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[NEbeast]

Assuming that leak is real, we can safely deduce real world performance of this console. With PS5 and XSX it's pretty clear that GPUs in those consoles most of the time perform just like 10-12TF RDNA2 GPUs, there is no secret sauce of any kind. This console should perform like 33.5TF RDNA3 GPU (so slightly below 7700XT) but with RT performance much closer to Nvidia cards in the same power brackets (3070ti-4070).

No one cares. Take the PCMR elsewhere.

 

[Topher]

Assuming that leak is real, we can safely deduce real world performance of this console. With PS5 and XSX it's pretty clear that GPUs in those consoles most of the time perform just like 10-12TF RDNA2 GPUs, there is no secret sauce of any kind. This console should perform like 33.5TF RDNA3 GPU (so slightly below 7700XT) but with RT performance much closer to Nvidia cards in the same power brackets (3070ti-4070).

I don't think we can considering there are other variables. PS5 runs on a different operating system and uses a different API. We wouldn't assume Vulkan and DirectX 12 run the same on a single GPU. And generally with any new GPU on the market, the rule of thumb is wait for benchmarks. Better not to assume anything, imo.

 

[geary]

Is anywhere started that then new upscaling method has can use similar tech as frame gen (DLSS3) or on par with DLSS2 (without FG).

 

[Topher]

No one cares.

 

[StereoVsn]

Otherwise it doesn't make sense if the upgraders can't play their physical PS5 games on the Pro, right??

About the price it will be 599€ with the option to add a drive.

Unless Sony is crazy they will have Digital and Disk models for the Pro in same way as Slim. So say $599 / $650 or something like that.

If they don’t have full disk SKU that will cause lost sales especially outside NA.

 

[jm89]

This nonsense again.... by the time you add that KB+M and/or a controller, you are lookling at a $1000+ piece of hardware. And this is assuming that you even want to "build" it yourself and have the know-how. This is the dumb thing that I think people who say stuff like this always seem to suggest. They talk like everyone out there has or is even willing to spend $1000 to "just build a PC".

The simple fact of the matter is this, from a price-to-performance standpoint, for a device specifically bought for gaming and media consumption, a console, will ALWAYS be better than a PC. The PS5 Pro will cost anywhere between $500-$600, you cannot get an equivalent gaming PC for that price point. And hell, at that point the og PS5 can even cost $399. Good luck getting a gaming PC at that price too.

Forgive my tone, but in all honesty, comparing PC prices, buying habits, or tendencies to that of a console is the most stupid thing anyone can do. Especially when it comes from the PC folk who usually present themselves as the more knowledgeable and cutting-edge of the bunch.

If you have only $400 - $500 to spend, or you just specifically want a console, you will not even be considering a PC period. I don't know why this concept is so hard to understand, especially for anyone who knows about PCpartspicker. I can't for the life of me think of a non-trolling, or non-disingenuous reason as to why this whole "build a PC" nonsense finds its way into every single new console hardware thread.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Assuming that leak is real, we can safely deduce real world performance of this console. With PS5 and XSX it's pretty clear that GPUs in those consoles most of the time perform just like 10-12TF RDNA2 GPUs, there is no secret sauce of any kind. This console should perform like 33.5TF RDNA3 GPU (so slightly below 7700XT) but with RT performance much closer to Nvidia cards in the same power brackets (3070ti-4070).

Basically, the PS5pro will perform like a 4070 when its all said and done in a console space. And that is about where I expected it to land almost a year ago. Good enough to have 1280-1440p games with light to medium RT settings then reconstructed to 4K running at 60fps in the PS5 Pros "quality mode".

Eg. Take the Pandora game, at ultra settings and with RT, the 407 manages 52fps at 1440p. I can see the PS5pro being able to do that with medium to high settings running internally at a dynamic 1280-1440p and then reconstructed to 4K@60fps.

And I believe this is the exact kinda scenario the machine is designed to thrive in.

 

[shamoomoo]

4070 is stronger than Pro GPU and that Zen 3 will be better for sure. Hardware linked is better than PS5 Pro aside SSD speed and we know that it makes little difference in games.

PS5 Pro can be a very good deal depending on the price but this myth of needing 1500/2000/3000$ PCs needs to die.

You know this how? I'll give Nvidia a slight RT advantage and a cache bandwidth one too because of frequency and capacity.

The Pro is a closed platform with developers having more control of it because of being closed.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

I make sure to add real world performance

Seeing if I can get the ok to talk about a certain FPS game (biggest there is)

Not sure I can because of NDAs but he no longer works there so curious how he feels on it

Spill your guts man. SPill it all. Hell send me a PM and I will spill it here and cite my source told m...... ooops.

I probably shouldn't have said this out loud.

 

[Bojji]

This nonsense again.... by the time you add that KB+M and/or a controller, you are lookling at a $1000+ piece of hardware. And this is assuming that you even want to "build" it yourself and have the know-how. This is the dumb thing that I think people who say stuff like this always seem to suggest. They talk like everyone out there has or is even willing to spend $1000 to "just build a PC".

The simple fact of the matter is this, from a price-to-performance standpoint, for a device specifically bought for gaming and media consumption, a console, will ALWAYS be better than a PC. The PS5 Pro will cost anywhere between $500-$600, you cannot get an equivalent gaming PC for that price point. And hell, at that point the og PS5 can even cost $399. Good luck getting a gaming PC at that price too.

Forgive my tone, but in all honesty, comparing PC prices, buying habits, or tendencies to that of a console is the most stupid thing anyone can do. Especially when it comes from the PC folk who usually present themselves as the more knowledgeable and cutting-edge of the bunch.

If you have only $400 - $500 to spend, or you just specifically want a console, you will not even be considering a PC period. I don't know why this concept is so hard to understand, especially for anyone who knows about PCpartspicker. I can't for the life of me think of a non-trolling, or non-disingenuous reason as to why this whole "build a PC" nonsense finds its way into every single new console hardware thread.

Let's see how Sony will price this thing first, their last move on that front was to RAISE the price of console released years earlier.

They are also not able to make great cost reductions compared to previous gens because nod reductions are slow and sometimes not even worth it...

And of course casuals have no idea about specs but at the same time casuals are not the market for this console. Pro is aimed at people unsatisfied with PS5 performance, their only choice right now is PC.

I don't think we can considering there are other variables. PS5 runs on a different operating system and uses a different API. We wouldn't assume Vulkan and DirectX 12 run the same on a single GPU. And generally with any new GPU on the market, the rule of thumb is wait for benchmarks. Better not to assume anything, imo.

So far we have seen that this doesn't make that much difference, usually games perform as expected from GPUs of this class.

You know this how? I'll give Nvidia a slight RT advantage and a cache bandwidth one too because of frequency and capacity.

The Pro is a closed platform with developers having more control of it because of being closed.

They will in much better position to actually use dual issue code on PS5 Pro but only some developers will actually invest time in this for one version of the console with super small install base.

 

[Fake]

PRO will sure have a drive. DE sales are abysmal in comparison with the drive one, like 8 x 2.


What the point of reduce the price of a premium hardware? Don't even make sense.

You know this is not going to be cheap. If you want a PRO without a disk drive just remove when you get one.

 

[64bitmodels]

You can literally build PC that will be on par or better than PS5 Pro for ~900$ right now:

Raster sure. But will it be equivalent in RT and AI upscaling?

 

[asdasdasdbb]

PRO will sure have a drive. DE sales are abysmal in comparison with the drive one, like 8 x 2.

Presumably Sony has two production lines. One is currently doing the Slim, the other is doing the Slim+Disc. At some point they will switch the Slim+Disc production line to the Pro digital.

Retailers could bundle the external drive.

 

[Bojji]

Raster sure. But will it be equivalent in RT and AI upscaling?

4070 should do that.

Unless we have some proof we can assume that Nvidia hardware will still have performance advantage in RT calculations, like they did for last 4 years vs AMD.

Pro/RDNA 3.5 seems to close that gap but we will see.

 

[Fake]

Presumably Sony has two production lines. One is currently doing the Slim, the other is doing the Slim+Disc. At some point they will switch the Slim+Disc production line to the Pro digital.

Retailers could bundle the external drive.

Again, don't make any sense trying to sell a DE version of PS5pro when the DE version of base PS5 is 20% in comparison with standart PS5 with is 80%.

They will come with disk drive. Using the same methodology of the revision PS5 you will have an ability to remove the disk drive if you wish.

There is no sense trying to remove disk drive just make a 'PRO' version affordable. The real purpose of a PRO is not even to be affordable at all.

 

[Gaiff]

Raster sure. But will it be equivalent in RT and AI upscaling?

I really doubt AMD is suddenly better than Lovelace at AI upscaling and RT. In fact, I still expect them to be noticeably behind in RT compared to Lovelace. As for AI upscaling, it's Son'y's first attempt, and historically, these haven't been exactly stellar, but they also have a lot more to reference from. Plus, they're a gaming company so their solution could be great out of the gate. I'd expect it to be better than FSR but not quite as good as DLSS.

 

[64bitmodels]

4070 should do that.

4070 costs 550 bucks, 50 more than a disc ps5

 

[AGRacing]

Another thought. PSVR2 titles running in this should look stunning.

If they bother to upgrade them. I bet they will throw you a bone on GT7 though.

 

[Topher]

So far we have seen that this doesn't make that much difference, usually games perform as expected from GPUs of this class.

Not sure what you mean. Are you saying this class of GPUs have been tested using different APIs and shown there is no difference? If so, where are these test results?

I ask because I've seen differences in performance simply being able to select different APIs in the same game on the same PC.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

Again, don't make any sense trying to sell a DE version of PS5pro when the DE version of base PS5 is 20% in comparison with standart PS5 with is 80%.

I don't think the numbers are that lopsided in favor of the Disc. Although the difference being only $50 probably means most would think that the Disc is worth it.

They will come with disk drive. Using the same methodology of the revision PS5 you will have an ability to remove the disk drive if you wish.

There's no point in removing the drive once you paid for it.

 

[MisterXDTV]

I really doubt AMD is suddenly better than Lovelace at AI upscaling and RT. In fact, I still expect them to be noticeably behind in RT compared to Lovelace. As for AI upscaling, it's Son'y's first attempt, and historically, these haven't been exactly stellar, but they also have a lot more to reference from. Plus, they're a gaming company so their solution could be great out of the gate. I'd expect it to be better than FSR but not quite as good as DLSS.

Is the RT implementation all AMD though?

Or did Sony add some kind of proprietary technology (hardware or software)???

Because the 2x to 4x RT upgrade doesn't seem like it can be done just with RDNA 3.5

 

[Fake]

I don't think the numbers are that lopsided in favor of the Disc. Although the difference being only $50 probably means most would think that the Disc is worth it.

They are. 8 x 2 is a huge factor, already reported from even Digital Foundry. Dude, 80% vs 20%. C'mon.

There's no point in removing the drive once you paid for it.

There's no point of selling without disk drive either. And you can't tell what the consumer can whatever da fuck do with their product as soon as they get one.

They can go full digital, buy the PRO and resell the disk drive if they wish.

Again, you are not proving any of my point, about trying to make a premium product affordable with don't make any sense. Is expensive, complete and the best Playstation console Sony will try to offer, as any premium product Sony is right now selling to consumers.

Those things are not suppouse to be cheap. Face it.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

And of course casuals have no idea about specs but at the same time casuals are not the market for this console. Pro is aimed at people unsatisfied with PS5 performance, their only choice right now is PC.

Also, a narrative I don't agree with. While there is some truth to this, I will just say that you are still talking about two completely different markets.

No one is going to have $1000+ to build a PC, but forgo doing that because it's better to get a PS5pro even at $600. No one is going to have $500 to spend, and then decide it's better to save up another $500 to build a PC when they could be just getting the PS5pro for that price or $100 more, or even getting the og PS5 for less. Its the same reason I hate comparisons where they are talking about used or cobbled together PC parts. Cause when doing that they seem to forget you can also buy a used PS5 for just over $300.

The narrative that everyone who buys a PS5pro, is choosing between that and a PC needs to die a quick and painless death. It's just not true. There are a lot of people that will buy it simply because its the "new" or "best" PS5. Consumers are simple like that. There are a LOT of users that can't tell the difference between native 4K and reconstructed 4K. Like there are just so many people that do not care about that shit. And I pointed it out before, but even a cursory glance at PC spending habits will paint a very different real-world picture as to what kinda hardware and resolutions PC gamers are really using vs the general rhetoric pushed around when talking about PC vs Consoles or what is possible here or there.

Oh, and I don't know about their inability to not drop prices, they currently have the DE PS5 slim with SM2 for $399 on PS direct. This is why I have been saying I expect Sony to drop the price of the PS5 without the DD to $399 flat. I don't see the PS5pro costing $200 more than that.

They will in much better position to actually use dual issue code on PS5 Pro but only some developers will actually invest time in this for one version of the console with super small install base.

This is my hope/expectation, though it won't surprise me if this is mostly a First party thing. Unless Sony finds some way to implement it in their SDK that makes its use free and automatic to devs. But if its something that requires any kinda engine rewriting or intrinsic support, I don't see it being generally adopted.

PRO will sure have a drive. DE sales are abysmal in comparison with the drive one, like 8 x 2.


What the point of reduce the price of a premium hardware? Don't even make sense.

You know this is not going to be cheap.

De sales were poor because of how Sony marketed it. Take me for instance, I just sold my DE og PS5 to but the PS5 slim, with SM2 and a disc drive for $500. There were no DE PS5s even at $450 with the game. If there were, I would have got that. And I have never used my disc drive, I do not even have a single disc-based PS5 game.

Only this year are we now seeing the DE PS5 with SM2 being sold for $399.

And I am sorry, but when it comes to consoles.... there is no such thing as "premium hardware". The business model is still the exact same, get them in at cost at best or a slight loss, and milk them through software sales and peripherals. Premium hardware would mean the console, is sold at a healthy markup. Like what they do with their peripherals. It costs Sony all of like $25-$35 to make a controller, yet they sell them for like $70.

A better question would be, if it costs Sony $450-$480 to make a PS5pro, why or what benefit is it to them to sell it for $600-$700? I don't know about you, but I would think Sony would rather have 4M/year buy a PS5pro at $500 (even if at a $50 loss) and then go on to buy 1yr PS+, 5 games, and an extra controller over that year. Than have 1M people buy it for $600 so they can make a $50 profit on the hardware and then have those 1M people spend the exact same the 5M people in the earlier example spent.

 

[jroc74]

Again, don't make any sense trying to sell a DE version of PS5pro when the DE version of base PS5 is 20% in comparison with standart PS5 with is 80%.

They will come with disk drive. Using the same methodology of the revision PS5 you will have an ability to remove the disk drive if you wish.

There is no sense trying to remove disk drive just make a 'PRO' version affordable. The real purpose of a PRO is not even to be affordable at all.

They are. 8 x 2 is a huge factor, already reported from even Digital Foundry. Dude, 80% vs 20%. C'mon.


There's no point of selling without disk drive either. And you can't tell what the consumer can whatever da fuck do with their product as soon as they get one.

They can go full digital, buy the PRO and resell the disk drive if they wish.

Again, you are not proving any of my point, about trying to make a premium product affordable with don't make any sense. Is expensive, complete and the best Playstation console Sony will try to offer, as any premium product Sony is right now selling to consumers.

Those things are not suppouse to be cheap. Face it.

But they literally did that with the Slim. As that poster pointed out.

The Slim disc drive version is basically a disc drive bundle. Its not impossible to think Sony will do the exact same thing again for the Pro.

The $799 question is the price. Look at PS Direct in the US. The DE orig price is $450. The disc drive version orig price $499. Both are on sale right now. $399 and $450.

For the Slim, Sony raised the price of the DE by $50. They didnt change any price for the disc drive version. Who's to say they wont do a "price drop" to the orig price for the DE and make the Pro $50-$100 more.

Or just make the Pro $50-$100 more than the current price.

Thats a DE Pro at $550, a disc version Pro $599. Thats not impossible and is higher than the base consoles.

 

[Bojji]

4070 costs 550 bucks, 50 more than a disc ps5

It's part of that ~900$ PC I linked, of course it costs more than PS5 but it's also much more capable, maybe even better than PS5 Pro and we don't know how much that console will cost.

Not sure what you mean. Are you saying this class of GPUs have been tested using different APIs and shown there is no difference? If so, where are these test results?

I ask because I've seen differences in performance simply being able to select different APIs in the same game on the same PC.

PS5 have one higher level and one lower level Api. On PC you have high level DX11 and low level Vulvan and DX12. Differences between DX11 and low level api are obvious and can be seen in many games but between two low level apis?

I only know one game that has both Vulacan and DX12 - RDR2 and differences here are minimal (up to few percent better on Vulcan), PS5 can potentially score some advantage here (if console api is more efficient) but it shouldn't change performance much.

 

[Xdrive05]

Anything leaked about the CPU? Are they just going with an identical CPU again, just with slightly higher clocks?

 

[jroc74]

Also, a narrative I don't agree with. While there is some truth to this, I will just say that you are still talking about two completely different markets.

No one is going to have $1000+ to build a PC, but forgo doing that because it's better to get a PS5pro even at $600. No one is going to have $500 to spend, and then decide it's better to save up another $500 to build a PC when they could be just getting the PS5pro for that price or $100 more, or even getting the og PS5 for less. Its the same reason I hate comparisons where they are talking about used or cobbled together PC parts. Cause when doing that they seem to forget you can also buy a used PS5 for just over $300.

The narrative that everyone who buys a PS5pro, is choosing between that and a PC needs to die a quick and painless death. It's just not true. There are a lot of people that will buy it simply because its the "new" or "best" PS5. Consumers are simple like that. There are a LOT of users that can't tell the difference between native 4K and reconstructed 4K. Like there are just so many people that do not care about that shit. And I pointed it out before, but even a cursory glance at PC spending habits will paint a very different real-world picture as to what kinda hardware and resolutions PC gamers are really using vs the general rhetoric pushed around when talking about PC vs Consoles or what is possible here or there.

Oh, and I don't know about their inability to not drop prices, they currently have the DE PS5 slim with SM2 for $399 on PS direct. This is why I have been saying I expect Sony to drop the price of the PS5 without the DD to $399 flat. I don't see the PS5pro costing $200 more than that.

This is my hope/expectation, though it won't surprise me if this is mostly a First party thing. Unless Sony finds some way to implement it in their SDK that makes its use free and automatic to devs. But if its something that requires any kinda engine rewriting or intrinsic support, I don't see it being generally adopted.

De sales were poor because of how Sony marketed it. Take me for instance, I just sold my DE og PS5 to but the PS5 slim, with SM2 and a disc drive for $500. There were no DE PS5s even at $450 with the game. If there were, I would have got that. And I have never used my disc drive, I do not even have a single disc-based PS5 game.

Only this year are we now seeing the DE PS5 with SM2 being sold for $399.

And I am sorry, but when it comes to consoles.... there is no such thing as "premium hardware". The business model is still the exact same, get them in at cost at best or a slight loss, and milk them through software sales and peripherals. Premium hardware would mean the console, is sold at a healthy markup. Like what they do with their peripherals. It costs Sony all of like $25-$35 to make a controller, yet they sell them for like $70.

A better question would be, if it costs Sony $450-$480 to make a PS5pro, why or what benefit is it to them to sell it for $600-$700? I don't know about you, but I would think Sony would rather have 4M/year buy a PS5pro at $500 (even if at a $50 loss) and then go on to buy 1yr PS+, 5 games, and an extra controller over that year. Than have 1M people buy it for $600 so they can make a $50 profit on the hardware and then have those 1M people spend the exact same the 5M people in the earlier example spent.

Agree.

I like how MS pushed the hell out of the Series S, Sony pushed the hell out of the disc version and yet how these companies positioned these consoles just get dismissed in certain topics.

The PS5 DE would have/will sell more...if Sony pushed/pushes that sku more.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Is the RT implementation all AMD though?

Or did Sony add some kind of proprietary technology (hardware or software)???

Because the 2x to 4x RT upgrade doesn't seem like it can be done just with RDNA 3.5

Everything is ALL AMD. The only thing proprietary is what combination of AMD technologies Sony chooses to use.

And that is not what RDNA 3.5 means. There technically is no such thing as RDNA 3.5. That monicker is used to describe hardware that is based on a specific GPU gen, but uses some components or technologies from a more advanced GPU gen. So in this case, the core PS5 GPU architecture can be based on RDNA3, so dual issue compute, AI accelerators....etc. But have RT and maybe even better AI schedulers from RDNA4.

 

[Fake]

De sales were poor because of how Sony marketed it. Take me for instance, I just sold my DE og PS5 to but the PS5 slim, with SM2 and a disc drive for $500. There were no DE PS5s even at $450 with the game. If there were, I would have got that. And I have never used my disc drive, I do not even have a single disc-based PS5 game.

Only this year are we now seeing the DE PS5 with SM2 being sold for $399.

And I am sorry, but when it comes to consoles.... there is no such thing as "premium hardware". The business model is still the exact same, get them in at cost at best or a slight loss, and milk them through software sales and peripherals. Premium hardware would mean the console, is sold at a healthy markup. Like what they do with their peripherals. It costs Sony all of like $25-$35 to make a controller, yet they sell them for like $70.

A better question would be, if it costs Sony $450-$480 to make a PS5pro, why or what benefit is it to them to sell it for $600-$700? I don't know about you, but I would think Sony would rather have 4M/year buy a PS5pro at $500 (even if at a $50 loss) and then go on to buy 1yr PS+, 5 games, and an extra controller over that year. Than have 1M people buy it for $600 so they can make a $50 profit on the hardware and then have those 1M people spend the exact same the 5M people in the earlier example spent.

Of course there is such thing as premium. PS4pro was sold not as a premium console, but as a Playstation premium console. It was the best Sony could offer at the right time and I see repeating the same.

The ratio between the DE and the standart is huge. I can't see reason to sell a PRO version without disk just for make them cheap, as was the DE version using this same ideia.

And about Sony not marketing the DE, I don't think consumers care much about this at all. If this 80% vs 20% ratio was because Sony wasn't marketing DE prorpely I can't say for sure because was the first time I saw someone mention that.

Agree.

I like how MS pushed the hell out of the Series S, Sony pushed the hell out of the disc version and yet how these companies positioned these consoles just get dismissed in certain topics.

The PS5 DE would have/will sell more...if Sony pushed/pushes that sku more.

I don't get in what source is telling the problem with selling DE was because the lack of market. In Brazil they pretty much market/sell the DE of the PS5.

I became a member of GAF a long time ago and I already had many discussions about PS5, read many articles and I never saw anyone making excuses about the lack of marketing about the DE. From what source are you guys getting this info? And what the other source telling if the Sony would push DE with more force would make a difference into sales?

 

[Kaiserstark]

I make sure to add real world performance

Seeing if I can get the ok to talk about a certain FPS game (biggest there is)

Not sure I can because of NDAs but he no longer works there so curious how he feels on it

If the Pro is really performing like a 4070 (nobody expected the pro to perform like a 4080) having 2-4x better RT performance and if their upscale tech is good for a price around 600$, that would be a pretty good deal.

First Party studio should make some pretty nice stuff on this machine. I'm really interested to see what Guerrilla and their Decima Engine will do with this hardware.

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

Basically, the PS5pro will perform like a 4070 when its all said and done in a console space. And that is about where I expected it to land almost a year ago. Good enough to have 1280-1440p games with light to medium RT settings then reconstructed to 4K running at 60fps in the PS5 Pros "quality mode".

Eg. Take the Pandora game, at ultra settings and with RT, the 407 manages 52fps at 1440p. I can see the PS5pro being able to do that with medium to high settings running internally at a dynamic 1280-1440p and then reconstructed to 4K@60fps.

And I believe this is the exact kinda scenario the machine is designed to thrive in.

Again It will not perform as good as a 4070. It will perform as good as a 4070max Q. The laptop counterpart.

 

[Gaiff]

Is the RT implementation all AMD though?

Or did Sony add some kind of proprietary technology (hardware or software)???

Because the 2x to 4x RT upgrade doesn't seem like it can be done just with RDNA 3.5

2-4x is definitely possible over RDNA2. By all accounts, the Pro will have new hardware accelerators for RT, not just repurposed TMUs like with RDNA2 and 3. It will be RDNA4 accelerators. The 7700 XT is already almost twice the raw RT performance of the 6700 XT.

Sony has internal benchmarks they reference for ray tracing performance according to the leaks so I'm really not sure how they calculate 2-4x but this is the best reference we got. Assuming the PS5 is equivalent to the 6700 XT in RT, this would mean it would score 15fps in this benchmark. Double would put it slightly faster than the 7700 XT it's comparable to. 3x would put it a smidge above the 3080, and 4x right between a 3090 and a 4070S.

Do keep in mind, this is a path-traced benchmark. You won't see those performance differentials in any game that isn't path-traced. I'm assuming Sony has internal pure ray tracing benchmarks for their devs and this is where they got the 2-4x performance increase from.

RT on par with a 3080 would make perfect sense as the rasterization could also be close to that level. Essentially, you'd have a 16GB 3080 (both in raster and RT) inside the Pro. That would be using 3x as the average rather than the lower-end 2x and the higher-end 4x. Maybe not quite as fast in brute performance but close enough.

 

[jroc74]

Of course there is such thing as premium. PS4pro was sold not as a premium console, but as a Playstation premium console. It was the best Sony could offer at the right time and I see repeating the same.

The ratio between the DE and the standart is huge. I can't see reason to sell a PRO version without disk just for make them cheap, as was the DE version using this same ideia.

And about Sony not marketing the DE, I don't think consumers care much about this at all. If this 80% vs 20% ratio was because Sony wasn't marketing DE prorpely I can't say for sure because was the first time I saw someone mention that.



I don't get in what source is telling the problem with selling DE was because the lack of market. In Brazil they pretty much market/sell the DE of the PS5.

I became a member of GAF a long time ago and I already had many discussions about PS5, read many articles and I never saw anyone making excuses about the lack of marketing about the DE. From what source are you guys getting this info? And what the other source telling if the Sony would push DE with more force would make a difference into sales?

Really? There were quite a few ppl claiming the PS5 DE was a paper launch, didnt exist because of the disc to DE sales split.

Sony favored the disc drive version in production. Like how MS favored the Series S in production.

What gets the priority on the production line will be more available.

 

[Topher]

It's part of that ~900$ PC I linked, of course it costs more than PS5 but it's also much more capable, maybe even better than PS5 Pro and we don't know how much that console will cost.



PS5 have one higher level and one lower level Api. On PC you have high level DX11 and low level Vulvan and DX12. Differences between DX11 and low level api are obvious and can be seen in many games but between two low level apis?

I only know one game that has both Vulacan and DX12 - RDR2 and differences here are minimal (up to few percent better on Vulcan), PS5 can potentially score some advantage here (if console api is more efficient) but it shouldn't change performance much.

So comparison capability is limited. In my mind, I'm seeing two entirely different environments which isn't ideal when trying to compare GPUs. So there are definitely assumptions being made that the theoretical will translate 1:1 to actual benchmarks. I'm not saying you are wrong. DF analysis very well may prove you right. I do think we should wait for those results though.

 

[Fake]

Really? There were quite a few ppl claiming the PS5 DE was a paper launch, didnt exist because of the disc to DE sales split.

Sony favored the disc drive version in production. Like how MS favored the Series S in production.

What gets the priority on the production line will be more available.

Never saw any of those 'people' affirming that to be honest.

And I don't think Sony marketing PS5 DE would help either.

They can try their luck pushing the PS5pro DE, but the results will be like to like the same as the base PS5 is getting.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

There's no point of selling without disk drive either.

There is, to nudge towards the adorably all digital future. Plus I'm sure it would look better when they can say it's $599 for it versus $649 if the disc was standard.

And like I said, retailers can still bundle the disc if they want.

Oh, and I don't know about their inability to not drop prices, they currently have the DE PS5 slim with SM2 for $399 on PS direct. This is why I have been saying I expect Sony to drop the price of the PS5 without the DD to $399 flat. I don't see the PS5pro costing $200 more than that.

I hadn't seen that promo image, but it definitely looks like a sale and not a perm price cut. Probably because they have too much bundle inventory.

Looks like it ends at the end of the month. My guess is that the prices will go back to the MSRP then.

 

[DeathGuise]

I think 4070 performance is a little optimistic. 4070 is just a little below the 3080 Ti right?

 

[Fafalada]

Is anywhere started that then new upscaling method has can use similar tech as frame gen (DLSS3) or on par with DLSS2 (without FG).

I'm failing to parse what the question here is - can you elaborate what you are actually asking?
Frame Gen and Temporal Image Reconstruction are both a type of signal-processing, and both involve reprojecting pixels based on motion inputs to generate final results - so strictly speaking, they share concepts yes?

I really doubt AMD is suddenly better than Lovelace at AI upscaling and RT.

Last I checked Upscaling is identical on Turing vs. Lovelace - not sure what it has to do with comparing hw.
As for how comparable algorithms will be - we already have Intel(for their native GPUs) and Apple in the same space and the tools 'tech reviewers' use to compare them are clearly too limited to point out any meaningful differences between the 3. Even DF failed to illustrate any tangible downsides or benefits beyond difference of opinions.
And that's at 8x magnification etc - for a normal observer, they would really have no basis to tell them apart.

So outside of possible performance differences - there's no reason to assume this will be any different. Ie. it's entirely possible Sony's wealth of research in image reconstruction could yield them better results to some extent, but the tech is advanced enough now that 'differentiating' advantages are extremely unlikely.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Of course there is such thing as premium. PS4pro was sold not as a premium console, but as a Playstation premium console. It was the best Sony could offer at the right time and I see repeating the same.

The ratio between the DE and the standart is huge. I can't see reason to sell a PRO version without disk just for make them cheap, as was the DE version using this same ideia.

Again, that is not what "Premium" means.

The simple definition of Premium hardware, means you are buying something at a higher price than normal. For a console, that would mean, it cost them $400 to make something, but then they sell it at $500/$600. I already gave the best example I could give, the controllers. That is what it means to sell at a premium. Cost you $30 to make it, and sell it for more than double that at $70. That is not what is or will ever happen with consoles. If it costs Sony $450 to make a PS5, and they sell it at $499, that is considered selling at cost. Not at a premium, doesnt matter if the console being sold is the "best in the range" of consoles.

I do understand what you may be trying to say though, that the Pro consoles are not sold literally at a premium but thagt they represent the premium arm of PS consoles. But that is just a superficial product placing, and not reflecting of what it actually means to be selling something at a premium. So the core business practices and initiatives will still apply. Which is to sell it for as little money as possible and get it into as many homes as possible.

And about Sony not marketing the DE, I don't think consumers care much about this at all. If this 80% vs 20% ratio was because Sony wasn't marketing DE prorpely I can't say for sure because was the first time I saw someone mention that.

I don't get in what source is telling the problem with selling DE was because the lack of market. In Brazil they pretty much market/sell the DE of the PS5.

I became a member of GAF a long time ago and I already had many discussions with PS5, read many articles and I never saw anyone making excuses about the lack of marketing about the DE. From what source are you guys getting this info? And what the other source telling if the Sony would push DE with more force would make a difference into sales?

Again, I just gave you a great example. You can now buy a PS5 DE + SM2 for $399. This was not an option when the PS5slim came to market. Then your options were, PS5+DD+SM2 for $499 or PS5 DE for $450. At that point, you have to be stupid to buy the DE console. Get this, if you bought the DE PS5 at $450, then bought SM2 + the disc drive, you would have spent $610 when it was all said and done. As I said, stupid.

And that, is a very different kinda marketing. Marketing doesn't always have to mean you advertise something, you can tell what a company would rather have you buy at any given time by how much of it is made available and how many deals they make for it. Sony positioned the PS5 disc SKU as the no-brainer option to buy, first from simply just making more of them than the digital SKU, and then by always having only the disc SKU have the best deals. Why you may wonder? Well, thats because they lost more money on each unit sold on the DE consoles.

 

[SABRE220]

Basically, the PS5pro will perform like a 4070 when its all said and done in a console space. And that is about where I expected it to land almost a year ago. Good enough to have 1280-1440p games with light to medium RT settings then reconstructed to 4K running at 60fps in the PS5 Pros "quality mode".

Eg. Take the Pandora game, at ultra settings and with RT, the 407 manages 52fps at 1440p. I can see the PS5pro being able to do that with medium to high settings running internally at a dynamic 1280-1440p and then reconstructed to 4K@60fps.

And I believe this is the exact kinda scenario the machine is designed to thrive in.

Did you hear anything from a source regarding 4070 realword performance?
Also did you put med-high settings for the pro compared to the 4070 due to weaker hardware or because its targeting fixed 60fps unlike 52fps on the 4070?

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

I hadn't seen that promo image, but it definitely looks like a sale and not a perm price cut. Probably because they have too much bundle inventory.

Looks like it ends at the end of the month. My guess is that the prices will go back to the MSRP then.

Every price drop is preceded by a sale. If they can do this promotion now with a game? My guess is that by the end of the year, they can do it without a game permanently. And chances are even then it could still be done with a game... even if its the same game.

 

[SABRE220]

I make sure to add real world performance

Seeing if I can get the ok to talk about a certain FPS game (biggest there is)

Not sure I can because of NDAs but he no longer works there so curious how he feels on it

Your words are the only thing giving me hope regarding this console. Looking at the new info 45% etc do you still think the pro will perform like a 4070 in real-world games?

 

[Gaiff]

Last I checked Upscaling is identical on Turing vs. Lovelace - not sure what it has to do with comparing hw.
As for how comparable algorithms will be - we already have Intel(for their native GPUs) and Apple in the same space and the tools 'tech reviewers' use to compare them are clearly too limited to point out any meaningful differences between the 3. Even DF failed to illustrate any tangible downsides or benefits beyond difference of opinions.
And that's at 8x magnification etc - for a normal observer, they would really have no basis to tell them apart.

So outside of possible performance differences - there's no reason to assume this will be any different. Ie. it's entirely possible Sony's wealth of research in image reconstruction could yield them better results to some extent, but the tech is advanced enough now that 'differentiating' advantages are extremely unlikely.

I didn't see it for Apple but XeSS is still widely considered inferior to DLSS but still much better than FSR.



DLSS Quality>XeSS Quality>FSR Quality is still the final conclusion. In addition, it took Intel a few years to get to this point. I trust Sony to be competent out of the gate but I'm purposefully being a bit more pessimistic simply not to get my hopes up too much. Rather go with the minimum than the maximum.

 

[Fake]

There is, to nudge towards the adorably all digital future.

Are you using the Xbox Series X leak quote? lmao.

You guys can stick with this. I can't find any reason to Sony sell without disk.
PS4pro never did any huge numbers, so spliting the PS5pro numbers would be a giant mistake from Sony part.

But is modern Sony we are talking about. They can keep doing the same mistakes over and over again. I wish them luck if they try.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Again It will not perform as good as a 4070. It will perform as good as a 4070max Q. The laptop counterpart.

You may be right, but this is hard to say because we are talking about two different dev environments and product principles.

Did you hear anything from a source regarding 4070 realword performance?
Also did you put med-high settings for the pro compared to the 4070 due to weaker hardware or because its targeting fixed 60fps unlike 52fps on the 4070?

Its common sense really. First, have it at the back of your mind that consoles always push above their weight, this can simply be attributed to better optimization. Then lets move forward.

At 16.75TF, this puts the PS5pros raw raster perf in the ballpark of 4070 (14.5TF) and 6800XT (20TF). The 6800XT is similar to the 4070 in raw raster performance workloads But grossly gets outperformed when RT workloads come into play. Eg, AC:M non-RT at 1440p; 6800XT 86.6fps, 4070 97fps. Or Avatar with RT@1440p; 6800XT 45fps and 4070 52fps.

So, the simple deduction is to find an AMD GPU that has similar raster performance, and if the PS5pro is to have RT performance that is 3-4x better than that found in the og PS5, then you will end up with a GPU that performs like that similar Nvidia GPU in rater and RT performance too.

Just looking at the TF numbers alone, will put the PS5pro based on RDNA 3.5, in the ballpark of a 4070. And you would need a more powerful AMD GPU from a TF standpoint alone (in this case the 6800XT) to match that kinda performance. Asssuming no RT is being used. But further more, you can also factor in things like the fact that on consoles,, they willl not be running any or everything at ultra settings. And will also use dynamic resolution scaling where applicable because yes, its targeting 60fps. And that is how i arrived at my 4070 levels of performance.

 

[SABRE220]

You may be right, but this is hard to say because we are talking about two different dev environments and product principles.

Its common sense really. First, have it at the back of your mind that consoles always push above their weight, this can simply be attributed to better optimization. Then lets move forward.

At 16.75TF, this puts the PS5pros raw raster perf in the ballpark of 4070 (14.5TF) and 6800XT (20TF). The 6800XT is similar to the 4070 in raw raster performance workloads But grossly gets outperformed when RT workloads come into play. Eg, AC:M non-RT at 1440p; 6800XT 86.6fps, 4070 97fps. Or Avatar with RT@1440p; 6800XT 45fps and 4070 52fps.

So, the simple deduction is to find an AMD GPU that has similar raster performance, and if the PS5pro is to have RT performance that is 3-4x better than that found in the og PS5, then you will end up with a GPU that performs like that similar Nvidia GPU in rater and RT performance too.

Just looking at the TF numbers alone, will put the PS5pro based on RDNA 3.5, in the ballpark of a 4070. And you would need a more powerful AMD GPU from a TF standpoint alone (in this case the 6800XT) to match that kinda performance. Asssuming no RT is being used. But further more, you can also factor in things like the fact that on consoles,, they willl not be running any or everything at ultra settings. And will also use dynamic resolution scaling where applicable because yes, its targeting 60fps. And that is how i arrived at my 4070 levels of performance.

The problem is compared to even comparable rdna3 gpus there is a bottleneck present that is preventing the compute power from being translated well into real world performance since the 6.7 additional tflops especially rdna3.5+ should not result in only a 45% gain in standard workloads.

 

[Gaiff]

At 16.75TF, this puts the PS5pros raw raster perf in the ballpark of 4070 (14.5TF) and 6800XT (20TF). The 6800XT is similar to the 4070 in raw raster performance workloads But grossly gets outperformed when RT workloads come into play. Eg, AC:M non-RT at 1440p; 6800XT 86.6fps, 4070 97fps. Or Avatar with RT@1440p; 6800XT 45fps and 4070 52fps.

It's actually slightly behind the 7700 XT which is 35.17 TFLOPs (17.59). This would make the 7700 XT 5% faster and the 7800 XT over 25% faster. It has way more bandwidth though. Also, does it have Infinity Cache?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Your words are the only thing giving me hope regarding this console. Looking at the new info 45% etc do you still think the pro will perform like a 4070 in real-world games?

In real world performance yes, at least that what has been said off the record.

 

[Gaiff]

In real world performance yes, at least that what has been said off the record.

I don't suppose they specified whether it was in hybrid workloads with RT or just standard rasterization?

 

[gow3isben]

Isn’t Sony’s biggest concern profit? Isn’t the manufacture of this beast going to severely limit profit due to price of components?