Support NeoGAF

[Chie Satonaka]

For people who keep asking why this is happening, you have your proof in this thread.

There are a group of people who believe whatever they want to. Facts and evidence and statistics don't exist in their world. Those things become "propaganda" because they don't fall in line with my own confirmation bias.

It's fucking ridiculous, but this is how our political system works.

I love how there was some "both parties do bad things" sprinkled off in there too. If this were a thread that was racially based, I'm sure someone would have came in and mentioned "Lincoln freed the slaves" or something else equally stupid.

 

[Armaros]

I'm curious to know what you've seen that has been bad. I've seen you talk about how you've seen lots of people take advantage of welfare, but can you actually explain to us what they've done to be so bad? Also, can you explain why you think its bad? For instance, you said that someone on food stamps was doing it because they wouldn't work 40 hours a week and go to school. Why is this bad? What makes this person "taking advantage of" food stamps vs someone else?

Here's some anecdotal evidence for you - everyone I've ever known who HAS been on food stamps, was on there for 1 of 2 reasons - #1 - they work at wal-mart or some other very large company and they aren't paid enough. They aren't able to get better jobs, not because they don't want to, but because they don't have the mental capacity to do better. An example (but not the only one) is my husbands brother. He was born when their mom was later in her years (he was an "oops) and he is mildly mentally handicapped. He can't do anything better because he literally doesn't have the mental capacity. So he works at Wal-Mart as a night stocker. And he's on food stamps.

Second example - more than one girl, youngish age, late-late teens, very early 20s, with a kid and no husband/man in her life. She also, while not my BIL's speed, also isn't very smart or bright. She was on food stamps while working heavily to make sure her daughter got fed.

All of my personal anecdotal evidence is the complete opposite of yours. And yes, I do believe I've seen "hundreds" of these people.

There are always going to be "some" people that take advantage of a program out there, regardless of WHAT program it is. Rich, poor, people are selfish. But to say that a program needs to be cut back is only punishing the people who need it to spite the few who are taking advantage of it.

Its also funny that the GOP fights so hard against welfare fraud, but completely ignores AND makes excuses for not fighting corporate welfare and its excesses and fraud, when that makes welfare fraud looks like pennies.

And we would end up wasting even more money, to add all the extra security in order to combat welfare fraud, that it would become a larger expense then the fraud itself.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

The biggest enemy of the Republican Party is an educated voter.

To Republicans, all the education you need is in the bible.

This, and they want people to be in more debt. More student loans = better for da corps.

 

[Barzul]

This party will suffer the slow death it deserves. Adapt or change, policies/budgets like this guarantee that they'll never get the minority vote and soon enough that minority will become the majority. I'm not even too bothered, when people actually see what a shit show the Republicans have performed with a majority in the House and Congress, they'll lose both come 2016 like they did in 2008.

 

[Suikoguy]

Someone else said it earlier, but I would entertain this notion if I was provided clear, empirical evidence by said Republican framers that these cuts won't have deleterious effects on the economy.

Seriously, currently the evidence points towards such programs having a greater net benefit to the economy then defense spending.

That's not to say the economy will not see a loss from cuts to defense spending. It certainly will. But each dollar spent there could be spent elsewhere for greater impact, not only in helping people who need help, but also in more economic gain per dollar spent.

This party will suffer the slow death it deserves. Adapt or change, policies/budgets like this guarantee that they'll never get the minority vote and soon enough that minority will become the majority. I'm not even too bothered, when people actually see what a shit show the Republicans have performed with a majority in the House and Congress, they'll lose both come 2016 like they did in 2008.

I don't see the dems retaking the house in 2016 thanks to redistricting. Senate, certainly possible if not likely. 2020? Maybe.

 

[CrimsonCrescendo]

.

 

[Kai Dracon]

I once heard a person rant that poor black people are just lazy because every day on the way to work at his very hard honest job, he drove by a house with three young black men sitting on the front porch. They didn't appear to have any visible disability - at that distance you'd presume that to be indicated by a wheelchair, crutches, or limb cast - so the only possible reason they sat there is they were too lazy to be responsible people.

From that first-hand experience, this person shored up his conviction that the poor are just dirty layabouts who won't reach out their hand and take the hard but plentiful jobs anyone could have if they only tried.

 

[subrock]

Can you link me to some reactions to that move? I think that would be entertaining.

The wackos:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3271128/posts?page=13

The wackos on Gaf:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1015825

 

[mackattk]

what the fuck?

That American Opportunity tax credit helps out immensely. It basically refunds me back 50% of the cost of college. I would be struggling hard right now (or not even go) if that wasn't there.

Republicans hate them because they're poor....and because they're minorities.

I wouldn't say that they hate them. More like they are willing to write them off like they are nothing. Poor people are the back bone of the 1%, why would they hate them?

 

[BamfMeat]

Its also funny that the GOP fights so hard against welfare fraud, but completely ignores AND makes excuses for not fighting corporate welfare and its excesses and fraud, when that makes welfare fraud looks like pennies.

And we would end up wasting even more money, to add all the extra security in order to combat welfare fraud, that it would become a larger expense then the fraud itself.

I love this. Also, in FL (I think) they wanted to enact drug tests for people who were on welfare/food stamps.

They did it for a while and caught, I believe the number was... 0 people on drugs. None. I think they ended it because it was millions of dollars to create and keep the program running and it ended up not working out the way they thought it would.

Here we go -

Interesting link for those who are curious

2% of people tested had drugs in them. 2%. The state of Florida lost money on this. All because, apparently, poor people are just lazy. How many facts do we actually have to show people to get them to listen? Oh wait, their anecdotal evidence that they've "seen" is more valuable. Confirmation bias is alarming here.

I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

 

[Blader]

This, and they want people to be in more debt. More student loans = better for da corps.

eh, I don't really know how Republicans as an entire party stand to financially benefit from student loan debt. Their opposition to loan forgiveness or anything along those lines has more to do with the bootstraps philosophy: if you took out a loan, you deserve to pay it for yourself and with whatever consequences that may entail. Doesn't matter if the conditions of going to college make it impossible not to take out a loan, or if the conditions of post-grad life make it difficult/impossible for you to affordably manage that loan. As long as you made the decision to sign on to a loan agreement, you're responsible for the outcome.

When it comes to predatory lending, conservatives tend to side with the lender, not because they're getting paid off for it but because they believe it's the victim's fault for being a victim.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Cutting programs that helps keep people fed and off the street wont affecting the economy?

I'm relatively certain it does. I just wish we as liberal voters could switch the narrative away from the burning hatred in the heart of every GOP voter. Its not actually helpful in convincing moderates and I wouldn't be surprised that it actively achieves the opposite.

 

[Subtle]

I'm relatively certain it does. I just wish we as liberal voters could switch the narrative away from the burning hatred in the heart of every GOP voter. Its not actually helpful in convincing moderates and I wouldn't be surprised that it actively achieves the opposite.

I think my edited post was lost in the frenzy so I'll post this again.

I'm a young liberal, and I would love to understand the reasoning behind this. However, all I see here is that Republicans are trying to take away the stepping stones poor people use to try to advance. I know a lot of people on food stamps, and cutting money from the program will just make their lives impossibly hard if they get cut from it. Programs like this allow them to focus on getting their education instead of finding a minimum wage job. Idk how many of my friends would be able to attend university without that aid. And they're planning on cutting the Pell Grant money too? Iu would probably have to attend community college instead of UCLA without that. And without ACA I can just forget about health insurance. You say we don't see what conservatives are trying to do with these policies but I say they don't know that they're fucking with real people's lives. We're not just dollar signs on a budget

Your response would be appreciated

 

[NullPointer]

Why do Republicans hate poor people?

Because poor people don't work as hard as people born into wealth and connections.

 

[Plinko]

If this doesn't convince people how important it is that a democrat wins in 2016, nothing will.

 

[mackattk]

eh, I don't really know how Republicans as an entire party stand to financially benefit from student loan debt. Their opposition to loan forgiveness or anything along those lines has more to do with the bootstraps philosophy: if you took out a loan, you deserve to pay it for yourself and with whatever consequences that may entail. Doesn't matter if the conditions of going to college make it impossible not to take out a loan, or if the conditions of post-grad life make it difficult/impossible for you to affordably manage that loan. As long as you made the decision to sign on to a loan agreement, you're responsible for the outcome.

When it comes to predatory lending, conservatives tend to side with the lender, not because they're getting paid off for it but because they believe it's the victim's fault for being a victim.

I think a lot of it is they want to keep people desperate, because desperate people are willing to work longer and for lower wages to get by. Desperate people mean cheap labor, college educated or not. Granted, this only benefits a very small sector of the republican party, but that doesn't stop them from getting voted in.

Because poor people don't work as hard as people born into wealth and connections.

I always loved the "Well I made $1000 today, and it takes you a month to make that? You sure are lazy."

 

[Tesseract]

i'll basically be homeless if this passes, bouncing from hospital to hospital until i kill myself

honestly, this scares the hell out of me. if i lose medicaid, i am dead. all my phd work down the wastes, fml.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

If this doesn't convince people how important it is that a democrat wins in 2016, nothing will.

It's unfortunate that so many seem to not realize the importance of mid-term elections and decide to stay home instead. 2016 doesn't matter too much if in 2018 Congress is pushed further red. Especially if we have to wait until term two for most constructive things to get done.

 

[dabig2]

I'm relatively certain it does. I just wish we as liberal voters could switch the narrative away from the burning hatred in the heart of every GOP voter. Its not actually helpful in convincing moderates and I wouldn't be surprised that it actively achieves the opposite.

When people double down on ignorance, they will be scorned. Doubly so if we're talking anonymous gaming message boards. Liberal voters don't hate every GOP voter. Hell, we probably hate them less than they hate us going by the complete vitriol and contempt they spit alongside their politicians. You got Conservatives questioning if the President actually loves his country. The well of good discourse was poisoned a long time ago - long before young liberals started using the internet to post a few snarky comments relating to Republicans.

 

[Natureboy99]

I love how there was some "both parties do bad things" sprinkled off in there too. If this were a thread that was racially based, I'm sure someone would have came in and mentioned "Lincoln freed the slaves" or something else equally stupid.

Curious on your take, why is "both parties do bad things" stupid? There's quite a bit of evidence that both parties have done bad things. Are you denying that, or do you think you have to take a political side because taking no side is worse? Or are you just saying it's not constructive to the conversation?

 

[fixedpoint]

I love this. Also, in FL (I think) they wanted to enact drug tests for people who were on welfare/food stamps.

They did it for a while and caught, I believe the number was... 0 people on drugs. None. I think they ended it because it was millions of dollars to create and keep the program running and it ended up not working out the way they thought it would.

Here we go -

Interesting link for those who are curious

2% of people tested had drugs in them. 2%. The state of Florida lost money on this. All because, apparently, poor people are just lazy. How many facts do we actually have to show people to get them to listen? Oh wait, their anecdotal evidence that they've "seen" is more valuable. Confirmation bias is alarming here.

I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

The most amazing (least surprising?) part of this corrupt plot is that Gov. Scott founded and owns a majority of stock in a company that provides .. drug testing in Florida.

 

[not psycho]

It makes sense, you just have to understand how the economy works.

Job creators create jobs when you rig the system to allow them to hoard so much money they can't figure out what else to do with it. Ideally, you would cut all aid to render much of the country poor and helpless to injury, sickness, work demands, without adequate infrastructure, etc, while transferring the wealth to the job creators.

Eventually you reach a tipping point, where wealth is so incredibly concentrated in the hands of a few, and so many are in dire conditions, with nothing left, that the few think "well, I guess there's nothing left to do but create some jobs." Who's going to create a job when they don't already have all the money? That would be crazy.

 

[dabig2]

Curious on your take, why is "both parties do bad things" stupid? There's quite a bit of evidence that both parties have done bad things. Are you denying that, or do you think you have to take a political side because taking no side is worse? Or are you just saying it's not constructive to the conversation?

Ding ding ding. I'm not the poster you quoted, but I'll throw in my $0.02. First, it's not "both parties do bad things". It's "both parties are the same". Slight difference in words, but huge difference in meaning. But really, the phrase itself offers no constructive dialogue to the conversation. It's the definition of dragging your opponent down with you because you really don't have a way to counter him. It's a discussion stopper.

And both parties are clearly not the same. Anyone who says this should be forced to watch a CPAC conference non-stop and then watch a liberal conference like netroots nation.

 

[Pagusas]

I think people need to realize extreme republican voters just plane think differently than the rest of us. I've had 2 bosses now that were extreme righters, and they would always preach "teach people to fish". They believed with every fiber of their being that we were becoming a nanny state and paying people not to work. This wasn't just some defensive rhetoric, this is honestly what they believe. By having strong safety net programs in place, we are supporting/enabling people to not work, to be lazy, to not know how to fend for themselves.

I know this is true of some people (I've had the displeasure of talking to a few people who talked about their disability payments as a badge of honor) I do not believe this to represent any more than a small percentage.

But good luck convincing anyone on the extreme right of that. Like I said, they think differently.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I think people need to realize extreme republican voters just plane think differently than the rest of us. I've had 2 bosses now that were extreme righters, and they would always preach "teach people to fish". They believed with every fiber of their being that we were becoming a nanny state and paying people not to work. This wasn't just some defensive rhetoric, this is honestly what they believe. By having strong safety net programs in place, we are supporting/enabling people to not work, to be lazy, to not know how to fend for themselves.

I know this is true of some people (I've had the displeasure of talking to a few people who talked about their disability payments as a badge of honor) I do not believe this to represent any more than a small percentage.

But good luck convincing anyone on the extreme right of that. Like I said, they think differently.

Shit, I believe it's best to teach people how to fish. I believe it'd be best if more people were more self reliant. I don't believe more welfare is going to "solve" the issue of poverty.

But here's the thing...when I read about people wanting to cut "entitlement" programs there's never any system or infrastructure in place that actually gives people the means to improve their socioeconomic condition in place of those "entitlements". Schools so people can get educated and be viable for a job? Cut. Daycare so working parents can actually get out there and earn their pay without worrying how they'll care for their kid? Cut. Healthcare so people are healthy and able to work? Cut.

I don't think the solution is to cut welfare. I think the solution should be to improve the core pillars of what it takes to be reasonably successful members of society: Higher education that's actually affordable, k-12 education that teaches real skills applicable to todays job market and the market of tomorrow. Minimum wage that's closer to being livable. Healthcare so people can actually do the jobs they need to. Trade skill training since it's unrealistic to think University is the end-all-be-all for getting a job. Things like that.

I guess I want welfare to become a vestigial policy that can eventually be completely reformed because it's not as needed. Not because we think "those people" are being lazy...

 

[Link]

Shit, I believe it's best to teach people how to fish. I believe it'd be best if more people were more self reliant. I don't believe more welfare is going to "solve" the issue of poverty.

But here's the thing...when I read about people wanting to cut "entitlement" programs there's never any system or infrastructure in place that actually gives people the means to improve their socioeconomic condition in place of those "entitlements". Schools so people can get educated and be viable for a job? Cut. Daycare so working parents can actually get out there and earn their pay without worrying how they'll care for their kid? Cut. Healthcare so people are healthy and able to work? Cut.

I don't think the solution is to cut welfare. I think the solution should be to improve the core pillars of what it takes to be reasonably successful members of society: Higher education that's actually affordable, k-12 education that teaches real skills applicable to todays job market and the market of tomorrow. Minimum wage that's closer to being livable. Healthcare so people can actually do the jobs they need to. Trade skill training since it's unrealistic to think University is the end-all-be-all for getting a job. Things like that.

I guess I want welfare to become a vestigial policy that can eventually be completely reformed because it's not as needed. Not because we think "those people" are being lazy...

Amen. Very well said.

"Teach a man to fish" is a great policy, but Republicans want to shut down access to the lake.

 

[metalslimer]

without someone to veto their crazy can you imagine how fucked this country will be. I would really like the resident republicans to defend them.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Shit, I believe it's best to teach people how to fish. I believe it'd be best if more people were more self reliant. I don't believe more welfare is going to "solve" the issue of poverty.

But here's the thing...when I read about people wanting to cut "entitlement" programs there's never any system or infrastructure in place that actually gives people the means to improve their socioeconomic condition in place of those "entitlements". Schools so people can get educated and be viable for a job? Cut. Daycare so working parents can actually get out there and earn their pay without worrying how they'll care for their kid? Cut. Healthcare so people are healthy and able to work? Cut.

I don't think the solution is to cut welfare. I think the solution should be to improve the core pillars of what it takes to be reasonably successful members of society: Higher education that's actually affordable, k-12 education that teaches real skills applicable to todays job market and the market of tomorrow. Minimum wage that's closer to being livable. Healthcare so people can actually do the jobs they need to. Trade skill training since it's unrealistic to think University is the end-all-be-all for getting a job. Things like that.

I guess I want welfare to become a vestigial policy that can eventually be completely reformed because it's not as needed. Not because we think "those people" are being lazy...

I love this.

Being self reliant is a beautiful thing. Nobody wants to be a slave to government dependency, but when you don't provide the actual tools to change while also taking away what keeps people afloat, this becomes less about "entitlements" and more about one group of people not only wanting to feel superior, but doing everything they can to make sure these people stay exactly where they are. Business as usual.

You nailed it.

 

[davepoobond]

Shit, I believe it's best to teach people how to fish. I believe it'd be best if more people were more self reliant. I don't believe more welfare is going to "solve" the issue of poverty.

But here's the thing...when I read about people wanting to cut "entitlement" programs there's never any system or infrastructure in place that actually gives people the means to improve their socioeconomic condition in place of those "entitlements". Schools so people can get educated and be viable for a job? Cut. Daycare so working parents can actually get out there and earn their pay without worrying how they'll care for their kid? Cut. Healthcare so people are healthy and able to work? Cut.

I don't think the solution is to cut welfare. I think the solution should be to improve the core pillars of what it takes to be reasonably successful members of society: Higher education that's actually affordable, k-12 education that teaches real skills applicable to todays job market and the market of tomorrow. Minimum wage that's closer to being livable. Healthcare so people can actually do the jobs they need to. Trade skill training since it's unrealistic to think University is the end-all-be-all for getting a job. Things like that.

I guess I want welfare to become a vestigial policy that can eventually be completely reformed because it's not as needed. Not because we think "those people" are being lazy...

I am also quoting for support.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Amen. Very well said.

"Teach a man to fish" is a great policy, but Republicans want to shut down access to the lake.

Access to the lake?

Shit. The roads to get there are bumpy and full of potholes.

 

[shem935]

Shit, I believe it's best to teach people how to fish. I believe it'd be best if more people were more self reliant. I don't believe more welfare is going to "solve" the issue of poverty.

But here's the thing...when I read about people wanting to cut "entitlement" programs there's never any system or infrastructure in place that actually gives people the means to improve their socioeconomic condition in place of those "entitlements". Schools so people can get educated and be viable for a job? Cut. Daycare so working parents can actually get out there and earn their pay without worrying how they'll care for their kid? Cut. Healthcare so people are healthy and able to work? Cut.

I don't think the solution is to cut welfare. I think the solution should be to improve the core pillars of what it takes to be reasonably successful members of society: Higher education that's actually affordable, k-12 education that teaches real skills applicable to todays job market and the market of tomorrow. Minimum wage that's closer to being livable. Healthcare so people can actually do the jobs they need to. Trade skill training since it's unrealistic to think University is the end-all-be-all for getting a job. Things like that.

I guess I want welfare to become a vestigial policy that can eventually be completely reformed because it's not as needed. Not because we think "those people" are being lazy...

This to me has always been what I thought the republican party supported and why I was a republican. Only recently have I realized it's just a dead end party.

I completely agree with all of this and wish it could happen.

 

[Oblivion]

Did that Kronose dude get banned? I still would like to hear his explanation for why it's bad for people to go to college while on food stamps.

I love this.

Being self reliant is a beautiful thing. Nobody wants to be a slave to government dependency, but when you don't provide the actual tools to change while also taking away what keeps people afloat, this becomes less about "entitlements" and more about one group of people not only wanting to feel superior, but doing everything they can to make sure these people stay exactly where they are. Business as usual.

You nailed it.

Hell, Republicans don't even really give a shit about actual self-reliance. Donald Trump is a fucking trust fund baby, and Ben Carson grew up on welfare. Neither of them would qualify as being plucky, self-respecting bootstrappers. Yet they are absolutely adored by the hard right Republican base (and media) because the only thing that matters is that they're preaching the gospel of hard work and self-reliance. It's like that asshole Sheriff who refuses to get insurance cause he hates Obama, and so had to rely on getting support from people via kickstarter, and doesn't see himself as a beggar.

 

[afternoon delight]

As someone who graduated from a state college through the assistance of Pell Grants, it's infuriating to see the Republicans try to axe it so many times.

On a personal level, it's abhorrent how they treat necessities like education and health. Fucking shameful to support.

 

[BLACKLAC]

Shit, I believe it's best to teach people how to fish. I believe it'd be best if more people were more self reliant. I don't believe more welfare is going to "solve" the issue of poverty.

But here's the thing...when I read about people wanting to cut "entitlement" programs there's never any system or infrastructure in place that actually gives people the means to improve their socioeconomic condition in place of those "entitlements". Schools so people can get educated and be viable for a job? Cut. Daycare so working parents can actually get out there and earn their pay without worrying how they'll care for their kid? Cut. Healthcare so people are healthy and able to work? Cut.

I don't think the solution is to cut welfare. I think the solution should be to improve the core pillars of what it takes to be reasonably successful members of society: Higher education that's actually affordable, k-12 education that teaches real skills applicable to todays job market and the market of tomorrow. Minimum wage that's closer to being livable. Healthcare so people can actually do the jobs they need to. Trade skill training since it's unrealistic to think University is the end-all-be-all for getting a job. Things like that.

I guess I want welfare to become a vestigial policy that can eventually be completely reformed because it's not as needed. Not because we think "those people" are being lazy...

Love this.

 

[Condom]

Can't wait for election time, Dutch journalists trying to explain Republican standpoints is hilarious.

 

[LegendofJoe]

They'd rather overspend on defense than help out the poor. Figures.

Exactly, true Christians they are not.

 

[unholyrevenger72]

Shit, I believe it's best to teach people how to fish. I believe it'd be best if more people were more self reliant. I don't believe more welfare is going to "solve" the issue of poverty.

But here's the thing...when I read about people wanting to cut "entitlement" programs there's never any system or infrastructure in place that actually gives people the means to improve their socioeconomic condition in place of those "entitlements". Schools so people can get educated and be viable for a job?

Here's the problem with this, automation. Automation WILL replace everybody with a low skilled job. Now, even if people become more skilled, those formerly high paying skilled jobs are suddenly worthless, because wage is a function of how easy it is to replace you. And this is even worse now because you now have people loaded with student debt, skilled, and know exactly what their services are worth.

It's going to come to vote of
1. Ban robots and continue indentured servitude,
2. Reduce the cost of living to nothing through automation, regulation and clean energy and provide a guaranteed annual income so the we can live as dilettantes. In this world people work because they want to work not because they have to work.

 

[onadesertedisland]

I know this might seem weird, but I think it would be a bit of relief if the republican party would just come out in favor of racism and in favor of classism towards the wealthy. All this being shady about what they're for makes it confusing.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

I once heard a person rant that poor black people are just lazy because every day on the way to work at his very hard honest job, he drove by a house with three young black men sitting on the front porch. They didn't appear to have any visible disability - at that distance you'd presume that to be indicated by a wheelchair, crutches, or limb cast - so the only possible reason they sat there is they were too lazy to be responsible people.

From that first-hand experience, this person shored up his conviction that the poor are just dirty layabouts who won't reach out their hand and take the hard but plentiful jobs anyone could have if they only tried.

Guess the idiot never heard of night shift before.

 

[metalslimer]

Food stamps was the only way my family was able to afford food when I was a kid. Honestly, I don't even know why "welfare" is even a big talking point. There is a lot more they want to cut.

 

[Condom]

Here's the problem with this, automation. Automation WILL replace everybody with a low skilled job. Now, even if people become more skilled, those formerly high paying skilled jobs are suddenly worthless, because wage is a function of how easy it is to replace you. And this is even worse now because you now have people loaded with student debt, skilled, and know exactly what their services are worth.

It's going to come to vote of
1. an robots and continue indentured servitude,
2. Reduce the cost of living to nothing through automation and clean energy so the world can live as dilettantes.

Best is to increase part-time jobs like they did here in Europe, more people doing a little work can make automation work. The US could be a wonderland for this stuff since your economy is so strong.

 

[Dryk]

One day very soon these people are going to discover that it's really hard to suck wealth out of people and hoard it when everyone is poor.

 

[Oblivion]

Honestly, I don't even know why "welfare" is even a big talking point. There is a lot more they want to cut.

Sure, but welfare is probably Republicans' favorite thing to cut.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Here's the problem with this, automation. Automation WILL replace everybody with a low skilled job. Now, even if people become more skilled, those formerly high paying skilled jobs are suddenly worthless, because wage is a function of how easy it is to replace you. And this is even worse now because you now have people loaded with student debt, skilled, and know exactly what their services are worth.

It's going to come to vote of
1. Ban robots and continue indentured servitude,
2. Reduce the cost of living to nothing through automation, regulation and clean energy and provide a guaranteed annual income so the we can live as dilettantes. In this world people work because they want to work not because they have to work.

People said this 20 years ago and it still hasn't happened to the extent it was claimed it would happen. Sure. It may happen with increased frequency over the next 50 years but in the here and now people still do most jobs. Not machines.

Sure, machines have made jobs that used to take 40 guys only need 10. So I'm not saying it's not a factor but with any system people will need to adapt. We need our policies to adapt with the world as it changes.

Problem is government changes at a glacial pace in a rapidly changing technological world. Especially here in the US when there are some that do not want to see ANY change.

 

[Hyperactivity]

"Non-defense budget cuts"

Try starting there instead

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

Republicans only support the rich. Americans continue to some how be surprised that the party they keep voting in, doesn't give two shits about them if they are not wealthy.

We will all be wealthy one day if we work hard enough, and when I'm up there I wanna keep my money, just like them.

 

[LegendofJoe]

The biggest enemy of the Republican Party is an educated voter.

To Republicans, all the education you need is in the bible.

The sad thing is that most of them haven't even read that. If they had they would know that Jesus would be staunchly opposed to the modern Republican platform.

It's a message that Democrats HAVE to start pushing. Christians should not vote lock step for a political party that does the exact opposite of what their deity taught. The Democrats need to work to split apart the coalition built on lies and misinformation that sustains the Republican party. it's the only way we can return to a sensible political environment.

 

[Condom]

The sad thing is that most of them haven't even read that. If they had they would know that Jesus would be staunchly opposed to the modern Republican platform.

It's a message that Democrats HAVE to start pushing. Christians should not vote lock step for a political party that does the exact opposite of what their deity taught. The Democrats need to work to split apart the coalition built on lies and misinformation that sustains the Republican party. it's the only way we can return to a sensible political environment.

You don't understand, conservative Christians want charity instead of government. They think everybody is going to share their wealth and help the poor on their own.

 

[LegendofJoe]

You don't understand, conservative Christians want charity instead of government. They think everybody is going to share their wealth and help the poor on their own.

So more or less free-will socialism then? That doesn't sound very Republican to me.

 

[unholyrevenger72]

People said this 20 years ago and it still hasn't happened to the extent it was claimed it would happen. Sure. It may happen with increased frequency over the next 50 years but in the here and now people still do most jobs. Not machines.

Sure, machines have made jobs that used to take 40 guys only need 10. So I'm not saying it's not a factor but with any system people will need to adapt. We need our policies to adapt with the world as it changes.

Problem is government changes at a glacial pace in a rapidly changing technological world. Especially here in the US when there are some that do not want to see ANY change.

This is a problem today, government refuses to raise minimum wage on the grounds it would kill small business (because they are so dumb to think there wouldn't be other stipulations attached, or they do know that said stipulations would take from the top), and companies would replace employees with machines.