sono
Gold Member
That is a good point. It was literally years until you could actually get one.
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PS5 is already PlayStation's most successful Console by $ in the US & 3rd most successful Console overall
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Cakeboxer
Gold Member
Unfortunately. It won't be tomorrow, but it will happen.
RetroGamingUK
Member
Good points, but EA won’t drop FC support for PS4 until PS6 launches.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
No, it's clear after the last year that Xbox is bowing out and that's just the reality we are in. I was hoping they would put up more of a fight in the console space but they have thrown in the towel on hardware it seems.
No stock available in Europe or UK. US seems to be bad too.
Their game output seems to be improving greatly. Last year was awesome. This year looks to be pretty insane.
This gen has been pretty bad for output from Sony, imo. You don't have to agree and that's fine
Your talking points were not that Microsoft has been bad up to this point. You were singing their praises up until recently only now that it has dawned on you that it's game over for them, you're now saying Sony is in the same boat for output.
It's devoid of reality.
Since 2020:
TLOUP2
Ghost of Tsushima
Dreams
Spider-Man Miles Morales
Spider-Man 2
Horizon Forbidden West
God of War Ragnarok
Gran Turismo 7
Demon's Souls remake
Astro Bot
Helldivers 2
Rise of the Ronin
Stellar Blade
Returnal
Keep telling yourself that Sony's output has been bad... 14 games in 4 years is bad? Not even counting solid remakes like TLOUP1 and rematers like Horizon Zero Dawn Remaster or less than solid ones like Until Dawn, though looks largely fixed now. If even half of these games had released on Xbox Series you would be claiming it was a renaissance for Microsoft.
RetroGamingUK
Member
I think the issue regarding quality games this generation has been exacibated by the huge decline in quality third party Western AAA output.
The likes of EA, Ubisoft and Bethesda have gone to shit.
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Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Where are you getting that info? They didn't put CF25 on PS4 or NHL25. CF25 didn't have a predecessor on PS4 but NHL did with NHL24.
CF25 became the best selling sports game of all time in the US without PS4.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Spoiler, they've always been shit...
RetroGamingUK
Member
I was on about the soccer games, the jewel in EA’s (now battered) crown.
Team Andromeda
Member
It makes me laugh when people say consoles are dead, especially those on XboxEra.
DavidGzz
Gold Member
Reviews are good. Sales...I mean they have no competition so sales are going to go to the product that is worth buying since console gamers aren't going anywhere. PS4 gen was waaaaay better speaking of game output. I'd be bored out of my mind if I was console only this gen. I'd probably be reading more books which isn't a bad thing. But Steam exists, so I am good.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
You couldn't play every GOTY nominee on Steam this year. The only place where you could play every one was PS5.
This myth of this vast array of PC exclusive bangers is hilarious.
DavidGzz
Gold Member
But I will only buy exclusives so most of the time the PS5 and now the Pro are collecting dust. I don't care about kiddie games so Astrobot doesn't exist. I am talking about my personal preferences. And I've played countless PC exclusives. I have way more hours in random vampire survivor like games, Last Epoch, Enshrouded, etc than all of PS5 exclusives combined. The most hours I've logged on PS5 is on PS4 games. TLOU2, God of War, and Bloodborne.
Then you have WeMod, which is modern day Gameshark, and mods and it's not even close.
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TheGodfather07
Member
Because its true? units sold wise, its ahead of PS4 and only behind the mighty PS2 by around 1m units launch aligned. Don't know why people are getting so pissy about it. This is factual data. Yeah the first party live service disaster is disappointing but this is a sales thread.
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Cyborg
Member
Im not pissy
I love my PS5 and it deserves all the succes. It gave me Astro Bot and Stellar Blade
RetroGamingUK
Member
You’re ignoring high unit sales too.
TheGodfather07
Member
Im not pissy
Like I said, its not just by dollars but also units is impressive too. Much better than I would have thought. I think sony have been pretty shit this generation so I'm surprised by the numbers. Shows how strong the brand is. GTA6 launch month is gonna be insane!
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Wait until you find out how they measure the success of movies.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
He doesn’t get this.
The box office is just a simple metric that shows a part of the story. Nevertheless, it is much easier, as you can look at the average ticket prices and inflate them over the years. Hardware's pricing is more complicated.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Another list war with games that half are cross gen. Just look at the polls on this forum and comments from users over the last week. The vast majority of this enthusiast forum think this generation has been poor from Sony.
It's like anyone who shares this opinion is incorrect to you guys, but evidence shows its how the majority feels.
RetroGamingUK
Member
Look outside the GAF bubble and look at the SALES.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Meanwhile, the market’s response doesn’t agree with the enthusiast board and that holds far more weight than a random poll on NeoGAF.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
In what way do you mean? That people are buying PS5s to play fortnite and not buy games like Final Fantasy etc?
The console sales that are down YoY?
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Thaimasker
Member
Only like 3 PS4 exclusives sold 20 mil. Most sell in the single digit millions. 117 mil PS4's were sold.
Hell, nowadays most people play free to play games like Marvel rivals which is a massively successful new release
Even in a down year for video games ( like 2014 was) Sony still had helldivers 2 which sold well over 12 million copies. And astrobot which won GOTY. and PS5's still sold like crazy despite its high price , partly thanks to games like Wukong, CFB 25 and BO6.
Most of what I've seen and heard about 2025 is that it looks to be one of the best years in gaming, maybe you just have a narrow taste and are pessimistic.
In Jan I got dynasty warriors, next month monster hunter wilds is a huge release, kingdom come 2 is a huge release ( the first sold nearly 10 mil) Civ 7 is a huge release. So 3 huge releases in feb... Plus games like yakuza and PGA tour 25.
Not every game needs to be a GTA V level of success to help PS5's sell.
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HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Last I checked, Final Fantasy isn’t the only game on PlayStation.
Don’t feign ignorance when you know exactly what I am talking about. There’s only one device that had a truly piss poor showing this gen and the market rightfully treated it as such. PlayStation doesn’t have that problem.
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Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
See how many tells you have?
Who cares if a game is cross gen? Who wants to play games at 1080p30? Why does the existence of a lower quality version diminish the better quality version? You've been stuck so much in console war mode that your logic is warped beyond belief.
Polls and comments on a forum that isn't representative of reality? What does that tell you?
When GAF hates GaaS, you'd think GaaS would already go out of business, yet they're increasingly the majority of gaming. Stop what you're doing, take a look around, and come to terms with reality.
The vast majority of this forum who don't have PS5s. Every thread coming out of the wood work comes Nintendo, xbox, and pcmr fans to shit on Sony and that logical fallacy makes you think it's real or true.
The evidence? You mean things that are objectively true?
That Sony's games review the best in the industry? That they sell the best too (AAA space) and that the console continues to sell better than the PS4, PS1, and PS3?
You've been in your own echo chamber too long that you're entirely divorced from reality. At the end of the day I'm not going to convince you of anything nor am I really even trying to convince you of anything. I know who you are, I'm well aware of you, but I will tell you what's going on, which is that you're upset at Microsoft's failures. You bought into the console wars and you lost.
I'm upset that gaming is losing competition that could harm the industry, but from a consumer perspective of someone who has played PS5 games for the last 4 years and bought a PS5 Pro, I'm super happy with the production of games the last 4 years. I'll lament Microsoft's decline, but tell yourself whatever you have to tell yourself about PlayStation, just know that it's completely delusional.
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Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Imagine thinking the 12,000 visitors to GAF and the what 3K? Active posters? Speak for gaming and are necessarily representative of gaming.
I don't play online games. I can't remember the last time I played an online gaming. Maybe Destiny 2 for a day during the pandemic?
I have the humility to recognize that I'm not representative of gaming. Why is it so hard for these guys to recognize that too?
I used to play sports games and I stopped playing them in 2013. Does that mean all gamers stopped playing sports games in 2013? Again, humility.
I used to play fighting games. I stopped playing them in like 2009. Does that mean there hasn't been a fighting game renaissance? I don't even need to play fighting games to recognize that there has been. Nearly every major fighting game franchise has released a modern iteration on PS5 and those games have reviewed among some of the best in history.
I'd say JRPGs have taken a massive dip in quality and so has the stealth action genre. Some genres might not be doing great while others are doing amazingly. The broad strokes people are looking to paint the industry just so they can push a console war is wild.
Elden Ring
Baldur's Gate
Hogwarts Legacy
Cyberpunk 2077
Street Fighter 6
Tekken 8
Astro Bot
Monster Hunter Wilds
GTA6
Crazy to even suggest this generation has been a let down in anyway... People will keep saying that despite whatever games come out. It's a tired narrative and its boring. Get new material.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Imagine trying to downplay an original IP that sold over 10 million copies on its first iteration...
Felessan
Member
Replace Fortnite with HSR and Genshin and it'll be close to truth
Idleyes
Member
People who purchase PlayStation for exclusives also purchase other games. Of course 1st party sales will be smaller, third-party releases (e.g., from Ubisoft, EA, Activision) each year on PlayStation, outnumber first-party exclusives by a large margin. Sony's exclusives play a significant role in hardware adoption and brand strength. I said nothing about SIE as a whole so don't know where that came from.
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kaizenkko
Member
I think that PS is in a good state right now. PS5 probably have surpass 70 millions sales last december, and with Microsoft giving up of Xbox, Sony is safer than ever.
But regarding single-player first-party games, well, there's a problem. Right now Sony has only 7 studios developing single-player titles, and with game development taking so long these days it's obvius that these studios are not enough to mainting a good cadence of releases every year. This will impact Sony? Probably not, but as a consumer who loves Sony's pedigree, it's sad.
But regarding single-player first-party games, well, there's a problem. Right now Sony has only 7 studios developing single-player titles, and with game development taking so long these days it's obvius that these studios are not enough to mainting a good cadence of releases every year. This will impact Sony? Probably not, but as a consumer who loves Sony's pedigree, it's sad.
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TMLT
Member
But but it's worse than the PS3.
At this point in the PS3s lifespan it had Uncharted 1-2, MGS4, God Of War 3, Demons Souls, LBP, Killzone 2, Resistance 1-2, Infamous, MAG, Heavy Rain, Yakuza 3, 3D Dot Game Heroes, Valkyria Chronicles, White Knight Chronicles, Motorstorm, GT6, three Ratchet games etc in addition to free online (at a time where where that was considered a selling point over the 360) and PS Home.
Better console, facing better competition, in a better era.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
A lot of people do not do their best work when they are safe
As someone who plays a bit of everything I admit I do enjoy some GAAS like Call of Duty and World of Tanks but I really love sitting down and firing up one of those mega tent pole Sony single player first party games and outside of Astrobot I can't think of the last game I truly enjoyed that I couldn't play on my PC as well.
Really look forward to Ghost of Yotei and hope that scratches my itch
But everyone has their own opinions and such
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
GT5*. GT6 was much later in the cycle.
Regardless, yes, I’d say the PS3 had a stronger lineup by this point, but I enjoy what PS5 has offered. My third favorite of the PlayStation consoles and still has plenty of juice left!
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
How many single player studios did Sony have in the PS1, PS2, PS3, and PS4 generations? Do they have more studios now than they did in those generations? Are those studios larger, smaller, or the same size as those generations?
I'm going to go ahead and call you out here and answer the questions for you. Sony has never had more first party development studios or stronger first party development studios. Most of these studios are working on multiple games. Games are taking longer to develop because they're larger in scale and scope.
You could beat Uncharted 1 in 8 hours and Uncharted 2 in 10.5 hours and Uncharted 3 in 9 hours.
The Last of Us P2 takes 24 hours. So almost the exact gameplay time of 3 games in one... but that's not how people want to measure things.
Ragnarok is 26.5 hours. God of War 1-3 is 31 hours...
You're sad because you're not paying attention... What companies are putting out games at a faster cadence than Sony? Please name them.
kaizenkko
Member
Regarding studios I think things will be fine. Those studios have talented people who want to make the best games of the industry. About SIE overall, they already are doing not the best possible job. All this GAAS pivot just became something possible because Playstation has a dominance in the market.
Sony is now releasing games on PC, so that's will keep happening. But the true is that if you in a consumer who only buys a Playstation to play exclusive games, you is not the type of consumer that they really want. The public that they want are those people who can be really invested in their ecosystem, buying all type of games (first and third-party), paying for PS Plus, etc. It's because of that who porting games to PC really don't impact their business like people think.
kaizenkko
Member
Games now take more time to be made, there's no point in made comparisons of that type.
Felessan
Member
Development cycle was way shorter
And no, you can't go back in time, because sales fall faster with reduction in quality than you save costs. Basically going to AA you go out of mass-market and to be successfull you either go very low and bet on chances on runaway success or you target specific niche.
For reduction to work in AAA space the whole industry have to scale back, but it'll not work, because whoever opportunistically break "promise" and do AAA instead of AA will grab mass-market for themselves, reigniting arms race
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I am still in their ecosystem with Plus and buy a lot of games through them especially my shooters
kaizenkko
Member
Oh, ok, I misunderstood you. And yeah, I understand that feeling, but for me personally playing on PC in not something I would like, even with all the advantages that it has.
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MikeM
Member
They innovate plenty on the hardware side though. Dualsense, PSSR and VR to name a few this gen.
Now that they are largely abandoning the GAAS push, I expect the software side to get better.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Uncharted 1-2 vs Resident Evil 4, Resident Evil Village, and Silent Hill 2
MGS4, okay and what about Cyberpunk and Phantom Liberty
God of War 3 vs God of War Ragnarok
Demons Souls? What about Demon's Souls remake and Elden Ring and Erd Tree
LittleBigPlanet? What about Astro Bot?
Killzone 2 vs Horizon Forbidden West
Resistance 1-2 vs Spider-Man Miles Morales and Spider-Man 2
Infamous vs Returnal
Heavy Rain vs Baldur's Gate 3
Yakuza 3 vs Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth
GT6 vs GT7
3D Dot Game Heroes vs Hogwarts Legacy
Valkyria Chronicles vs FF16 and Metaphor Refantazio
Motorstorm vs Wreckfest
Ratchet and Clank Future games vs Diablo 4, HiFi Rush, and Psychonauts 2
White Knight Chronicles vs any game you can think of
Felessan
Member
Their gaas initiative is self-funded, Mihoyo alone brought them more money than they possibly lost on 1st party gaas failures
It was a great insight of Jim and it became possible because huge mistakes in vision of Phil/Nin to ignore incoming tsunami of service gaming. They carved themselves a lucrative place in gaas market - non-sophistocates, easy-to use, relatively cheap (unlike PC), high IQ (unlike mobile) - basically value for money as consoles always been.
kaizenkko
Member
What I'm talking is, if Sony had not a big market share and dominance in the console space (like PS3 era), I doubt they would do a live service approach like they did.
Aces High
Member
Just like companies have to kick their worker's asses so they perform well, consumers have to do the same with companies.
If the ass-kicking stops, everyone loses. This is known as the Red Queen Hypothesis.
The Red Queen says:
"Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place."
Sony is succesful with subpar performance because they don't have competition in the console space anymore. What looks bad for consumers at first glance, is extremely dangerous for PlayStation as a business. They don't innovate anymore. They just re-release the same cookie cutter crap over and over again and demand cash for what's sometimes less than a single user's graphics patch on PC. They risk becoming lazy, dull and weak. If I were Apple, Meta, or a Chinese tech corp, I would wait until Sony is fat and full, and then I would try to disrupt the gaming market with full force.
The Red Queen effect is why free capitalist economies always beat planned economies. In some cases dramatically. Example: During Cold war, Germany was split into capitalist West and communist East. West German cars like Mercedes, BMW, VW, Audi had to compete in an international free market. They were like alien technology compared to the shit they built in East Germany and the USSR. Once the iron curtain fell, communist manufacturers went out of business in no time because decades of protective planned economy prevented them from becoming good at what they do.
You can even use the Red Queen Hypothesis to spot cartels. If there's open competition within a market, but the products and services by every player get worse without explanation through external factors, you can bet your ass that some shady shit is going down behind closed doors.
You know the saying 'If you're the smartest guy in the room, you're in the wrong room' ? That's not a compliment. It's a warning.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Guys. I admit that we are all in an echo chamber. Everything i post is 99 percent my opinion.
I don't think it's a good generation for Sonys first party ip output. More or less 70 percent of people on here agree with that.
The market can go to their taylor swift concerts and buy fortnite dances. That's not what I game for.
Rawbutt Jellybean
Member
Like half of those the PS3 side is better and you're comparing the total PS5 library to just some of the PS3 exclusives.