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[Coriolanus]

So viewing it first hand isn't evidence??

You putting figures out you say you retrieved from some document a person posted is more "factual" than what I have seen and experienced first hand? Please tell me you see how ridiculous that sounds. I'm giving my first hand account, saying I am FOR helping people that need it, but see first hand that most abide it, whether its with what they buy, lying on income to receive the benefits, or just plain being lazy so they can get free food

What you're actually doing is saying very loudly that you've no idea how statistics work.

 

[davepoobond]

- food stamp budget should be revised and better monitored so it is not abused, which it probably is most of the time, and no I don't have any figures on hand, just by what I see and have seen first hand, most people are abusing it or don't have to be on it, but they do it because they can work less and get things for free, or not work at all

Most people are abusng it? Lol

Why don't you go live on food stamps for a while and see how it is to get things for free and "not work at all?"

Just by what you see? What sort of experience do you have? Are you a cashier at a grocery store scrutinizing people's purchases on EBT?

 

[kronose]

HAHAHH ...

I have no evidence that food stamps are abused. But they are. I know it. I have anecdotal evidence to support my already existing confirmation bias.

Stay and debate if you feel you're being unfairly dumped on. I would love to see what else you're going to offer up.

Another highly educated post to further point why I didn't want to post in the first place. Someone ridiculing and mocking from the safety of their keyboard instead of discussing or talking. You are the exact type if person that makes discussion impossible and a waste of time.

Experience first hand is evidence, I was stating I don't have figures from a printed document to support me at the moment, nor would they be accurate anyways as most print journalism is Biased and propaganda to support what they want to believe or support, thus why most of you bash Fox News, because of its bias to say what supports it's statements, while others scream "false" reporting.

Surely you can't be so dense to think it's one sided, and only happens with republicans

 

[smokeandmirrors]

So viewing it first hand isn't evidence??

You putting figures out you say you retrieved from some document a person posted is more "factual" than what I have seen and experienced first hand? Please tell me you see how ridiculous that sounds. I'm giving my first hand account, saying I am FOR helping people that need it, but see first hand that most abide it, whether its with what they buy, lying on income to receive the benefits, or just plain being lazy so they can get free food

Anecdotal evidence is often unscientific or pseudoscientific because various forms of cognitive bias may affect the collection or presentation of evidence. For instance, someone who claims to have had an encounter with a supernatural being or alien may present a very vivid story, but this is not falsifiable. This phenomenon can also happen to large groups of people through subjective validation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

 

[Link]

So viewing it first hand isn't evidence??

You putting figures out you say you retrieved from some document a person posted is more "factual" than what I have seen and experienced first hand? Please tell me you see how ridiculous that sounds. I'm giving my first hand account, saying I am FOR helping people that need it, but see first hand that most abide it, whether its with what they buy, lying on income to receive the benefits, or just plain being lazy so they can get free food

Anecdotes are not evidence, no. Especially when you're using it say something is being abused most of the time.

 

[dead souls]

Let them pass it



The long-term blowback will essentially destroy the Republicans as a viable political platform for a generation if not more

I wish I could agree with this, but Republicans are masters of getting people to vote against their own self-interest.

 

[Derwind]

The poor only exist to the GOP so they can gerrymander their districts and steal what little they can get of them.

Poor/Low income republicans are like in some masochistic/abusive relationship with their elected repeesentatives.

Ugh.

 

[Fenderputty]

So viewing it first hand isn't evidence??

You putting figures out you say you retrieved from some document a person posted is more "factual" than what I have seen and experienced first hand? Please tell me you see how ridiculous that sounds. I'm giving my first hand account, saying I am FOR helping people that need it, but see first hand that most abide it, whether its with what they buy, lying on income to receive the benefits, or just plain being lazy so they can get free food

Did you just double down on anecdotal evidence?

 

[balladofwindfishes]

So viewing it first hand isn't evidence??

You putting figures out you say you retrieved from some document a person posted is more "factual" than what I have seen and experienced first hand? Please tell me you see how ridiculous that sounds. I'm giving my first hand account, saying I am FOR helping people that need it, but see first hand that most abide it, whether its with what they buy, lying on income to receive the benefits, or just plain being lazy so they can get free food

I don't even know if I'm being trolled, because this is like, a textbook parody post. I'm trying to not be confrontational or piling on but... this post is just silly.

Anecdotal evidence doesn't trump a country wide survey done by professionals. It never does and never will. Food Stamps are not abused in a large enough amount to matter. This is a fact.

Cutting funding and scaling it back won't stop what little abuse there is (because it's effectively 0), it will just take food away from poor people and their families. What you're saying is you'd rather have someone not eat for a week who needs it, because you have a "feeling" that someone else might just buy some beer with their food stamps even if there's nothing to actually back that up.

You don't see how ridiculous that sounds?

 

[davepoobond]

Another highly educated post to further point why I didn't want to post in the first place. Someone ridiculing and mocking from the safety of their keyboard instead of discussing or talking. You are the exact type if person that makes discussion impossible and a waste of time.

Experience first hand is evidence, I was stating I don't have figures from a printed document to support me at the moment, nor would they be accurate anyways as most print journalism is Biased and propaganda to support what they want to believe or support, thus why most of you bash Fox News, because of its bias to say what supports it's statements, while others scream "false" reporting.

Surely you can't be so dense to think it's one sided, and only happens with republicans

You are calling poor people lazy fraudulent people, and you have the gall to get uppity when someone calls you out on it and say they are ridiculing YOU?

How about you draw back on the inflammatory rhetoric and stop calling people who use food stamps lazy and fraudulent. You're being the jerk here

 

[Paskil]

Yeah, no. I do state level quality control work with food stamps and you're attempting to vastly overstate the actual level of fraud and abuse. What you might consider abuse, might also be perfectly legitimate use of funds under state/Federal regulations. Did you know you can use food stamps in Alaska to purchase some hunting equipment? There are no limitations against buying steak, lobster, or other 'decadent" foods.

 

[kronose]

Most people are abusng it? Lol

Why don't you go live on food stamps for a while and see how it is to get things for free and "not work at all?"

Just by what you see? What sort of experience do you have? Are you a cashier at a grocery store scrutinizing people's purchases on EBT?

I've seen people I know want to go back to college and go on food stamps. They didn't Get their degree right out of HS, and are very capable of working while going back, but didn't want to because it would be harder and more time consuming on them. I went to school full time and worked 40 hours a week for years, so I know it can be done.

I lived in Oak Cliff in Dallas, very poor crime ridden neighborhood, and saw this daily, first hand, yes. Obviously there are exceptions to the rules, people fallen on hard times, people trying to make ends meet but can't who need the help, single mothers etc...

But as I said, most of my first hand experiences were not if that sort, sorry if you don't believe me

 

[dabig2]

When it comes to setting policy for millions of people strewn across 2 billion acres of land, then no, anecdotal evidence is not enough. I don't care if literally every Gaf Republican on this board can note down 10 instances where it was seen with their own eyes (hell, I'll even allow judgmental assumption of foul play here).

 

[Angry Grimace]

That's a very naive way to look at government spending.

Who do you think that the US military benefits the most? The wealthy corporations or low-income individuals? Who has more assets to protect and who has more reason to project American interests abroad?

Who do you think the American legal system benefits the most? The wealthy corporations or low-income individuals? Who has more assets to project and who has more utility of the court and justice systems?

Who do you think benefits the most from federal subsidies to private industries? The wealthy corporations or low-income individuals?

Who do you think benefits the most from a stable market system enabled by trust built on a foundation of (relatively) strong and sound regulations and legal enforcement? The wealthy corporations and individuals or low-income individuals?

Who do you think benefits the most from reliable, well maintained infrastructure to enable commerce? The wealthy corporations and individuals or the low-income Americans?

I am generalizing that point, yes, but the thing is, it seems to me that very few younger liberals have a coherent understanding of why the GOP and GOP voters do basically anything other than "well, they're evil." Its not that cut and dried.

 

[mackattk]

So, if the arguments are that food stamps users are using food stamps to get food "above their station", what are foods that can be purchased with food stamps that opponents would deem acceptable?

I don't think there is an answer to that. Just the use of food stamps in and of itself will piss people off.

 

[kronose]

You are calling poor people lazy fraudulent people, and you have the gall to get uppity when someone calls you out on it and say they are ridiculing YOU?

How about you draw back on the inflammatory rhetoric and stop calling people who use food stamps lazy and fraudulent. You're being the jerk here

Lol, I never said poor people are lazy. I've been poor, have you? I've lived in a dump with no money wondering where my next mean would come from, so I can speak from experience. Get off your soapbox, I have a different view from you, so what. You can think what you want from reading sheets of paper, I will make my views from my personal life experiences.

I love how you dwell on me saying they're lazy yet ignore that I state that some people do need it, and I recognize that. Get over yourself

 

[To Far Away Times]

Republican platform in a nutshell: God, guns, and gays. And screwing over the lower and middle class.

 

[kronose]

Yeah, no. I do state level quality control work with food stamps and you're attempting to vastly overstate the actual level of fraud and abuse. What you might consider abuse, might also be perfectly legitimate use of funds under state/Federal regulations. Did you know you can use food stamps in Alaska to purchase some hunting equipment? There are no limitations against buying steak, lobster, or other 'decadent" foods.

Then I guess I view "abuse" differently than the regulations state them.

 

[Paskil]

Lol, I never said poor people are lazy. I've been poor, have you? I've lived in a dump with no money wondering where my next mean would come from, so I can speak from experience. Get off your soapbox, I have a different view from you, so what. You can think what you want from reading sheets of paper, I will make my views from my personal life experiences.

I love how you dwell on me saying they're lazy yet ignore that I state that some people do need it, and I recognize that. Get over yourself

You're still vastly overstating the level of fraud and abuse. Your observations mean shit when you compare them to the overall dollars allocated to SNAP. Fraud and abuse constitute around 3% of funding.

Then I guess I view "abuse" differently than the regulations state them.

Then write your lawmakers because you might be wrong. Your rhetoric is toxic, in my opinion.

 

[Fenderputty]

I've never been called dense for refusing to acknowledge anecdotes before.

 

[The Technomancer]

Lol, I never said poor people are lazy. I've been poor, have you? I've lived in a dump with no money wondering where my next mean would come from, so I can speak from experience. Get off your soapbox, I have a different view from you, so what. You can think what you want from reading sheets of paper, I will make my views from my personal life experiences.

Tell me, do you feel climate change is false because you had a cold winter?

Actually, how can you be sure the earth is round? It looks flat to me

 

[Link]

Lol, I never said poor people are lazy. I've been poor, have you? I've lived in a dump with no money wondering where my next mean would come from, so I can speak from experience. Get off your soapbox, I have a different view from you, so what. You can think what you want from reading sheets of paper, I will make my views from my personal life experiences.

I love how you dwell on me saying they're lazy yet ignore that I state that some people do need it, and I recognize that. Get over yourself

But it's cool to cut all those people off that need it because you "saw some people abuse it those times"?

 

[davepoobond]

I've seen people I know want to go back to college and go on food stamps. They didn't Get their degree right out of HS, and are very capable of working while going back, but didn't want to because it would be harder and more time consuming on them. I went to school full time and worked 40 hours a week for years, so I know it can be done.

I lived in Oak Cliff in Dallas, very poor crime ridden neighborhood, and saw this daily, first hand, yes. Obviously there are exceptions to the rules, people fallen on hard times, people trying to make ends meet but can't who need the help, single mothers etc...

But as I said, most of my first hand experiences were not if that sort, sorry if you don't believe me

And the difference between you and them is that you're not on food stamps and have a job.

You think taking away their food is an acceptable form of motivation for them to contribute to society in a way that you see fit? You want people to be starving on the streets getting into debt because they can't afford food AND school?

There are "exceptions" to your rule because that is the typical case. Your "experience" is not social research and you've no actual basis in your reasoning other than the rhetoric being fed to you by republicans looking for votes and campaign dollars.

 

[CharlieDigital]

...few younger liberals have a coherent understanding of why the GOP and GOP voters do basically anything other than "well, they're evil." Its not that cut and dried.

With few exceptions (I'm looking at you, Jon Huntsman), it's generally true.

What's the last non-evil thing Republicans voted to pass? How many "good" things have they tried to stymie?

Guys like Huntsman are so fed up at the Republican party and base, he's basically renounced his (R).

 

[Somnid]

Food stamps should be given to everyone. One thing people don't tend to realize about handouts or charity is that it typically becomes an instrument of oppression because it's naturally stigmatizing. Also, it's sensibly more fair to do it that way. Yeah the well off don't need it but who cares? They probably won't use it but anyone who could will naturally use it to their advantage and that's the whole point.

 

[kronose]

I don't even know if I'm being trolled, because this is like, a textbook parody post. I'm trying to not be confrontational or piling on but... this post is just silly.

Anecdotal evidence doesn't trump a country wide survey done by professionals. It never does and never will. Food Stamps are not abused in a large enough amount to matter. This is a fact.

Cutting funding and scaling it back won't stop what little abuse there is (because it's effectively 0), it will just take food away from poor people and their families. What you're saying is you'd rather have someone not eat for a week who needs it, because you have a "feeling" that someone else might just buy some beer with their food stamps even if there's nothing to actually back that up.

You don't see how ridiculous that sounds?[/QUOTE

And yet what you state I say I never actually said?? I never said don't help those who need it, and never said I want people to go hungry. Once again, another post saying I said not to help those that need it, which I specifically said we should be helping those who need it. I feel like it should be regulated better

Do you really think they go and review all cases to see they QOL and what they're doing with the money? The families I know never had anything researched about them or their finances thoroughly examined. They just applied , got the benefits, and that was that. There was no "audit" because our Gvmt probably doesn't have the man power assigned to audit it or even care that much.

 

[InfiniteBento]

This is so surprising.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

So viewing it first hand isn't evidence??

You putting figures out you say you retrieved from some document a person posted is more "factual" than what I have seen and experienced first hand? Please tell me you see how ridiculous that sounds. I'm giving my first hand account, saying I am FOR helping people that need it, but see first hand that most abide it, whether its with what they buy, lying on income to receive the benefits, or just plain being lazy so they can get free food

The reason why it's more factual is because you're using an informal fallacy; the "person who" fallacy, pretty similar to hasty generalizations.

Anecdotes aren't representative of typical experiences; usually it's the ones that said person remembers most. Hence why statistical evidence carries more weight.

 

[dabig2]

But it's cool to cut all those people off that need it because you "saw some people abuse it those times"?

I would actually like this logic if we also applied it to corporations, banks, and the military. Throw in federal student loans while you're at it so I can see the mental gymnastics College Republicans will engage in to claim it isn't fair.

 

[Pelydr]

I've seen people I know want to go back to college and go on food stamps. They didn't Get their degree right out of HS, and are very capable of working while going back, but didn't want to because it would be harder and more time consuming on them. I went to school full time and worked 40 hours a week for years, so I know it can be done.

I lived in Oak Cliff in Dallas, very poor crime ridden neighborhood, and saw this daily, first hand, yes. Obviously there are exceptions to the rules, people fallen on hard times, people trying to make ends meet but can't who need the help, single mothers etc...

But as I said, most of my first hand experiences were not if that sort, sorry if you don't believe me

You are so full of shit its almost amazing. ACTUAL DATA shows that welfare isn't abused at a high level. Stop watching fox news.

 

[Link]

kronose probably thinks voter fraud is a big issue too.

 

[dskillzhtown]

But it's cool to cut all those people off that need it because you "saw some people abuse it those times"?

Of course. Isn't that basis enough to change policy and budget? Screw that the "working poor" is at a level that hasn't been seen in recent history. Screw the fact that even by government estimates that fraud is under 5% in public assistance. Kronose saw some people who abused the system so massive cuts are justified.

First hand experience > statistics and audits.

 

[SliceSabre]

Another highly educated post to further point why I didn't want to post in the first place. Someone ridiculing and mocking from the safety of their keyboard instead of discussing or talking. You are the exact type if person that makes discussion impossible and a waste of time.

Experience first hand is evidence, I was stating I don't have figures from a printed document to support me at the moment, nor would they be accurate anyways as most print journalism is Biased and propaganda to support what they want to believe or support, thus why most of you bash Fox News, because of its bias to say what supports it's statements, while others scream "false" reporting.

Surely you can't be so dense to think it's one sided, and only happens with republicans

aka: "Even if facts are presented proving me wrong I will automatically assume they are bias and disregard them thusly I can never be proven wrong!"

 

[kronose]

And the difference between you and them is that you're not on food stamps and have a job.

You think taking away their food is an acceptable form of motivation for them to contribute to society in a way that you see fit? You want people to be starving on the streets getting into debt because they can't afford food AND school?

There are "exceptions" to your rule because that is the typical case. Your "experience" is not social research and you've no actual basis in your reasoning other than the rhetoric being fed to you by republicans looking for votes and campaign dollars.

Dear god, my experience is not social research? So when did printed propaganda become more viable than actual experience? i have nothing else to say, since apparently people like you think experience doesn't matter, only what others tell you matters

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I am generalizing that point, yes, but the thing is, it seems to me that very few younger liberals have a coherent understanding of why the GOP and GOP voters do basically anything other than "well, they're evil." Its not that cut and dried.

But it's hard to not look at something like this and feel like it's particularly cruel and impact to the weakest of society and not see that as "evil"

You're trying to spin the article and facts to try and deflect it. Let's not sugar coat this.

This budget is disproportionately harmful to the poor. But by saying that all programs help the poor, you make it seem like the idea that this budget is devastating and cruel to the weakest in society is just slander and bias and the article is wrong and people who believe this are just uninformed... when it's not like that at all.

It's basically textbook spin.

It's convenient you didn't provide any particular reason for these cuts. You just keep saying that liberals are uniformed about why the GOP might do these cuts. So inform us, and make sure you come backed with statistics.

 

[kronose]

aka: "Even if facts are presented proving me wrong I will automatically assume they are bias and disregard them thusly I can never be proven wrong!"

Aka, what I call facts is any paper "statistic" that is thrown in front of me, even if my own personal experience contradicts it.

By this belief, you should be believing what the GOP is telling you, instead of your own experience

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

I am generalizing that point, yes, but the thing is, it seems to me that very few younger liberals have a coherent understanding of why the GOP and GOP voters do basically anything other than "well, they're evil." Its not that cut and dried.

Honestly, as a black guy, "well, they're evil" isn't that far off. At least in relation to me and others like me.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

Dear god, my experience is not social research? So when did printed propaganda become more viable than actual experience? i have nothing else to say, since apparently people like you think experience doesn't matter, only what others tell you matters

Did you use the scientific method? Was your sample size big enough to make the conclusion you are trying to make? Did you keep accurate notes of each sample?

Also "printed propaganda" HAHAHA you're too much.

 

[Fenderputty]

This guy is why we will never have a citizens wage.

 

[Link]

Dear god, my experience is not social research? So when did printed propaganda become more viable than actual experience? i have nothing else to say, since apparently people like you think experience doesn't matter, only what others tell you matters

Your posts are nothing but printed propaganda to the rest of us. What makes you any different than all the sources you're discrediting?

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Now THIS is some class warfare.....

And this is also why as much as I loathe the Democrats on certain issues I'll end up voting for them. Because my mother would be out in the fucking street if it wasn't for social security for her and my sister who's been severely brain damaged since birth.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Why do Republicans hate poor people?

Because poor republicans are easy to manipulate. Let's strrip away things that can actually help them, but get them to vote for us anyway by creating boogeyman issues like gay marriage, immigration and socialism. Republicans are masters at getting these fools to vote against their own self interest.

 

[kronose]

You are so full of shit its almost amazing. ACTUAL DATA shows that welfare isn't abused at a high level. Stop watching fox news.

Sorry, I have never watched Fox News a days in my life, unless you count fox sports. Sorry you don't like people that have a different view for yours, and see things from a different perspective

 

[davepoobond]

Lol, I never said poor people are lazy.

I'm giving my first hand account, saying I am FOR helping people that need it, but see first hand that most abide it, whether its with what they buy, lying on income to receive the benefits, or just plain being lazy so they can get free food

indeed, you just say all the people YOU see on food stamps are lazy, and since you are claiming that the majority of people on food stamps are abusing it:

- food stamp budget should be revised and better monitored so it is not abused, which it probably is most of the time, and no I don't have any figures on hand, just by what I see and have seen first hand, most people are abusing it or don't have to be on it, but they do it because they can work less and get things for free, or not work at all

then that means that MOST PEOPLE who are getting food stamps are lazy.

That is what you said.

I've been poor, have you? I've lived in a dump with no money wondering where my next mean would come from, so I can speak from experience. Get off your soapbox, I have a different view from you, so what. You can think what you want from reading sheets of paper, I will make my views from my personal life experiences.

I love how you dwell on me saying they're lazy yet ignore that I state that some people do need it, and I recognize that. Get over yourself

"some people"

you can have a different view as me, that's fine, but at least be INFORMED when you are making inflammatory opinions like this.

 

[DarkFlow]

So viewing it first hand isn't evidence??

You putting figures out you say you retrieved from some document a person posted is more "factual" than what I have seen and experienced first hand? Please tell me you see how ridiculous that sounds. I'm giving my first hand account, saying I am FOR helping people that need it, but see first hand that most abide it, whether its with what they buy, lying on income to receive the benefits, or just plain being lazy so they can get free food

I'm going to tell you right now you can't do that. I've been on food stamps a few times, they want every scrape of paper you have on your income. Bank records, 2 months worth of wage slips, you name it. Last time I applied they wanted bank records for a bank we closed 2 years prior.

 

[Sobriquet]

Dear god, my experience is not social research? So when did printed propaganda become more viable than actual experience? i have nothing else to say, since apparently people like you think experience doesn't matter, only what others tell you matters

How can you not understand that facts outweigh personal anecdotes?

 

[Duxxy3]

The best part is that the people that voted these assholes into office are the most effected by these cuts.

 

[SliceSabre]

Aka, what I call facts is any paper "statistic" that is thrown in front of me, even if my own personal experience contradicts it.

By this belief, you should be believing what the GOP is telling you, instead of your own experience

In other words you make your own facts regardless of what reality actually is.

Got ya.

 

[Suite Pee]

I'm afraid that they've whipped their voterbase into such obedience and ignorance that none of this shit will matter. So, not only will this increase suffering in this country by a significant margin, there will also be very few, if any, political consequences.

 

[dskillzhtown]

Dear god, my experience is not social research? So when did printed propaganda become more viable than actual experience? i have nothing else to say, since apparently people like you think experience doesn't matter, only what others tell you matters

You are one person who witnessed some people abuse the system. Honestly, your story doesn't sound much like abuse to tell the truth. But anyway, have moved over to trolling now. There have been audits which prove out the level of fraud. Your experience doesn't trump that. You know that. You are just arguing to argue at this point.

If I was pulled over by a racist cop, who called me the n-word should I think that all cops are racists? That is my experience so it has to be true for all cops, right?