Rumour: Next Xbox to cost twice as much as PS6

Are we enthusiasts overvaluing Steam when it comes to a console? I'm not sure how many of the current 120+ million PlayStation users really care about Steam. I know there is some crossover but why would console only gamers care?
I believe you're thinking about it the wrong way. As Spencer called it at the start of the gen, 90% of people already know which console they're going to buy before they even start thinking about it. This isn't about the PlayStation faithful or the Xbox faithful: the console wars are over, Sony won. What Microsoft is doing is trying to expand into different markets - markets that haven't already made up their minds yet. The hypothetical market who'd love a cost effective gaming PC under their TV, but don't like all the fuss and money involved. For that market, a USD$749 PS6 that's virtually the same as the PS5 against an overpowered Xbox at USD$999 that also runs all of their new and existing Steam games? Sony doesn't win that fight in that hypothetical market. Now, even if that value proposition chips away a couple of percentage points from Sony's faithful, it'll never be enough to reignite the console wars. And the high price tag will likely lose Microsoft any gains that they may make in the traditional console space - assuming anyone in the console space gives a crap about Steam. So, how big is Microsoft's hypothetical new TV gaming PC market? I don't think anyone can actually say - but they seem to think it's big enough to bet on.
 
Spencer said like a year+ ago the loss leader model wasn't working for them, goes hand in hand with allowing other stores, AKA releasing PC's with some console like OS improvements.
 
If this indeed happens, MS is truly braindead when it comes to hardware.

The fact that they are not tied down to relying on console sales to stay alive is a good thing. They make insane amounts of money regardless and I don't have to buy an under powered closed console like Nintendo fanboys. More options like with my PC. The initial price is nothing for the freedom it will offer. I'm already used to paying a premium for my PCs.
 
It's not that crazy of an idea. Simple really.

MS wants OEMs to build most of the Xbox Ecosystem hardware for them. MS only builds the baseline that devs build for and sell it through their online website mostly. The OEMs are allowed to come up with a thriving ecosystem like they do for windows PCs or Xbox controllers, and then profit off that hardware.

OEMs won't build closed system devices because it limits their potential sales. They want the largest TAM (Total Addressable Market), where they can build devices that can cater to both PC gamers or Console gamers.

Thus MS allowing third party PC stores on consoles. ALL the Xbox family of devices that they are building toward, have to have both PC stores to appeal to PC users and Console BC/FC to appeal to console users.

Xbox users don't need to care about the Steam ecosystem at all and can ignore it completely, like I do. But I still understand the reasoning behind such a move by MS. It ties Console hardware at the hip to PC gaming ecosystem overall, and ensures the ecosystem survives and can thrive long term.
I'm not sure what this has to do with my response.
 
I believe you're thinking about it the wrong way. As Spencer called it at the start of the gen, 90% of people already know which console they're going to buy before they even start thinking about it. This isn't about the PlayStation faithful or the Xbox faithful: the console wars are over, Sony won. What Microsoft is doing is trying to expand into different markets - markets that haven't already made up their minds yet. The hypothetical market who'd love a cost effective gaming PC under their TV, but don't like all the fuss and money involved. For that market, a USD$749 PS6 that's virtually the same as the PS5 against an overpowered Xbox at USD$999 that also runs all of their new and existing Steam games? Sony doesn't win that fight in that hypothetical market. Now, even if that value proposition chips away a couple of percentage points from Sony's faithful, it'll never be enough to reignite the console wars. And the high price tag will likely lose Microsoft any gains that they may make in the traditional console space - assuming anyone in the console space gives a crap about Steam. So, how big is Microsoft's hypothetical new TV gaming PC market? I don't think anyone can actually say - but they seem to think it's big enough to bet on.
You originally said "and unless Sony is aiming to have Steam on their own console, they'll come up short even if they're $200 cheaper." That was what I was responding to so saying console gamers have already made up their minds makes little sense in that context. Unless I am missing the context.

I most likely am overthinking it (aren't we all?) but I do not believe traditional console gamers are looking for a console that runs all of their Steam games. Especially if those console gamers have never purchased Steam games. I could be wrong, but I do not believe the majority of console gamers are looking for a PC or PC-lite. They don't want complications like running different store fronts, operating systems or booting into desk top mode at all. That being said, I do believe as the costs of consoles go up, there is going to be an exit from the market. Some people will just not be able to afford it. Now, will some of them go to PC and choose the PC-lite Xbox? Maybe. It will probably come down to costs. That, or they might just leave the market all together and start playing games on their phones.
 
Why would they do that?
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maybe because they want to actually have a huge hardware jump?
if the leaked specs of the PS6 are accurate, it's such a tiny perfomance jump, that you can essentially call it a PS5 Pro Pro.

The leak spec had 40 GBs of RAM in it right? How is that a PS5 Pro Pro?
 
Pretty much what I'm expecting. What people still don't get is that MS was right with the Series S model. Prices never came down. They called that in 2018 or 2019 when they were finalizing it. Sony is just now admitting it was correct.

MS is calling it now as well, prices are going to be high and subsidization can't keep it down like before. In that scenario you're closer to PC pricing but don't have all the features.

The market has CLEARLY shown that MS did not do the right thing with the Series S.
 
If it has a lightweight hypervisor that hosts a regular Windows desktop VM, absolutely. It would be trivial, in fact. No need for application level emulation. They could just launch it and pause/resume as they see fit. The user wouldn't even need to know.
Yep, basically suspend and launch between Xbox and PC modes. It would be a bit clunky but I am sure they will have something to hide that process.
 
No matter what happens, it seems Nintendo will have the low-bar for entry price in the console space, now and in perpetuity. This holiday will be Pokemon's, and 2026 will be Zelda's. Even if you can't stand either of those titles, 10s of millions will not be able to resist.

Nintendo RN:
Happy Star Wars GIF
 
Some people might find value in the scaling of PC gaming with the ease of use of a console.

Given this is MS though, I highly expect them to fuck it up somehow.

I'm interested but I need to see what it brings to the table over PS6. PC like scaling is a massive W for me.
 
I'm not sure what this has to do with my response.
I double checked to see if I replied to right person, lol. You implied that no one asked MS to provide PC store integration into Consoles. Why would they do something no one asked for.

Most Xbox users may not ask for it, but it's the OEMs that want it.
Yep, basically suspend and launch between Xbox and PC modes. It would be a bit clunky but I am sure they will have something to hide that process.
Do you think Windows 11 does suspend and launch between running a Steam/Epic game vs an Xbox game? There's no need to do that. The windows kernel can handle multiple app models and environments simultaneously.

Also, take a guess how the full Desktop Edge Browser runs on consoles. It runs inside a container that limits it to 1080/60. And blocks all add-ons for security.
 
I'm genuinely curious to see how Microsoft plans to entice me to buy the next-generation Xbox.

At this point, I've drifted away from the Xbox ecosystem, but I'd absolutely consider a console that doubles as a Steam machine. Something that lets me play my legacy Xbox purchases, access my Steam library, and dip into Game Pass when I feel like renewing.

My desktop PC already covers all my gaming needs, but having a second PC in a console form dedicated to my TV setup would be a welcome addition. Right now, my Steam Deck fills that role in a Switch-like way: handheld one day, docked TV console the next. I love that flexibility.

If Microsoft's next Xbox can deliver Steam support, full backwards compatibility, and the horsepower to run games at 4K, 60–120fps on ultra settings with ray tracing to the max regardless of game, I'm all in. I get that consoles are expensive these days, but if they can hit that level of performance around the $1,000 mark, it'd be an easy buy for me.

I'll still pick up a PS6, my library and long-term investment in that ecosystem make it a no-brainer. But there's definitely room for a new Xbox in my setup, as long as it brings meaningful value. With exclusives no longer a compelling draw from Microsoft, it'll need to win me over through versatility, performance, and integration with the platforms I already use.
 
The leak spec had 40 GBs of RAM in it right? How is that a PS5 Pro Pro?

the perfomance jump from that leaked spec from the base PS5 is smaller than the jump from Xbox One to One X.
this is also after the PS5 Pro being barely even a Pro console itself...

the only way the PS6 will be a substantial jump is if RDNA5 is truly revolutionary in ways we don't yet know.
 
the perfomance jump from that leaked spec from the base PS5 is smaller than the jump from Xbox One to One X.
this is also after the PS5 Pro being barely even a Pro console itself...

the only way the PS6 will be a substantial jump is if RDNA5 is truly revolutionary in ways we don't yet know.
It's spec is comparable with a 5080, expecting more when that's almost the top of the line is asking a bit much for a console.
 
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Not even Sony knows what price PS6 will be at the moment because we are dealing with too many changes in the industry & world at the moment but yes we are most likely going to end up in a situation where Xbox will be sold at a premium while PS6 try to stick to the old formula.

I don't think it will be too extreme though.
 
I double checked to see if I replied to right person, lol. You implied that no one asked MS to provide PC store integration into Consoles. Why would they do something no one asked for.

Most Xbox users may not ask for it, but it's the OEMs that want it.

Do you think Windows 11 does suspend and launch between running a Steam/Epic game vs an Xbox game? There's no need to do that. The windows kernel can handle multiple app models and environments simultaneously.

Also, take a guess how the full Desktop Edge Browser runs on consoles. It runs inside a container that limits it to 1080/60. And blocks all add-ons for security.
I am talking about technical issues here. I am perfectly familiar with them.

The main problem is going to licensing in a "console". To run actual Xbox games and not just PC games, MS will have to satisfy publisher agreements, hence why I think there will be separation.
 
Pretty much what I'm expecting. What people still don't get is that MS was right with the Series S model. Prices never came down. They called that in 2018 or 2019 when they were finalizing it. Sony is just now admitting it was correct.

MS is calling it now as well, prices are going to be high and subsidization can't keep it down like before. In that scenario you're closer to PC pricing but don't have all the features.
24/7 spin class must be exhausting
 
Do you think Windows 11 does suspend and launch between running a Steam/Epic game vs an Xbox game? There's no need to do that. The windows kernel can handle multiple app models and environments simultaneously.

Also, take a guess how the full Desktop Edge Browser runs on consoles. It runs inside a container that limits it to 1080/60. And blocks all add-ons for security.

Would you like to guess how quick resume works right now on series X?

My understanding is Microsoft has already solved the virtualization challenge on Xbox OS. The quick resume is basically a suspended VM snapshot stored to SSD. Load it back and the game had no idea it was ever suspended. Without virtualization already in place, all of this would be an absolute nightmare to manage. It's why Sony can never replicate the functionality. PS5 wasn't architected that way.

There is no need to reinvent the wheel and implement all that again in Windows 11. They would just have to extend the existing virtualization features to support a trimmed down, regular windows desktop environment so they can launch a PC game from its respective storefront.

Just guessing as I have no idea how they are actually implementing it. But there is nothing stopping them from taking the virtualization route to achieve their goal for the console. You get the best of both worlds with a secure, closed console that can also play PC games.
 
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If Microsoft's next Xbox can deliver Steam support, full backwards compatibility, and the horsepower to run games at 4K, 60–120fps on ultra settings with ray tracing to the max regardless of game, I'm all in. I get that consoles are expensive these days, but if they can hit that level of performance around the $1,000 mark, it'd be an easy buy for me.

season 6 netflix GIF by Gilmore Girls
 
Its gonna cost $300 more than PS.

$100 extra to cover subsidy
$50 extra for larger soc and cooling
$150 profit.

Would be good product I say. Likely $800-$900.
 
If this is a subsidized box with 5080-tier performance for a 1000 bucks that can play your entire Steam library because it runs containerized Windows, it will be more popular than some might think. If it's "just another Xbox" nobody is going to pay a grand for this shit. I'm torn on whether this is going to happen. They're not going to run the full-blown Steam app on that thing, so they need a custom 10ft interface as a launcher/shell, which they are conveniently enough testing with the rebranded ROG Ally device. All signs point to them working on this, but what are Microsoft's expectations of the Ally X? Even if it's just a commercially-released test bed, chances are it might be seen as a flop internally if it doesn't sell well enough the coming year.

Also they will need to tune the marketing to this new... thing. Focused and crystal clear on its capabilities. If people don't understand it and it's "another way to play Xbox games" then who the fuck is going to buy it? If it really is a Xbox Steam Device, put that front and center.
 
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Its gonna cost $300 more than PS.

$100 extra to cover subsidy
$50 extra for larger soc and cooling
$150 profit.

Would be good product I say. Likely $800-$900.
Not sure about the profit number there, but I think the overall price difference will shake out about that. Not double as is being talked about. Also not at the start of 2027 either, it will launch in the same 1/2 year, possibly the same 1/4 as the PS6. Assuming that matters if its not really competing anyway.

Also not convinced you can summarise the price differences down to your headings either. Quite possible the BOM is impacted by more than just the SOC/cooling. Things like potentially different memory/storage specs or accessories come to mind.

One possible big advantage to my mind with the new Xbox is you will likely get full or close to full value from the hardware upgrade without having to wait for devs to target it specifically. Just not sure all the negatives around having to deal with a machine that requires active management will be worth it. Consoles in my household are used by everyone, and the last thing I want is to have to tech support a console....
 
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One possible big advantage to my mind with the new Xbox is you will likely get full or close to full value from the hardware upgrade without having to wait for devs to target it specifically. Just not sure all the negatives around having to deal with a machine that requires active management will be worth it. Consoles in my household are used by everyone, and the last thing I want is to have to tech support a console....
These things need to be clarified, I imagine there could be some restrictions on what you can do, in exchange for more console like experience?

Devs can put Xbox magnus profile in games that automatically load when game detects the hardware, something like that.
 
Why not? All there games are on PC so they have developers use to making games for higher end specs. Ive always liked the idea of Pro models.

As long as there expectations are normal and they are making a weaker console or a 3rd party is then its fine.

If there not releasing a weaker Sku then it means they are losing out on some of their userbase.

If so, maybe they are will be doing it on purpose to move them to windows/PC like consoles made by 3rd party. Idk
 
I am talking about technical issues here. I am perfectly familiar with them.

The main problem is going to licensing in a "console". To run actual Xbox games and not just PC games, MS will have to satisfy publisher agreements, hence why I think there will be separation.
I highly doubt MS will do anything remotely close to dual booting though. Publishers don't get to decide which OS MS runs on Xbox consoles, as long as the device is Xbox branded and locked down to prevent piracy. MS has the ability to run full Windows 12 Home OS, then lock it down similar to S-mode, remove desktop mode, and load up the Xbox OS Shell while still retaining access to other PC stores.

They will only be running one primary OS, they may run multiple subsystems, like loading Xbox OS as a subsystem if needed. But, it will all be as seamless as things already existing on Windows PCs.
Would you like to guess how quick resume works right now on series X?

My understanding is Microsoft has already solved the virtualization challenge on Xbox OS. The quick resume is basically a suspended VM snapshot stored to SSD. Load it back and the game had no idea it was ever suspended. Without virtualization already in place, all of this would be an absolute nightmare to manage. It's why Sony can never replicate the functionality. PS5 wasn't architected that way.

There is no need to reinvent the wheel and implement all that again in Windows 11. They would just have to extend the existing virtualization features to support a trimmed down, regular windows desktop environment so they can launch a PC game from its respective storefront.

Just guessing as I have no idea how they are actually implementing it. But there is nothing stopping them from taking the virtualization route to achieve their goal for the console. You get the best of both worlds with a secure, closed console that can also play PC games.
Yes, all XDK, GDK, GDKX created games run in a Type 1 Hypervisor (low level VM). What would they be implementing in full windows when those exact mechanisms already exist for 6 years?

You seem to totally misunderstand my point. There is no need to virtualize full windows on a console, lol. Series Consoles already have the windows subsystem, aka the win32 app model environment. GDK and GDKX create MSIXVC packaged Win32 games that run inside the Type 1 hypervisor, on BOTH PCs and Consoles.

Desktop Edge browser on Consoles is a Win32 app. It is running inside a container (another low level VM without OS overhead). Consoles already can run win32 apps and games, PCs already run MSIXVC packaged PC Xbox games.

Simba, everything the GDK touches creates is an Xbox game. Xbox OS is technically just Windows GameCore OS, it is designed to be modular, MS can add or strip whatever is necessary for it. They don't need dual booting, virtualization, emulation, translation, or porting, in order to run PC games on consoles, or run console (One and Series) games on Xbox PC (with Magnus).

The Windows 11 NT kernel handles multiple types of programming APIs (Win32, WinRT), multiple types of app models and app environments (unpackaged Win32, UWP, MSIXVC packaged Win32 aka GDK), so adding XDK and GDKX games to the same kernel doesn't require separate OS, either virtualized or dual booted. The kernel can handle everything simultaneously and seamlessly, just like it currently happens on Windows 11 Home. MS only runs things in hypervisors or containers for security or abstraction and easy management.
These things need to be clarified, I imagine there could be some restrictions on what you can do, in exchange for more console like experience?

Devs can put Xbox magnus profile in games that automatically load when game detects the hardware, something like that.
Two restrictions are obvious, no Desktop mode and file system access on Consoles.

Magnus profiles in what games, Steam/Epic or Xbox games?
 
Two restrictions are obvious, no Desktop mode and file system access on Consoles.

Magnus profiles in what games, Steam/Epic or Xbox games?
Needs to be clarified.

But am assuming magnus will have apps for 3rd party stores. Just like they show up on xbox ally x. They will have magnus specific UI, possibly they will show if magnus profile is available or not, what settings to expect etc.
 
Its gonna cost $300 more than PS.

$100 extra to cover subsidy
$50 extra for larger soc and cooling
$150 profit.

Would be good product I say. Likely $800-$900.
$50 won't cover the hardware difference.
The GPU alone, if we compare costs of the 5070ti vs the 5080, that's $250.

Not an exact science but it gives you an idea, and that's before other things like cooling comes into play to support a larger GPU.
 
Marketshare is a different topic.

They made Xbox Series S because they predicted that systems wouldn't drop in price and they predicted that far in advance. The only way to drop the price was to do it up front. Has nothing to do with what sold. Its predicting the trends in hardware pricing for manufacturing.
You give way too much credit to Microsoft for any decisions they make, even the dumbass decisions. MS didn't predict that hardware pricing was going to increase in the way it's happened over the last few years. They just wanted to sandwich PlayStation with 2 skus. The enthusiasts machine and the cheaper machine for the casual gamer who doesn't pixel count or hang out on forums.
 
It should be more expensive because it will also be a PC and thus will also play PS5 games and everything else. That's not a problem as long as it works effectively as a console and they market it as both a console and gaming PC because it would technically be cheaper than buying both. Marketing this will be the hardest thing. If your average sees it as just a really expensive Xbox then who would buy that over a PS6.
 
Just as i said once we got to know official price of ps5pr0 being 700$/800€, ps6 coming in at 999(at least disc version, maybe digital only is at 800$ but not cheaper than that). Reasons:

Zen6 wont be cheaper than zen2( that launched in july 2019 so over 6 years ago), yet ps5pr0 that has zen2 cpu is at 750$/800€ now...
About gpu, brand new rdna5 archi on 3nm wont be cheaper from current rdna 2.0( modified but defo below rdna4) ps5pr0 gpu that is at best on pair with 380$ streetprice rx 9060xt.
We not gonna get smaller nor slower ssd either from what is already in ps5pr0, likely gonna be faster/more expensive, and bigger too since games only gonna grow in instal size.

So 800$ is base thats minimum we see proper ps6 at, likely gonna be more(with discdrive).

About new xbox- we dont even know what it actually gonna be but lets just say this, xbox branded rog ally thats launching in nov 2025 at 599(super weak version, barely above steamdeck) and 899 usd/euro(proper highend version, stronger from switch2 but who knows by how much? maybe at best 2x stronger, likely not even that).

Their stationary console/pc "hybrid" gonna be likely 1200usd+(we talking proper full/premium version that is generotional leap over xsx not some crazy budget xss equivalent thats similar/weaker from xsx in some aspects).

Reason for this all is very simple, and to not look far lets look at holidays 2020 launch xsx vs xss specs, 300 vs 500$ price so only 200$ difference and xss had less ram/vram, 3x weaker gpu and smaller ssd(slighly lower clock on cpu doesnt really matter much so i dont even count it in really).

Thats the compromises 200$ of value was worth back in 2020, do we really think sony gonna go xss route or go hard balls to the wall knowing new xbox gonna be powerful? Logically they will try to give most value but at 800$ at least, it just common sense, sony wont wanna lose their most hardcore crowd(that spends on gaming yearly over 1k usd) presenting some subpar budget weak af console...
 
Just as i said once we got to know official price of ps5pr0 being 700$/800€, ps6 coming in at 999(at least disc version, maybe digital only is at 800$ but not cheaper than that). Reasons:

Zen6 wont be cheaper than zen2( that launched in july 2019 so over 6 years ago), yet ps5pr0 that has zen2 cpu is at 750$/800€ now...
About gpu, brand new rdna5 archi on 3nm wont be cheaper from current rdna 2.0( modified but defo below rdna4) ps5pr0 gpu that is at best on pair with 380$ streetprice rx 9060xt.
We not gonna get smaller nor slower ssd either from what is already in ps5pr0, likely gonna be faster/more expensive, and bigger too since games only gonna grow in instal size.

So 800$ is base thats minimum we see proper ps6 at, likely gonna be more(with discdrive).

About new xbox- we dont even know what it actually gonna be but lets just say this, xbox branded rog ally thats launching in nov 2025 at 599(super weak version, barely above steamdeck) and 899 usd/euro(proper highend version, stronger from switch2 but who knows by how much? maybe at best 2x stronger, likely not even that).

Their stationary console/pc "hybrid" gonna be likely 1200usd+(we talking proper full/premium version that is generotional leap over xsx not some crazy budget xss equivalent thats similar/weaker from xsx in some aspects).

Reason for this all is very simple, and to not look far lets look at holidays 2020 launch xsx vs xss specs, 300 vs 500$ price so only 200$ difference and xss had less ram/vram, 3x weaker gpu and smaller ssd(slighly lower clock on cpu doesnt really matter much so i dont even count it in really).

Thats the compromises 200$ of value was worth back in 2020, do we really think sony gonna go xss route or go hard balls to the wall knowing new xbox gonna be powerful? Logically they will try to give most value but at 800$ at least, it just common sense, sony wont wanna lose their most hardcore crowd(that spends on gaming yearly over 1k usd) presenting some subpar budget weak af console...
You're taking as a reference a non-subsidised console (Pro) price to predict the one of the subsidised version (base). That's where your whole argument falls flat.
 
$50 won't cover the hardware difference.
The GPU alone, if we compare costs of the 5070ti vs the 5080, that's $250.

Not an exact science but it gives you an idea, and that's before other things like cooling comes into play to support a larger GPU.
At higher end, these jumps cost extra.

5060ti > 5070 > ti > 5080.

All of these offer same 30% jump, but cost difference is less at lower end. I expect in next gen, these would similarly be mid range cards.

SOC price difference tends to be smaller than msrp difference as well.

It will probably be higher than $50 but not by much.
 
You're taking as a reference a non-subsidised console (Pro) price to predict the one of the subsidised version (base). That's where your whole argument falls flat.
No consoles can be subsidised anymore coz of scalpers. Last subsidized console was ps4 from 2013 afaik and even that only lasted to may 2014 so 6 months?
 
MS wants OEMs to build most of the Xbox Ecosystem hardware for them. MS only builds the baseline that devs build for and sell it through their online website mostly. The OEMs are allowed to come up with a thriving ecosystem like they do for windows PCs or Xbox controllers, and then profit off that hardware.
Microsoft Surface team is in charge of hardware design now. They make higher end "halo" type devices to push the oems, they aren't targeting the low end/baseline of the market. Surface pc sales have been tanking over the years most it shops have experienced them and rejected.
 
As I've said they should just push a 4 year All Access plan.

Easy to do a $1000 console then. ~$40/mth for a high end console + Game Pass Ultimate.
 
This box is designed to turn a profit from minute 1, not to have widespread adoption and grow the brand.

This actually sounds like it could be the 1st decent HW business plan from Xbox in ages. Hope they invest in revising the controller tho, that XB1/XS design is growing stale.
 
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