MaddenNFL64
Member
Made a dude cry because shirt. These ultra feminists are pissing everyone off at this point.
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'Shirtstorm' Leads To Apology From European Space Scientist
- Thread starter richiek
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Made a dude cry because shirt. These ultra feminists are pissing everyone off at this point.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Why do you paint this 1984 sort of vibe over basic manners like that?
It's not even a demand. It says "try not to" at the start.
Kano on the Phone
Member
Your logic is the same as a child who gets grounded for breaking a window with a baseball and says "I guess I'll just never do anything fun ever again!"
One dude has to apologize for something and a thousand others are clamoring all over each other to climb up on a cross.
Are people just assuming some super ninja feminists are behind everything they dislike these days?
You know who watched that stream? Women in STEM. You know who started the criticism? Women in STEM. This was not some outside group acting this were his peers who did not like his behaviour.
Kony 2012! We almost had him. Only 2000 more facebook likes
I think we really just want people to be able to constructively accept criticism in regards to their behaviours.
I've never heard of Ultra Feminism. Are they more or less feminist than, say, radical feminists?
Because any constriction on personal freedoms is the death knell of society!
*picture of a crying eagle overlayed on an American flag*
I agree. The way that people presenting a critical view of an example of a larger social phenomenon were harassed and threatened by regressive adherents to the patriarchy is really just sad.
Dice//
Banned
One generalization for another: It must be great living in a man's world.
That's it! We must wear neutral tones, and long t-shirts with no silly gimmickry on them. Pants hemmed to around the ankle. No flashy colours either. Posters and magazines of nature should only be permitted as well.
C'mon, it's not like that.
MaddenNFL64
Member
Doesn't make the dogpile this guy went through justified. Turning a tacky shirt that miffed some people into a public shaming was fucking absurd. This shit pissed me off.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I apologize on his behalf for having engaged with someone like you who has abandoned any attempts at participating in this thread with any good faith.
Dice//
Banned
Doubt many of us would disagree there.
No one is justifying bullying or shaming him. People will react to situations they feel strongly about in a myriad of ways, some inappropriate, but their reactions do not make what's being discussed invisible.
Not every single word aimed at Matt Taylor was deserved no.
You know where things got really absurd? When people started threatening the scientists who disagrees with Mr. Taylor's fashion sense with murder and rape.
Dice//
Banned
A lot of Gaffers don't agree with public shaming he received and a lot of us appreciate the news that unfolded after the event (like the apology or disapproving of more indignant and direct anger towards him despite the apology).
Again, the reason this topic has gone on as long as it has is because of surround contexts of gender and sciences, and not at all (or directly) about Matt Taylor himself.
We obviously can't speak for other social media "out there", but the opinion on Gaf has attemped a reasonable debate about the subject, even (funny enough) "shaming" or disagreeing with that lady STEM scientist who tweeted how the event was "RUINED" for her because of said shirt.
See: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=139041184&postcount=1291
Yes, cause that is totally what it was. Twitter and clickbait articles gonna fix the world any day now.
Are you saying he deserved it because of what he was wearing?
Please, be a troll, please be a troll... if someone seriously believed that shirt attacked half the world then ... I can't, I simply can't....
A Link to the Past
Banned
This is a tone argument, though. I think we can all agree that civil discussion is ideal, and trying to derail it by pointing out tone isn't helpful. Tone arguments become valuable mostly when it's in relation to when his supporters, or people trying to stir shit, are getting violent towards his critics (regardless of their tone).
If "it" means the explosive outrage that resulted, then kind of? In an ideal world "explosive" wouldn't be an appropriate word to use as an adjective here, but he chose to wear a shirt that distracted from the subject at hand. Further, more than ever before, shirts are methods of communication, and I'm sure someone with his level of intelligence should have understood that the shirt would bother some people.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Double post
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
Hmm. I think the shirt is OK. People are reading way too much into it. He also apologized already, so we should be able to move past this by now.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Well now, the debate is more about the fact that people have gotten really GG about what happened, and that people claim there was no merit to being offended by the shirt in the first place.
Yes, it was critical discourse.
Dice//
Banned
We know that part... It's a big topic, but we kinda hit 'new corners' of debate.
The problem is that the important question of "How do we encourage more women to pursue careers in math/science" got lost in the outrage and became about Matt Taylor and his decision to wear a shirt that offended some people. I think all sides should've handled things better.
You almost got that right:
Matt Taylor and his decision to wear a shirt that offended some people became about the important question of "How do we encourage more women to pursue careers in math/science"
For some that's true. But from reading this thread, it seems most people are still arguing about the shirt.
Herpes Reasons
Banned
Ahhh so he deserved the outcome because of what he wore. I wonder what you'd say if I changed HE to SHE. I have a feeling the response would be different.
Holy hyperbole, batman.
Everyone here believes in real gender equality but comeon, this is ridiculous. His shirt wasn't sexist, it was just an ugly, terrible fucking shirt.
A Link to the Past
Banned
With respect, I don't respond to shitty, bad faith arguments. Seeya.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
If you're trying to bring rape into this discussion then you're just as disgusting and pathetic as the people who tried to bring domestic violence and Ray Rice into it.
I think I've had about enough of this madness. The combative nature of this thread has reached levels that are disturbing to me and the interjections of highly charged and inflammatory topics is too much.
Feel sorry for the guy. The shirt was controversial/outlandish sure, but it speaks of a culture that resonates with many males and females alike. We might as well lump everybody who plays Bayonetta in the same group and scream at them.
What saddens me a bit is that his actual work with Rosetta got undermined and the guy was made to apologize during which he started crying. I wouldn't be surprised if this dampens his enthusiasm for carrying into the future the same passions for science and astronomical achievements he enjoyed before the drama.
What saddens me a bit is that his actual work with Rosetta got undermined and the guy was made to apologize during which he started crying. I wouldn't be surprised if this dampens his enthusiasm for carrying into the future the same passions for science and astronomical achievements he enjoyed before the drama.
dead souls
Member
Of course it still would be. The point you're trying to make is totally irrelevant.
A lot of men in here who don't understand what it is like to be marginalized in multiple industries because gender based culture permeates throughout them. This specific shirt isn't the biggest part of how women are represented and treated in STEM fields, but it does serve to reinforce the idea of it being a boys club. Every little thing like this adds up, especially when it is public facing like this and especially during a huge scientific milestone.
The fact it didn't cross this guys mind that the shirt would be offensive before he was called out on it goes to show you the kind of environment he works in. A lot of businesses, those with a little better gender balance, would consider that shirt sexual harassment. And just because the source of the shirt is a female doesn't change anything. Its basically the "a lot of my friends are black" excuse before opening with a racist comment.
And complaining that we're not talking about the actual comet landing is basic deflection. There is plenty of news coverage and excitement over the landing but people can handle more then one topic at a time. In fact, most people cannot do anything with the news of the comet landing, but as a culture we have to work on issues with sexism in STEM fields (among other areas). It isn't something that can be ignored and it is something we should be bringing up when it happens.
The fact that he apologized, and did so meaningfully is very important. The fact so many people want to play this off as being overblown or just social justice warrior whining is incredibly depressing. Especially with how a number of posters doing so have 'Engineer' in their GAF profile.
The fact it didn't cross this guys mind that the shirt would be offensive before he was called out on it goes to show you the kind of environment he works in. A lot of businesses, those with a little better gender balance, would consider that shirt sexual harassment. And just because the source of the shirt is a female doesn't change anything. Its basically the "a lot of my friends are black" excuse before opening with a racist comment.
And complaining that we're not talking about the actual comet landing is basic deflection. There is plenty of news coverage and excitement over the landing but people can handle more then one topic at a time. In fact, most people cannot do anything with the news of the comet landing, but as a culture we have to work on issues with sexism in STEM fields (among other areas). It isn't something that can be ignored and it is something we should be bringing up when it happens.
The fact that he apologized, and did so meaningfully is very important. The fact so many people want to play this off as being overblown or just social justice warrior whining is incredibly depressing. Especially with how a number of posters doing so have 'Engineer' in their GAF profile.
Dice//
Banned
Speculation. Try harder.
Why even...??? What? Try again.
This topic moved on from talked about Matt Taylor to other gender issues. The people here don't shun or hate Matt Taylor besides an initial poor choice in clothes for international television, but the debate is passed that (besides moments where we've had to bring up "the shirt" because someone else brought up "the shirt".
Please read what I wrote here since I"ve been posting here for a while:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=139049902&postcount=1370
Yeah, this is a good post to quote and leave with
I agree and I'm out. Attempts to rationalize discussion and debate keep going back to #shirtgate because people don't want to read the rest that was talked about (i.e.; a lot of other stuff other than Matt Taylor) --- then it just loops are repeats. What's the point, people got their opinions, agree to disagree.
If you don't allow humanity and compassion into your judgments, you're not going to win anybody over to your side.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Satire of the silliness that is #GamerGate.
Dice//
Banned
haha I meant nothing serious by it, I hate that ____gate thing, I just kinda....I dunno, ran out of good words.
What if my judgment is based on humanity and compassion?
But it's not funny. The fact that I can't go one hour without seeing that stupid hashtag when referencing a toxic movement (be it for or against) is working up my last nerve that I'd probably go so far as to kill myself.
Feel free to argue that. For you this issue seems to black and white.Some of us see it in shades of gray. Both are opinions, and I will agree to respect yours.
OK. I will just say that you can respect an opinion and challenge it at the same time.
"Guys what if the context was... completely different!"
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