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Skullgirls |OT| New age of Heroines

Ravidrath

Member
Stick is back!
https://twitter.com/Skullgirls/status/238436229358686208

The tweets narcing out the guy were deleted from Twitter. Probably a good idea to edit them out from the internet.

Not everyone thought we should delete them, but since things were resolved, I felt it was the right thing to do.


Well that pretty much wraps up SG's string of bad luck (pretty much stick + patch shenanigans) since Evo I suppose. A happy ending for everyone.

Yeah, uh... let's not get ahead of ourselves.
 

alstein

Member
Probably too late to delete the tweets - folks saved them and know who the guy is. I doubt he'll be allowed back at Evo (and he shouldn't). Lifetime ban from majors is appropriate for stick thieves- but hard to enforce.

Suggestion: I'd be trying to take advantage of the Persona fiasco by trying to be "big in Europe"- you guys should be the Jerry Lewis of fighting games.

PC release might help.
 

mr. puppy

Banned
goddamn this game is dead. who cares about the patch.....unless you all start releasing new characters or just freaking anything to get hype going, its going to fall out really soon
 

Galdelico

Member
goddamn this game is dead. who cares about the patch.....unless you all start releasing new characters or just freaking anything to get hype going, its going to fall out really soon
Must say I'm starting to feel the same by now.
I mean, I love Skullgirls but in a few weeks it will be fighting games galore again: Tekken Tag Tournament 2, Dead or Alive 5, Marvel vs CAPCOM Origins... This patch took so long (and it's not even out yet or has a clear release date) and it looks like - again, right now - it will do little to nothing in order to bring back most of the people to play the game. There won't be new characters, new storylines, not even my long awaited art gallery (so sad to see that 'coming soon' which probably means 'never gonna happen' now... U_U).

Maybe the guys at Reverge should really consider the option of just switching to a proper Ultimate edition with actual 'new' playable contents... I'll download the patch and keep playing the game anyway, just feeling a bit disappointed by the massive delay and the consequent community's loss of interest.
 

shaowebb

Member
Must say I'm starting to feel the same by now.
I mean, I love Skullgirls but in a few weeks it will be fighting games galore again: Tekken Tag Tournament 2, Dead or Alive 5, Marvel vs CAPCOM Origins... This patch took so long (and it's not even out yet or has a clear release date) and it looks like - again, right now - it will do little to nothing in order to bring back most of the people to play the game. There won't be new characters, new storylines, not even my long awaited art gallery (so sad to see that 'coming soon' which probably means 'never gonna happen' now... U_U).

Maybe the guys at Reverge should really consider the option of just switching to a proper Ultimate edition with actual 'new' playable contents... I'll download the patch and keep playing the game anyway, just feeling a bit disappointed by the massive delay and the consequent community's loss of interest.

If it means anything my top priority if I ever win the lottery is to throw the cash into this studio. I believe in their product and dedication. I strongly feel with more crew and more support they could really set standards in the industry. Too bad the odds of winning the lotto are ridiculously bad.

I'm still hoping for Konami to look at Reverge and revive their long dead ambition to create a fighting game franchise as a tie in to the Castlevania series. Judgment was terrible and they chose the wrong artist to revision those characters IMO. Reverge + Castlevania=GODLY. Plus it'd mean enough money to finally do the full console release with everything they wanted for Skullgirls eventually.

Were you guys serious during the patch stream that ended with the happy yell of "Poop!" when you said all it would take for you to finish skullgirls the way you want it is $1million? Thats ridiculously cheap for a game these days so I was wondering how serious you were on that statement.
 

Galdelico

Member
If it means anything my top priority if I ever win the lottery is to throw the cash into this studio. I believe in their product and dedication.
That's out of question. Skullgirls has been something truly revolutionary and awesome for me, and I love the game (I bought it on both PS3 and 360).

Just feeling a little bit depressed by the whole 'slowing down' of the project... If I could, trust me that I would happily give them dat million, right now on their hands. :D
 

Ravidrath

Member
That's out of question. Skullgirls has been something truly revolutionary and awesome for me, and I love the game (I bought it on both PS3 and 360).

Just feeling a little bit depressed by the whole 'slowing down' of the project... If I could, trust me that I would happily give them dat million, right now on their hands. :D

I assure you that we feel your disappointment, too. Nothing on this project has ever been easy, and it's not so much that it's hard that it's all slow and out of our control.

Despite these delays, Autumn is still committed to the game. So all I can really do at this point is urge continued patience.

Things should be clearer in a few weeks, I think.
 

Galdelico

Member
Despite these delays, Autumn is still committed to the game.
At the end of the day, that's the most important thing.

Maybe it couldn't even be an option, since you have a proper publisher and all, but did you ever think about Kickstarter, in order to fund your future Skullgirls' revisions and/or other projects?
 

Raging Spaniard

If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
If it means anything my top priority if I ever win the lottery is to throw the cash into this studio. I believe in their product and dedication. I strongly feel with more crew and more support they could really set standards in the industry. Too bad the odds of winning the lotto are ridiculously bad.

I'm still hoping for Konami to look at Reverge and revive their long dead ambition to create a fighting game franchise as a tie in to the Castlevania series. Judgment was terrible and they chose the wrong artist to revision those characters IMO. Reverge + Castlevania=GODLY. Plus it'd mean enough money to finally do the full console release with everything they wanted for Skullgirls eventually.

Were you guys serious during the patch stream that ended with the happy yell of "Poop!" when you said all it would take for you to finish skullgirls the way you want it is $1million? Thats ridiculously cheap for a game these days so I was wondering how serious you were on that statement.

lol Konami ... I wouldnt trust those guys with my laundry. Kojipro is the only exception.
 

Ravidrath

Member
At the end of the day, that's the most important thing.

Maybe it couldn't even be an option, since you have a proper publisher and all, but did you ever think about Kickstarter, in order to fund your future Skullgirls' revisions and/or other projects?

It's been discussed, but the general consensus is that there would be extreme sticker shock and we'd never get funded. 2D animation is expensive!

That whole wave seems to be in decline, too - if Mercenary Kings had that hard of a time getting $75k for a full game, I don't think there's any way we could get the $200k+ a character costs to make.
 
Anybody still playing this game? I log on every other day for 15-20 minutes to practice alone since GAF never really picked the game up. We need to play because OTs with no game sessions going on just get depressing.

Please convince the higher ups to sell characters in pairs, Rav
It's been discussed, but the general consensus is that there would be extreme sticker shock and we'd never get funded. 2D animation is expensive!

That whole wave seems to be in decline, too - if Mercenary Kings had that hard of a time getting $75k for a full game, I don't think there's any way we could get the $200k+ a character costs to make.
I pledged $15 for Mercenary Kings yesterday. It's a sick little game. I just wish they would have gotten $175k for that four player online co-op.
 

Tobe

Member
Anybody still playing this game? I log on every other day for 15-20 minutes to practice alone since GAF never really picked the game up. We need to play because OTs with no game sessions going on just get depressing.

Please convince the higher ups to sell characters in pairs, Rav

I pledged $15 for Mercenary Kings yesterday. It's a sick little game. I just wish they would have gotten $175k for that four player online co-op.

havent played it in a while, i can hop on any time tho. [then it comes to if its playable cause of lag issues :( ]
 

Galdelico

Member
Watching it now... Peacock's changes look neat!

It's been discussed, but the general consensus is that there would be extreme sticker shock and we'd never get funded. 2D animation is expensive!

That whole wave seems to be in decline, too - if Mercenary Kings had that hard of a time getting $75k for a full game, I don't think there's any way we could get the $200k+ a character costs to make.

Yeah, I totally get it. My naive side, tho, still wants to believe that - judging from what you delivered, in terms of 2D animations - people would happily throw tons of money at you. :)
 
Looks like the thread hasn't been active in a while...

Anyways... I ordered a Canvas wrap from the Skullgirls website and it's pretty awesome. The first one came out wrong(horizontal), but the second one they sent turned out perfect. I love the quality of the canvas and colors. It's pretty awesome to look at. I gave the first one to my cousin and he loved it. I also ordered one of the back to school t-shirts(blue) for the hell of it and it's also pretty good. Never ordered merchandise before, but I decided that the shirt would be the perfect item to get for the free shipping. I totally recommend the store for anyone who has been wanting to buy something Skullgirls related. My cousin is probably going to get one of those canvas wraps for the Filia poster.

Image:
DSCN0010_zps45148346.jpg

Oh, and I played Skullgirls for the first time on an ASUS VW246H I got a week ago and the game looks absolutely gorgeous. I didn't think I'd get such an improvement compared to my old 42" LCD. Everything except the black levels is damn near perfect as far as I can tell. Still playing the game on the PS3 if anyone is interested. My bro got the Xbox over a week ago so I'm a single console person now.
 
How did you set it up on the customization screen?
like this?

You have to pick a solid color to slide underneath. The colors should be on the lowest part of the art you can pick(clearly I went with black). I think they won't know what color wrap to use if you don't pick it. I also avoided streching the black all the way past the wrap boundaries. The image above is what I sent to mashon support to show them that I wanted my vertical canvas and not a horizontal one like the one below.

I think that confused the computers on my first order which resulted in this(which I gave to my cousin):


I don't know what would happen if you make the image(the main parasoul poster) go past that red border(the small red border under the grey boundary), but I'm pretty sure that I kept the whole image inside the red just to be safe.

Edit:
Made one quick as an example. I made sure to keep the image within the red border so I wouldn't lose any of the type in the Parasoul image on the top or bottom.
 

Galdelico

Member
Oh, and I played Skullgirls for the first time on an ASUS VW246H I got a week ago and the game looks absolutely gorgeous. I didn't think I'd get such an improvement compared to my old 42" LCD. Everything except the black levels is damn near perfect as far as I can tell.
Got the same monitor a couple of years ago and, yeah, I'm still totally pleased but its quality.
Also, I agree about Skullgirls looking especially vibrant and stunning on that screen.
 

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
thanks for your help, but it seems they only ship to the states anyway. -.-

i saw state/province in the shipping address option and assumed canada was a shipping option, guess not. :(

they do have an 'armed forces canada' option though, lol.
 

Ravidrath

Member
It's cool to see people digging the store and making stuff with it!

Also, since it's being discussed... the MashOn store will have an exclusive, limited-edition Halloween shirt on October 1st. Alex's design for it is really fantastic - I think people are going to flip when they see it.

...And we're still working on the patch, of course.

Most of the programming and tech bugs seem to be out of the way now, so I'm mostly cleaning up localization bugs now that Konami's beating on the FIGS versions. There are lot of those, since we added all-new character tutorials and completely relocalized the FIGS tutorials so they aren't unfollowable gibberish any more.

Also, I can't announce it officially who it is yet, but... a contract with a Japanese publisher was finalized this week!

thanks for your help, but it seems they only ship to the states anyway. -.-

i saw state/province in the shipping address option and assumed canada was a shipping option, guess not. :(

they do have an 'armed forces canada' option though, lol.

There is a way to ship to Canada through a service called Borderlinx, but I think it might be an additional charge. There should be instructions on how to set all of that up in the FAQ on the site.
 

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
There is a way to ship to Canada through a service called Borderlinx, but I think it might be an additional charge. There should be instructions on how to set all of that up in the FAQ on the site.
Thank you for your interest in Borderlinx. In order to start using this service you, please pay 27.31 USD.
 
Hey, thanks for the update Ravid. SG expanding its influence to other regions is undoubtedly great news. It'd be pretty surreal seeing the game eventually played in Japanese arcades, kind of an exciting prospect to see what kind of crazy tech those guys would come up with. Patch or no patch I'm still having a ton of fun with the game though, really it's sort of become my definitive fighter of 2012.

Here's hoping increased sales go to expanding the game's DLC possibilities~
 
Got the same monitor a couple of years ago and, yeah, I'm still totally pleased but its quality.
Also, I agree about Skullgirls looking especially vibrant and stunning on that screen.
Skullgirls is like the planet Earth of fighting games. I tried Mahvel, BlazBlue and Persona, but none of them look quiet as good as Skullgirls does on this monitor. Story mode in particular has absolutely gorgeous colors. I'm gonna have to play the whole game again just to appreciate the art.

So... what settings are you using for yours? Maybe there are even better settings than mine.

Mine:
Scenery mode
Brightness 90
Contrast 80
Saturation 57
Color temp R82 G77 B78
Skin tone Natural
Smart view off

Sharpness 45
Trace free 100(I have absolutely no idea what this does)
Aspect control Full
ASCR off

It really doesn't get much better than this. I'm definitely looking forward to some sessions with friends in the future using this monitor.
thanks for your help, but it seems they only ship to the states anyway. -.-

i saw state/province in the shipping address option and assumed canada was a shipping option, guess not. :(

they do have an 'armed forces canada' option though, lol.
Such a shame.
 

shaowebb

Member
Also, I can't announce it officially who it is yet, but... a contract with a Japanese publisher was finalized this week!

YES. God I hope this means you guys get to keep putting work in on this game and eventually build the full retail disc version with all the cast you originally dreamed making it into the series someday.

Does it look like things are going to build up towards this with the new publisher? Just what can we reasonably expect as possibilities from Reverge and this game in the future with this news? Will the studio be expanding its staff once this deal is announced?
 

Raging Spaniard

If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
You all still haven't finished the freaking patch yet? Well, indie developers gotta indie :\

You people get spoiled by mega corporations with all of the money and forget how these things actually work sometimes ;)
 
Anyone here still playing the game? I wouldn't mind doing a ft15. It doesn't have to mean anything. I just like having a specific number to stop at.

Edit: I see the store's customization features have also been upgraded and the new Peacock shirt is out.
 

Ravidrath

Member
You all still haven't finished the freaking patch yet? Well, indie developers gotta indie :\

It's nearly complete - bug testing/fixing with Konami should be ending any day now, and then it'll be submitted to MS/Sony. If all goes well there, I think it should be out in around 2 weeks.


Whatever happened to Skull Girls coming out on Steam?

It's still being worked on, but has been delayed for the same reasons the patch was.

We're hoping to get it out this year, but we can't promise anything... we're always running into unforeseen circumstances, some of which will be made clear when the patch hits.


And, yes, the Halloween T-Shirt is out!

Here's the (awesome) art Alex whipped up for it:

58707_414975791903254_1319791581_n.jpg
 

shaowebb

Member
It's nearly complete - bug testing/fixing with Konami should be ending any day now, and then it'll be submitted to MS/Sony. If all goes well there, I think it should be out in around 2 weeks.




It's still being worked on, but has been delayed for the same reasons the patch was.

We're hoping to get it out this year, but we can't promise anything... we're always running into unforeseen circumstances, some of which will be made clear when the patch hits.


And, yes, the Halloween T-Shirt is out!

Here's the (awesome) art Alex whipped up for it:

58707_414975791903254_1319791581_n.jpg
Is that I-no's hat from Guilty Gear?
 

Ravidrath

Member
no, a guy who is in control of the dev team and can't make up his mind about patcing =/=big corporations pushing things out

Sorry you're frustrated, but I would strongly recommend against speculating about what the cause of the delays are until the patch is out.
 
Anyone here still playing the game? I wouldn't mind doing a ft15. It doesn't have to mean anything. I just like having a specific number to stop at.

Edit: I see the store's customization features have also been upgraded and the new Peacock shirt is out.

Yeah man, if you're on PSN absolutely hit me up. I'm still thoroughly enjoying the pre-patched game at the moment.

PSN is DiscoShark
 
Yeah man, if you're on PSN absolutely hit me up. I'm still thoroughly enjoying the pre-patched game at the moment.

PSN is DiscoShark
I'll add you. Just post here if you ever want some matches. I barely answer my messages because PSN notifications are practically invisible compared to the ones on the 360.
 
Sounds good, when are you available? Im pretty much free for the rest of the afternoon.
My apologies for my terrible performance. You are the first human opponent I've fought in months on this game. TBH I didn't expect to run into anyone that good on GAF. All I could do was block the mixups to the best of my ability. Man... Mahvel 3 is like a baby game compared to Skullgirls. This game would be absolutely unforgiving if there were no unblockable protection.
 

shaowebb

Member
My apologies for my terrible performance. You are the first human opponent I've fought in months on this game. TBH I didn't expect to run into anyone that good on GAF. All I could do was block the mixups to the best of my ability. Man... Mahvel 3 is like a baby game compared to Skullgirls. This game would be absolutely unforgiving if there were no unblockable protection.

The very notion of unblockables in Skullgirls terrifies me given the custom assist option. I still love playing Peacock/Valentine BTW. I don't have live anymore though. I'm cutting all expenses in anticipation of moving soon.

I love Peacock's character, but to be honest its Valentine whose moveset really sings to me. Them bottles and her air projectiles feel so good to me during combos and footsies that I just love playing as her. Super fun character IMO.
 
My apologies for my terrible performance. You are the first human opponent I've fought in months on this game. TBH I didn't expect to run into anyone that good on GAF. All I could do was block the mixups to the best of my ability. Man... Mahvel 3 is like a baby game compared to Skullgirls. This game would be absolutely unforgiving if there were no unblockable protection.

No need for apologies, you had a pretty firm grasp on the fundamentals of both Parasoul and Peacock and your pressure game with Parasoul in particular was actually really solid stuff. Really all that remains is some touching up on the finer points of what you can and can't do in this game and you'll be golden.

Universal Options :
Alpha Counter Alpha Counter Alpha Counter.
This mechanic in Skullgirls is VERY useful and one you're going to want to make use of often if your opponent is adept at keeping the pressure up while you play. Parasoul in particular has a fantastic alpha counter with her Napalm Pillar assist and it can be made (nearly) safe with spending a second meter for her motorcycles.

The ability to combine special moves + assists.
This is something MikeZ touched up on when he was doing a bunch of the walkthroughs for the game and it's criminally under utilized in the current state of the game. The point is this, you can actually use a special move input combined with an assist call on the same frame to be able to utilize both at the same time. Examples of this would be with say Filia Hairball + Double assist. Since Filia doesn't have any Quarter circle back moves with Punch I know that her hairball (QCB+Kick)is going to take priority over whatever motion I use + assist call (which uses a punch and a kick). So I do something like QCB + (LP+MK), this makes Filia simultaneously MK Hairball and call out Double assist to make it safe afterwards. Needless to say something like this can really revolutionize block string creation and can make safer your reversal attempts (Dragon-Punch like special move + pressure assist call for example).


Parasoul :
It goes without saying that the HPx2 -> LP Napalm Shot gives a pretty large window for someone to reversal out. It's no where near a true block string. Unfortunately because we lack the new training mode I can't tell you with 100% certainty what you could do instead but I think you have a couple alternatives.
  • HPx2 -> MP Napalm Shot has, in my experiences, been much more difficult to reversal out of.
  • HPx2 -> Rapid Cancel Soldier call to immediately cancel the lag of your move and either bait out a reversal attempt or continue pressure outright. It's worth noting that it may also be useful for baiting out an alpha counter attempt and punishing your opponent afterwards.
  • HPx1 -> One of the aforementioned options. This is really to just make it less predictable for your opponent for when to attempt to reversal. Not doing the full HP chain or cancelling it earlier at any other part of your block string is a VERY solid way of keeping your opponent on your toes. Relying on HPx2 in every situation is just asking to get Alpha Countered every single time.
Just know that ending your block string with any Napalm shot leaves you at a slight disadvantage so going into any sort of attacks after a blocked napalm at close range means you're going to get beaten out if you haven't combined it with an assist.


Peacock :
She's the kind of character that really evolves the more you learn to grasp the different aspects of her tool set, to be a competent Peacock is to be able to know when and where to use different escape or momentum breaking options you have available to you. It's very easy to get into a sort of comfortable complete keepaway mentality with Peacock and this can be a dangerous thing. A great Peacock knows how to make use of options that put her on the offensive at times to beat their opponent.

In this case I would say the biggest single thing you're simply missing out on is her fake teleport (Teleport motion + punch). This thing is KING at momentum shifting as it gives you ample time afterwards to combo or otherwise force your opponent to block and you're going to want to use it at a point where your opponent is all but on top of you.

Aside from defensive options though Peacock has a lot of tools to keep her opponent out of the area where her projectiles don't actually reach. She has, oddly enough, probably some of the best air normals in the game and I've put into more than one situation where a Peacock player has simply shut down my Filia's air options. A combination of j.HP, j.MP, j.HK, and AIR THROW (use this more)make up a pretty large portion of the framework for her air defense but it really feels like the character has distinct uses of ALL of her air normals. I've seen recently j.LP used as a quick and high priority option to either trade or beat out my airdash offensives. An opponent is naturally going to try to take to the air in order to approach a Peacock out and a Peacock player is going to need to meet them there to discourage that option, requiring a shift to the offensive in order to do so.

Turning a habit into a legitimate strategy.
You jump a lot when cornered with Peacock, it's a natural instinct I think in terms of how the character is typically played but it can be turned into something distinctly momentum shifting if utilized correctly. Enter j.MK. This move is AMAZING for keeping a grounded opponent blocking and can be airdash cancelled into another j.MK to send yourself down to meet your now blocking opponent.

Instant Airdash cancel offense.
Just a quick aside, Peacock can do really fast and low to the ground overheads by jumping -> airdashing -> inputting normal attack before she gains positive momentum. Just yet another tool to keep your opponent on their toes.


And yeah! That's about it I think...
 

Riposte

Member
I'm pretty sure I've completely forgotten how to play this game while waiting for the patch, lol. So many fighting games this year.
 
I'm pretty sure I've completely forgotten how to play this game while waiting for the patch, lol. So many fighting games this year.

For me its been KOF and Skullgirls this year ... which basically means Skullgirls online entirely and KOF offline entirely. Was kinda interested in P4a but then the BlazBlue CP announcement happened. GG Aksys marketing.
 
Thanks for the critique a couple of posts up. I know I played better than last time, but I could have done more today. I've taken a lot of the stuff you said to heart and I am trying to apply it to my game.

Oh, and I have a good reason for falling apart a lot against Painwheel today. It's because... I got my elgato HD capture device a couple of days ago! I recorded some crappy 480p footage and the sound is really delayed while capturing which basically puts me in a SFxT sound vortex 24/7. I decided to capture 720p footage of us playing next. I promise two things. I will not upload our matches without permission and I'll warn you next time I want to record something. :p

The sound was also turned off for my matches which let me play better. I just have to figure out a way around the sound issue and this thing is perfect. Before you get mad... you were the person who convinced me to get it. Our last matches were so good that I felt the need to record them for future reference and maybe as a small way to provide footage for Skullgirls in these dark times. :p
 
Thanks for the critique a couple of posts up. I know I played better than last time, but I could have done more today. I've taken a lot of the stuff you said to heart and I am trying to apply it to my game.

Oh, and I have a good reason for falling apart a lot against Painwheel today. It's because... I got my elgato HD capture device a couple of days ago! I recorded some crappy 480p footage and the sound is really delayed while capturing which basically puts me in a SFxT sound vortex 24/7. I decided to capture 720p footage of us playing next. I promise two things. I will not upload our matches without permission and I'll warn you next time I want to record something. :p

The sound was also turned off for my matches which let me play better. I just have to figure out a way around the sound issue and this thing is perfect. Before you get mad... you were the person who convinced me to get it. Our last matches were so good that I felt the need to record them for future reference and maybe as a small way to provide footage for Skullgirls in these dark times. :p

By all means, you have my full permission to post whatever matches we play at any time. It'll definitely help me try to pick up on my own habits and attempt to correct them, so ultimate I see no downside.

And yeah, you played much more solidly today; You mixed up your Parasoul strings to the point where you were baiting out my attempted reversals and punishing them effectively and your Peacock's keepaway in combination with your use of Parasoul assist worked out VERY well. I also liked seeing you really getting in the air and using more of Peacock's air normals effectively. Really I just have some very small notes that I think could go into further improving your game.

Parasoul :
Overheads. She has two of them and they're very quick things to just throw in the middle of your combos for easy resets into more damage.

Peacock :
If you can use Parasoul assist to get your opponent to block you may be able to sneak a teleport to the other side before they notice. You want to avoid ever being cornered as this character because she'll inevitably break in those situations. Fake teleport more, really, its awesome.

Matchup Quirks :
v. Painwheel
A competent Painwheel knows how to easily avoid George's Air Show and can bait out assist calls in order to find a safe window in. Your job is to disrupt the time in which she's looking for these safe opportunities and go on to the offensive before she can react. You HAVE to meet her in the air if you don't want to be a sitting duck against this character. That means avoiding your ground based zoning (which is more or less useless against Painwheel) and taking to the air in an offensive manner. J.MP and j.HP for Peacock are fantastic tools to deal with a Painwheel that's flying just outside of your range and a well placed j.HK can easily disrupt fly mode for Painwheel as well. AIR THROWING is also a very viable alternative and not something a painwheel is going to generally expect. Just keep them on their toes at all times.

This is a matchup where you can make use of LP Item Drop as well. It creates a "no fly zone" of sorts that you can use to delay a painwheel from getting into a range where you are not comfortable. HP Item Drop is not as useful in most situations because she can fly faster than the item can drop, further increasing the usefulness of LP item drop in this matchup. That said there is an exception in that if you have a Painwheel thats actively trying to bait out an assist call they're not going to be moving forward and that's where an HP Item Drop can be effective, charging an HP item drop wont get you very far however.
 
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