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[Yoshichan]

also holy fucking shit

Yoshichan dude...jesus dude. LOL. You actually made that, wow.

You need to disconnect your love of a franchise from perhaps the reality that it can be flawed. There is no perfect game, and some are far less perfect than others. First, who cares what others think. In the end your apparent slavish blind devotion to the franchise means you're not going to be objective anyway - you'll love it. So why do you care? And second, it's a game. It's good there is criticism going on. It can lead to real changes that make your franchise even better.

Haha, calm down! It was mostly for fun... mostly.

Also I somehow get the feeling that you think I'm part of those hardcore crazy Zelda-cult-people but I'm far, FAR away from that! In fact, I'm just a casual Zelda-fan that just wants a good Zelda game. I think LttP and OoT are one of the best games ever, but I was never truly a fan of WW and TP... so like, I just want a damn good game out of SS. This stupid 7.5 review is obviously not gonna change the end results of what I think of SS but it sure as hell will affect some peoples' purchases. I already know of two people that are now skipping SS just because of the 7.5, it doesn't matter how many times I link the EDGE, IGN or Eurogamer-review. It's shit like that that makes my blood boil, and that's the only moment I want to turn into Zelda-kamehameha-mode.

 

[Buddha Beam]

Wind Waker and Twilight Princess are both "flawed masterpieces." They both resort to filler too much. TP wins out in my opinion because it has the dungeons to compensate.

On a conceptual, artistic, and narrative level, WW kicks the shit out of TP. But in terms of offering a full Zelda experience, TP feels more "complete" and less rushed, even though it doesn't give the player enough to do with rupees (while relegating most secrets/side quests to rupee hunts) and includes its own fetch-quest like portion with the Tears of Light.

Man, I totally agree with everything you just said.

Wind Waker could have been the best Zelda ever had they not rushed it.

 

[apana]

Sometimes, you just got to rip on embarrassments to game design like Wind Waker. Just to break up the monotony of all the good things I say about games right now, like Rayman Origins or Saints Row 3(awesome games so far, btw).

 

[Version 3.0]

The single button item switching sounds like a bummer. Hopefully it works well (or well enough for me), but if not, I'll be counting on the code community to get those left/right dpad buttons working. They fixed Donkey Kong Country Returns, so they can fix this, too.

 

[jett]

People that defend Wind Waker probably forget that the game only has 5 proper dungeons. Now that's one fucking game that should have 20 points less on its metacritic score, at least. The miserable amount of dungeons the game has aren't even memorable. TP's Sky Temple > All of WW's dungeons put together.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Wind Waker will get a 10th Anniversary re-release for Wii U. Apart from being 'remastered' in HD/widescreen, and ideally a framerate upgrade to 60fps, that'll be it. Any tablet shenanigans would be limited to aiming and 'play it in bed!' mode.

Consider it called.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

People that defend Wind Waker probably forget that the game only has 5 proper dungeons. Now that's one fucking game that should have 20 points less on its metacritic score, at least. The miserable amount of dungeons the game has aren't even memorable. TP's Sky Temple > All of WW's dungeons put together.

City in the Sky was boring beyond the initial "oh cool!" look and took too long to redeem itself with an item that you should have had since the Lakebed Temple.

 

[Skiesofwonder]

Wind-Waker has the weekest dungeons indeed but makes up for it with awesome exploration, great side-quests, amazing artistic style, memorable characters, the best Zelda storyline, and the most epic moments of the series by far.

It's probably not the best Zelda, but it's my favorite by quite a margin.

 

[sprsk]

Mirror shield dungeon was like one of the best Zelda dungeons ever man wtf.

 

[apana]

Debatable. Each has its own strengths, but what's more interesting to me is how many of the same flaws they share.

Both Wind Waker and TP are great but incomplete, and their incompleteness makes me feel incomplete.

I'm waiting for Skyward Sword to end that empty feeling inside.

 

[Skiesofwonder]

Mirror shield dungeon was like one of the best Zelda dungeons ever man wtf.

You're crazy.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Wind Waker and Majora's Mask both have excellent worlds to explore with so much shit to do, whilst the dungeons are often par for the course, occasionally dipping into mediocre territory (and yes, sometimes rising above).

Twilight Princess has excellent dungeons, some of the series best easily, but shits the bed when it comes to a cool world with loads of secrets and exploration to be made.

Skyward Sword sounds like it may have fixed the problem where Nintendo haven't been able to have their cake and eat it since Ocarina of Time. Which is good, obviously.

 

[Branduil]

People that defend Wind Waker probably forget that the game only has 5 proper dungeons. Now that's one fucking game that should have 20 points less on its metacritic score, at least. The miserable amount of dungeons the game has aren't even memorable. TP's Sky Temple > All of WW's dungeons put together.

The dungeons in Wind Waker are certainly weaker than in the other 3D games. And the bosses as well. I don't know if the number matters as much, MM only has 4 proper dungeons but they're all great.

 

[jett]

Wind-Waker has the weekest dungeons indeed but makes up for it with awesome exploration, great side-quests, amazing artistic style, memorable characters, the best Zelda storyline, and the most epic moments of the series by far.

It's probably not the best Zelda, but it's my favorite by quite a margin.

What exploration? There's nothing to explore. What side quests? There's nothing to do in the game.

The only thing Wind Waker has is fantastic visuals.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Seriously, within like 8 hours of the review going up it was all over, and half of it was "don't care." The hell is that noise.

What exploration? There's nothing to explore. What side quests? There's nothing to do in the game.

The only thing Wind Waker has is fantastic visuals.

I'm playing WW right now, about to do the third dungeon, and about 50% of my time has been spent exploring and I've done well over a dozen sidequests.

 

[beef3483]

LOL @ the argument that one 7.5 somehow means more than a long list of 10s. And for every review that says the game is broken because of its controls I could show you two more reviews that say otherwise. I've even read a few reviews that have said they don't ever want to go back to button controls after this, but those people must have been bought off right? My guess, if you liked motion controls or can at least go in with an open mind and give them a chance, then you'll probably be happy with the controls in this one. And the opposite if you don't.

 

[Red]

The Great Sea was boring beyond the initial "oh cool!" look and took too long to redeem itself with time consuming wind mechanics and not being able to teleport until the end game.

 

[Biggest-Geek-Ever]

Seriously, within like 8 hours of the review going up it was all over, and half of it was "don't care." The hell is that noise.

The internet has developed thicker skin in the last 5 years. It'll be a boring day when Versus 13 is announced for the 360.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Windwaker was easily the shitiest Zelda game Nintendo has ever published.

- Shit dungeons
- Shit overworld
- Shit bosses
- Shit design

The whole game was one giant piece of shit.

At least Twilight Princess did some things right like awesome dungeons and bosses.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

The internet has developed thicker skin in the last 5 years. It'll be a boring day when Versus 13 is announced for the 360.

That's not thicker skin. The pizza grease has just hardened into an insect-like exoskeleton.

 

[Magicpaint]

What exploration? There's nothing to explore. What side quests? There's nothing to do in the game.

The only thing Wind Waker has is fantastic visuals.

There are numerous side quests in the Wind Fall Island alone. That said, the idea that WW is rich while TP is barren is ridiculous.

 

[Hot Coldman]

The Great Sea was boring beyond the initial "oh cool!" look and took too long to redeem itself with time consuming wind mechanics and not being able to teleport until the end game.

Eh? Your memory is hazy, friend You get the warp song after the third dungeon. Before then the game is funnelling you down a straight path anyway (which sucks).

 

[Red]

Eh? Your memory is hazy, friend You get the warp song after the third dungeon. Before then the game is funnelling you down a straight path anyway (which sucks).

Three dungeons is more than halfway through.

It's the final stretch.

 

[jett]

Seriously, within like 8 hours of the review going up it was all over, and half of it was "don't care." The hell is that noise.


I'm playing WW right now, about to do the third dungeon, and about 50% of my time has been spent exploring and I've done well over a dozen sidequests.

Replaying WW. OMG. So much stuff to do and explore.

:bow: WW
iss: empty barren TP

I thought you were being sarcastic with that post, lol. I haven't played WW in 8 years but what I remember about the game is a big ass ocean full of nothing. I don't remember the game having dozens of sidequests, but I'll take your word for it. Equating WW with MM like Green Scar did seems disingenuous to me though.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Seriously, within like 8 hours of the review going up it was all over, and half of it was "don't care." The hell is that noise.

Nintendo fans want to prove that they are superior to Sony fans.

I thought you were being sarcastic with that post, lol. I haven't played WW in 8 years but what I remember about the game is a big ass ocean full of nothing. I don't remember the game having dozens of sidequests. Equating WW with MM like Green Scar did is disingenuous.

There was no exploration in Windwaker. It was just a big blue ocean. It was Skyrim with water and no quests or people.

 

[guek]

Despite everything wind waker did "wrong," for some people, it just nailed that...ah, I don't know, that thing...that magic. There was a sense of freedom and exploration that's so hard to describe because it's so different from the kind of freedom we've had in other open world games. It just had something different about it that was enchanting.

But not everyone felt that sense of adventure, so it wasn't so great for everyone.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Three dungeons is more than halfway through.

It's the final stretch.

OK, fair enough. The end-game to me is... well, in this case it'd be after the Triforce hunt. Semantics.

Sailing is one of those things that only so many people were going to enjoy (and they'd really enjoy it), that Nintendo forced onto everyone. They need to stop doing that.

@Jett: WW and MM are very different, obviously, I just think their strengths and weaknesses are in similar places. Although MM's best quality is sidequests, whilst WW's is (personally) exploration. I think Majora does a much better job at world-building, to be clear, I'll be the first to say that.

 

[jett]

There are numerous side quests in the Wind Fall Island alone. That said, the idea that WW is rich while TP is barren is ridiculous.

Yes exactly, it's just nonsense.

 

[Skiesofwonder]

What exploration? There's nothing to explore. What side quests? There's nothing to do in the game.

The only thing Wind Waker has is fantastic visuals.

I'm sorry but exploring that ocean with all those different islands to find was simply amazing. Stumbling across ghost ships, different towns, fortresses, private owned islands, etc. was and still is an experience like none other. Being able to map out the world by finding that fish in each zone made it even more awesome!

Memorable Side-Quests include the camera, mail system, and Tingle's charts (among others).

 

[jett]

I'm sorry but exploring that ocean with all those different islands to find was simply amazing. Stumbling across ghost ships, different towns, fortresses, private owned islands, etc. was and still is an experience like none other. Being able to map out the world by finding that fish in each zone made it even more awesome!

Memorable Side-Quests include the camera, mail system, and Tingle's charts (among others).

What game is this, because I'm pretty sure I didn't play it.

 

[Hot Coldman]

You most certainly do not stumble upon that Ghost Ship. You don't stumble on board it anyway >:|

 

[Red]

OK, fair enough. The end-game to me is... well, in this case it'd be after the Triforce hunt. Semantics.

Sailing is one of those things that only so many people were going to enjoy (and they'd really enjoy it), that Nintendo forced onto everyone. They need to stop doing that.

I enjoyed sailing, but I didn't enjoy how long it took, or how little there was to do on your way from place to place. Boat combat was awful.

Like take the missing "dungeon 3" for instance. A trip to Outset from Windfall. It's just a ten minute trip in a straight line to talk to a fish and get rewarded. It should be exciting. But it's just nothing, like a little thin fart in an empty elevator.

I was thinking earlier of Zelda as wine. Wind Waker is a cheap moscato. It's tasty, it's fun, but you can't drink too much without getting sick. Not much substance. Twilight Princess is a barrel of pinot noir. Good, flavorful stuff, but dry, and there's so much of it you don't know how you'll ever get through it all.

 

[BY2K]

What game is this, because I'm pretty sure I didn't play it.

Well, there's one ghost ship, one fortress, 2 towns (Outset and Windfall), one private owned island.

 

[shadyspace]

Well, there's one ghost ship, one fortress, 2 towns (Outset and Windfall), one private owned island.

"2 towns" is my biggest problem with WW.

 

[Red]

Well, there's one ghost ship, one fortress, 2 towns (Outset and Windfall), one private owned island.

Outset has what, two buildings besides Link's house? Does it really count as a town?

 

[jett]

Well, there's one ghost ship, one fortress, 2 towns (Outset and Windfall), one private owned island.

Dat exploration

 

[AniHawk]

"2 towns" is my biggest problem with WW.

the gods should have drowned more people.

 

[Hot Coldman]

There's more people on Windfall than there is houses for them to live. Wut

 

[BY2K]

Outset has what, two buildings besides Link's house? Does it really count as a town?

I did hesitate between one and two towns, indeed.

 

[Magicpaint]

Well, there's one ghost ship, one fortress, 2 towns (Outset and Windfall), one private owned island.

That's about right (though Windfall is really the only proper town imo). I feel like a lot of people are remembering WW a bit too fondly. There wasn't that much to do relative to the size of the sea. The bulk of it was a lot of blue with tiny, mostly insignificant Islands here and there.

 

[shadyspace]

the gods should have drowned more people.

The opposite. Not to say I'm an opponent of more drowning.

 

[Red]

That's about right (though Windfall is really the only proper town imo). I feel like a lot of people are remembering WW a bit too fondly. There wasn't that much to do relative to the size of the sea. The bulk of it was a lot of blue with tiny, mostly insignificant Islands here and there.

I think each square had a least a tiny rock to land on. And most of them had something to do, but that "something to do" was mostly "chop down grass" or "break a box."

 

[BY2K]

There's more people on Windfall than there is houses for them to live. Wut

There's more people on Windfall than buildings on the whole overworld.

The Goddess are bitches.

 

[Hootie]

When did the 7.5 bomba drop? I hope I didn't miss another Uncharted 3 8.0 GAF meltdown

 

[Medalion]

People can't handle 7.5 Skyward Sword so let's talk about other personally dissapointing Zelda games lol

 

[Hot Coldman]

I think each square had a least a tiny rock to land on. And most of them had something to do, but that "something to do" was mostly "chop down grass" or "break a box."

Most islands had a grotto inside, where you could destroy some Moblins and get a Treasure Chart. Then you go find that treasure! It's enough for those 'you did a thing' endorphins Zelda games are basically built around releasing to rush to your head pretty regularly. It's not fancy, but it's satisfying in a simple way.

There's more people on Windfall than buildings on the whole overworld.

The Goddess are bitches.

Nah man, that's all on the islanders. Gotta slow down with the procreation.

 

[Magicpaint]

I think each square had a least a tiny rock to land on. And most of them had something to do, but that "something to do" was mostly "chop down grass" or "break a box."

Yes, it was mostly insignificant stuff, hardly any memorable islands besides those 4 or 5. At least in TP your exploration often led you to interesting caves/caverns with sometimes interesting puzzles, even though the reward was always horseshit.

 

[GamerSoul]

There's more people on Windfall than buildings on the whole overworld.

The Goddess are bitches.

If there's a Wind Waker 2, they should find the plug and undrain Hyrule or something revealing a whole new Hyrule..... There I go again wishing for shit I'll never get. Damn my beautiful visions!

 

[EmCeeGramr]

the gods should have drowned more people.

I like how OoT (well, Link's Awakening) sort of started the idea that the various deities, gods, prophets, and wise sages of the Zelda universe are all a collective bunch of jackasses who hate humanity and just go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place and end up screwing things up more than they help.

Every time I play any Zelda game now and some person who is supposed to have divine wisdom or be a god shows up, invariably I notice that they're probably the biggest dick, the Grand Prickteps of Cocktown.

Honestly, if they had to make a Zelda game that was radically different, I'd want them to make a game where it's not Link, it's just some random person who ends up getting screwed over because they didn't hit the destiny lottery and be born Link.


NAME ANY SUPPOSEDLY BENEVOLENT ZELDA CHARACTER WITH DIVINE ABILITY OR WISDOM AND I'LL TELL YOU WHY THEY CAN "S" A "D"

 

[Xdrive05]

It's obvious that 88% of all "Zelda Game A is better than Zelda game B" arguments are based on rose tinted hindsight and/or not having played both games recently enough to make an accurate assessment.