. "Other OS" is the only thing that kept the hackers that only want Linux from hacking the PS3 to get Linux on.
Metalmurphy said:Adding DNLA3 support made up for pretty much everything IMO.Specially since my PS2 still works
My PS2 developed a habit of making nice circles on the bottom of my games.
Dreamgazer
Member
Why are we all still arguing here?
Should we not join up and form an army to raid those darn hackers who caused this security threat? Surely if we had the courage to be rid of geohot and those hypervisor hacked thread - Sony would not have to result to such a measure.
To arms, brothers! :lol
Should we not join up and form an army to raid those darn hackers who caused this security threat? Surely if we had the courage to be rid of geohot and those hypervisor hacked thread - Sony would not have to result to such a measure.
To arms, brothers! :lol
Unknown Soldier
Member
Massa said:
PSP has NEVER sold poorly, except for PSP Go Fuck Yourself. The PSP's hardware sales numbers have always been way out of proportion with it's software sales numbers, because it was quite literally hacked the day after it launched.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
No, they haven't been making much of an effort. Know how I know? Because the PS3 hasn't been hacked, that's how.Archaix said:
shagg_187 said:
this is a serious issue. i never used linux on my launch 20gb, and probably never would, but this chipping away at a person's rights drives me nuts.
When they removed Other OS, I did nothing, for I didn't use Other OS. When they removed SACD, I did nothing, for I don't have any SACD's. When they removed external hard drive support, memory cards, USB cameras, I did nothing, for I never use these features, and when they came for free PSN multiplayer, I was alone, because I couldn't log in to find anyone to stand up for me.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Valkyr Junkie said:
Man, so even if you have a partition you can't use it?
This is so stupid. The "Phats" are already out of production, so why do this? Ugh.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
ITT: The doublethink train keeps rolling.
The first thing I did when I put a 250GB HDD in my launch PS3 was install Linux. It's convenient and it's good for coding practice. It'd never be a better computer than my old Q9450 w/ 4GB ram (which has now been long-sold), but where else would I practice my Cell programming?
I took my PS3 home in February and probably won't touch it until at least Summer 2011. After the ugly XMB redesign, whole calendar SNAFU and now this, I guess it'll be an offline-only machine from now on. Considering it was primarily used as a PS2 upscaler and BD player it's probably for the best too.
The first thing I did when I put a 250GB HDD in my launch PS3 was install Linux. It's convenient and it's good for coding practice. It'd never be a better computer than my old Q9450 w/ 4GB ram (which has now been long-sold), but where else would I practice my Cell programming?
I took my PS3 home in February and probably won't touch it until at least Summer 2011. After the ugly XMB redesign, whole calendar SNAFU and now this, I guess it'll be an offline-only machine from now on. Considering it was primarily used as a PS2 upscaler and BD player it's probably for the best too.
Frank "Trashman" Reynolds
Banned
Metalmurphy said:
Too much in your case. Not impressive enough for me to care in my case. Trying to play multiplayer games over PSN with friends is an exercise in frustration. Half the time we end up doing 3 way calling on our cells because someone gets put on the other team (no standard party system) or someone gets disconnected... at which point its hard trying to all get back into the same game and be on the same team because we can't chat until we're in the damn game.
Cell phone > PSN.
MikeE21286 said:
Yeah, it's a portable system with a bad selection of portable games when compared to the competition (DS and iPhone, both also suffering pretty badly from piracy). Sony has also muddied the market by releasing the terrible PSP Go and removing all incentive for existing users to keep buying retail UMD games. Piracy isn't the problem with the PSP, it's the poor market positioning of the device and the general lack of public support because of it. Why should casual gamers buy a PSP? Nintendo and Apple have sold their devices well and reaped the benefits.
tldr - Piracy isn't the problem on the PSP.
Sorry for the off topic rant.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
I repeat: if the best of the hacking community had been trying, the PS3 would have been cracked.expy said:
Now, I'm not saying the OtherOS was the main reason they haven't been trying, a lot of it has to do with the PS3 not being a very popular system in general for the first couple years, but this is pretty much throwing down the gauntlet.
Sorry, but I'm not so infatuated with Sony that I think their security is tighter than the Pentagon's.
JoseJX said:
you couldn't be more wrong. i can tell you from first hand, second hand, and third hand accounts that piracy has scared off probably over 90% of potential development for psp. publishers and devs don't want to touch this machine anymore. there is an awful lot of software, good and bad, that would exist for the psp and doesn't specifically because of piracy.
Dreamgazer
Member
Sony should have just not enabled security of any kind.
No security = no security concerns = everyone happy.
This whole idea of better security on systems is just asking for trouble.
No security = no security concerns = everyone happy.
This whole idea of better security on systems is just asking for trouble.
sharath_kumar
Neo Member
Segata Sanshiro said:
Because running linux on hypervisor-crippled hardware completely satisfies them. Doesn't it?
Anyways, all the so-called breakthroughs in getting past hypervisor in PS3 originated because of PS3 supporting Linux. It seems reasonable for Sony to remove this support.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Segata Sanshiro said:
You are unfortunately wrong here. The PS3 hasn't been hacked because the pirates simply haven't found a vector. Every hack of a closed system requires a point of entry, a flaw that can be exploited. Actually, the 360's hypervisor hasn't been hacked either, all existing 360 hacks are done by exploiting the DVD-ROM drive, a vulnerable off-the-shelf component. There's no way to exploit the PS3's Blu-ray drive in the same way because it's a custom Sony drive which is only made for the PS3 and no other machine.
Both the PS3 and 360 have stood hard and fast against hacking because Sony and MS invested a lot of time and effort into locking that shit down airtight and the hypervisor was the key because it runs below the operating system level. 360 and PS3 firmware updates necessarily cannot update, modify, or even touch the hypervisor, they don't even know it exists. The operating system itself is managed code on the 360 and PS3, and game code runs on even tighter restrictions.
Having Linux on the PS3 was always inherently insecure, but Sony was willing to risk it before since they could check a checkbox or someshit when PS3 launched that MS couldn't. Now everyone knows PS3 Linux is a joke anyways, and the reality is that Sony loses money on every PS3 so any PS3 they sell to someone who wants to run Linux and not games, they are actually pissing money away, which is probably one reason why Linux support was already removed from the Slim.
Archaix said:
The smart ones have been content with playing with linux. Take that from them and you'll suddenly see a much larger crowd with much deeper technical backgrounds than geohot have at it.
And as an added bonus, they won't be hacking it just because it'd be cool if it ran linux. They'll be hacking it because they're pissed.