Printed propaganda ? What in the fuck are you talking about. Might as well do away with the entire concept of science because "I saw a thing one time so thus this thing happens everywhere all the time. QED".
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Republican Budget: 2/3 of cuts from programs helping low & middle income Americans
- Thread starter NYCmetsfan
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Printed propaganda ? What in the fuck are you talking about. Might as well do away with the entire concept of science because "I saw a thing one time so thus this thing happens everywhere all the time. QED".
Fenderputty
Banned
Stats and data are liberal propoganda.
There isn't any difference, I'm not trying to get you to be like me. I'm all for people forming their own opinion, and therefore also respecting their formed opinions. I'm not trying to convince anyone to believe my way, but more so giving the reasons as to why I think that way, and why others may too.
Most Dems I know personally give no credence or legitimacy to anything besides their own views, as seen by a large majority of people posting in this thread, slamming anything to do with th GOP.
I'm not even a hard core republican, I just don't like when people blindly follow one or the other, and tell others they can't have their own opinion, formed from their own experiences. I honestly don't know why I expected any other response
I think I need to brush up on my gibberish skills.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
experience matters as much as Senator Inhofe walks outside and sees snow on the ground and claims that Global Warming isn't an issue.
get your head out of your ass.
Problem is I am not forming my opinion over "one thing this one time" but over 15 years of living on my own, in several different geographical areas
Once again, you use a single example, when I'm counting probably hundreds of instances I have encountered personally.
If you had been pulled over 25 times, each time the same thing happening and 2 times it not, what would your informed opinion be then?
I think its sad you would say I'm trolling, saying I know something is right, when its laughably not. You act like you have gone out yourself and personally proven these "facts" and statistics you have seen
AbsolutBro
Member
Maryland somehow elected a Republican governor for the first time since Ehrlich was caught trying to sell off prime real estate to his friends for below cost.
The first thing he did was draft a budget that:
1. Cut education spending
2. Revoked the first cost of living increase state employees have seen in 6 years. (after 3 years of pay cuts, mind you)
3. Cut agency budgets across the board.
4. Cut taxes on the wealthiest Marylanders.
I'm a registered republican; Maryland has closed primaries. This guy was the least evil of the bunch I had to choose from.
Link
The Autumn Wind
You seem to have no problem generalizing large groups of people based on very vague and limited personal experiences.
Wait, how is this a bad thing?
BeatResetsTheWorld
Banned
Come on. You think food stamps are being abused. You probably think voter fraud is serious and rampant too...
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
There's no chance at this going into effect until republicans gain full control of the government. Basically think of it as preview of what Republicans plan to do if 2016 ends up going their way.
It might as well be "one thing this one time" when you consider the fact that over 45 MILLION people are on food stamps.
The removal of this deduction would basically gut the housing market. Recent history suggests that the economy hinges on a healthy housing market.
Truth is, anyone who owns a home benefits equally from this deduction relative to their income and therefore value of their home. It's not like it penalizes the poor.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Please read this wikipedia page.
Since you arguably have no idea what statistics are. I'm not even sure how that's possible.
Wat? Going by this logic we can never trust anything statistics or science says unless we've done the research ourselves.
What is this? LOL
titiklabingapat
Member
It would have been a great joke if it weren't for the fact that a lot of poor and middle class people vote for the GOP in every single cycle....
Thankfully I'll be able to vote by then, so I'll try to rally up some of my friends to vote for the Demo candidate! This is
a terrible budget.
CharlieDigital
Banned
Who do you think disproportionately owns homes and who do you think disproportionately rents homes?
To be quite honest, the housing market is really fucked up. One thing I love about Zillow and Realtor.com is that you can see the prior sales history of properties and it's quite insane to see how housing prices have changed in the last 15 years.
Compare that to the salaries of your average middle income American and it's wholly disproportional. What changed?
Strongly recommend this book for anyone curious.
Fenderputty
Banned
Also, one thing that constantly bugs me about the "cut welfare and people will go out and get jobs" line. That wouldn't seem like an overall terrible thing to suggest if we were at full employment. But we're not*. Plenty of people right now want to work, but there's not that many jobs available. How do you deal with that?
*Yes, the economy has made great gains over the past two years but we've still got a ways to go.
*Yes, the economy has made great gains over the past two years but we've still got a ways to go.
unholyrevenger72
Banned
Link
The Autumn Wind
Also, if people were happy to just stay on welfare and not having to work, why have unemployment numbers been steadily decreasing?
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The GOP's actual party platform is limiting government spending and government influence. I'm not sure why you're demanding a litany of statistics to back that up.
AstroNut325
Member
I didn't know where else to put this: https://youtu.be/0UjpmT5noto
Well it's anecdotal evidence, but that is, in the grand scheme of things, worthless. That's why the scientific method exists: to very plainly distinguish between anecdotal evidence and empirical evidence. If a person's first-hand views were treated equally with real empirical evidence, the concept of a "fact" loses all meaning -- anyone could say anything to dispute any held notion, nothing would ever be objective again because you could always contradict a claim with what you've seen in your own life.
I can understand that you've personally seen more people abuse the food stamps program than actually deserve it. I don't necessarily believe it and would argue, even within your own purview, it's a pretty skewed sample -- you're more likely to see people abuse welfare than use it as intended because abuses are far more egregious, and those who are modest or even embarrassed about relying on food stamps aren't going to broadcast to everyone they know.
But even if your personal experience was derived from a very accurate, unbiased study sample, the fact is that wider statistical data collected and released by an official agency IS more factual, more reliable, and more REAL than any one person's testimony about what they've experienced themselves. Sorry, that's just how science and statistics work.
shiftplusone
Member
what the fuck?
I bet you "read" that in a fuckin liberal dictionary.
I used my OWN experience and sounded it out and guess what? Your "facts" book doesn't agree with my reality
checkgame, libtards
Link
The Autumn Wind
But they don't actually limit spending and influence. They pick and choose what they like. They have no problem with spending and influence on things like the military or same-sex marriage and abortion rights.
Dr. Benton Quest
Banned
I have never seen someone double down so hard on a logical fallacy. It's really impressive.
You're "probably hundreds of instances" mean nothing compared to decades of peer reviewed studies done by actual scientists with huge sample sizes.
Facts don't care how you "feel".
Jeffolation
Banned
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I don't know that its true that they don't actually limit spending, and the social agenda and the economic agenda are totally different things.
Its not that I agree with the GOP position or even the actual specific cuts they've made (and I don't believe I'm qualified to really analyze it and say at the moment), but I think there's very little effort on the part of young liberals to understand why conservatives do anything in particular.
If you have to personally prove any stat ever published, again, nothing would ever be agreed upon. The vast majority of planet Earth does not have the time, knowledge or resources to collect, analyze, and summarize data extracted over a wide enough sample size. That's why we assign that job to professional mathematicians and scientists and trust that what they have to say is accurate. They're not infallible, but they are the closest we have to authorities on the matter. And when you come to a conflict between what they say is happening and what you see as the case, you have to humble yourself enough to consider that maybe your personal observations -- surprisingly -- AREN'T representative of the lives of 300 million people.
I would argue that abortion rights are, to an extent, an economic issue as well as a social one.
Edit: I'm a young liberal, and I would love to understand the reasoning behind this. However, all I see here is that Republicans are trying to take away the stepping stones poor people use to try to advance. I know a lot of people on food stamps, and cutting money from the program will just make their lives impossibly hard if they get cut from it. Programs like this allow them to focus on getting their education instead of finding a minimum wage job. Idk how many of my friends would be able to attend university without that aid. And they're planning on cutting the Pell Grant money too? Iu would probably have to attend community college instead of UCLA without that. And without ACA I can just forget about health insurance. You say we don't see what conservatives are trying to do with these policies but I say they don't know that they're fucking with real people's lives. We're not just dollar signs on a budget
Defense spending, setting contracts for weapons the military doesn't want or need, just to provide work for defense contractors.
Such financial conservationism.
Expanding Medicare in the past, without setting up any way to pay for it, and then complain when a new Democratic administration takes over that they are running up debt.
Waging Wars off of the budget, just to keep the appearance of financial conservatism.
Republicans hate them because they're poor....and because they're minorities.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I think their position is that they want to make cuts to program they think won't have a deleterious effect on the economy in general.
I don't have the facts to say whether cutting defense spending would in-fact have that effect. The other issue is that defense spending is also closely tied to the GOP position on foreign affairs.
This is the kind of thing I'm talking about.
Can you link me to some reactions to that move? I think that would be entertaining.
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Don't forget about their opposition to unions and minimum wage laws. Even if those policies did create more jobs and you argue "4 dollars an hour is better than 0 dollars an hour", it's still incredibly cruel to combine it with removing any help with food and healthcare for all the people that can only find 4 dollars an hour jobs.
Cutting programs that helps keep people fed and off the street wont affecting the economy?
The conservative platform is not some grand mystery. Conservatives believe in a idealized version of America where success is a hard day's work away, and if you're not succeeding, it's because you're not trying hard enough. So social spending is just seen as waste, because if anyone needs welfare to get through life, it's because they're lazy and why should we reward laziness when the rest of us have to work?
And the GOP supports increases, rather than cuts, to defense spending because that's where the fucking money is. When the Secretary of Defense is telling you the army doesn't need more tanks and that there are hundreds of unused tanks sitting out in the desert, and the GOP's response is "more funding for tanks," the hand-in-pocket here should be abundantly clear.
Someone else said it earlier, but I would entertain this notion if I was provided clear, empirical evidence by said Republican framers that these cuts won't have deleterious effects on the economy.
I don't think anyone is saying that there is no fraud or abuse. Hell, I was at the grocery store a few months ago and a lady came up and asked if we wanted to pay her cash for her to use her EBT card. I told her she better skitte and because I worked for the department in charge of the program at the state level and my brother, that was with me, works for the department of corrections. I then reported her to store staff which went to hunt her down.
It happens. It's just not as much as you are hyperbolically stating.
I'm curious to know what you've seen that has been bad. I've seen you talk about how you've seen lots of people take advantage of welfare, but can you actually explain to us what they've done to be so bad? Also, can you explain why you think its bad? For instance, you said that someone on food stamps was doing it because they wouldn't work 40 hours a week and go to school. Why is this bad? What makes this person "taking advantage of" food stamps vs someone else?
Here's some anecdotal evidence for you - everyone I've ever known who HAS been on food stamps, was on there for 1 of 2 reasons - #1 - they work at wal-mart or some other very large company and they aren't paid enough. They aren't able to get better jobs, not because they don't want to, but because they don't have the mental capacity to do better. An example (but not the only one) is my husbands brother. He was born when their mom was later in her years (he was an "oops) and he is mildly mentally handicapped. He can't do anything better because he literally doesn't have the mental capacity. So he works at Wal-Mart as a night stocker. And he's on food stamps.
Second example - more than one girl, youngish age, late-late teens, very early 20s, with a kid and no husband/man in her life. She also, while not my BIL's speed, also isn't very smart or bright. She was on food stamps while working heavily to make sure her daughter got fed.
All of my personal anecdotal evidence is the complete opposite of yours. And yes, I do believe I've seen "hundreds" of these people.
There are always going to be "some" people that take advantage of a program out there, regardless of WHAT program it is. Rich, poor, people are selfish. But to say that a program needs to be cut back is only punishing the people who need it to spite the few who are taking advantage of it.
The biggest enemy of the Republican Party is an educated voter.
To Republicans, all the education you need is in the bible.
I just call it like I see it, Mr. Angry Grimace sir.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
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